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View Full Version : Tales of the Legal Lower: An Inside Look at Lower Sales.


tenpercentfirearms
03-02-2006, 11:07 PM
I was just thinking about how many interesting stories I have since I started selling lowers in December. Lets start at the beginning.

First, I should have never agreed to do this. Thank you Bill Wiese for convincing me that I needed to sell these stripped lower receivers. It has caused me many sleepless nights, about a 10 pound weight loss from stressing, and ran up thousands of miles on my new car. I guess I shouldn't complain about the fact that it helped put my company on the map and got a brand new gun shop out of the red in less than a month.

I received my final sets of permits and sold my first gun in mid-November. I was a brand new gun shop, brand new. My DROS bill for November was $50, that is two DROS transactions. I was running a Kimber group buy so I could become a master dealer with them and I ran into a thread on calguns.net about this legal lower business. Here is the thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=179386). After conferring with everyone and checking it out I decide I would do that. I start to set it up and get in touch with some upper suppliers. Stag wonít ship direct, but a calguns.net member sets me up with an FFL out of state to ship in the Stags as a middle man and I actually get Clint McKee from Fulton to agree to sell to me.

I decide to do this thing. I started lower sales on Wednesday December 7th, 2005 at about 9 PM by sending out mass e-mail from a list of names I had gathered. I officially posted the news on calguns.net on Friday the 9th at 1:30 AM. Here is that thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=25347). By the time I left for the San Jose Show Saturday morning on the 10th at 0400 in the morning, I had sold some 115 lowers or so by e-mail, phone, and fax.

I get to the San Jose gun show and everyone is wondering who the idiot is trying to get himself thrown in jail for selling stripped .223 legal lowers. One of my personal favorite stories is I was trying to find a transfer dealer who could make a decent buck if they agreed to take these in from all of the guys I was going to sell lowers to. Credit goes to Roger's Relics for stepping forward, what a great couple. I talked to another local gun shop who will go unnamed. He was rather combative about the whole idea and pretty much ran me off and was rather rude. He wanted to know what I was selling the guns for and why would he want to do that and yada, yada, yada. No big deal, I just went back over to my little table. More on this guy later.

So the show opens and the guys start coming over to my table. Within 15 minutes, I have a line of 20 guys waiting to start their DROS. 15 minutes later the show promoters inform me they have to move my table because my neighbors are complaining that my line is blocking their tables. It was true! I had a huge line waiting. So they picked up my table and moved me to the side of the show where my line could stretch out where there were no tables. The whole time all I could do was have a big smile on my face because I knew the dealer who was so rude earlier had to be watching this huge line at my table.

Then again, Bill Wiese showed up. This guy looks nice and friendly, but be forewarned, as smart as he is, he caused more stress in my life than I cared to have in those early days. He starts talking about how the list is probably going to come out in a week or so and how if they aren't DROSed how it will be too late, and on and on and on. Suddenly my happy mood sinks. I don't want to order 200-300 lower receivers and have them get declared before I get them all DROSed and have to turn around and sell them out of state. I worked the rest of the day non-stop doing DROS paperwork and running guys through the line. The whole time feeling very down at possibly losing thousands of dollars on this hair brained scheme.

My other favorite story is of the guy who just happened to go to the show and came by my booth. He starts looking at the signs and what is going on and then he starts to grab his hair and say, "Oh my God, is this for real???" He stood there for 20 minutes grabbing his hair and putting his hands on his head and saying, "Oh my God. What am I going to do." He was wondering how many lowers he could get and not get in trouble with the wife. All the time he can't think straight because he had no idea that what we were doing was legal a mere hour before. He bought two or three.

The next day I came back to the show and went about my business. I actually got 9 hours of sleep that night and that was a little more than the 15 hours I managed in three days. The unnamed gun shop owner walked by and seemed interested in what I was doing now, but he knew he already burned that bridge. That was some nice satisfaction. I knew one day he would be selling lowers after riding my back at the first show and I was right. Oh well, there is plenty to go around.

Everything seemed to be running fine until a man in a vest walked up. Enter Mr. Chinn, DOJ Field Agent Supervisor. This began my torrid relationship with Mr. Chinn. He gave me his card and said I needed to give him a call. I asked what it as in regards to and he said to just call him. I guess as we were talking a long haired man had been standing behind our table by the door gawking at what I was up to. He was checking the bottom of my FAB-10 floor model to see if it has the magazine or not. After Mr. Chinn wouldn't offer anymore info, he goes over shakes the long haired man's hand and they get into a deep discussion off to the side for a good 30 minutes. Two guys who were getting ready to buy lowers get spooked and decide not to and everyone is in a tense mood because the DOJ is there and he is having an intense conversation with this long haired man.

The good news is Mr. Chinn came back by after finishing talking with the long haired man and I managed to have an actual lull in business. I called him over and tried to engage in a conversation with him again. He asked what kind of lowers I as bringing in. (there was a sign on the wall saying what I was selling). Many people can attest to this great moment in time. He asked if I was brining in Fultons and I said yes. He asked how many, I told him about 150. He said in an excited tone, "I am putting them on the list!!!" Then in another great lower moment a calguns.net board member that shall go unnamed starts taunting Mr. Chinn, "Thank you very much! We appreciate that, thanks for giving me a real AR15!" About 5 guys just about starting beating the crap out of this taunter instantly and he quickly shut up.

I managed to get more good information out of Mr. Chinn in 5 minutes than I had gotten out of Bill Wiese the whole day before. No offense to Bill, his knowledge of the law and the way things might work was great, but his not knowing when the list was coming was horrible as far as I was concerned. When I asked Mr. Chinn how long I had and he said two weeks; that made my whole weekend. I might not get stuck with $20 thousand of lowers after all. I found out that there would be registration period and as long as DROS starts everything should be fine. He eventually went on to his duties of inspection and I sold a few more lowers.

By the end of the San Jose Show I was feeling pretty good. I hadn't been arrested, it didn't look like I was going to lose all of my money, and I was making out like a bandit. I had met probably 60 great people and I was enjoying this gun business. I was selling Stags for $140 for one, $135 for 2-4, and $125 for 5+! (don't you wish you could see those prices again). The Sun Devils were $10-20 bucks more and the Fultons were like $5 more. I had visions of selling hundreds more as I started the long trek back to Taft. Little did I know that the day Monday December 12, 2005 would forever be a day of infamy in my life forever.

To be continuedÖ

PanzerAce
03-02-2006, 11:17 PM
Sticky!!!!!!!

FreedomIsNotFree
03-02-2006, 11:19 PM
To Be Continued....c'mon.....you know you still have insomnia over this.....what else are you going to do all night....continue.

phish
03-02-2006, 11:19 PM
woa, back up: 5 guys just about started beating the crap out of this guy?

JBTs?

:confused:

SkyStorm82
03-02-2006, 11:23 PM
HAHA you'll be telling this to the grand kids one day.

Great story...I was laying in my bed last night unable to sleep and wondering how this whole thing went down.

blacklisted
03-02-2006, 11:29 PM
woa, back up: 5 guys just about started beating the crap out of this guy?

JBTs?

:confused:

No. I know who it was that did this, let's just say he was a bit overeager, lol. We were all very excited about this. :D

It certainly did not warrant a beating.

You know who you are!

accordingtoome
03-03-2006, 1:10 AM
i hope that TPF can end this story with
.....and we all got to shoot happily ever after. THE END:D

tenpercentfirearms
03-03-2006, 5:21 AM
This story is far from over. It will be a project of mine for a couple more weeks. And to think I could be finishing my thesis. Also if you were part of this story as it goes along, please feel free to add your perspective. I have really enjoyed going back as I type it and reading our old threads. I can't believe what has happened in almost three months now.

And the beating wasn't from JBTs. It was from our own people. There is a time and place for everything, mocking him at that time and place wasn't helping us any. It is funny now. Plus that part isn't really settled yet so I don't know who has the last laugh yet.

joel1316
03-03-2006, 6:39 AM
Great Story.... Will always be a part of Calguns and Lowers history!
Everyone will remember TPA for years to come!

JWC6
03-03-2006, 7:29 AM
Heh, what happened on 12 Dec 2005?

Yes, I also hold bwiese accountable for many sleepless nights and credit card bills! :D

EBWhite
03-03-2006, 8:23 AM
December 8, 2005
Yesterday, December 7, 2004 - a date which will live in infamy - liberals of the Peoples Republic of California were suddenly and deliberately attacked by AR style lower receivers pouring across state lines.

The Gun Owners of California were at peace with this state and, at the solicitation of Gun Grabbers, was still in conversation with its Government.

It will be recorded that the Calguns forum makes it obvious that the shipment of lowers was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time the DOJ has deliberately sought to deceive the gun owners by false statements and expressions of hope for continued gun bans.

The shipment of lowers yesterday in Kern County has caused severe damage to gun grabbers and the DOJ. Very many American lives have been saved. In addition American have reported they are now able to purchase products the rest of the country can buy at a moments notice.

The Gun owners and dealers have, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the People's Republic of California. The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The Gun Owners of California have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our state.

As a Calguns senior member, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense.

Always we will remember the character of the onslaught against us. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this gunban, the gun owners in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.



Now where did I get that from? :D

mrhappym1a
03-03-2006, 9:58 AM
Tagged for the continuing saga.

xenophobe
03-03-2006, 11:35 AM
December 8, 2005
Yesterday, December 7, 2004 - a date which will live in infamy - liberals of the Peoples Republic of California were suddenly and deliberately attacked by AR style lower receivers pouring across state lines.

Now where did I get that from? :D

Anniversary of Pearl Harbor. I'm speechless.

Good Job!

phish
03-03-2006, 12:28 PM
Anniversary of Pearl Harbor. I'm speechless.

Good Job!

somebody has to say that line through a filter that duplicates a radio from the 1930s. some clicks and pops thrown in would make it even cooler!

anyone have an app that does this?

TT2
03-13-2006, 6:39 PM
Looking forward to the next chapter. You started a great thread, I think you could probably do a movie someday about the 2005/2006 223 lower flood gates that were left open. It will be real interesting to see how it really turns out. Thanks Tony :D

Kevlarman
03-13-2006, 7:11 PM
somebody has to say that line through a filter that duplicates a radio from the 1930s. some clicks and pops thrown in would make it even cooler!

Ok, here's my take.
:D

tenpercentfirearms
03-13-2006, 8:24 PM
I am short on time. This story might take a while. I prefer to keep selling you guys parts and uppers than have time to finish it though! :D Being a public school teacher I do get the summers off.

Renron
03-13-2006, 8:26 PM
Kev.
Good job man! Voice and tone inflections too!

Mid January I accidently stumbled across this website, I was just crusin' the net and I don't even remember what I was looking for....:confused: . I read everything I could find here and located a phone # to call the next day. Made an appointment to DROS and cried when I found out my CA drivers license had expired!!! I thought the DOJ would kill my fun before it even started. The DMV got my new license to me in exactly 1 week! They are never that fast:rolleyes: . I DROSed that week and picked up my Lauer 10 days later. I told my sons about this and they each now own a Lauer:D . One of my sons friends is a CHP officer and expert marksman, he bought 2, his roommate bought 2. He is sharing our little secret with his coworkers ;) The CHPs are gun lovers and remember how Kalifornia used to be spelled. Most are very nice people just doing their jobs.
I'm thinkin' about buying another, just cause I can.
I've bought parts from 10% and he is a great guy! Buy somthin'
Ron

snobordr
03-13-2006, 9:28 PM
Wait a minute, who the hell got Mr. Peabody and the Wayback Machine out?


This thread is way older than 3.3.06


Oh crap, the list must have been updated and this is a glitch in the Matrix.

azndmd
03-13-2006, 11:20 PM
I am short on time. This story might take a while. I prefer to keep selling you guys parts and uppers than have time to finish it though! :D Being a public school teacher I do get the summers off.

Summer is so far away!:(
:D But wait...isn't spring break just around the corner?:rolleyes:
Please Mr. TPF...don't make us wait for the next installment.

tenpercentfirearms
03-14-2006, 5:36 AM
Good point, Spring Break is coming.

KenV
03-14-2006, 7:10 AM
Man, it seems like it was a lot longer ago. So much has happened before we hit the holding pattern in which we live now ;)

After everything settles one thing will remain: TPF. Nobody who has dealt with Wes will forget the guy. He put forth an incredible effort. This is about rights, not just fun guns. Wes helped us out on both counts. Thanks again Wes.

K

snobordr
03-14-2006, 8:43 AM
Wes is da man, I remember seeing this unfold on this forum as it started and wondered what he is driving.

Ya know, to tow the rig that carries those brass balls of his.

Wes, you will have an order coming in from myself and those who I ordered lowers with when I can drum up the cash.....brd has me bad.

shopkeep
03-14-2006, 1:25 PM
Most FFLs I've spoken to have told me that the only reason they're selling the off-list lowers was because Iggy didn't arrest Wes in San Jose. Wes stuck his neck out and proved that this was a lawful act.

Fjold
03-14-2006, 2:01 PM
somebody has to say that line through a filter that duplicates a radio from the 1930s. some clicks and pops thrown in would make it even cooler!

anyone have an app that does this?

That was from 1941, not from the 1930's.

phish
03-14-2006, 2:57 PM
That was from 1941, not from the 1930's.

gotta take into acount that more radios from the 30s were in circulation at that time

;)

crs1
03-14-2006, 3:56 PM
10%

People like you are the backbone of the real America...Hard work and sleepless nights plague any small business owner. Kudos for having the guts to stick it out and make it work (and esp. with the AR)! If it were easy, everyone would do it. You could have opened a "conforming" gun store with fish hooks and 30-30's, but you did it the hard way!

Thanks, and remember that people always try to bring down those that are on top of things, and if there isn't anyone gunning for you (excuse the pun), then what you are doing isn't worth it.

So thanks to you Mr. Off List Lower Gun Store Opener Accessory Guy (they should make that the next Bud Light commercial):D

vtecteg4u
03-14-2006, 4:15 PM
So thanks to you Mr. Off List Lower Gun Store Opener Accessory Guy (they should make that the next Bud Light commercial):D


"This one is to those who didn't care about DOJ's absurd scare tactics. Thanks to you Mr. Off List Lower Gun Store Opener Accessory Guy"

:) We should get ahold of Budwiser

TacFan
03-14-2006, 4:40 PM
Crazy Wes didn't even stop me from DROSing three lowers. You should have stopped me and said "Are you CRAZY ??? " :D

Oh well, I guess I'll be broke after I build them all up :eek:

hawk1
03-14-2006, 5:20 PM
Ok Wes, since you started this story, don't leave out anything on what motivated you to stop selling said profitable lowers....:confused:

I recall reading the thread you wrote getting out of the business of selling lowers. Please fill in the blanks...

6172crew
03-14-2006, 5:25 PM
"This one is to those who didn't care about DOJ's absurd scare tactics. Thanks to you Mr. Off List Lower Gun Store Opener Accessory Guy"

:) We should get ahold of Budwiser

YeaaaaaYea stick it to the man Mr Offlist lowaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

When the other were dreaming of Fab10s you were burning the midnight oil mr Offlist.

Smelling like CLPPPPPPPP!

tenpercentfirearms
04-30-2006, 12:59 AM
I had called for a substitute on my way home from San Jose Sunday night as I knew I had too much to do at the shop the next day with all of this lower craziness. So I rolled into the shop about 9 AM and man would it be a long day.

Through out the day I had guys just randomly driving in from all over the state. They had read about the successful sales in San Jose and now they were ready to drive and get the ball rolling. So early in the afternoon we were seeing a lot of customers for our sleepy little shop in our sleepy little town just coming out of the woodwork.

I had also decided that with this thing really taking off, I might want some legal counsel on how to do this and do this correctly. This was still the early days and so far the best source of information I had was from Mr. Chinn the day before. I started calling around to find a good firearms lawyer and make sure I would be doing things on the up and up and not get in any trouble. My partner was concerned that if we had to start spending money on lawyers, then it might not be worth it. So we decided if we were going to have to start talking to lawyers and pay for them, we would have to raise the price on the lowers.

My wife was substitute teaching that day so I took her lunch and man was I excited. I thought for sure I was going to make a substantial sum of money off of this deal. I could hardly contain myself, this little gun shop was going places.

Then we hit a snag. Three of my favorite customers were in the shop. It was three young guys just out of college that had been following this on the web and on a whim they drove up from Los Angeles to DROS some lowers. We were having a good time talking and chatting while I did their paperwork when I received a call from Fulton. The secretary there stated they were having second thoughts and they were going to cancel the 100 they were going to ship out that day. Clint at Fulton had cut me a good deal and was going to sell me my second batch of 100 for $20 less each so that way it equaled out to $10 less across the board. So losing this second 100 lowers hurt. I was already working on other contacts so I could deal with it, but it was troublesome.

The three guys there can tell you, I went from being pretty darn ecstatic to almost depressed. I was tired, I had gone through several emotional roller coasters in the last week and it was starting to show. Those three guys were so good to me though. I could tell they found the whole process fascinating, like they were witnessing history first hand. I just felt like dirt. They encouraged me and paid a little extra for their lowers for my trouble.

I called Joe from Joeken Firearms and started to set up an alternate plan. They had plenty of Sun Devils and my new plan was to replace the Fultons with Sun Devils. The only problem was I thought I was on a two week deadline. The idea of the Sun Devils not getting here in time and me being stuck with 200-300 lowers and about $20-30K in the hole was rather stressful. I discussed everything with my partner and we cautiously decided to move forward.

At the same time I started telling people to stop coming to Taft (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=25347). The problem was that there was one guy who left the Redding area and was in the middle of his 8 hour trip south! I wasnít answering the phone and he was in some flea bag motel somewhere in between and he was stressing out! (see the thread above for a little primary source history) Of course I had to accommodate that guy, but a lot of guys were suddenly in limbo. No one seemed to know what was going on and I was way too swamped to respond to anything except quick blurbs on the Internet here and there.

It was about 6 PM when the bomb dropped. Here is the e-mail I received from Fulton Armory.

************************************************** **********************
----- Original Message -----
From: wclint@comcast.net
To: Ten Percent Firearms
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 18:19
Subject: Fulton Armory Demands Return Of Our Property

Hi Wes-

We called UPS today and requested that they return back to us the shipment of 100 receivers we sent out last week to you.

If for any reason UPS delivers them in error, Fulton Armory demands that you return all 100 of them back to us. We will credit your credit card the moment the receivers are received by us, as well as reimburse you for standard ground shipping, handling and insurance. If they are not returned, we will call the CADOJ and list them as stolen.

ATF allows that any licensee may refuse to sell to anyone, for any reason. I so now refuse to sell our lowers to you.

The California DOJ called me today and informed me that even though our receivers are technically legal for sale in CA, we __could__ still be prosecuted by any of the over 100 DA's in California. An essential fact that you withheld from me in our communications. Had I been aware of this critical information, and that there was some legal dispute, I would have never shipped these receivers to California.

As mentioned earlier today via our phone con, the second 100 receivers that you ordered will not be shipped.

It seems these days, there is legal, and then there's "legal". Who knew. Who can know these things?

A copy of this email will be faxed/mailed to the CADOJ.

W. Clint McKee
Owner
Fulton Armory
Clint@fulton-armory.com
http://www.fulton-armory.com
************************************************** **********************
I had sold about 300 lowers at this time and now I was not only out 100, but now a full 200 lowers! This was not good news. I had learned a very hard lesson, donít sell something you donít have. I felt obligated to take care of the customers I had so I made plans to supplement a full 200 lowers and just take care of my initial orders and be done with lowers forever. There was still this intense stress over when I was going to be able to get these lowers and if it would be before a list or not.

So I worked through the night trying to get things squared away. I had hundreds of e-mails, my voicemail was full at 25 messages, and we had dozens of fax orders. I had to drop everything and just take what I already had. The intense demand for these lowers pretty much overwhelmed me in no time and now it was time for damage control. I think I might have gotten to bed by 12 PM.

I woke up Tuesday the 13th at about 3 AM (This post proves it (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=184489&postcount=23)). Sometime Monday the Kimber group buy I had set up came through and about 8 pistols came in and I had to ship those out. So rather than just lie in bed and not sleep I headed to the shop to get them packaged up before I left for school at about 7 AM. I was tired! I got the pistols packaged up and drove to Bakersfield to teach a full day of continuation high school.

As pulled into the parking lot, my partner called. He hadnít slept much that night either. We were both stressed about the financial risk we were taking since we had no idea how soon Mr. Chinn was going to be able to follow through. Then we decided to get some relief. We made the decision to honor the 110 orders we could with the Stags that were coming in and to cancel all of the rest of the orders. We had just become overwhelmed. I immediately felt a great weight lifted of my chest, but I wasnít sure how the customers were going to handle it.

On Tuesday the 13th at 8:46 AM I made the announcement (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=25527) that I had to cancel all lower orders except those that I had a DROS and a driverís license for. This was sort of a raw deal for early order guys as they sent in their orders, but hadnít made it up to DROS because I left for San Jose. So basically everyone who came to the San Jose Show suddenly shot to the front of the line. There were a few lucky guys who just came to Taft anyway even though I said no more orders, but how could I turn a guy or girl who drives to Taft away? So it probably wasnít necessarily the fairest list of all time, but I tried my best.

It appears I came home after work, probably talked to my partners a little, and then went to sleep. I had to take the afternoon off even though I promised to produce a list. I told everyone that even if you think you made it on the list, assume you didnít and start looking elsewhere. And this is where the great part of dealing with all of these great customers began. Instead of being bitter or being upset with me, everyone just kept moving. Immediately people started setting up new buys all over California. Despite the best efforts of the DOJ, the flood gates were open. These people would be damned before they let this opportunity go by. So guys started looking elsewhere and finding a way to get lowers. Sure I would have loved to have had those sales, but I had learned my lesson, I was in way over my head.

I woke up the morning of the 14th feeling a little better and went to work like normal. Thankfully this was the last week of the semester and I didnít have much planned, so I could get away with not being to intense at school. It was a good thing because I wasnít very well rested at all and my mind was obviously elsewhere. It was funny because I was taking part in this great huge undertaking so much bigger than myself and none of my students or co-workers really knew what was going on. Here I was probably one of the most famous people in the state in this one small circle and I didnít have time nor the energy to get a big head, I just had to get a job done.

tenpercentfirearms
04-30-2006, 1:00 AM
I went to the shop on the night of Wednesday the 14th and created a final list of who made it and who didnít. It wasnít too hard to do. If I had their DROS and driverís license, they went on the front of the list to get their lower based on the time I got it. Anyone who drove to Taft went first and then by order of purchase from the San Jose Show. Most Saturday San Jose guys made it and then I had to cut off some of the Sunday guys. Again, the list was as fair as I could make it, but I did play a few favorites. For example the guy at the San Jose Show that stood there for 20 minutes saying, ďOh my God!Ē That guy was so entertaining; I couldnít even come to the point of telling him no so he went to the front of the list. There werenít many like that, but I was the owner so I could make those decisions.

By 11:35 PM the list was complete and I was able to start notifying guys if they made it or not. The next two days were spent trying to figure out if my 110 Stags were indeed going to make it and worrying about whether a list was coming or not. I was still concerned that my out of state middle man for Stags was taking a little longer than I liked for me to get the Stags. I started researching the laws and wanted to make sure we would get these things locked in. I figured out that the DOJ frowns upon starting long gun DROS before you have a long gun in stock, but there is nothing they can do about it. So I made the decision to go ahead and start everyoneís DROS that had made the list on Friday the 16th of December.

I spent most of my night Friday the 16th inputting one DROS form after another. I got a process down where I mainly did the inputting and then had my partner fill out the missing spots on the paperwork later as she had more time than me. Once I got everyoneís DROS started, I felt a lot better, but I still had to wait for the lowers to actually arrive. The good news is I was going on my two week Christmas break so I at least didnít have to worry about teaching for two weeks! With all of those DROSes started on the same day, that put the official pick up day the 27th since I started the DROSes late in the night.

I believe the Stags finally showed up on Tuesday or Wednesday the 20th or 21st. Man did that feel good. As soon as that happened, the 110 I sold were now locked in. Sometime in the mean time I also ordered 30 Sun Devils just to sell to local guys and those finally came in too. I also made a contact with a guy down in Highland (Los Angeles) that wanted to get in on this action. He was ready to start ordering all sorts of lowers and selling them like crazy so I was giving him my experience. We eventually cut a deal and he was willing to cut me in on some of his supply because he had an out of state FFL so he could be a middle man for more lower sales. He agreed to order some more lowers from me so he could get a bigger discount for us and he would just charge me a small fee for bringing them in. This began a very good relationship between Cold War Shooters and Ten Percent Firearms.

Tuesday the 27th came and man, were we busy. All day long a steady stream of vehicles came down I-5 from the Bay Area to a small oil town on the western edge of the San Joaquin Valley. Everyone was all smiles and they brought all sorts of presents. Big tips, cases of beer, welded signs for me shop, and food of all sorts. Everyone left with a big smile on their face and the joy was definitely in the air. It was electric and it certainly impressed my partner. He saw what a big deal this was to so many guys and I think he might have thought for a brief moment all this hassle and loss of sleep was worth it. He probably didnít see the DOJ coming and neither did I.

radioactivelego
04-30-2006, 6:53 AM
"223 lowers? Are you ATF?"

"Why in God's name would you want an AR-15 lower?"

"No sorry I'm not a moron."

These are the responses I was given around Los Angeles just a month after you started selling lowers. It's people like you tenpercent that make America proud. :)

PIRATE14
05-01-2006, 12:49 PM
Wes....u da man:D

Bridgeguy
05-01-2006, 2:32 PM
Wes,

I don't know you, and I didn't find this forum until after the fact, but I did not find out about this windfall until early last week from my local FFL who had just found out as well.

Suffice it to say that I've got 3 Stag lowers and an ITM AK lower DROSed right now and am frantically looking for an AR-10 off-list lower as we speak.

From the bottom of my heart, I can only say THANK YOU!! And that doesn't even come close. When the 2000 ban hit, I wasn't very financially fluid and was taking a hiatus from the "hanging out at the gun store" thing due to time and work constraints. Needless to say, I was more than a little upset when I found out what that meant to me.

I've been on the brink of leaving Kalifornia (born and raised here) simply due to the incredibly inane laws being passed by our "representative" (representative of who I'm not sure) democracy. This has lifted my spirits more than anything gun-related in the past 6 years and I've got a lot of friends who are jumping on the bandwagon as well.

You are a truly a brave visionary to step up and put your neck on the line for the rest of us and for that, I will forever be thankful that you were able to help everyone out and take that risk.

And I NEVER post on forums but on this one, I had to let you know how much this means.

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones as my wife didn't even blink an eye when I told her what I was doing. On several birthdays and anniversarys, my gift from her has been a firearm or Front Sight lifetime membership, etc. She's one of the "keepers". Usually, something I've decided that we can't afford at that time, and she does it behind my back and then I'm happy.

Only downside is that I wish I had found this info 4 months ago....I would have over a dozen lowers by now. ;)

GTKrockeTT
05-01-2006, 2:37 PM
Wes,

I don't know you, and I didn't find this forum until after the fact, but I did not find out about this windfall until early last week from my local FFL who had just found out as well.

Suffice it to say that I've got 3 Stag lowers and an ITM AK lower DROSed right now and am frantically looking for an AR-10 off-list lower as we speak.

From the bottom of my heart, I can only say THANK YOU!! And that doesn't even come close. When the 2000 ban hit, I wasn't very financially fluid and was taking a hiatus from the "hanging out at the gun store" thing due to time and work constraints. Needless to say, I was more than a little upset when I found out what that meant to me.

I've been on the brink of leaving Kalifornia (born and raised here) simply due to the incredibly inane laws being passed by our "representative" (representative of who I'm not sure) democracy. This has lifted my spirits more than anything gun-related in the past 6 years and I've got a lot of friends who are jumping on the bandwagon as well.

You are a truly a brave visionary to step up and put your neck on the line for the rest of us and for that, I will forever be thankful that you were able to help everyone out and take that risk.

And I NEVER post on forums but on this one, I had to let you know how much this means.

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones as my wife didn't even blink an eye when I told her what I was doing. On several birthdays and anniversarys, my gift from her has been a firearm or Front Sight lifetime membership, etc. She's one of the "keepers". Usually, something I've decided that we can't afford at that time, and she does it behind my back and then I'm happy.

Only downside is that I wish I had found this info 4 months ago....I would have over a dozen lowers by now. ;)

perhaps, but they're cheaper now. ;)

KenV
05-01-2006, 8:02 PM
perhaps, but they're cheaper now. ;)

Yeah, and that sucks since I have four and itch for another to the point that I come onto the forum less :eek:

K

pfl101
02-01-2009, 9:20 PM
"He probably didn’t see the DOJ coming and neither did I."

Intriguing statement.

Is this developed elsewhere?

ohsmily
02-01-2009, 9:31 PM
Two years, nine months. That has to be some kind of record. ;)

pfl101
02-01-2009, 9:34 PM
It's remarkable that nobody asked this in that length of time about such an interesting topic.

Maybe that's some kind of a record, too?

gd-bh
02-02-2009, 5:33 AM
Wow..interesting thread. Thanks for bringing it back for us "noob's".

One question...given the history recorded here, has Fulton done anything positive that would cause anyone to even consider buying any of their product?

pfl101
02-02-2009, 6:18 AM
"One question...given the history recorded here, has Fulton done anything positive that would cause anyone to even consider buying any of their product?"

As a fellow newb, I have wondered the same thing.

La Rue Tactical is another dealer who's thought process has limited us in CA.

TommyGun
02-02-2009, 8:25 PM
[QUOTE= He probably didnít see the DOJ coming and neither did I.[/QUOTE]

I'm dying to hear the rest of the story when people have the time! :popcorn:
I moved to California a few years ago and hated the ridiculous laws but after learning about all of this history of the OLL stuff and other victories I am actually feeling proud of the gun owning citizens of California and am honored to be one. I lived in Boston, Massachusetts before and they havent done anything remotely as cool. I'm excited as I have a feeling the fun and the story is far from over and I hope to be a contributing part to it all. :thumbsup:

Notorious
04-20-2010, 11:06 PM
So, Wes, where's the rest of the story?

Alaric
04-21-2010, 12:00 AM
Double necro thread! It can't be killed, don't even try.

Yeah Wes, don't leave us hangin'. :)

tenpercentfirearms
04-21-2010, 5:39 AM
Oh shoot. I didn't finish this? I might work on it later today.

BusBoy
04-21-2010, 6:39 AM
Oh shoot. I didn't finish this? I might work on it later today.

As a newb I found this thread incredibly entertaining even scrolling by other comments that weren't 10%'s!! lol once I got to the end and realized there wasn't anymore to the story I went back and read the full monty! AWESOME story here!

Notorious
04-21-2010, 6:50 AM
Oh shoot. I didn't finish this? I might work on it later today.

Go go go BRUINS!:cool:

tr1t1um
04-21-2010, 7:21 AM
Yeah I want to hear the rest of the story!

Spyder
04-21-2010, 7:32 AM
C'mon Paul Harvey!!!

FortCourageArmory
04-21-2010, 8:03 AM
I can help ya some, Wes. When I started three years ago, we would go through about 10 lowers a month. Now, we're going through 20 a week!!! Not a bad deal, really. :)

bodger
04-21-2010, 8:26 AM
I can help ya some, Wes. When I started three years ago, we would go through about 10 lowers a month. Now, we're going through 20 a week!!! Not a bad deal, really. :)


Good to hear that Tim. I want guys like you to stay in business and prosper. We need more gun shops like FCA!

See you soon.

-Bodger

.22guy
04-21-2010, 9:24 AM
I love this thread. Very entertaining!

bigmike82
04-21-2010, 2:25 PM
Best necropost ever.

xxG3xx
04-21-2010, 3:25 PM
wow i never knew this was here

*tag*

Zomgie
04-21-2010, 4:14 PM
Tagged, indeed.

Moto_Joe
04-21-2010, 5:51 PM
Want more.

gadjeep
04-21-2010, 6:16 PM
TTTTTT-tagged!

parcours
04-21-2010, 7:49 PM
Tag

Spyder
04-21-2010, 11:01 PM
How'd it go from 4 or 5 pages down to two?!

Lateralus
04-22-2010, 2:11 AM
I remember this era. I was still lurking for most of it.

Good memories. I love reading these threads. To know where you came from in relation to where you are now indicates where you will be.

KenV
04-22-2010, 5:25 AM
Oh shoot.

Pun intended? ;)

Oh yeah, I still owe you a phone call on some parts.....been too long since I last went to Taft.

truthseeker
04-22-2010, 10:31 AM
Tagged

Notorious
04-24-2010, 12:25 AM
Because there's 40 posts a page instead of 10.

Blackhawk556
04-24-2010, 1:10 AM
Oh man he's actually going to finish this thread after 20 years 

hopefully it doesnt take two keeps

9mmdude
04-26-2010, 6:37 AM
tag

hntnnut
04-26-2010, 10:59 PM
Good greif how did I ever miss this story.


Richard

Walker
04-27-2010, 4:58 AM
:lurk5:

nrakid88
04-27-2010, 5:42 AM
Wow, amazing thread. The OLL movement is so common to me now, its odd to think it used to be new, scary, and potentially dangerous.

microwaveguy
04-27-2010, 4:51 PM
This story make me want to go out and buy another lower just to support wes

anthonyca
04-27-2010, 9:16 PM
Lol, two weeks.

Jason_2111
04-27-2010, 9:42 PM
tag for reading later

OptionX3
04-27-2010, 9:55 PM
Wow, it's a time capsule. I recall reading the original post.

-Yes, Fulton can suck it
-We just need to a necro post of ShopKeep and it will be complete, ha!

Coltlover
04-27-2010, 11:32 PM
Great story!

jshoebot
04-28-2010, 1:34 AM
you should write a movie script because this is pretty epic stuff. helluva read that's for sure!

smarter
04-28-2010, 1:40 AM
Great story!

qft!

JaMail
07-03-2010, 2:21 PM
braaaaiiiinnnnnnns

Spyder
07-03-2010, 2:25 PM
WTF?

Dangerpin
07-03-2010, 2:53 PM
Yeah, this story needs to get past the cliffhanger.

PsychGuy274
07-03-2010, 2:56 PM
So the show opens and the guys start coming over to my table. Within 15 minutes, I have a line of 20 guys waiting to start their DROS. 15 minutes later the show promoters inform me they have to move my table because my neighbors are complaining that my line is blocking their tables. It was true! I had a huge line waiting. So they picked up my table and moved me to the side of the show where my line could stretch out where there were no tables. The whole time all I could do was have a big smile on my face because I knew the dealer who was so rude earlier had to be watching this huge line at my table.

Doesn't that feel incredibly awesome?

Good for you.

Seesm
07-04-2010, 11:20 PM
This thread was FULL of epic WIN and then lots of lame sauce... Finish it Wes... Geez.

stomper4x4
07-05-2010, 1:45 AM
Hurry and finish this! Great story so far.

I give you 5 days, then I finish it for you, pretending I'm you and I promise it will be all kinds of weird, so get to writing :P

CalNRA
07-05-2010, 2:36 AM
....

Then Wes got into the pink Vespa scooter fad upon learning all the evil black rifles are killing invisible seal puppies in BradyLand. The end.

(search at your own risk of eternal eye searing)

Trench Broom
07-05-2010, 2:47 AM
Look forward to hearing the rest as well. I remember the early days of the OLL craze - fun times. :)

AIMSMALL
07-05-2010, 4:00 AM
:willy_nilly:"oh my god! " :rofl2:
Tagged :lurk5:

tenpercentfirearms
07-05-2010, 7:04 AM
I think I have time today! Let's do this.

+etco2
07-05-2010, 7:07 AM
Thank You! I can't wait.

tenpercentfirearms
07-05-2010, 7:21 AM
I went back to teaching after the Christmas Break on Monday January 2, which we are closed on Mondays. At about 9 AM on Tuesday January 3, 2006 the DOJ rolls up in their unmarked white cars with about four or five agents. Of course I am at school and my partner Dean and Becky are there as they own the recycling center next to our hole in the wall operation. We technically don't open until noon, but we are still green and don't realize we run the show and we want to be helpful.

As Dean opens up the door for them, Agent Jim Marsh says, "If anything is out of order, someone is going to jail." My partner Dean is as cool as they come from having dealt with Kern County Sheriff stings in the recycle industry and replies, "Good, I could use a break."

They come in and want to see our paperwork. In attendance are Ignatius Chinn, Dana McKinnon, Jim Marsh, and a couple others. Dean said that Dana was the coolest of them all and real easy going, but clearly Jim Marsh had a chip on his shoulder. This wasn't the usual audit crew, this was the muscle crew and they were clearly there to let us know they were on to us.

I get the phone call from Becky and it was torture. Luckily I had my class in the computer lab that day so I could get away with pacing all day long.

So Becky was being as cooperative as possible and making all sorts of copies of purchaser's IDs (now I know they had no business doing that). They checked out our lowers and realize they were all legit. They even tried to intimidate us by getting their full auto ARs out of their trunks and trying to swap out the parts, but of course they didn't fit.

We received absolutely zero infractions, but they decided they had a slight victory. We had received in about 30 Superior Arms lowers from Cold War Shooters and some of them had "auto" stamped on the third selector position or the HK style bullet with the open end. They declared these full auto and that they had to take them for inspection. So they boxed up 16 lowers and left the other 75 stripped Stag lowers there along with a receipt.

They packed up and were out of there around 2 PM. I got off work at 3 PM and was back to the shop by 4 PM. I really wasn't sweating the 16 lowers they took because I knew they were legit and the fact they left the other 75 lowers and no one was taken to jail to me was proof. Basically we had been tested and the results were a pass!

I was pretty darn relieved! I talked to Iggy on the phone a couple times that day and he said he was going to evaluate the lowers and he would get back to me. He was pleasant enough about it. A few weeks later I called him and asked how I was going to get those back and his attitude changed. He was short and said I wasn't being cooperative. I didn't want to screw with him so I dropped it.

A few weeks later at the SHOT Show I ran into Terry Williams of Superior Arms and told him what happened. Without hesitation he said he would send me some replacements free of charge and he did! So to this date I am only out the principle of the matter and not out a single dime for those lowers. I still think sooner or later I ought to push to get them back and auction them off with all proceeds going to CGF.

Dangerpin
07-05-2010, 8:46 AM
4 years later and you still haven't gotten the lowers back. Isn't this illegal seizure, or is the case still open?

If not, I can't imagine that the DOJ still even has the lowers.

+etco2
07-05-2010, 8:56 AM
Oh man, I want bid on that auction.

tenpercentfirearms
07-05-2010, 9:23 AM
The rest of this story is really spread out over the next four years. Heck, the only good way I can tell it is to go back and look at old Calguns posts and see what happened when.

We just kept on selling AR15 goodies. I got a website, started selling online, and our little gun shop was quite successful. We finally got some display cases in the little shop, got a gun rack for the wall, and soon packed more AR15 goodies into a small building that I thought was possible. We kept on selling lowers and lowers sold well under the auspices that a new ban might come any minute.

The first move by the DOJ came on February 3, 2006.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=27911

Basically the DOJ tried a scare tactic to slow lower sales. We quickly realized it was nothing more than a scare tactic and sales continued. I just read through that whole thread and it was quite enjoyable knowing what we know now. If I remember correctly, the memo didn't slow down sales at all.

The phrase "two weeks" was at the time being thrown around with glee. Two weeks after the "Category 4 Memo", nothing had happened. In fact, I think it wasn't until April that they finally made their next move.

After doing some Calguns research, by May 2006 we knew something was coming. This was when I started my infamous "Educate by Scooter Campaign". I claimed I was riding around the state yelling, "The list is coming, the list is coming."

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=33187

I made a picture thread on it, but despite searching for it in the last 45 minutes, I can't find it.

On May 9, 2006 the DOJ posted a memo stating they would not be adding any new guns to the list and that they were going to clarify through the CCR process what "capacity to accept a detachable magazine" meant.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=33614

We knew this was pretty much BS as their clarifying what "capacity to accept" meant would actually confuse the issue even further.

Despite this, on June 27, 2006, they published a new memo that they were going to attempt to change the CCR.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=36481

What is interesting in reading these old threads is that we didn't have a Calguns Foundation like we do today. Our efforts to respond were still fractured to some extent. With some behind the scenes efforts of the NRA, we responded en masse to the written and physically present comment period.

At the same time, AG Lockyer had some legislation drafted to end the "two weeks" problem once and for all. Lockyer had no guarantees that the new attorney general might start adding guns to the list. If that were to occur, back door registration of assault weapons would become a reality in California. In order to stop this, Lockyer would have to strip his office of having the ability to list new assault weapons.

He helped create and get passed AB2728. The most important part of AB2728 is that the AG no longer had the ability to add new makes and models to the Kasler List and it additionally gives the individual district attorneys the option of prosecuting actual assault weapon cases as an infraction with no criminal record or jail time. This was a huge victory for the OLL movement in California (except to people who still wanted to register assault weapons).

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=40174

What this additionally created was about three long months of wondering if there was going to be a final list of assault weapons.

On November 1, 2006 the DOJ published another memo that clarified their stance on their proposed CCR regulations. This new memo further confused the issue and was pretty much seen as just more DOJ noise.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=41411

The DOJ memos were having the opposite effect that I think the DOJ intended. They appeared to be trying to slow sales, but it appears that these memos were actually increasing sales. Most consumers seemed to have a hard time understanding the memos and just figured they had better get something before it got banned.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=41661

As 2006 was drawing to a close and 2007 was on the horizon, the entire OLL world was waiting in anticipation to see if the DOJ was going to actually list or not. Behind the scenes Gene Hoffman was working on an idea for a bullet style release button and was waiting for the AG to lose some power before letting it out.

At midnight January 1, 2007, nothing happened. No memos. No listings. Nothing. We had won. Then Gene posted this.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45321

After a discussion with Darrin Prince of Prince50 fame he already had a Bullet Button set up and ready to go. I started selling them within two months and now there are tons of knock offs to this day.

The only thing left to see was whether the DOJ was going to actually act on their CCR change by the end of 365 days in August 2007. That time frame came and went and we are pretty much exactly where we are today.

The Attorney General cannot list any new assault weapons. Off list lowers and complete rifles are legit. And probably hundreds of thousands of California residents have some form of AR15 in their houses.

Dangerpin
07-05-2010, 9:43 AM
The Attorney General cannot list any new assault weapons. Off list lowers and complete rifles are legit. And probably hundreds of thousands of California residents have some form of AR15 in their houses.

And as one of those people I want to thank you and all those who put their necks and pocketbooks on the line.

If I had been aware of what was happening in 2005/2006 I could have very easily been that guy at the gun show pulling my hair and freaking out.

tenring
07-05-2010, 9:52 AM
As many have said, thank you for "hanging it out there". We have always enjoyed doing business with you, and wish you further prosperity in the future!

Thanks also for the walk down memory lane. :D

Jason

AIMSMALL
07-05-2010, 10:40 AM
Tenpercent will be getting the sale for my next lower and I'll be checking into some other upgrade items for what I already have. I'll be looking forward to making my first purchase with tenpercent. OP, Thank you for your continuing support of our rights here in CA.

shock
07-05-2010, 10:53 AM
thanks for the story :D

Anti-Hero
07-05-2010, 11:17 AM
What a story!

firemedic679
07-05-2010, 11:24 AM
what a great first read as my first time on calguns.net. i enjoyed going through some of those older threads as well. my how times have changed. very informative and thanks to everyone involved for "sticking your neck out" through the years.

CharAznable
07-05-2010, 12:18 PM
Reading this just makes me angry. Furious. Wanna-kick-the-cat pissed. (Sorry, kitteh.) These jackholes were doing this crap with my tax money? Makes me wanna wish a painful terminal illness on them.

anthonyca
07-05-2010, 12:36 PM
Great story from someone with the true American spirit!!!

Roccobro
07-05-2010, 1:41 PM
What a fitting way to spend my Fourth of July holiday. Remembering the "good times" from the perspective of a shop owner.

Thanks Wes. It was hell getting lowers when there were only 2 known suppliers of OLL's in all of CA!

And that was before I even found CGN! :D

Justin

thayne
07-05-2010, 2:50 PM
And as one of those people I want to thank you and all those who put their necks and pocketbooks on the line.

If I had been aware of what was happening in 2005/2006 I could have very easily been that guy at the gun show pulling my hair and freaking out.

+1! :gunsmilie:

Steyr_223
07-05-2010, 3:07 PM
Wes,

Thanks for all you have done!

So CA DOJ BF, stole 16 Superior Arms lowers and never gave them back? Since these were legit then they took them without payment..

KaTooM
07-05-2010, 3:28 PM
This tread makes me want to drive to Taft and buy lots of expensive toys with cash...Hats off to all involved.

:King:

grimmreaper
07-05-2010, 3:34 PM
thanks wes , becky, for all you have done and all you are doing for us , and wes thank you for taking the time with my friend (Chris)I brought in the other day (he got the rra coyote upper and the kaiser lower)thats one of many things I like about ten percent firearms SUPERIOR CUSTOMER SERVICE !and you have always stood behind everything you have sold !

dwtt
07-05-2010, 6:58 PM
On May 9, 2006 the DOJ posted a memo stating they would not be adding any new guns to the list and that they were going to clarify through the CCR process what "capacity to accept a detachable magazine" meant.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=33614

We knew this was pretty much BS as their clarifying what "capacity to accept" meant would actually confuse the issue even further.

Despite this, on June 27, 2006, they published a new memo that they were going to attempt to change the CCR.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=36481

What is interesting in reading these old threads is that we didn't have a Calguns Foundation like we do today. Our efforts to respond were still fractured to some extent. With some behind the scenes efforts of the NRA, we responded en masse to the written and physically present comment period.

This incident was also important because it was the first time some of us who bashed the NRA for abandoning California realized how much they were doing in the background, silently and without much chest thumping. The 12 Calgunners who carpooled to Sacramento for the hearing saw the NRA at the hearing, but the CRPA and GOC were conspicuously absent. I think Ed Worley was there representing the NRA. A lot of us later ate crow for all the bad things we said earlier about the NRA.

Also, when is Ben going to finish writing his book?

CalNRA
07-06-2010, 12:23 AM
A lot of us later ate crow for all the bad things we said earlier about the NRA.

How did it taste? :D

I'm not involved in any NRA operations by a long shot, but the number of lowers sold from me telling everyone I know and meet that they can have "self-loading 223 rifle based on a popular design" again(with a few changes) is...numerous.

BTW I am still having a hard time typing "AR15 rifle" on Calguns from all the late night reading....

Omil
07-06-2010, 12:59 AM
Wow, true American's spirit!

1911su16b870
07-06-2010, 10:47 AM
+ a bazillion Wes! Just a quick plug on how truely awesome it was to be here on calguns during this time and learn how to get your own CA-legal "evil" AR lower from the hard work done by Wes and others on this board. Ammo Bros was my local OLL dealer and I remember how they couldn't keep them in stock!

bjl333
07-09-2010, 11:25 PM
I just read the whole thread and I have to say " THANK YOU" to Wes. The whole OLL thing is what being an American should be about. The freedom that comes with being an American should not be imtimated by Buracrats that have nothing to offer the people.

Notorious
07-10-2010, 7:41 AM
I just read the whole thread and I have to say " THANK YOU" to Wes. The whole OLL thing is what being an American should be about. The freedom that comes with being an American should not be imtimated by Buracrats that have nothing to offer the people.

NRA or someone needs to make a documentary on this whole ordeal and put it on NatGeo or History Channel or something and show the world what this stupid socialist paradise has become. It would be very interesting to people around this country to see how the CA DOJ treats its own citizens.

BTW, bureaucrats, by definition, have nothing to offer anyone other than perpetuating the bureaucracy.

Quser.619
07-10-2010, 3:30 PM
Amazing read, interesting to see the progression made in a few short years

Seesm
07-10-2010, 6:10 PM
This tread makes me want to drive to Taft and buy lots of expensive toys with cash...Hats off to all involved.

:King:

Dont you dare threaten TPF with a good time.

doughboy334
07-10-2010, 6:27 PM
I bought my first lower in 08 when most of the controversy died down but thanks a lot Wes and everyone involved in bringing those first lowers in!

frankm
07-10-2010, 6:39 PM
You're right about one thing. I didn't buy an "assault weapon" until they made the first ban. Then me and my friends were like, we gotta buy 'em now.

gs3608
07-10-2010, 8:04 PM
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

Sun-tzu

ZenMasta
07-11-2010, 1:07 AM
There should be a calguns.net hall of fame, and this should thread should be moved there.

faterikcartman
07-11-2010, 1:36 AM
I bought five from Wes back then. I'd like to think us early adopters helped pave the way. As an aside, at the time I felt the DOJ had a way to stop this but luckily they lacked, in my opinion anyway, a competent lawyer to figure out their best strategy. The Iggy stories by the way, have always been, IMO, pretty funny.

bjl333
07-11-2010, 2:02 AM
There should be a calguns.net hall of fame, and this should thread should be moved there.



Thats actually a very good idea !!! This ones got my vote ...

BroncoBob
07-11-2010, 9:35 AM
Good to have this little bit of history on just how we are able to have these firearms today. Good reading and education for all. Having done business with Wes, I can say it was a pleasure and I'm completely statisfied with the transaction.

Rob454
07-11-2010, 10:25 AM
I found this.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL

LazyBoy
07-11-2010, 2:30 PM
So to this date I am only out the principle of the matter and not out a single dime for those lowers. I still think sooner or later I ought to push to get them back and auction them off with all proceeds going to CGF.
If you ever get those lowers back I'll definitely bidding on one.
Thanks for all you have done!

franklinarmory
07-12-2010, 7:22 AM
Wes, thank you for having the intelligence, insight, and intestinal fortitude to challenge the conventional wisdom of the time! If it were not for you, Gene, Darrin, and others, Franklin Armory would not be building ARs in California!

bwiese
07-12-2010, 9:01 AM
Wes, thank you for having the intelligence, insight, and intestinal fortitude to challenge the conventional wisdom of the time! If it were not for you, Gene, Darrin, and others, Franklin Armory would not be building ARs in California!

It is so friggin' cool there's a black rifle manufacturer just down the road from me!

Who'd'a thunk it back in 2006?

krushem2000
07-01-2011, 9:12 PM
:patriot: In spirit of 4th of July weekend. Thank you Wes and others for fighting for our rights to own black rifles here in CA without you guys we'd still be plinking with .22 or bb guns. :thumbsup: those who forget history are doomed to repeat...

milw50717
05-02-2013, 9:28 AM
I found this.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL

Old thread, but that is a great timeline of the OLL story. Should be compulsory reading here on Calguns!

VAReact
05-02-2013, 2:00 PM
Agreed, great read. A story for the ages...

cmoss76
05-02-2013, 3:40 PM
It makes me feel good to read this with all the other BS we see these days in the news bashing and demonizing this right that we all love. A good history lesson of the hard work and sacrafices that were required to get to where we are now.

Thanks!

Battleicious
05-02-2013, 3:53 PM
http://i.imgur.com/MIj6o.gif

Suvhater
05-02-2013, 7:35 PM
Seriously why wasnt this stickied 6 years ago?

Or at least moved to the CGN's Best Threads section. This was an awesome read, thanks 10%