PDA

View Full Version : Rifle transfer, need help


ulpian
04-28-2010, 9:28 PM
Hello everyone

I purchase a Springfield Armory M1A from a gun owner in SoCal. He is not a FFL holder, but he legally owned the rifle. Is it require by law that he need to send the rifle thru a FFL to my FFL? Or he can ship the rifle himself to my FFL. Also, where in the law allow/disallow him to do that?

I ask because my FFL giving me problem the gun not ship by a FFL and refuse to start the paperwork.

Thanks in advance.

telcolineman
04-28-2010, 9:38 PM
It is legal for the registered owner to ship it to your FFL, All he needs is a copy of his drivers license and of course make sure your FFL is good with that. Some are kind of pickey, Call around and see who will accept it. Where are you located? Pm me and I may be able to give you a few names of FFL's

ulpian
04-28-2010, 9:45 PM
I can understand the FFL refuse to accept gun from individual, but the seller got the OK from the gun shop before he ship the gun.

paul0660
04-28-2010, 9:57 PM
Good, no problem then.......................right?

ulpian
04-28-2010, 10:23 PM
Nope, the seller got the ok to ship, now the the gun is here and the gun shop giving me hard time.

Plisk
04-28-2010, 10:31 PM
It is legal for the registered owner to ship it to your FFL, All he needs is a copy of his drivers license and of course make sure your FFL is good with that. Some are kind of pickey, Call around and see who will accept it. Where are you located? Pm me and I may be able to give you a few names of FFL's

Correct, just one thing to add. The FFL requires an enlarged, color copy to be sent with the gun to the receiving FFL. We've had a lot of bad luck with faxed copies coming out illegible, its not recommended.

Mssr. Eleganté
04-28-2010, 10:32 PM
Nope, the seller got the ok to ship, now the the gun is here and the gun shop giving me hard time.

What do you mean by hard time? What does your local FFL want?

ulpian
04-28-2010, 10:36 PM
They now refuse to process the paper work(DROS?) and threat to turn over the Gun to the Police.

Mssr. Eleganté
04-28-2010, 10:44 PM
They now refuse to process the paper work(DROS?) and threat to turn over the Gun to the Police.

Do they give you a reason for this? Did they say why they told the guy he could ship it to them? Are they claiming the guy did something illegal?

halifax
04-28-2010, 10:54 PM
Is the FFL claiming the M1A is not configured correctly for CA?

ulpian
04-29-2010, 6:13 AM
They claim it is illegle for the seller to ship the gun. No, the M1A just like any other plain Jane M1A, muzzle break, 10 rounds mag, factory stock.

chansen49
04-29-2010, 6:18 AM
Show the guy some M1a pics and tell him to pull his head out. Tell him the local police probably dont want to waste their time with bogus calls..

Plisk
04-29-2010, 11:07 AM
They claim it is illegle for the seller to ship the gun. No, the M1A just like any other plain Jane M1A, muzzle break, 10 rounds mag, factory stock.

Tell the FFL to call DOJ and ATF and get their say on it.

twinjetguy
04-29-2010, 11:13 AM
I just spoke with a FFL about this same thing yesterday. He told me that it is illegal for the original owner to ship the gun to the gun store. It has to be shipped from FFL to another FFL. The only legal way for an indvidual to ship a gun is if he is shipping it directly to the manufacturer of said gun.

Now if they told you it's ok for the guy to ship to their shop, and now they are changing their tune, that would be a problem. Do you remember who at the shop you had it delivered to said that this was ok to do?

Jicko
04-29-2010, 11:18 AM
Who is the FFL?

Ask him to call up DOJ. (or call DOJ yourself when you are there and pass him the phone after you got an answer from DOJ)

Done.

ulpian
04-29-2010, 1:30 PM
Update:
I just got off the phone with DOJ, they told me it is OK/legal for a individual to ship the rifle to a FFL for a firearms transfer. All the seller need is to include a copy of his ID/Driver Lic. with the rifle. I asked if the seller is non FFL holder, is it ok for him to ship the firearms to a FFL for transfer? Or he need to ship the firearms thru his FFL to my FFL. The DOJ told me it is not necessary for him to ship the firearms thru FFL. And he can ship the firearms with any common carrier (USPS/FedEx/etc.) to my FFL for a firearms transfer.

IF this FFL refuse to do the paper work, can this FFL ship the gun to another FFL in the area to do the transfer?

This is the first time I use this dealer, and I'm pretty sure it will be the last. They are not exactly rude or anything, but they sure don't know what they are talking about.

ulpian
04-29-2010, 1:40 PM
I just spoke with a FFL about this same thing yesterday. He told me that it is illegal for the original owner to ship the gun to the gun store. It has to be shipped from FFL to another FFL. The only legal way for an indvidual to ship a gun is if he is shipping it directly to the manufacturer of said gun.


Look at my last post above, I spend about 20min on the phone with CA DOJ, and they told me it is legal to ship rifle to a FFL for transfer. The condition is the seller/sender must be legal owner of the gun, the sender/seller must include a photo copy of his ID/Driver Lic. with the firearms, and the recipient must be able to legally receive the firearms, ie a FFL holder.

twinjetguy
04-29-2010, 1:46 PM
You know, the CA gun laws drive me absolutely insane! They are so twisted no one knows which way is up.

So if the DOJ says that it is legal for the individual to ship a firearm directly to a FFL, does that only apply to the state of CA? I want to sell one of my firearms to my friend up on Oregon. I just spoke with the FFL in OR and he told me that he is pretty sure that it is legal for me to ship the firearm myself directly to him.

Anyone care to expand on this if they have info?

CSACANNONEER
04-29-2010, 1:55 PM
You know, the CA gun laws drive me absolutely insane! They are so twisted no one knows which way is up.

So if the DOJ says that it is legal for the individual to ship a firearm directly to a FFL, does that only apply to the state of CA? I want to sell one of my firearms to my friend up on Oregon. I just spoke with the FFL in OR and he told me that he is pretty sure that it is legal for me to ship the firearm myself directly to him.

Anyone care to expand on this if they have info?

It is perfectly legal for a non-FFL to ship a gun to a FFL in any state. BUT, many FFLs will not accept firearms shipped from non-FFLs. It is perfectly legal for them to conduct their bussiness this way too. So, you need to shop around for a FFL who is willing to receive your firearm.

Jicko
04-29-2010, 2:03 PM
Update:
I just got off the phone with DOJ, they told me it is OK/legal for a individual to ship the rifle to a FFL for a firearms transfer. All the seller need is to include a copy of his ID/Driver Lic. with the rifle. I asked if the seller is non FFL holder, is it ok for him to ship the firearms to a FFL for transfer? Or he need to ship the firearms thru his FFL to my FFL. The DOJ told me it is not necessary for him to ship the firearms thru FFL. And he can ship the firearms with any common carrier (USPS/FedEx/etc.) to my FFL for a firearms transfer.

IF this FFL refuse to do the paper work, can this FFL ship the gun to another FFL in the area to do the transfer?

This is the first time I use this dealer, and I'm pretty sure it will be the last. They are not exactly rude or anything, but they sure don't know what they are talking about.

Go to the FFL, and call up DOJ again. And have DOJ tell the FFL that it is OK.

Again, who is this FFL???

dieselpower
04-29-2010, 2:05 PM
You know, the CA gun laws drive me absolutely insane! They are so twisted no one knows which way is up.

So if the DOJ says that it is legal for the individual to ship a firearm directly to a FFL, does that only apply to the state of CA? I want to sell one of my firearms to my friend up on Oregon. I just spoke with the FFL in OR and he told me that he is pretty sure that it is legal for me to ship the firearm myself directly to him.

Anyone care to expand on this if they have info?

Sorry, but there is no twisted law here. There is only twisted FFL holders and gun shop FUD.

The law is clear.
If you are buying a firearm from a DEALER, the DEALER must ship via FFL to another FFL.

If you are buying a firearm from an owner, the OWNER can ship to the FFL.

Dumb-*** FUD gun shops don't read the law, nor do they want to. They operate on FUD heard from a friend of a friends brother's sisters who once dated a Police officer.

ulpian
04-29-2010, 2:58 PM
totally agree, the law is clear. But it seems like a lot of dealer / gun shop worker have no clear understand of the law and make it up as they go. Yes, the FFL have the right to refuse service to anyone. But, in this case the dealer gave the OK to ship the gun and now refuse to process it.

TERRYGER
04-29-2010, 4:05 PM
It is perfectly legal for a non-FFL to ship a gun to a FFL in any state. BUT, many FFLs will not accept firearms shipped from non-FFLs. It is perfectly legal for them to conduct their bussiness this way too. So, you need to shop around for a FFL who is willing to receive your firearm.

this is the correct answer!

this should have beeen stated clearly by the ffl BEFORE the shippping was made.

now what is the next step. my answer would be if the ffl refuses to accept shipments from pp then they should return in to sender. they have not taken posession according to them. tell them to ship it back or YOU will call the doj and inform them of the ffl situtation.

twinjetguy
04-29-2010, 5:21 PM
Go to the FFL, and call up DOJ again. And have DOJ tell the FFL that it is OK.

Again, who is this FFL???

Hey Guys,

Ok, I totally admit the law is clear. I wasn't informed and I was trying to find out for myself (FUD). As for my local FFL that gave me FUD, I am not going to throw them under the bus. They are good guys and mistakes can happen. Especially when it comes to this topic. IMO, it doesn't hurt to ask around, sure you might get some wrong answers here and there, but we all make mistakes right? The way I see it, the answer they gave me was leaning towards the side of covering their a** which I can't blame them for.

I'm glad that I read this thread. Thanks for all the info guys, really appreciate it. To the OP, thanks for calling the DOJ and finding out for yourself. I was just too lazy to do it :p

limitdown
04-29-2010, 9:39 PM
Steps:
1) Tell your FFL to ship it back to the original owner
2) Find another local FFL that will accept shipments directly from the original owner
3) Tell the original owner to ship it to your new local FFL

You'll eat it a bit on the shipping cost, but it's well worth it to avoid any more hassles/delays

Mssr. Eleganté
04-29-2010, 9:48 PM
Steps:
1) Tell your FFL to ship it back to the original owner

I was going to suggest that back when it seemed like the FFL just didn't want to accept a firearm shipment from a non-FFL as a matter of company policy. But if the FFL thinks it is illegal for a non-FFL to ship a firearm, then he probably thinks it is illegal for an FFL to ship a firearm back to its owner.

Veggie
04-29-2010, 10:52 PM
Idiots.