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santacruzstefan
05-01-2010, 7:56 PM
This might seem like an odd question, but would a gun loaded with blanks be considered a loaded weapon?

CSACANNONEER
05-01-2010, 8:06 PM
Yep! Also, keep in mind that blanks can and have killed people.

santacruzstefan
05-01-2010, 8:11 PM
How? By having something lodged in the barrel?

Merc1138
05-01-2010, 8:13 PM
How? By having something lodged in the barrel?

Possibly, also depends on how the blank is assembled and whether any wadding can come out.

blanks = ammunition.

CSACANNONEER
05-01-2010, 8:15 PM
No wadding needed. Blanks can kill by the force of the blast! Do not under estimate blanks! When we fire blanks at reenactments, we always have a safty zone. A light load, cannon blank will blow up a watermelon at +30 feet! A modern pistol blank will kill at point blank and injure at 10-15 feet. Blanks are not toys!

2009_gunner
05-01-2010, 8:24 PM
Here's one incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum#Death

Here's Brandon Lee's - something was lodged in the barrel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#Death

I've also read that blank's have been used for executions - just by placing the barrel at the temple.

69Mach1
05-01-2010, 8:26 PM
Blanks have killed two actors. One, when the muzzle was placed right up against his temple, was killed by the force of the muzzle blast and pressure. It forced a piece of skull into his brain.

The second was actor (my favorite) Brandon Lee, son of Bruce Lee. He died when an inexperienced gun handler lodged a bullet in the barrel when test firing dummy rounds. When the scene was shot, the pressure from the blank forced the lodged bullet into his chest.

haveyourmile
05-01-2010, 8:26 PM
What about snap caps in a gun? Would that be considered "loaded"?

69Mach1
05-01-2010, 8:34 PM
What about snap caps in a gun? Would that be considered "loaded"?

Nope.

CSACANNONEER
05-01-2010, 8:40 PM
What about snap caps in a gun? Would that be considered "loaded"?

Niether would "dummy rounds" but, it could cost you a lot in court fees. I'd suggest ONLY using commercial snap caps if there is any question.

JacobSmith
05-01-2010, 8:41 PM
If you're worried about the lethality from the blast, try using one of those blank firing attachments that block and redirect particles and gases to the sides.

Colt-45
05-01-2010, 9:38 PM
I'm no cowboy but is shooting blanks up to the air a potential danger?

Military ceremonies as an example.

69Mach1
05-01-2010, 9:40 PM
I'm no cowboy but is shooting blanks up to the air a potential danger?

Military ceremonies as an example.

None that I can think of. Then there's the whole discharging a firearm within city limits thing.

Colt-45
05-01-2010, 9:42 PM
None that I can think of. Then there's the whole discharging a firearm within city limits thing.

Yes of course, but to those that live out in the country side or outside city limits.....:43:

santacruzstefan
05-02-2010, 2:47 AM
Hmm, now I'm not so sure this is correct. I found this from an older post... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=103660


12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

[Since this post concentrates on loaded, other parts of 12031 are omitted, including the definitions of other terms in (a)(1).]

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm;

except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

So it sounds like it needs to have an actual projectile to be considered loaded?

Scarecrow Repair
05-02-2010, 2:41 PM
How? By having something lodged in the barrel?

One of the things I was taught to do with black powder muzzle loaders is fire the gun first with just a cap, no powder or ball. This cap is the equivalent of a primer. You aim at a leaf or grass and fire -- if the leaf or grass moves, the barrel is clear.

Or consider that Aquila .22LR ammo which has no powder, just primer, yet they still claim (IIRC) 400 fps muzzle velocity.

That's a heck of a lot of pressure from just a primer.

N6ATF
05-02-2010, 3:19 PM
What about snap caps in a gun? Would that be considered "loaded"?

If this were a UOC question, I would wonder if snap caps would make the dummy mag drop out of the gun appreciably faster and with less effort than an empty mag...

Decoligny
05-02-2010, 3:25 PM
How? By having something lodged in the barrel?

Some idiot I read about put a gun loaded with blanks up against his head and pulled the trigger, thinking it would just make noise. The force of the powder going off blew a hole in his head and killed him instantly.

Once in the Air Force during an excercise, another brilliant "rocket scientist" put his hand up about 3 feet in front of a M-60 firing blanks. The force of the blank going off tore open his palm and the gasses expelled from the end of the barrel actually entered the tissue and caused his arm to swell up. He survived, but lost most of the use of his hand.

Group B
05-04-2010, 11:46 PM
Some idiot I read about put a gun loaded with blanks up against his head and pulled the trigger, thinking it would just make noise. The force of the powder going off blew a hole in his head and killed him instantly.

Once in the Air Force during an excercise, another brilliant "rocket scientist" put his hand up about 3 feet in front of a M-60 firing blanks. The force of the blank going off tore open his palm and the gasses expelled from the end of the barrel actually entered the tissue and caused his arm to swell up. He survived, but lost most of the use of his hand.

In Movies, blank firing weapons aren't used for closer shots. In closer proximity, actors switch to what are called "flashpaper guns", or the muzzle blast/flash is just added in later via post production.

Havoc70
05-05-2010, 5:58 AM
If this were a UOC question, I would wonder if snap caps would make the dummy mag drop out of the gun appreciably faster and with less effort than an empty mag...

Yes, they do. That's why when I UOC I have 5 snap caps in the magazine that's in the gun. It gives gravity an appreciable assist to eject the magazine.

I also had my Sig on display at the gun show with snap caps loaded in the magazine, magazine in the pistol and not a word was said.

Though Bill Wiese had a bit of a scare when he first saw them, as they looked sort of like brass at the angle of light :).

timdps
05-05-2010, 9:22 AM
blanks = ammunition.

Except for the purposes of AB962. For this bill blanks are not considered ammunition.