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gasman762
05-01-2010, 3:27 PM
First time post...
After many years, I am finally moving out of UCLA student housing. As a resident in UC housing, I have been unable to exercise my 2A rights for far too long.
My understanding has been that although we are not physically on UCLA main campus, I am still technically living on UCLA campus property. (ie we are under the jurisdiction of UC -police department.)
Now that I am finally going to move to an apartment in L.A. county... I have come across this in my lease agrement
I was specifically wondering about section 13.6.
As I am not an attorney I do not really understand what they mean by this.
Do they mean no guns period. Or do they mean "displaying" or brandishing a firearm is a no-no.
Also, is it legal for an apartment complex to arbitrarily void one's 2A right??
Thank you very much for your input.

13. PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
13.1 In General. You will not engage in, and you will not permit Occupants or Guests to
engage in, the following activities in the Apartment Community: (1) loud or obnoxious conduct; (2)
disturbing or threatening the rights, comfort, health, safety, or convenience of others or our employees,
agents or vendors; (3) engaging in or threatening violence; (4) marking or defacing any building, structure
or any other property; (5) discharging a firearm; (6) displaying or possessing a gun, knife or other item,
which is intended to be used as a weapon; (7) soliciting business or contributions; (8) storing anything
that is flammable; (9) tampering with utilities or any sub-meter or other measuring device or system for
utilities; (10) possessing or handling hazardous materials; (11) using candles or lamps, which create or
contain a flame; (12) disrupting our business operations; and (13) engaging in any other conduct
prohibited by the Lease.
13.2 Conduct of Occupants and Guests

Harrison_Bergeron
05-01-2010, 3:33 PM
It has to mean you can't have guns in common/community areas. It says that you cannot store flammable things either. I don't think it is possible to live in today's society without having something that is flammable in your home.

The possession part could be cumbersome as far as carrying guns to your car, though.

Personally, I would stay away from the place.

Big Jake
05-01-2010, 3:34 PM
It says "intended to be used as a weapon". Your guns are strictly for target shooting and you never intend to use them as a weapon. Problem solved! :rolleyes:

CSACANNONEER
05-01-2010, 3:35 PM
I don't see a problem with having anything which YOU do not intend to use as a weapon. I'm sure you own all your firearms for collecting purposes or sporting purposes. Remember that there are shooting sports in both the summer and winter Olympics and there are even college scolarships given to those who excel in different shooting sports. Then again, I am not an attorney and, I am not giving you legal advise, just my opinion.

Bill Carson
05-01-2010, 11:40 PM
First time post...
After many years, I am finally moving out of UCLA student housing. As a resident in UC housing, I have been unable to exercise my 2A rights for far too long.
My understanding has been that although we are not physically on UCLA main campus, I am still technically living on UCLA campus property. (ie we are under the jurisdiction of UC -police department.)
Now that I am finally going to move to an apartment in L.A. county... I have come across this in my lease agrement
I was specifically wondering about section 13.6.
As I am not an attorney I do not really understand what they mean by this.
Do they mean no guns period. Or do they mean "displaying" or brandishing a firearm is a no-no.
Also, is it legal for an apartment complex to arbitrarily void one's 2A right??
Thank you very much for your input.

13. PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
13.1 In General. You will not engage in, and you will not permit Occupants or Guests to
engage in, the following activities in the Apartment Community: (1) loud or obnoxious conduct; (2)
disturbing or threatening the rights, comfort, health, safety, or convenience of others or our employees,
agents or vendors; (3) engaging in or threatening violence; (4) marking or defacing any building, structure
or any other property; (5) discharging a firearm; (6) displaying or possessing a gun, knife or other item,
which is intended to be used as a weapon; (7) soliciting business or contributions; (8) storing anything
that is flammable; (9) tampering with utilities or any sub-meter or other measuring device or system for
utilities; (10) possessing or handling hazardous materials; (11) using candles or lamps, which create or
contain a flame; (12) disrupting our business operations; and (13) engaging in any other conduct
prohibited by the Lease.
13.2 Conduct of Occupants and Guests

Apartment Community are the keywords. They are referring to common areas not the specific apartment.

Apocalypsenerd
05-02-2010, 1:47 AM
It is not arbitrarily voiding your 2A rights. You are signing a contract in which you agree to not exercise them. It's a legal contract between two private parties and can be enforced.

Considering how much property law favors the tenants in CA, however, I am skeptical that any landlord would do anything for mere possession within the bounds of your own living area. If you were to run around the apartments brandishing it, though, they can show the contract as part of their CYA file.

This is not legal advice, but I'm pretty sure you can temporarily or partially sign away your constitutional rights as part of a contract. A good example of this are non-disclosure agreements or NDA's between employees and the companies they work or worked for.

tube_ee
05-02-2010, 6:56 AM
You are signing a contract in which you agree to not exercise them. It's a legal contract between two private parties and can be enforced.


This may or may not be true, and only a real estate attorney will know for sure. Landlords put all kinds of stuff they're not actually allowed to do into rental agreements. Sometimes it's because they know very few renters actually know the law, sometimes they're using boilerplate agreements they got off the internet, sometimes they write their own, (in which case, they're idiots.)

This particular issue comes up all the time on gun boards, and the only legitimate answer is "it depends". There's often an assumption that you can put whatever you want into a contract, and if both parties sign, it's enforceable. That's not even close to being true, and the details of contract law have bought more BMWs and McMansions than anything else in law, including personal injury and product liability.

Consult a California-licensed real estate attorney. A document review is only a couple hundred bucks.

Or just sign the thing and do what you want to.

--Shannon

littlejake
05-02-2010, 7:59 AM
I agree that landlords try to put things into rental agreements that carry no weight even though it is a signed contract. If a landlord put in that their tenant could not vote -- it would clearly be a worthless attempt to impose a restriction. Certain rights cannot be abridged by contract.

As for a restriction on guns, it's sort of questionable. The purpose of the entire paragraph is to give reasons that the landlord can declare you in breach and evict you.

My position would be to never sign an agreement with a clause that restricts gun ownership -- further, I feel it's not the landlord's business if you have firearms.

You could ask that that phrase be stricken and initialed -- but why argue with morons.

I would just pass on this rental and find another.

loather
05-02-2010, 9:11 AM
I'm pretty sure you can temporarily or partially sign away your constitutional rights as part of a contract. A good example of this are non-disclosure agreements or NDA's between employees and the companies they work or worked for.

That depends. Most NDAs, as written, are unenforceable in California. The same goes (especially so) for the works of prior art declarations they also make you sign.

We'd all do well to understand California's employment codes and housing codes. As bad as the gun rights situation is here, renter's rights, homeowner's rights, and employee rights are actually some of the best in the nation.

bwiese
05-02-2010, 9:18 AM
I would not possess a firearm inside a UC-owned apt.

I dimly recall quite a bit of drama occurring up here in some Berkeley UC-run off-campus housing. The apt blocks were just an extension of campus.

Do not over-parse the term "Apartment community" - they're just generally referring to the aparment itself and its surrounding property.

gasman762
05-02-2010, 2:46 PM
Thank you all for your insight.
It has been very helpful.
Thank you!

Window_Seat
05-02-2010, 2:58 PM
It says "intended to be used as a weapon". Your guns are strictly for target shooting and you never intend to use them as a weapon. Problem solved! :rolleyes:

^^^this +1, and go to the range when you get the chance.:cool:

Erik.

Theseus
05-03-2010, 3:32 PM
I need to brush up on it, but could 626.9 still apply here since it could be University property?

robcoe
05-03-2010, 3:40 PM
First time post...
After many years, I am finally moving out of UCLA student housing. As a resident in UC housing, I have been unable to exercise my 2A rights for far too long.
My understanding has been that although we are not physically on UCLA main campus, I am still technically living on UCLA campus property. (ie we are under the jurisdiction of UC -police department.)
Now that I am finally going to move to an apartment in L.A. county... I have come across this in my lease agrement
I was specifically wondering about section 13.6.
As I am not an attorney I do not really understand what they mean by this.
Do they mean no guns period. Or do they mean "displaying" or brandishing a firearm is a no-no.
Also, is it legal for an apartment complex to arbitrarily void one's 2A right??
Thank you very much for your input.

13. PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
13.1 In General. You will not engage in, and you will not permit Occupants or Guests to
engage in, the following activities in the Apartment Community: (1) loud or obnoxious conduct; (2)
disturbing or threatening the rights, comfort, health, safety, or convenience of others or our employees,
agents or vendors; (3) engaging in or threatening violence; (4) marking or defacing any building, structure
or any other property; (5) discharging a firearm; (6) displaying or possessing a gun, knife or other item,
which is intended to be used as a weapon; (7) soliciting business or contributions; (8) storing anything
that is flammable; (9) tampering with utilities or any sub-meter or other measuring device or system for
utilities; (10) possessing or handling hazardous materials; (11) using candles or lamps, which create or
contain a flame; (12) disrupting our business operations; and (13) engaging in any other conduct
prohibited by the Lease.
13.2 Conduct of Occupants and Guests

My advice. Find another apartment.

unusedusername
05-03-2010, 4:06 PM
My advice. Find another apartment.

+1 It's way easier to find someplace else to live then to deal with this stuff in court.

kf6tac
05-03-2010, 4:12 PM
I would not possess a firearm inside a UC-owned apt.

I dimly recall quite a bit of drama occurring up here in some Berkeley UC-run off-campus housing. The apt blocks were just an extension of campus.

Do not over-parse the term "Apartment community" - they're just generally referring to the aparment itself and its surrounding property.

I believe the OP is saying that he's currently moving out of UC-owned apartments and found the clause in question in the lease agreement for his new (non-UC owned) apartment.

Billy Jack
05-03-2010, 6:28 PM
Wrong thread

Rob454
05-03-2010, 6:46 PM
More of a you cant have a gun on you in the pool/common area not you cant have a gun in your apartment

Shotgun Man
05-03-2010, 6:51 PM
I believe the OP is saying that he's currently moving out of UC-owned apartments and found the clause in question in the lease agreement for his new (non-UC owned) apartment.

Yeah, I agree.

It appears the apartment community would encompass the entirety of the property. I would strike out the language pertaining to weapons before signing.

It is common for a tenant to cross out objectionable terms on a lease. It usually is not a deal-breaker on such piddling matters. Worst case scenario, you find another abode.

gasman762
05-04-2010, 6:30 AM
Yes, I currently reside in UCLA housing. As a direct result of reviewing threads in this forum, I realized that firearm possession in UC housing is a no-no. Since then, I have lived for several years without my guns. Now that I have finished my training at UCLA, it is time for me to move out and restore my rights!
Does anyone know if Culver City is a better place to live as far as 2A
rights?
Thank you again for your help!

snobord99
05-04-2010, 6:51 AM
I agree that landlords try to put things into rental agreements that carry no weight even though it is a signed contract. If a landlord put in that their tenant could not vote -- it would clearly be a worthless attempt to impose a restriction. Certain rights cannot be abridged by contract.

You can't sign away your right to vote, but a landlord could certainly say that you can't hold a 100 person protest in your apartment. I'm pretty sure a no-gun clause would be upheld.

As far as what you should do, just ask the landlord what their intent is with that clause. Are they restricting gun ownership in general or just you carrying a gun with you while walking around common areas or... This is a simple contract, what's going to control is the parties' intent.

advocatusdiaboli
05-04-2010, 1:32 PM
I am with bwiese on this. I would not do it for the following reason. If there is an emergency of some kind involving public safety (fire, bomb scare (never have those in student housing eh?), robbery, terrorist threat, earthquake evacuation, etc.) and public safety searches apartments as they can and find your firearms you are in deep doo-doo. Not worth it. Either find a place to store them or move away.