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SVT-40
04-30-2010, 3:04 PM
I had a customer ask me a question I could not answer regarding his registered AW and caliber change.

He has a registered AR-15 carbine in 5.56 caliber. He was asking if it was legal for him to also shoot 9mm using the registered lower and a non-permanent magazine adapter attached to a 9mm upper?

He is aware he would also need to change the buffer ect.

His registration papers list 5.56 as the caliber. But I'm not sure if changing the caliber would be "manufacturing a AW" as it's already been "manufactured" and would only be shooting a different caliber.

In the same line of question could you use a .22 LR upper on a registered 5.56 lower?

OleCuss
04-30-2010, 3:21 PM
You can use any legal upper on the registered lower.

So sure, you can put a 9mm on it, a .308, or whatever as long as the upper is otherwise legal and it makes sense from an engineering point of view.

Sniper3142
04-30-2010, 3:25 PM
Yes

You can use an upper of any caliber on a RAW lower.

- 5.56/223
- 6.8 SPC
- 6.5 Grendel
- .204 Ruger
- 50 BMG
- 9mm
- 45ACP

And the list goes on.
Just make sure the barrel is at least 16 inches long.

Dr Rockso
04-30-2010, 3:29 PM
Yep, it's legal. He could also stick a .50 BMG upper on it if he wanted.

OleCuss
04-30-2010, 3:35 PM
From an engineering aspect? Is a .50BMG a smart upper for a standard lower? As in, will the lower stand up to the hammering, will the .50BMG bullets go through the magwell?

SixPointEight
04-30-2010, 3:37 PM
It would have to be a bolt upper. The 50BMG would certainly not go through the magwell. Maybe the projectile, but the casing isn't even close.

Dr Rockso
04-30-2010, 3:49 PM
From an engineering aspect? Is a .50BMG a smart upper for a standard lower? As in, will the lower stand up to the hammering, will the .50BMG bullets go through the magwell?

http://www.bohicaarms.com/images/IMG_1764_600.jpg

They're bolt action single shots. I've never heard of lowers being damaged or failing from having a .50 BMG upper attached.

ScottB
04-30-2010, 4:00 PM
I was under the impression that .50 BMG was a separate registration from the earlier AW registration. If I have a RAW AR but have never owned a .50 BMG upper, is it still legal for me to buy a .50 BMG upper?

Is there a definitive answer on this?

OleCuss
04-30-2010, 4:04 PM
Thank you for the information on the .50 BMG!

OleCuss
04-30-2010, 4:09 PM
I was under the impression that .50 BMG was a separate registration from the earlier AW registration. If I have a RAW AR but have never owned a .50 BMG upper, is it still legal for me to buy a .50 BMG upper?

Is there a definitive answer on this?

A definitive answer? For that you should probably write to the DOJ and try to get it in writing - or seek the advice of an attorney.

But there seems to be strong consensus that the .50BMG upper is legal. The way I look at it is that the upper is pretty much just a barrel and I can replace the barrel on my weapon without any problems. I'm not manufacturing when I change the barrel - I'm just changing a part attached to my weapon (the lower). To my knowledge the prohibition for the likes of me would be to manufacture a .50BMG rifle or to import one. Since I already have the registered AW, putting the barrel on the thing would just be re-barreling.

That said, I don't really want the .50BMG - although the cool factor is definitely there.

Dr Rockso
04-30-2010, 4:28 PM
I was under the impression that .50 BMG was a separate registration from the earlier AW registration. If I have a RAW AR but have never owned a .50 BMG upper, is it still legal for me to buy a .50 BMG upper?

Is there a definitive answer on this?

See this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=190502).

OleCuss
04-30-2010, 5:36 PM
http://www.bohicaarms.com/images/IMG_1764_600.jpg

They're bolt action single shots.
.
.
.

I did a little searching which indicates you are right - but not for much longer. Tactilite is coming out with a side magazine-fed upper in the near future. http://www.tactilite.com/tactilite-t-2-magazine-fed-uppers/view-all-products.html

ScottB
04-30-2010, 7:07 PM
See this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=190502).

Thanks! Reading all that made my head hurt, but I gather the answer is

1) yes, I can attach a .50 BMG upper to my RAW AR15 and
2) yes, I have discovered yet another great way to blow an insane amount of money :)

Aleksandr Mravinsky
04-30-2010, 7:14 PM
Could you attach a .510DTC to an unregistered lower?

Spyder
04-30-2010, 8:02 PM
Yeeup. Lots of us have done it too.

I'm playing with the idea of selling mine, just 'cause I'm tired of paying interest in student loans!

bwiese
04-30-2010, 10:47 PM
I had a customer ask me a question I could not answer regarding his registered AW and caliber change.

He has a registered AR-15 carbine in 5.56 caliber. He was asking if it was legal for him to also shoot 9mm using the registered lower and a non-permanent magazine adapter attached to a 9mm upper?

He is aware he would also need to change the buffer ect.

His registration papers list 5.56 as the caliber. But I'm not sure if changing the caliber would be "manufacturing a AW" as it's already been "manufactured" and would only be shooting a different caliber.

In the same line of question could you use a .22 LR upper on a registered 5.56 lower?


Caliber changes on registered AWs are fine. They do not change the status of the AW and do not create a "new unregistered AW".

When the reg form was completed, caliber info was requested but was only supplemental info (along with barrel length). AWs are reg'd against you vs. its make/model/serial#.

Many folks were worried about this in 2000 and registered their AWs under multiple calibers "just in case" before further research, and indeed DOJ information and deeper analysis of the law, indicated it was not a worry. (The folks that registered their guns under multiple calibers got their caliber recorded as "8888".)

There are no degrees, shades, tiers or levels of AW status. If a gun is a registered AW, it can have any/all evil features (except grenade launcher) and be of any caliber - including 50BMG.

bwiese
04-30-2010, 10:50 PM
Could you attach a .510DTC to an unregistered lower?

.510DTC is not 50BMG. 50BMG is the only caliber banned by AB50, for rifles only, and no other .50 caliber chambering is banned (as long as the round for that won't fit/fire in a 50BMG firearm).

The answer to your question is "Yes" as long as:
1. the lower is off-list and not banned by name;
2. the gun created from this combo is not in an SB23-prohibited AW configuration
(semiauto centerfire rifle with detachable magazine and any evil feature)

bwiese
04-30-2010, 11:08 PM
I was under the impression that .50 BMG was a separate registration from the earlier AW registration.

Treatment of AWs and 50BMGs in CA law are essentially the same, however they are distinct legal entities and are really separate registration categories.


If I have a RAW AR but have never owned a .50 BMG upper, is it still legal for
me to buy a .50 BMG upper?

PC 12280(a)/(c) prohibit possession, transport, etc. of 50BMG rifles.
PC 12285(g) says that if gun is already a reg'd AW, it doesn't have to be re-reg'd as 50BMG "for the purposes of this chapter".

jas000
05-01-2010, 9:12 AM
If I have a RAW AR but have never owned a .50 BMG upper, is it still legal for
me to buy a .50 BMG upper?

PC 12280(a)/(c) prohibit possession, transport, etc. of 50BMG rifles.
PC 12285(g) says that if gun is already a reg'd AW, it doesn't have to be re-reg'd as 50BMG "for the purposes of this chapter".

This means yes.

See also here:

http://fiftycal.org/newletters/070822/

loather
05-01-2010, 10:27 AM
If CGF can have that .50 BMG ban overturned, I'd celebrate by buying a .50 BMG upper and taking as many calgunners I can find out shooting to break it in :)