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Juniper Kid
03-03-2006, 6:06 PM
OK, what's with all these people reDROS'ing every 30 days? I think it'd be better if you guys wait it out and reDROS only when the milpitas FFL gets them back.

What is the advantage and disadvantage, if you keep on reDROS'ing?

C.G.
03-03-2006, 6:15 PM
OK, what's with all these people reDROS'ing every 30 days? I think it'd be better if you guys wait it out and reDROS only when the milpitas FFL gets them back.

What is the advantage and disadvantage, if you keep on reDROS'ing?

If you have DROSed, the lower is yours if they decide to add it to the list. If you haven't DROSed you are SOL.

Juniper Kid
03-03-2006, 6:22 PM
Do you have to pay another 15 bucks for a reDROS?

What if they will never return them? reDROS'ing every 30 days is somewhat a waste of money, let's say the DOJ won't return it for 12 months, 15x12= $180.

:eek:

s281c
03-03-2006, 6:26 PM
Do you have to pay another 15 bucks for a reDROS?

What if they will never return them? reDROS'ing every 30 days is somewhat a waste of money, let's say the DOJ won't return it for 12 months, 15x12= $180.

:eek:

$25 for re-dros...........I've already done it once, my next re-dros comes up in 2 weeks

Juniper Kid
03-03-2006, 6:27 PM
Are you going to do it every month?

S*** that's gonna cost you a lot of mOOOla....:eek:

megavolt121
03-03-2006, 6:29 PM
Do you have to pay another 15 bucks for a reDROS?

What if they will never return them? reDROS'ing every 30 days is somewhat a waste of money, let's say the DOJ won't return it for 12 months, 15x12= $180.

:eek:


You bring up a good point on the financial reasons NOT to re DROS. Knowing the pace of the gov't, 6months - 1 year isn't unreasonable. I am organizing a group buy for Superior Arms lowers. The ffl doing the transfer is in the Santa Cruz area. You will have a lower for $190 out the door. You're better off spending the money on a new receiver than re-DROSing. Best case scenario you'll end up with 2 AR lowers, one of which you can eventually sell out of state.

s281c
03-03-2006, 6:33 PM
Are you going to do it every month?

S*** that's gonna cost you a lot of mOOOla....:eek:

Well if you factor in the time to go and do the re-dros plus the gas etc. then it's a lot more then that.

But it's not about the money, more about the principal of the situation............

Juniper Kid
03-03-2006, 6:35 PM
No disrepect to Ben and the Milpitas FFL, they are cool people....

But to those of you reDROS'ing every month, I think you're better off buying another lower, you'll save money and have a peace of mind knowing you have a lower In Hand.

I hope everybody gets their lower back.

MailBoxCalGuns
03-03-2006, 6:42 PM
?I?????`| Kid]OK, what's with all these people reDROS'ing every 30 days? I think it'd be better if you guys wait it out and reDROS only when the milpitas FFL gets them back.

What is the advantage and disadvantage, if you keep on reDROS'ing?[/QUOTE]

if AW list gets updated and you don't have a current DROS in affect when your lower gets returned, your SOL! it's ATF policy. doesn't matter if in "safe keeping" with DOJ.

Juniper Kid
03-03-2006, 6:50 PM
if AW list gets updated and you don't have a current DROS in affect when your lower gets returned, your SOL! it's ATF policy. doesn't matter if in "safe keeping" with DOJ.


that sucks donkey balls...

cross posted:

OK, the confiscated lowers are considered rifles, why are they required to be in a safe?

I've visited tons of gun stores and all of them don't keep rifles in safes... they have it stacked up for display, even Big 5 doesn't keep it in a safe, they are all on display or in Big 5's backroom, I've been to their backroom where they keep the rifles... it's Not a safe.

C.G.
03-03-2006, 6:50 PM
?I?????`| Kid]OK, what's with all these people reDROS'ing every 30 days? I think it'd be better if you guys wait it out and reDROS only when the milpitas FFL gets them back.

What is the advantage and disadvantage, if you keep on reDROS'ing?

if AW list gets updated and you don't have a current DROS in affect when your lower gets returned, your SOL! it's ATF policy. doesn't matter if in "safe keeping" with DOJ.[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better myself.:rolleyes:

swhatb
03-04-2006, 12:39 AM
that sucks donkey balls...

cross posted:

OK, the confiscated lowers are considered rifles, why are they required to be in a safe?

I've visited tons of gun stores and all of them don't keep rifles in safes... they have it stacked up for display, even Big 5 doesn't keep it in a safe, they are all on display or in Big 5's backroom, I've been to their backroom where they keep the rifles... it's Not a safe.

It's different because these lowers are considered to be "series" weapons, even though not yet stated in the AW list by make and model no., and that based upon there design features to make them usable, SB23 characterics would be violated--long story, short version.

swhatb
03-04-2006, 1:38 AM
OK, what's with all these people reDROS'ing every 30 days? I think it'd be better if you guys wait it out and reDROS only when the milpitas FFL gets them back.

What is the advantage and disadvantage, if you keep on reDROS'ing?
Everyone- When the AW list gets updated those lowers are considered banned. You CANNOT DROS (read: reDROS) something that is "illegal" (read: BANNED), nor take possession of DROS item(s) if past the 30-day period without doing a new DROS--ATFs policy--and Kalifornia's 10-day waiting period. Period. And according to ATFs 4473 form, as of my understanding, the transaction hasn't been completed until you signed the form taking possession of your DROS item(s). No matter how you look at this, those of "us" which have lowers in "safe keeping" are in a "Catch 22."

My question is if the AW list gets updated and the lower doesn't get returned to the FFL to complete the "transaction" during the ATF 30-day policy, then what? Am I fu----! I cannot DROS something that's banned. I see a court case. (And now I'm going to get some ZzZzZz since it 2:30 in the morning on Saturday. Spending WAY to much time these days on the calguns site. It's been interesting...)

artherd
03-04-2006, 11:54 AM
You sure seem to feel strongly about this, why is that? It's a personal choice, but I still recommend that if you care about your lower at this time, re-drosing is a good idea.


DOJ has told some of us OVER THE PHONE WHERE THEY CAN LIE, that we don't even have to re-dros.

However, they REFUSE TO PUT IT IN WRITING!

Now can you see what we're dealing with here? I'd rather fight them and win at any cost. I've already spent $thousands on an attorney just to fight for my personal 2 lowers that are in the siezed mix. I'm f-ing crazy like that, and the DOJ is counting on us to fold.

No disrepect to Ben and the Milpitas FFL, they are cool people....
But to those of you reDROS'ing every month, I think you're better off buying another lower, you'll save money and have a peace of mind knowing you have a lower In Hand.
I hope everybody gets their lower back.

If you only have 1 lower coming, and it's been siezed, I've been advising people for some time now to get another, from ANYWHERE.

Worst case you end up with 2. Well, I bought about 20 for my own personal use (and am not selling any ever.) So I guess it's the principle involved :)

artherd
03-04-2006, 11:55 AM
If you have DROSed, the lower is yours if they decide to add it to the list. If you haven't DROSed you are SOL.
...maybe. DOJ's told callers something else over the phone but that's worth what it's printerd on.

However they REFUSE TO PUT IN WIRTING wether re-drosing is required!

That alone tells me they want to f--- with us.

artherd
03-04-2006, 11:57 AM
It's different because these lowers are considered to be "series" weapons, even though not yet stated in the AW list by make and model no., and that based upon there design features to make them usable, SB23 characterics would be violated--long story, short version.

No this is not true at all. The recievers are considered "longguns" and are right now regulated the same as a single shot .22.

However, the entire FACUILITY must be secure (ie metal doors of certified thickness, DOJ approved bars on windows, breakproof glass, DOJ inspected alarm, handguns not visible from outside, lighting and sprinklers, etc.) OR you must have a DOJ certified & inspected safe.

Shoot-it
03-04-2006, 10:11 PM
Let me say one thing I am an outsider looking in.one bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush........!!

rodgster
03-05-2006, 12:18 AM
I've bought 1 ar type lower, from Milpitas, fortunately for me not seized. I'm not a big fan of the style, and compared to a free state the price is high.... But I'd rather have one than not have one. And considering that a while back you couldn't have one at any price, I just had to buy. I seriously thought of buying 10.

Now, if mine had been seized, I'd buy another (Milpitas on same DROS maybe) and plan on getting the other one back or suing the DOJ to recover costs. Win or lose, it's a matter of principles.

RMB, Ben & all the people who made Milpitas (& elsewhere) possible have my eternal gratitude.

Thank you!

I pledge to drop off a legal fund donation on Tuesday.



Any complainers or bashers can STFU!

artherd
03-05-2006, 1:07 AM
Thanks for the outpouring of support everyone. It seems approximately 219 of the lowers were siezed by DOJ, hopefully they are keeping warm, and they WILL return them, it is just a question of time and how hard do we have to pressure them before they comply with the law?

PS: we managed to bring in over ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED lowers total :D :D :D

swhatb
03-07-2006, 11:17 AM
Thanks for the outpouring of support everyone. It seems approximately 219 of the lowers were siezed by DOJ, hopefully they are keeping warm, and they WILL return them, it is just a question of time and how hard do we have to pressure them before they comply with the law?

PS: we managed to bring in over ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED lowers total :D :D :D
i know will win the case. just give it time. what erks me is that we have to fight them with our money and they use our money (our tax dollars) to fight us back!:mad:

Fjold
03-07-2006, 12:04 PM
Maybe I'm missing something and someone can explain it to me.

The seller knows the serial numbers of the lowers that were seized and which one belongs to which buyer. Every buyer has seen and probably handled their receiver already, so .......

Why can't the seller just complete the sale, fill out the Federal 4473 and tell the buyers to pick up the receiver from the DOJ?

phish
03-07-2006, 12:19 PM
I refuse to sign anything saying I took posession of my property when in fact, I did not.

I can just imagine this scenario: "Heya there Iggy, I signed the 4473 down in Milpitas, can I have my receiver???"

*crickets chirping*

Fjold
03-07-2006, 12:49 PM
I refuse to sign anything saying I took posession of my property when in fact, I did not.

I can just imagine this scenario: "Heya there Iggy, I signed the 4473 down in Milpitas, can I have my receiver???"

*crickets chirping*



I wasn't worried about picking it up, more on proving ownership. When the new list comes out I would have the DROS and a copy of my 4473 to prove that I already owned the receiver before any transfer restriction was enacted.

Mike Searson
03-07-2006, 3:11 PM
ATF has nothing to do with your state's illegal DROS system.

How is it BATF policy?

Creeping Incrementalism
03-07-2006, 8:51 PM
Thanks for the outpouring of support everyone. It seems approximately 219 of the lowers were siezed by DOJ, hopefully they are keeping warm, and they WILL return them, it is just a question of time and how hard do we have to pressure them before they comply with the law?

Ben, was it 219 lowers, or 219 people who DROSed 500 lowers?

Also, I was just wondering, how do you pronounce Chuck Michel's last name?