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scifi
04-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Hello,
I just bought a new M&P 45 in Dark Earth. Love the gun, but I have question. I live in California and this gun doesnít have a mag safety. The gun was bought in Calif from a local store. When I got home I was dry firing it and found the trigger would click even if the mag was out. I called the store and they said to take it to the range and test it. Well this weekend I did that and with a round in the chamber and the mag out it fires. It also has writing on the slide saying it will fire if the mag is removed.So my question is does anyone know what the legal ramifications are in me having this gun? I donít care one way or the other if it has the mag safety. I just donít any issues with the law.
Thanks

sk8804
04-28-2010, 10:24 AM
Hello,
I just bought a new M&P 45 in Dark Earth. Love the gun, but I have question. I live in California and this gun doesnít have a mag safety. The gun was bought in Calif from a local store. When I got home I was dry firing it and found the trigger would click even if the mag was out. I called the store and they said to take it to the range and test it. Well this weekend I did that and with a round in the chamber and the mag out it fires. It also has writing on the slide saying it will fire if the mag is removed.So my question is does anyone know what the legal ramifications are in me having this gun? I donít care one way or the other if it has the mag safety. I just donít any issues with the law.
Thanks

having the disconnect safety removed is perfectly legal on a ca gun as is buying the model you have from an leo used. So it is not illegal for you to have the gun. if anything it would be the store that is in trouble. I would however be concerned if you have hi cap mags, as those are illegal, in your possession.

missiondude
04-28-2010, 10:26 AM
Be happy that you have a gun without the mag safety. I hate the feature, and have disabled it on several of my handguns. You did nothing wrong, so dont worry and just enjoy it. If you dont like the gun without the feature, I am sure the dealer will take it back, as he sold you a gun that is not on the roster...

quig
04-28-2010, 11:04 AM
Was this a model that was approved before the requirement was in place?

Old Timer
04-28-2010, 11:39 AM
The law took effect January 1, 2007. If the gun was sold prior to that date it was legal then and still is.

quig
04-28-2010, 12:05 PM
The law took effect January 1, 2007. If the gun was sold prior to that date it was legal then and still is.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought if the model was on the roster before that said date, then they can continue to manufacture the same model on the old standards. I will use XD's as an example; they do not have the disconnect, but are still available for purchase. VS, the XDm which was developed after the law was in place and can't get on the roster without putting in the disconnect (and 10rd mag, but a different issue).

Again, correct me if I am wrong. But using this rational, if M&P's were avail before this date, couldn't they countinue to manufacture and sell under the pre-2007 standards?

sk8804
04-28-2010, 1:05 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought if the model was on the roster before that said date, then they can continue to manufacture the same model on the old standards. I will use XD's as an example; they do not have the disconnect, but are still available for purchase. VS, the XDm which was developed after the law was in place and can't get on the roster without putting in the disconnect (and 10rd mag, but a different issue).

Again, correct me if I am wrong. But using this rational, if M&P's were avail before this date, couldn't they countinue to manufacture and sell under the pre-2007 standards?

Yes, but only if the company keeps paying to have the gun put on the list and tested. if they dont pay for the gun to be on the list once its date expires, then they have to do it all over again and comply to new rules. Take a glock for example. Most Glocks don't have to have disconnects because they never did let them fall off the list. Hope this is easily understood the way I worded it.

missiondude
04-28-2010, 1:22 PM
The important part of his story is that he bought it from a store (FFL). It does not matter if the gun is new, or made before changes were adopted on the roster, or made before the roster even came into being, the gun has to comply with the current roster as it was sold through a dealer (FFL). This is why off list guns have to be sold via PPT. Again, he would not be the one in any trouble, the FFL would if there was any issue with the DOJ. I have actually seen an employee at a gun store try to find a gun on the list that was not there due to lacking the magazine safety, ask the manager for assistance and be told to just enter one that is on the list. It happened to be a M&P as well. S&W M&P's are listed on the roster by features, but sold by a product number, and that is where the confusion comes from.

The Dark Earth 45 listed has both a thumb and mag safety...

M&P 45 (Black/Mag.& Thumb Safety) / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.5" .45 ACP 1/31/2011
M&P 45 (Mag. Safety & Thumb Safety) Dark Earth Bro / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.5" .45 ACP 2/12/2011
M&P 45 (Mag. Safety) / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.5" .45 ACP 1/31/2011

socalblue
04-28-2010, 1:24 PM
M&P trigger will "click" even with the magazine out. Cycle the action & put in an empty magazine, then try the trigger. Any difference?

An M&P manufactured without the disconnect will have a warning notice on the slide. Something like "Will fire with magazine removed".

sk8804
04-28-2010, 1:30 PM
M&P trigger will "click" even with the magazine out. Cycle the action & put in an empty magazine, then try the trigger. Any difference?

An M&P manufactured without the disconnect will have a warning notice on the slide. Something like "Will fire with magazine removed".

I called the store and they said to take it to the range and test it. Well this weekend I did that and with a round in the chamber and the mag out it fires. It also has writing on the slide saying it will fire if the mag is removed.So my question is does anyone know what the legal ramifications are in me having this gun?
Quoted from the First post.

Bill Carson
04-28-2010, 1:35 PM
None. You are good to go.

sk8804
04-28-2010, 1:50 PM
Can you please cite the Penal Code violation for a person POSSESSING a large capacity magazine? I can't seem to find any such CA law. There is a law restricting manufacturing, importing into the state, selling, giving/lending. More of a problem for a seller than an unwitting buyer in state. Even so, there are several exemptions to the law in subsections 19-32.

From the Penal Code http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=12001-13000&file=12020-12040

12020 (a) (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

i don't have a quote but might be able to find one. Acquiring them after 2000 is illegal. if you had them before 00 then you are ok. An m&p hi cap mag would be a dead giveaway that you got it after 00 because the mp didn't exist until after 00.

sk8804
04-28-2010, 1:58 PM
here you go:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.
...
(c) (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

socalblue
04-28-2010, 3:00 PM
I called the store and they said to take it to the range and test it. Well this weekend I did that and with a round in the chamber and the mag out it fires. It also has writing on the slide saying it will fire if the mag is removed.So my question is does anyone know what the legal ramifications are in me having this gun?
Quoted from the First post.

You have a LEO pistol - good for you! Bad on the FFL but you have ZERO to worry about.

Make sure to send in your rebate to get the two magazines or $50 too.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=755502&sectionId=10002

AMDG
04-28-2010, 4:10 PM
here you go:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.
...
(c) (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

sk8804, use the search function and look at any of the many threads on this. Possession is not regulated. If you buy a gun at an FFL and get home to find +10 capacity mags with it, its like winning the lotto. You've got them, possession is legal, and you didn't break any laws obtaining them (e.i., manufacture, importation, etc.).

sk8804
04-28-2010, 5:13 PM
sk8804, use the search function and look at any of the many threads on this. Possession is not regulated. If you buy a gun at an FFL and get home to find +10 capacity mags with it, its like winning the lotto. You've got them, possession is legal, and you didn't break any laws obtaining them (e.i., manufacture, importation, etc.).

ah ha, i misunderstood with respects to the fact that obtaining them through dealer error would be legal.

RT13
04-28-2010, 6:06 PM
Sounds like you got a good one there. I hate restrictions of any kind. Consider yourself lucky. You're gtg and enjoy that bad boy.

j6p2004
04-28-2010, 10:47 PM
There is no factory hi-cap mag for the m&p45.

Old Timer
04-29-2010, 5:17 AM
I have one of the first M&P .40s without the mag disconnect and with the warning on the right side of the frame. I bought the gun after January 1, 2007, but it was already on the list and S&W has not allowed it to expire so it will remain legal until S&W lets it expire (which would be pretty dumb for them to do). I would assume the same applies to the .45.

missiondude
04-29-2010, 7:09 AM
I have one of the first M&P .40s without the mag disconnect and with the warning on the right side of the frame. I bought the gun after January 1, 2007, but it was already on the list and S&W has not allowed it to expire so it will remain legal until S&W lets it expire (which would be pretty dumb for them to do). I would assume the same applies to the .45.

Show me where there are any M&P's on the list that do not have a mag safety as a listed feature. There are certainly guns in the state without them, some former LEO guns, and some dealer errors, but the list guns all have the mag safety.

ruchik
04-29-2010, 7:16 AM
Hang on. So it's actually legal to remove the mag disconnect from a non-LEO M&P in California?

Legasat
04-29-2010, 7:59 AM
Enjoy it. Quit worrying.

You bought an great pistol. Get your two free extra mags!!!

trendar5
04-29-2010, 11:56 AM
M&P trigger will "click" even with the magazine out. Cycle the action & put in an empty magazine, then try the trigger. Any difference?

An M&P manufactured without the disconnect will have a warning notice on the slide. Something like "Will fire with magazine removed".

Did you read his thread? He said it has the writing on it, and he fired a round with the mag out.

Twistedsteel
04-29-2010, 5:09 PM
Enjoy it. Quit worrying.

You bought an great pistol. Get your two free extra mags!!!

How do you get the free mags without being leo? Do they just go by serial number? I also got lucky and got a off roster M&P, I got a brand new 45c and would love to take advantage of two free mags.
Albie

MarioS
04-29-2010, 10:08 PM
S&W is having a promotion right now if you bought a new M&P pistol within the last few months, I don't remember the exact dates. Check out their website to find the rebate coupon. You can either choose $50 rebate or two free mags.

The factory M&P45 magazines are 10-rounds in capacity anyway so it works for CA.