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RedBluff
03-02-2006, 8:31 PM
Being a relative newcomer to your site and to weapons ownership.
I'd like to pick your collective brains for a sec or 2.

1. What would happen to me if I choose to not register my stripped lower if and when they add it to the list?

2. I'm thinking of buying 2 lowers while I'm at it. One for myself and one to sell. Am I correct in assuming that I must sell the one before it goes on the list? Do you all believe that the prices will only increase as that day draws closer?

Thanks, I've learn alot reading your posts and I hope to learn more in the years to come.

RB

HEUER
03-02-2006, 8:44 PM
Being a relative newcomer to your site and to weapons ownership.
I'd like to pick your collective brains for a sec or 2.

1. What would happen to me if I choose to not register my stripped lower if and when they add it to the list?

2. I'm thinking of buying 2 lowers while I'm at it. One for myself and one to sell. Am I correct in assuming that I must sell the one before it goes on the list? Do you all believe that the prices will only increase as that day draws closer?

Thanks, I've learn alot reading your posts and I hope to learn more in the years to come.

RB

If you get pulled over by a LEO in transit to the range with un reg AW's it is a felony. Not a good idea.

Mr.RoDiN
03-02-2006, 8:54 PM
Yes you do have to sell your receiver before the list is ever updated. As far as not registering? Not a good idea. I mean here is your opportunity to have a legal "AW" (well maybe). So why blow it? What would you do with an unregistered lower? IMO it would just be a paper weight. And I am not a hundred percent sure on this, and depending on what is the final decision with the DOJ, I think you would have to sell it out of state, comply with SB23(no "evil features) or keep it as a paper weight. Also if the DOJ decides to go with "category 4" idea, you pretty much would have to register or sell out of state because either way its an "AW". Im a newb as well so correct me if im wrong guys just trying to help out.

RedBluff
03-02-2006, 8:59 PM
Thank you Doc, sound advice that I will heed.

1911_Mitch
03-02-2006, 9:04 PM
[QUOTE=Mr.RoDiN] What would you do with an unregistered lower? IMO it would just be a paper weight. QUOTE]

Question- (preface - I plan on registering mine when/if the list comes out)

but....
If you didn't register it, and you kept it stripped, wouldn't that also be an illegal AW paper weight? I say yes. If your house was ever searched (say if there was a domestic dispute, or some punk decided to hide in your trash can and the police had to search your house), you would still be in possession of an illegal AW.

Mr.RoDiN
03-02-2006, 9:08 PM
Ah that would be my guess as well. SInce you are registering the receiver, technically that IS the rifle. So even stripped, It is considered an unregistered rifle.

RedBluff
03-02-2006, 9:17 PM
The moment the listing regulation becomes effective, the lowers turn from regular rifles to AWs. There is a 90-day "amnesty" (wrong legal term, fundamentally the registration period), during that time you can not be prosecuted for having an unregistered AW.

If you don't register, you are in possession of an unregistered AW - see penal code section 12280. That is a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of 1 year. If you transport the AW (meaning taking it out from your residence), that is a felony with a minimum sentence of 4 years in state prison. If you try to sell or transfer it, the minimum sentence is 5 years. Note that any felony will get rid of your gun rights for life; the possession misdemeanor will probably get rid of your gun rights for a decade or so; I can't be bothered to look it up.

If you don't want the receiver once it becomes an AW, you can destroy it. You can also turn it in to police and have them destroy it; the way I read section 12280(b) you will only be charged with a misdemeanor and only have to pay a $500 fine, but only if you do so within one year after they are declared an AW, and only if you have one or two AWs. Otherwise, its a year in the slammer.

In summary: Not registring the receiver sounds like serious playing with legal fire. Ultra-high-risk activity. Legal russian roulette with high stakes. Big mistake. Bad move.

Edit: Forgot to mention: Selling it out of state involves transporting it (since it is currently probably stored at your residence, and at the very minimum you have to get it to the next FedEx place), and transferring it, so you are in for a felony with 5-year term. On the other hand, the chance of getting caught when selling it out of state is very small. Still, for the $100 you are likely to get for it, I would never risk 5 years in Folsom.

Thank you TL.

Mr.RoDiN
03-02-2006, 9:19 PM
thanks tree logger. wouldnt wanna make anyone a felon. quick question though. Say the rifle was registered, would you be able to sell it out of state afterwards? Or does it basically have to be destroyed? For instance, I know when I die no one can inherit the rifle, but can my family at least sell it out of state?

bwiese
03-02-2006, 10:44 PM
thanks tree logger. wouldnt wanna make anyone a felon. quick question though. Say the rifle was registered, would you be able to sell it out of state afterwards? Or does it basically have to be destroyed? For instance, I know when I die no one can inherit the rifle, but can my family at least sell it out of state?

If it's reg'd, you yourself can sell it out of state. Just drive it to NV, AZ, etc. and sell it to/thru an FFL dealer there.

If you are shipping it out of state it must first go thru a Calif. FFL that also holds an AW permit. (Ordinarily, you can ship guns out of state directly to an FFL there.)

If you get run over by a bus, your family can't take possession of it in CA; instead, your probate attorney has (??) 90 days to legally sell it, move it out of state, etc.

shopkeep
03-02-2006, 11:32 PM
The moment the listing regulation becomes effective, the lowers turn from regular rifles to AWs. There is a 90-day "amnesty" (wrong legal term, fundamentally the registration period), during that time you can not be prosecuted for having an unregistered AW.


This is another area that's interesting to me. The DOJ is synthesizing a crime by invalidating registrations if SB-23 features are added to registered Category 4 rifles. However, registration DOES NOT apply during the 90 day "forgiveness" period. Therefore, in theory an off-list lower could exist as a fully operation AR-15 with detachable magazine during the 90 days and even be registered while in that configuration. Interesting isn't it?

megavolt121
03-03-2006, 12:56 AM
If you get run over by a bus, your family can't take possession of it in CA; instead, your probate attorney has (??) 90 days to legally sell it, move it out of state, etc.


I believe you can have another member of your family that resides in the same house as you, also be put on the AW registration. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

tenpercentfirearms
03-03-2006, 5:33 AM
Do not buy one of these if you just intend to break the law and not register it. If that were your intent, why not just go buy a listed lower and break the law that way? Leave our unlisted lowers out of it. We don't need that kind of publicity. Depending on where you bought your lower at, they might already have your name down.

Mr.RoDiN
03-03-2006, 1:27 PM
exactly. Why buy an off list lower then break the law?

xrMike
03-03-2006, 1:32 PM
No way I would ever do anything that could result in a felony, and thereby jeapordize my right to own firearms for the rest of my life...

The horror!

RedBluff
03-03-2006, 6:48 PM
Simmer down folks, I asked the question because someone told me, "that's what I would do".
But it didn't take long to realize that, that person knows very little about gun law. I have a wife and 2 little ones and I'll be danged if I'm going to put them thru that! Again Thanks for the input, it is very appreciated.