PDA

View Full Version : laws on powder storage in residence?


mzimmers
04-28-2010, 1:37 PM
Hi -

I found this page on the ATF site:

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2002-3.html

If I'm reading it correctly, it appears that storage of powder within a magazine is prohibited. So...who can tell me how we are supposed to store powder?

PoofNoEyebrows
04-28-2010, 1:46 PM
Apparently they consider quite a few things explosive:

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

COMMERCE IN EXPLOSIVES

Commerce in Explosives; List of Explosive Materials



Updated: 4/26/02

Pursuant to the provisions of section 841(d) of title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), and 27 CFR 55.23, the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, must publish and revise at least annually in the Federal Register a list of explosives determined to be within the coverage of 18 U.S.C. chapter 40, Importation, Manufacture, Distribution, and Storage of Explosive Materials. This chapter covers not only explosives, but also blasting agents and detonators, all of which are defined as explosive materials in section 841(c) of title 18, U.S.C. Accordingly, the following is the 2002 List of Explosive Materials subject to regulation under 18 U.S.C. chapter 40. It includes both the list of explosives (including detonators) required to be published in the Federal Register and blasting agents.

The list is intended to include any and all mixtures containing any of the materials on the list. Materials constituting blasting agents are marked by an asterisk. While the list is comprehensive, it is not all inclusive. The fact that an explosive material may not be on the list does not mean that it is not within the coverage of the law if it otherwise meets the statutory definitions in section 841 of title 18, U.S.C. Explosive materials are listed alphabetically by their common names followed, where applicable, by chemical names and synonyms in brackets.

In the 2002 List of Explosive Materials, ATF has added five terms to the list of explosives, has further defined two explosive materials, and has made amendments to two explosive materials to more accurately reference these materials.


The five additions to the list are as follows:
1. Azide explosives
2. HMTD [hexamethylenetriperoxidediamine]
3. Nitrate explosive mixtures
4. Picrate explosives
5. TATP [triacetonetriperoxide]

We have added these explosive materials to the List because their primary or common purpose is to function by explosion. ATF has encountered the criminal use of some of these materials in improvised devices. ``Nitrate explosive mixtures'' is intended to be an all-encompassing term, including all forms of sodium, potassium, barium, calcium, and strontium nitrate explosive mixtures.

The two explosive materials that we have further defined by including their chemical names are listed as follows:

1. DIPAM [dipicramide; diaminohexanitrobiphenyl]
2. EDNA [ethylenedinitramine]

The two amendments to previously listed explosive materials are as follows:


1. ``Nitrates of soda explosive mixtures'' has been deleted and replaced with ``Sodium nitrate explosive mixtures'' to reflect current terminology.

2. PBX was previously defined as ``RDX and plasticizer.'' We are changing the definition to reflect that PBX is an acronym for ``plastic bonded explosive.''

This revised list supersedes the List of Explosive Materials dated September 14, 1999 (Notice No. 880, 64 FR 49840; correction notice of September 28, 1999, 64 FR 52378) and will be effective on April 26, 2002.

List of Explosive Materials

A

Acetylides of heavy metals.
Aluminum containing polymeric propellant.
Aluminum ophorite explosive.
Amatex.
Amatol.
Ammonal.
Ammonium nitrate explosive mixtures (cap sensitive).
*Ammonium nitrate explosive mixtures (non-cap sensitive).
Ammonium perchlorate composite propellant.
Ammonium perchlorate explosive mixtures.
Ammonium picrate [picrate of ammonia, Explosive D].
Ammonium salt lattice with isomorphously substituted inorganic salts.
*ANFO [ammonium nitrate-fuel oil].
Aromatic nitro-compound explosive mixtures.
Azide explosives.

B

Baranol.
Baratol.
BEAF [1, 2-bis (2, 2-difluoro-2-nitroacetoxyethane)].
Black powder.
Black powder based explosive mixtures.
*Blasting agents, nitro-carbo-nitrates, including non-cap sensitive slurry and water gel explosives.
Blasting caps.
Blasting gelatin.
Blasting powder.
BTNEC [bis (trinitroethyl) carbonate].
BTNEN [bis (trinitroethyl) nitramine].
BTTN [1,2,4 butanetriol trinitrate].
Bulk salutes.
Butyl tetryl.

C

Calcium nitrate explosive mixture.
Cellulose hexanitrate explosive mixture.
Chlorate explosive mixtures.
Composition A and variations.
Composition B and variations.
Composition C and variations.
Copper acetylide.
Cyanuric triazide.
Cyclonite [RDX].
Cyclotetramethylenetetranitramine [HMX].
Cyclotol.
Cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine [RDX].

D

DATB [diaminotrinitrobenzene].
DDNP [diazodinitrophenol].
DEGDN [diethyleneglycol dinitrate].
Detonating cord.
Detonators.
Dimethylol dimethyl methane dinitrate composition.
Dinitroethyleneurea.
Dinitroglycerine [glycerol dinitrate].
Dinitrophenol.
Dinitrophenolates.
Dinitrophenyl hydrazine.
Dinitroresorcinol.
Dinitrotoluene-sodium nitrate explosive mixtures.
DIPAM [dipicramide; diaminohexanitrobiphenyl].
Dipicryl sulfone.
Dipicrylamine.
Display fireworks.
DNPA [2,2-dinitropropyl acrylate].
DNPD [dinitropentano nitrile].
Dynamite.

E

EDDN [ethylene diamine dinitrate].
EDNA [ethylenedinitramine].
Ednatol.
EDNP [ethyl 4,4-dinitropentanoate].
EGDN [ethylene glycol dinitrate].
Erythritol tetranitrate explosives.
Esters of nitro-substituted alcohols.
Ethyl-tetryl.
Explosive conitrates.
Explosive gelatins.
Explosive liquids.
Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and hydrocarbons.
Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and nitro bodies.
Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and water insoluble fuels.
Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and water soluble fuels.
Explosive mixtures containing sensitized nitromethane.
Explosive mixtures containing tetranitromethane (nitroform).
Explosive nitro compounds of aromatic hydrocarbons.
Explosive organic nitrate mixtures.
Explosive powders.

F

Flash powder.
Fulminate of mercury.
Fulminate of silver.
Fulminating gold.
Fulminating mercury.
Fulminating platinum.
Fulminating silver.

G

Gelatinized nitrocellulose.
Gem-dinitro aliphatic explosive mixtures.
Guanyl nitrosamino guanyl tetrazene.
Guanyl nitrosamino guanylidene hydrazine.
Guncotton.

H

Heavy metal azides.
Hexanite.
Hexanitrodiphenylamine.
Hexanitrostilbene.
Hexogen [RDX].
Hexogene or octogene and a nitrated N-methylaniline.
Hexolites.
HMTD [hexamethylenetriperoxidediamine].
HMX [cyclo-1,3,5,7-tetramethylene 2,4,6,8-tetranitramine; Octogen].
Hydrazinium nitrate/hydrazine/aluminum explosive system.
Hydrazoic acid.

I

Igniter cord.
Igniters.
Initiating tube systems.

K

KDNBF [potassium dinitrobenzo-furoxane].

[[Page 20866]]

L

Lead azide.
Lead mannite.
Lead mononitroresorcinate.
Lead picrate.
Lead salts, explosive.
Lead styphnate [styphnate of lead, lead trinitroresorcinate].
Liquid nitrated polyol and trimethylolethane.
Liquid oxygen explosives.

M

Magnesium ophorite explosives.
Mannitol hexanitrate.
MDNP [methyl 4,4-dinitropentanoate].
MEAN [monoethanolamine nitrate].
Mercuric fulminate.
Mercury oxalate.
Mercury tartrate.
Metriol trinitrate.
Minol-2 [40% TNT, 40% ammonium nitrate, 20% aluminum].
MMAN [monomethylamine nitrate]; methylamine nitrate.
Mononitrotoluene-nitroglycerin mixture.
Monopropellants.

N

NIBTN [nitroisobutametriol trinitrate].
Nitrate explosive mixtures.
Nitrate sensitized with gelled nitroparaffin.
Nitrated carbohydrate explosive.
Nitrated glucoside explosive.
Nitrated polyhydric alcohol explosives.
Nitric acid and a nitro aromatic compound explosive.
Nitric acid and carboxylic fuel explosive.
Nitric acid explosive mixtures.
Nitro aromatic explosive mixtures.
Nitro compounds of furane explosive mixtures.
Nitrocellulose explosive.
Nitroderivative of urea explosive mixture.
Nitrogelatin explosive.
Nitrogen trichloride.
Nitrogen tri-iodide.
Nitroglycerine [NG, RNG, nitro, glyceryl trinitrate,
trinitroglycerine].
Nitroglycide.
Nitroglycol [ethylene glycol dinitrate, EGDN].
Nitroguanidine explosives.
Nitronium perchlorate propellant mixtures.
Nitroparaffins Explosive Grade and ammonium nitrate mixtures.
Nitrostarch.
Nitro-substituted carboxylic acids.
Nitrourea.

PoofNoEyebrows
04-28-2010, 1:47 PM
Cont.

O

Octogen [HMX].
Octol [75 percent HMX, 25 percent TNT].
Organic amine nitrates.
Organic nitramines.

P

PBX [plastic bonded explosives].
Pellet powder.
Penthrinite composition.
Pentolite.
Perchlorate explosive mixtures.
Peroxide based explosive mixtures.
PETN [nitropentaerythrite, pentaerythrite tetranitrate, pentaerythritol
tetranitrate].
Picramic acid and its salts.
Picramide.
Picrate explosives.
Picrate of potassium explosive mixtures.
Picratol.
Picric acid (manufactured as an explosive).
Picryl chloride.
Picryl fluoride.
PLX [95% nitromethane, 5% ethylenediamine].
Polynitro aliphatic compounds.
Polyolpolynitrate-nitrocellulose explosive gels.
Potassium chlorate and lead sulfocyanate explosive.
Potassium nitrate explosive mixtures.
Potassium nitroaminotetrazole.
Pyrotechnic compositions.
PYX [2,6-bis(picrylamino)]-3,5-dinitropyridine.

R

RDX [cyclonite, hexogen, T4, cyclo-1,3,5,-trimethylene-2,4,6,-trinitramine; hexahydro-1,3,5-trinitro-S-triazine].

S

Safety fuse.
Salts of organic amino sulfonic acid explosive mixture.
Salutes (bulk).
Silver acetylide.
Silver azide.
Silver fulminate.
Silver oxalate explosive mixtures.
Silver styphnate.
Silver tartrate explosive mixtures.
Silver tetrazene.
Slurried explosive mixtures of water, inorganic oxidizing salt, gelling
agent, fuel, and sensitizer (cap sensitive).
Smokeless powder.
Sodatol.
Sodium amatol.
Sodium azide explosive mixture.
Sodium dinitro-ortho-cresolate.
Sodium nitrate explosive mixtures.
Sodium nitrate-potassium nitrate explosive mixture.
Sodium picramate.
Special fireworks.
Squibs.
Styphnic acid explosives.

T

Tacot [tetranitro-2,3,5,6-dibenzo- 1,3a,4,6a tetrazapentalene].
TATB [triaminotrinitrobenzene].
TATP [triacetonetriperoxide].
TEGDN [triethylene glycol dinitrate].
Tetranitrocarbazole.
Tetrazene [tetracene, tetrazine, 1(5-tetrazolyl)-4-guanyl tetrazene
hydrate].
Tetryl [2,4,6 tetranitro-N-methylaniline].
Tetrytol.
Thickened inorganic oxidizer salt slurried explosive mixture.
TMETN [trimethylolethane trinitrate].
TNEF [trinitroethyl formal].
TNEOC [trinitroethylorthocarbonate].
TNEOF [trinitroethylorthoformate].
TNT [trinitrotoluene, trotyl, trilite, triton].
Torpex.
Tridite.
Trimethylol ethyl methane trinitrate composition.
Trimethylolthane trinitrate-nitrocellulose.
Trimonite.
Trinitroanisole.
Trinitrobenzene.
Trinitrobenzoic acid.
Trinitrocresol.
Trinitro-meta-cresol.
Trinitronaphthalene.
Trinitrophenetol.
Trinitrophloroglucinol.
Trinitroresorcinol.
Tritonal.

U

Urea nitrate.

W

Water-bearing explosives having salts of oxidizing acids and nitrogen bases, sulfates, or sulfamates (cap sensitive).

Water-in-oil emulsion explosive compositions.

X

Xanthamonas hydrophilic colloid explosive mixture.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Chad Yoder, ATF Specialist, Arson and Explosives Programs Division, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, 650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW., Washington, DC 20226 (202-927-7930).

Signed: April 19, 2002.
Bradley A. Buckles,
Director.
[FR Doc. 02-10324 Filed 4-25-02; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4810-31-P

Mikeb
04-28-2010, 4:18 PM
What? since when is it illegal to have black powder? I can buy it at the store, I can't take it home? Illegal to make? Then that willow tree is toast.
I thought you could have 5 lbs most places and not more than 50 lbs other places with out a magazine.
Hmmm
Mike

GrizzlyGuy
04-28-2010, 4:46 PM
In the FAQ: How much gunpowder can I store in my home? (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#How_much_gunpowder_can_I_store_in_my_home.3F)

Background info here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=723016&postcount=29).

383green
04-28-2010, 5:54 PM
Per state law, you may possess up to 20 lbs of smokeless powder and up to 1 lb of black powder. However, your local city or county ordinances may impose additional limits.

That's neat. Black powder comes in 1-pound bottles/cans, you may possess up to one pound, and it's often necessary to have more than one type of black powder (such as different grain sizes for the chamber and pan of a flintlock). Uh....

singleshotman
04-28-2010, 9:10 PM
See old posts about this two years ago, this is WRONG.Limit is 5 pounds of BP,other wise why would they sell me more than one pound at a time? I've bought two pounds of it at a gunstore several times.

cowboyup
04-28-2010, 10:28 PM
TAG

383green
04-28-2010, 10:34 PM
TAG

That was insightful. :rolleyes:

joelogic
04-28-2010, 10:40 PM
You dont have to tag. Top right, thread tools, subscribe to thread.

CSACANNONEER
04-28-2010, 10:41 PM
See old posts about this two years ago, this is WRONG.Limit is 5 pounds of BP,other wise why would they sell me more than one pound at a time? I've bought two pounds of it at a gunstore several times.

UPS will deliver 25lb cases straight to your house. Does that mean you are wrong and there is a 25lb limit on storage?

BTW, I think there is a law that restricts you to transporting no more than one pound in a vehicle.

mzimmers
04-29-2010, 5:40 AM
Good information, guys, but...I'm still looking for the specific storage requirements. I have a hazy memory of needing a 3/4" thick wooden box fastened with non-ferrous metals, but I was hoping someone could refresh my memory.

cdtx2001
04-29-2010, 5:58 AM
Where's the Iroodium PU38 Explosive Space Modulators?

GrizzlyGuy
04-29-2010, 6:31 AM
See old posts about this two years ago, this is WRONG.Limit is 5 pounds of BP,other wise why would they sell me more than one pound at a time? I've bought two pounds of it at a gunstore several times.

Most likely because they didn't know the law. Gun stores are notoriously bad for getting gun laws wrong. Here is the law (http://law.onecle.com/california/health/12102.html):

This chapter does not apply to any possession or use of 20
pounds or less of smokeless powder, or one pound or less of black
sporting powder, provided that:
(a) Smokeless powder is intended only for hand loading of small
arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(b) Black sporting powder is intended for loading of small arms or
small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(c) All such powder is for private use and not for resale, and, in
the case of black sporting powder, there shall be no gift, delivery,
or other disposition to another person.
(d) The storage, use and handling of such smokeless and black
powder conforms to rules, regulations, or ordinances of authorities
having jurisdiction for fire prevention and suppression in the area
of such storage, use, and handling of such explosives.

You can exceed those limits if you have a special permit (http://law.onecle.com/california/health/12101.html):

(a) No person shall do any one of the following without
first having made application for and received a permit in accordance
with this section:
(1) Manufacture explosives.
(2) Sell, furnish, or give away explosives.
(3) Receive, store, or possess explosives.
(4) Transport explosives.
(5) Use explosives.
(6) Operate a terminal for handling explosives.
(7) Park or leave standing any vehicle carrying explosives, except
when parked or left standing in or at a safe stopping place
designated as such by the Department of the California Highway Patrol
under Division 14 (commencing with Section 31600) of the Vehicle
Code.

RUM
04-29-2010, 10:10 AM
Is the 20# limit per person or per residence?? What if you have two different houses?

GrizzlyGuy
04-29-2010, 10:49 AM
Good information, guys, but...I'm still looking for the specific storage requirements. I have a hazy memory of needing a 3/4" thick wooden box fastened with non-ferrous metals, but I was hoping someone could refresh my memory.

You'll need to check your local ordinances and codes. For storage, the state's Health and Safety Code (http://law.justia.com/california/codes/hsc/12080-12092.html) just says:

The building standards adopted and submitted for approval pursuant
to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 18935) of Part 2.5 of Division
13 and the other regulations adopted by the State Fire Marshal shall
do all of the following...

c) Make reasonable allowances for the storage of gunpowder for
commercial and private use. No allowance, however, shall be made for
storage facilities which constitute a distinct hazard to life and
property, nor shall any allowance be made for storage facilities
wherein proper safeguards for the control and security of explosives
cannot be maintained.

Falstaff
04-29-2010, 11:59 AM
I store 5lbs of pyrodex in my Liberty safe. There is a magnetic sign on the outside strongly discouraging the use of a torch to open safe....

CHS
04-29-2010, 1:31 PM
FYI: Pyrodex and other black powder substitutes ARE NOT considered black powder. They are considered smokeless propellants.

So they would fall under the 20lb restriction and NOT the 1lb restriction.

Mikeb
04-29-2010, 4:05 PM
OK Hypothetically I might know someone that might have a quarter bore (1.00" ) swivel gun. So if he needed a lb of 2 1/2 Elephant BP to shoot that thing he'd be a criminal?
Just sayin"
Mike

CSACANNONEER
04-29-2010, 8:25 PM
OK Hypothetically I might know someone that might have a quarter bore (1.00" ) swivel gun. So if he needed a lb of 2 1/2 Elephant BP to shoot that thing he'd be a criminal?
Just sayin"
Mike

Where are you finding Elephant these days?

Mikeb
04-30-2010, 11:23 AM
Where are you finding Elephant these days?

Well I think that sort of hypothetical device would be more of thing to repel boarders. Actually a few years ago there was a lot of talk about port defense. I thought they said porch defense so... well never mind.
But the idea that Black powder can only be used to shoot sporting arms .75 or smaller just doesn't seem right. I mean there are a lot of folk that shoot golf balls beer cans full of cement and bowling balls. Not to mention full size cannons. And one pound? how many shots out of a bowling ball mortar do you get for one pound. And I saw a web site by a guy that hunted feral cats with bowling balls... that's sporting isn't it?
take care
Mike

Mikeb
04-30-2010, 1:17 PM
OK I knew you wanted to see the cat hunting site.
WARNING THIS SITE IS NOT FOR CAT FANCIERS

http://www.buckstix.com/CoehornMortarHunt.htm

take care
Mike