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slobson
04-27-2010, 8:44 PM
full disclosure: I'm a final year student at a top private school in southern california, getting my BS in business.

In the first evening of a new course this evening, I had my instructor declare to the class "I DON'T SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT IN THIS CLASS."

the course title, as stated on the syllabus, is Financial Management.

Upon my stern vociferous opposition to him interjecting his opinion and then forbidding any discussion of the subject, he told me not to tell him what to do. I've dealt with plenty of awful anti-American profs in the past, but this was over the top. to disagree is his right; but to try and stifle an opposing opinion so blatantly? infuriating. this is not meant to sound like a pity party, I am very blessed to have the opportunity to get my education.
/rant

Big Jake
04-27-2010, 8:47 PM
It sounds like 2a has no purpose in a finance class anyway so let it go and get through the class. Why he would bring it up since no one talked about it is strange anyway!

ned946
04-27-2010, 8:47 PM
Name of school.
Name of professor.

Phone numbers would be helpful.

You can post this, its all covered under the the amendment that the second amendment protects. He needs to be reminded.

dwh100
04-27-2010, 8:49 PM
BS stands for having to put up with Bull Sh_t!
Suck it up, get your grade, and then lambaste him.

ned946
04-27-2010, 8:50 PM
It sounds like 2a has no purpose in a finance class anyway so let it go and get through the class. Why he would bring it up since no one talked about it is strange anyway!

Wow.
Since when is it ok to perpetuate ignorance in an institution of higher learning? Its not as if the 2nd amendment is the students opinion. It is an amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Time for higher learning to understand that they are NOT above our laws, IMO. :chris:

kf6tac
04-27-2010, 8:55 PM
Wow.
Since when is it ok to perpetuate ignorance in an institution of higher learning? Its not as if the 2nd amendment is the students opinion. It is an amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Time for higher learning to understand that they are NOT above our laws, IMO. :chris:

Even if a pro-Second Amendment professor tried to air his views on the topic in a class titled FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT, I'd be pissed at him for wasting my class time. I don't care how valid or invalid the prof's point is, if it's not relevant to the course subject, I shouldn't have to hear about it. It sucks that the prof stole a few seconds to shove his opinion on the matter in everyone's face, but overall I can't say I disagree with his policy of not wanting to discuss the Second Amendment in Financial Management.

Shotgun Man
04-27-2010, 8:59 PM
Sometimes I do training talks. I try to subtly introduce guns in the discussions because it is a topic I care about.

RRangel
04-27-2010, 9:16 PM
I would probably be tempted to tell him to shove it and drop that class for another one.

There's an advocacy group for this sort of thing. FIRE (http://www.thefire.org/)

BKinzey
04-27-2010, 9:38 PM
Send correspondence to the department head and the presidents office. Let them know you are there to learn Financial Management not the professor's personal political opinion on the bill of rights. Nor do you wish to be subjected to these short harangues and then be told it cannot be discussed.

Tarn_Helm
04-27-2010, 10:32 PM
full disclosure: I'm a final year student at a top private school in southern california, getting my BS in business.

In the first evening of a new course this evening, I had my instructor declare to the class "I DON'T SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT IN THIS CLASS."

the course title, as stated on the syllabus, is Financial Management.

Upon my stern vociferous opposition to him interjecting his opinion and then forbidding any discussion of the subject, he told me not to tell him what to do. I've dealt with plenty of awful anti-American profs in the past, but this was over the top. to disagree is his right; but to try and stifle an opposing opinion so blatantly? infuriating. this is not meant to sound like a pity party, I am very blessed to have the opportunity to get my education.
/rant

He drew you out on purpose in order to harass you.

That is what it looks like to me.

Go ahead and oppose him if you want this to become something, but be smart about it: take the high road, start making written notes about the whole incident, and immediately get as much free advice from attorneys as possible.

If you have any friends in the class who are willing to serve as witnesses to your interactions with the prof., then make sure they are always present when you talk the person--he might even being trying to set you up.

There are a lot of psychos in academia who would gladly lie to further their twisted agendas.

I would also find out who his boss is and talk to the boss.

This prof. sounds like a complete a--hole, so watch your back.

Indoctrination and intimidation are not allowed under most codes of ethics espoused by both public and private institutions.

I seem to vaguely recall that CA Education Code explicitly forbids "indoctrination"--but don't take my word for it.

Check it out and get legal advice (which my words here are NOT!).

gregorylucas
04-27-2010, 10:36 PM
I learned in my time at Santa Rosa JC & Sonoma State University back in the late 90's/early 2000's to realize there are going to be VERY few professors people that support the 2nd Amendment and conservative causes in general.

As some of the other posters have stated you are not going to change his/her mind. So I realized that if I wanted to get good grades I was going to have to shut my mouth and give those Prof's the BS feel-good answers/statements that they wanted to hear without challanging their preconceived notions. So I would suggest not getting to worked up about it, getting good grades, walking out with your degree and making a hell of a lot more money in the real world than they ever will.

Heh, and take confort in the fact that Heller and Mcdonald (hopefully) will render his opposition to the 2nd Amendment moot.

-Greg

dfletcher
04-27-2010, 10:38 PM
Isn't the appropriate response to stand up and politely say "I don't care what you think" then sit down?

slobson
04-27-2010, 10:43 PM
BS stands for having to put up with Bull Sh_t!
Suck it up, get your grade, and then lambaste him.
the same advice my big brother gave me. I'm going to do my best to take it with as much grace as I can muster
It sounds like 2a has no purpose in a finance class anyway so let it go and get through the class. Why he would bring it up since no one talked about it is strange anyway!
I didn't include the thing that led to him bringing it up: basically, he made a reference to Iraqi bonds, but due to his accent another student asked him if he said Iraqi BOMBS, which started him off on his tirade, in which he also proudly announced that his hands never touch anything that could hurt someone, to which I replied what he used to keep his fork company :p
I would probably be tempted to tell him to shove it and drop that class for another one.
I already looked into it, it would back up my graduation date so I'm more inclined to follow dwh100's advice
There's an advocacy group for this sort of thing. FIRE (http://www.thefire.org/)
THAT is interesting, and something I need to look into further
Send correspondence to the department head and the presidents office. Let them know you are there to learn Financial Management not the professor's personal political opinion on the bill of rights. Nor do you wish to be subjected to these short harangues and then be told it cannot be discussed.
a face to face meeting with the dean is in the works. this is the second time I have dealt with a prof using his position to preach rather than teach, obviously it is unacceptable. which leads me nicely to. . .
Do not engage that prof. You cannot change his mind. You cannot win.

Back in school I was in the same predicament with a female prof. Despite a real easy class, I was casually given a lower grade.

not to be rude, but hell no. I'm paying too damn much for my education to sit meekly in my chair while some pompous jerk goes on about how he is an American but does not believe in the second amendment, but then refuse to defend his idiotic position. I explained to him that it was unacceptable to introduce a topic into discussion, give his opinion, and then not allow anyone else to respond in kind. if he tries giving me a poor grade as a result of this then other steps will be taken, but I refuse to let that type of behavior happen if I can at all stop it

nrakid88
04-27-2010, 10:44 PM
I can top this one. Two years ago, 2nd year of college, in my junior college, first day/week of class in American history 1700's-1900 (something like that).

Professor "We will be studying the BOR however, due to past incidences of yelling and such, we will not be going over the second amendment in class." (I am thinking, okay thats reasonable, maybe a fist fight broke out last semester) she goes on saying "but let me say this and then we will not discuss the topic further, ____ years ago there was a man (i forget the details) who heard someone breaking-into/creeping-around his house, the intruder comes through the door of the master bedroom and the homeowner shoots him, when he turns on the lights he finds out that he just shot and killed his son"

At that point my blood was boiling and clenched fists... Really, you ignorant *****, "im not going to let the class engage in a intelligent moderated discussion of the topic at hand, but rather I am going to inject the most emotional derationalized view of the subject and not allow anyone to refute the signifigance of what I have said" is basically what she said. At that point I understood why there had been yelling in previous semesters when this topic had been brought up. Keep in mind the area this school is in is conservative and mostly pro gun.

If anyone knows how I can get her fired or destroy her personal carreer I am still all ears. I did get a B in this class, which was average for my junior college performance so none of this is said out of place.

slobson
04-27-2010, 10:47 PM
Name of school.
Name of professor.

Phone numbers would be helpful.

You can post this, its all covered under the the amendment that the second amendment protects. He needs to be reminded.

I would LOVE to do this, but I'm not an expert in such matters: can anyone think of a reason why I should not put his info up? the real kicker I didn't even mention earlier is he teaches at multiple institutions, one of which is a public school in the cal state system, meaning he is being paid with tax dollars to spout this garbage

cmaynes
04-27-2010, 10:48 PM
asking innocently why that is even pertinent to the course would have been my first choice of retorts.

A student will only lose in a case like that- unless the teacher does something at the felony tier of offenses.

jaq
04-27-2010, 11:07 PM
I would LOVE to do this, but I'm not an expert in such matters: can anyone think of a reason why I should not put his info up? the real kicker I didn't even mention earlier is he teaches at multiple institutions, one of which is a public school in the cal state system, meaning he is being paid with tax dollars to spout this garbage

I strongly recommend that you drop this class now and replace it with another prof if at all possible. I wasted a semester of my time once with a tenured prof who preferred to lecture us about what he thought of everything political. The problem was it was a Macroeconomics course. I didn't learn anything about economics that semester except that it is more economical to bail out of a prof's class asap if he shows such signs of personal indulgence.

slobson
04-27-2010, 11:15 PM
I strongly recommend that you drop this class now and replace it with another prof if at all possible. I wasted a semester of my time once with a tenured prof who preferred to lecture us about what he thought of everything political. The problem was it was a Macroeconomics course. I didn't learn anything about economics that semester except that it is more economical to bail out of a prof's class asap if he shows such signs of personal indulgence.

I would absolutely do this if it was an option available that would not push my graduation date back, but unfortunately it is not

PORCH
04-27-2010, 11:27 PM
not to be rude, but hell no. I'm paying too damn much for my education to sit meekly in my chair while some pompous jerk goes on about how he is an American but does not believe in the second amendment, but then refuse to defend his idiotic position. I explained to him that it was unacceptable to introduce a topic into discussion, give his opinion, and then not allow anyone else to respond in kind. if he tries giving me a poor grade as a result of this then other steps will be taken, but I refuse to let that type of behavior happen if I can at all stop it

Good for you. I dealt with this a few times in college and I never backed down. I wasn't scared of getting a bad grade. If I did then I would have took the appropriate actions to rectify the situation. You are there to learn about Finance not his personal views. If he wants to interject his personal views then he should be able to handle opposing viewpoints. Too often students take everything teachers say to be 100% factual and we are graduating a bunch of robots that all think the same. Real education comes through your own studies and conclusions. The teacher is merely a guide to help you along the way. IMO

PEBKAC
04-28-2010, 12:58 AM
I've found that unless it is brought up, it is best not to go out of one's way to do so...but when it is I don't hold back so long as I remain relevant to whatever is being discussed.

Never actually gotten a lower grade due to expressing my opinions on the topic. Actually got a better grade once because the topic is not oft' explored and the professor must have been really tired of reading papers about philosophical arguments for or against god...

Even had one professor who I got interested in McDonald v. Chicago...he hates Slaughterhouse so that was my in. ;)

thrillhouse700
04-28-2010, 1:34 AM
I had a history Prof, that was pro gun. Brought in a Vietnam sniper who shared his AWESOME stories. I believe she was trying to get into the FBI or CIA or something.

I also had a prof who was anti gun because a helicopter landed on the freeway and stopped traffic to confiscate some guys Hi cap mags and the prof. was late to his daughters wedding.

N6ATF
04-28-2010, 8:52 AM
I also had a prof who was anti gun because a helicopter landed on the freeway and stopped traffic to confiscate some guys Hi cap mags and the prof. was late to his daughters wedding.

That would make me hate the government even more. What a jackboot licker.

Californio
04-28-2010, 9:31 AM
Isn't it wonderful when you or your parents are paying this guys salary that you have to put up with the one sided BS. College is the one place where you get to pay for the privilege of getting your nose rubbed in it.

They sit in their Ivory Towers like some kind of Royalty. I had a prof like that my senior year, gave him a earful on my final essay, doubt it made any difference.

Get your piece of paper and move on, he won't change no matter how hard you try.

mej16489
04-28-2010, 10:40 AM
Since when is it ok to perpetuate ignorance in an institution of higher learning?

I'm guessing you haven't been inside a classroom within the last 30 years...

xrMike
04-28-2010, 10:52 AM
Find out his personal vehicle and put a 2A sticker on his bumper. Arrive early to class some time and affix similar pro-gun stickers to his desk or lecturn, the chalkboard, or other hi-viz targets in the room. Make it your sacred mission to put an NRA sticker on his briefcase without getting caught.

ripcurlksm
04-28-2010, 11:25 AM
"Sir, what does that have to do with financial management? And its only in discussion because you brought it up and its has nothing to do with this subject matter."

:)

Get an A, graduate, prosper, reproduce!

OleCuss
04-28-2010, 11:57 AM
.
.
.
I also had a prof who was anti gun because a helicopter landed on the freeway and stopped traffic to confiscate some guys Hi cap mags and the prof. was late to his daughters wedding.

:rofl2::rofl2:

CRACKERJACK
04-28-2010, 11:59 AM
I also had a prof who was anti gun because a helicopter landed on the freeway and stopped traffic to confiscate some guys Hi cap mags and the prof. was late to his daughters wedding.

My ex-girlfriend was just telling me a similar story, how weird.

Apocalypsenerd
04-28-2010, 12:20 PM
My suggestion, and I have done this in college:

Ask the professor how their personal opinion is pertinent to the subject matter.

Then go speak with the dean of that department. Make the statement that you are in college to learn how to think about certain subjects and not what to think. Kindly ask the professor to get off their soap box and teach honest, researched facts about the subject of the class.

I did this, in a polite manner that would escalate to less polite talk if the teachers did not cool it. It helps though when you are a 40 year old guy working two jobs and putting yourself back into school.

Aleksandr Mravinsky
04-28-2010, 4:39 PM
Should have said to him, "I don't support the first amendment, so shut up!"

smarter
04-28-2010, 5:11 PM
my prof said "i love guns" and it's something people invest it. then again he served in the navy.

Glock22Fan
04-28-2010, 5:15 PM
Should have said to him, "I don't support the first amendment, so shut up!"

ROTFLMAO!

:jump:

winnre
04-28-2010, 5:22 PM
If he is against the 2nd amendment then he needs to speak German based on principle.

OleCuss
04-28-2010, 5:32 PM
Should have said to him, "I don't support the first amendment, so shut up!"

That's just perfect!

N6ATF
04-28-2010, 6:26 PM
If he is against the 2nd amendment then he needs to speak German based on principle.

Should have said to him, "I don't support the first amendment, so shut up!"

Awesome.

Satex
04-28-2010, 8:23 PM
Name of school.
Name of professor.
Phone numbers would be helpful.


That's stupid, he will end up a poor grade.


Upon my stern vociferous opposition to him interjecting his opinion and then forbidding any discussion of the subject, he told me not to tell him what to do.

Keep your mouth shut until you get your final grade, and then protest to the provost.


Do not engage that prof. You cannot change his mind. You cannot win.

Back in school I was in the same predicament with a female prof. Despite a real easy class, I was casually given a lower grade.

Exactly! The prof cannot respect the laws of the country that allowed him to practice free speech, most likely that he cannot give you a grade objectively if you harass him about it.

Bill Carson
04-28-2010, 9:11 PM
full disclosure: I'm a final year student at a top private school in southern california, getting my BS in business.

In the first evening of a new course this evening, I had my instructor declare to the class "I DON'T SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT IN THIS CLASS."

the course title, as stated on the syllabus, is Financial Management.

Upon my stern vociferous opposition to him interjecting his opinion and then forbidding any discussion of the subject, he told me not to tell him what to do. I've dealt with plenty of awful anti-American profs in the past, but this was over the top. to disagree is his right; but to try and stifle an opposing opinion so blatantly? infuriating. this is not meant to sound like a pity party, I am very blessed to have the opportunity to get my education.
/rant

He baited and you bit. Change classes, he is going to make your life tough for you.

slobson
05-07-2010, 12:42 AM
well I finished the course, and sure enough the guy graded like a big jerk, but OH WELL. got my 3.0, which I'm not happy with considering it brought down my cum GPA which was at a 3.6, but its over and I'm one step closer to that expensive *** piece of paper. and in response to this
Isn't it wonderful when you or your parents are paying this guys salary that you have to put up with the one sided BS. College is the one place where you get to pay for the privilege of getting your nose rubbed in it.

They sit in their Ivory Towers like some kind of Royalty. I had a prof like that my senior year, gave him a earful on my final essay, doubt it made any difference.

Get your piece of paper and move on, he won't change no matter how hard you try.

yes, it is frustrating to pay the jerk's salary out of my own pocket (no parental subsidies here), but its much less frustrating to work a crappy job the rest of my life, and that is the thought that spurs me on. I appreciate all the comments and encouragement, I'll have to PM all you local guys to come out to my bar and have a drink on me when I'm finally done with this nonsense

yellowfin
05-07-2010, 4:30 AM
I didn't include the thing that led to him bringing it up: basically, he made a reference to Iraqi bonds, but due to his accent another student asked him if he said Iraqi BOMBS, which started him off on his tirade, in which he also proudly announced that his hands never touch anything that could hurt someone, to which I replied what he used to keep his fork company :p
Interesting, a case of moral anorexia hoplophobia. It's one of the ugliest parts of liberal alternative morality. Interesting for him to come out and admit it.

bsg
05-07-2010, 4:39 AM
the teacher was trolling....

-Brady

sniper5
05-07-2010, 5:08 AM
There are only 3 things you will learn in college that would be difficult to learn on your own:

1. How to research and write a paper that will stand up to peer review.

2. How to successfully discuss and debate opposing viewpoints.

3. How to tolerate and kiss up to a-holes and burearocracies .

Eventually at some point in your life these will serve you well. The rest of the stuff you will either forget or could have learned on your own.

Bugei
05-07-2010, 8:14 AM
not to be rude, but hell no. I'm paying too damn much for my education to sit meekly in my chair while some pompous jerk goes on about how he is an American but does not believe in the second amendment, but then refuse to defend his idiotic position. I explained to him that it was unacceptable to introduce a topic into discussion, give his opinion, and then not allow anyone else to respond in kind. if he tries giving me a poor grade as a result of this then other steps will be taken, but I refuse to let that type of behavior happen if I can at all stop it

You have good principles and I admire that. Two points, though:
1) It's better for society for you to get your degree and effect change when you have more power to do so.
2) Look at this guy. He's a moron. When push comes to shove, and historically it always does, he's going to be somebody's lunch. This is the deal he's made with the Universe, to embrace and accept violence rather than dirty his hands with it. It might not be moral for you to get between this guy and his own destruction.
3) If you were successful in getting him censured, he'd still be a d*ck. It would just take a different form.

tpuig
05-07-2010, 10:07 AM
It's too bad some anonymous person didn't make a call to the police saying there was an unstable person talking about guns in your classroom...

Nate74
05-07-2010, 10:23 AM
As an alum of THE good private school in Southern CA, I'd be very interested in knowing the school and professor. Pressure from a strong alumni group has changed things.

Of course if you didn't go to the school I think you went to... maybe there are still alumni who can support you.

boxbro
05-07-2010, 10:23 AM
full disclosure: I'm a final year student at a top private school in southern california, getting my BS in business.

In the first evening of a new course this evening, I had my instructor declare to the class "I DON'T SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT IN THIS CLASS."

A great response would have been:
So you don't support the 1st amendment either!
What other amendments in the BOR do you not support ?

chief003
05-07-2010, 10:56 AM
University professors are damn near untouchable in the classroom. I've had discussions with department chairs, college deans and university administration about the conduct of professors in the classroom.

For what it's worth, don't worry about the professor (its a lost cause that only makes you crazy and upset) but rather talk with your classmates about 2A if you feel the need to discuss the topic. They will be far more open to new ideas than the prof.

Good luck in Fin Mgt - generally some good stuff in that class.

Chief003

slobson
05-07-2010, 4:50 PM
You have good principles and I admire that. Two points, though:

First of all thank you, I appreciate it.
2) Look at this guy. He's a moron. When push comes to shove, and historically it always does, he's going to be somebody's lunch. This is the deal he's made with the Universe, to embrace and accept violence rather than dirty his hands with it. It might not be moral for you to get between this guy and his own destruction.

its eerie, I just had a conversation with a good friend of mine a couple of days ago where I came to the same conclusion. Although I do not wish a thing to happen, in a meltdown/anarchy/SHTF situation, as you said: this guy quite simply WILL NOT STAND A CHANCE, and at that point he will be held accountable for his actions

Wherryj
05-07-2010, 6:05 PM
Name of school.
Name of professor.

Phone numbers would be helpful.

You can post this, its all covered under the the amendment that the second amendment protects. He needs to be reminded.

There are also quite a few teacher rating sites. This could be a very useful and objective rating on those sites, differentiating it from the rest of the opinions.

I heard a great quote once: "If you are a student and your aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you are employed and you're not a conservative, you have no brain."

It is amazing what passes for "education" with the loons teaching at the asylums anymore.

Wherryj
05-07-2010, 6:08 PM
Isn't the appropriate response to stand up and politely say "I don't care what you think" then sit down?

I personally prefer, "When I want your opinion I'll give it to you." Perhaps it was a good thing that I went to medical school. The profs tend to be slightly more conservative there...