PDA

View Full Version : UTG rails Why Not?


JOLLYROGER
04-27-2010, 6:59 PM
UTG Rails I dont understand why people get down on these rails, and say not to buy them.I was able to see one on a gun (the usa made two piece). The thing was rock solid. Just as good as any rail I have seen..I just want to know why people enjoy spending so much on these "name brands" if you will. Lets be honest with ourselves too when we answer this.. most of us who own an AR have one for fun..its an adult toy..The only action they see is at the range shooting paper.. not war...not the force...Is it just for bragging rights? Just to be clear, not getting down on any ones choices at all.... just want to understand why not a utg..seems like your just paying for a name.. lets hear your opinions... please:chris:

ChrisO
04-27-2010, 7:11 PM
I don't think they are that bad for the money at all. For a plain rail I would use one. If you have the extra money to spend why not buy better quality though? There IS a difference in quality between a UTG and larue or DD rail that you can feel and see. If ya have the cash why not swing it? Also some other brands just plain make a better looking rail and I don't only like my weapons to function good but if it's my toy I want it to look good!

tomd1584
04-27-2010, 7:11 PM
pot metal?

Airsoft?

Heavy as ****?

Thicker than any rail i've ever seen?

Here we go!!!!

KING_PALM
04-27-2010, 7:13 PM
i own one for my 10/22. for your ar you should spend a lil more and atleast get a YHM

chiseenchinaman
04-27-2010, 7:13 PM
lol... you said "adult toy" ::childish giggle::

but yeah, i know what you mean...i can somewhat understand spending lots on barrels, trigger assemblies, and whatnot. but when it comes to accessories i can't really justify. as long as it's quality and works well for me, i'm all for cheap deals.

However, if i was to head out to a gun fight with them, i'd have the most decked out set up i can get after selling my kidney and half my liver.

Noah3683
04-27-2010, 7:14 PM
Eh they're not bad if you want the look and just put a grip on it, however they are heavier than hell and not the narrowest of designs either

IsaacGlass
04-27-2010, 7:36 PM
They aren't made with the highest level of design, material and quality control therefore they sometimes have fit issues. If you like them, buy it. I have one on my Saiga and they are heavy.

IsaacGlass
04-27-2010, 7:46 PM
lol... you said "adult toy" ::childish giggle::

but yeah, i know what you mean...i can somewhat understand spending lots on barrels, trigger assemblies, and whatnot. but when it comes to accessories i can't really justify. as long as it's quality and works well for me, i'm all for cheap deals.

However, if i was to head out to a gun fight with them, i'd have the most decked out set up i can get after selling my kidney and half my liver.

Hey crazychineseman, dont let people in China hear you talk like this, they might take you literally about your kidney and liver thinking it's for free :eek:

chiseenchinaman
04-27-2010, 7:50 PM
lol yeah... SPEAKING of that... i know a friend's sister who was in china with her friends. they went out for a night of fun, lost a friend in the crazy night and found her dead in the morning with her organs taken. O_O

gunRfun
04-27-2010, 7:52 PM
They are a bit on the heavy side compared to the rest but doable for a 40 dollar rail.. I ain't going to lie, I have one on one of the rifles.

Cobrafreak
04-27-2010, 7:54 PM
I have one on my M4. Works fine. No issues at all. I paid $40 for it on line. Good buy.

thefinger
04-27-2010, 8:08 PM
UTG quad rails are heavy, bulky and non-FF. If that doesn't bother you then go for it. Otherwise, just spend a bit more and get a free-floated YHM or MI rail.

gasol1ne
04-27-2010, 8:36 PM
i have a free floated UTG rail, and it is a tad bit heavier than the more expensive rails, but not by much.

it is really wide though so if you get one i would recommend buying magpul ladder rail covers instead of using the rail covers that comes with it.

1988
04-27-2010, 9:30 PM
I no longer have any UTG rails, just because I can afford more expensive and sexier rails now. ;)

HK Dave
04-27-2010, 9:45 PM
There is nothing wrong with UTG. They're just a bit heavy is all. Don't listen to the elitist folk. :)

If you want to increase accuracy, I'd go for a free float rail from a more high end manufacturer... but those get pricy.

If all you want is a quad rail to mount stuff and don't mind the extra weight... nothing wrong with UTG.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 9:15 AM
In rail systems, you generally get what you pay for.
Prices are lower on some for a reason.
It's up to the individual buyer to decide what compromises to accept.

UserM4
04-28-2010, 9:36 AM
I hear MI rails are fantastic for the money. I wonder how they compare, or don't compare, with UTG rails.

Richie Caketown
04-28-2010, 9:40 AM
i had that mentality at first until i ordered one.

1) i had to trim parts of it to get it to fit into the delta ring
2) it wasnt very light
3) fitment of the 2 rail peices wasnt the best
4) after a while the rail sat crooked and leaned to the right
5) you constantly need to tighten the bolts
6) it has a way of attracting dirt better than the SAmson/DD rails ive had


need i say more?

moshpit
04-28-2010, 9:45 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/15wxtef.jpg

There's nothing wrong with the look or quality of UTG rail systems. It looks and feels solid, and has an undeniable beauty that more expensive rails would not have improved in any way once the rail guards go on. Tell me that looks cheap or crappy in any way and I'll laugh. I know it's a pretty gun. Not the very prettiest ever of course, but it DOES tend to stand out at the ranges.

Richie Caketown
04-28-2010, 9:50 AM
it looks and feels cheap and crappy :p

moshpit
04-28-2010, 9:53 AM
it looks and feels cheap and crappy :p

Well, heaven help me, I won't be called "not a man of his word", so here goes:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay, now that I've kept my word, and in the proper spirit, you KNOW you want it :p

Edit: You just wanted to see me laugh, didn't you? God, I feel so baited :p

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 9:56 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/15wxtef.jpg

Rear sight on the riser = FAIL.

Richie Caketown
04-28-2010, 9:58 AM
Well, heaven help me, I won't be called "not a man of his word", so here goes:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay, now that I've kept my word, and in the proper spirit, you KNOW you want it :p

Edit: You just wanted to see me laugh, didn't you? God, I feel so baited :p

see my above post , ive had a UTG rail

and yes you were baited

djleisure
04-28-2010, 9:59 AM
Go with whatever works for you - no need to justify it.

I personally tend to buy things with an attitude of, "If all of these had the same price, which one would I choose?" Then I buy that one (within reason.) So, if the DD Omega 7 rail, the Omega Lite rail, the TROY rail, the YHM rail, the MI rail and the UTG rail were ALL just $50, which would I buy? I guarantee the UTG is nowhere near the top of that list... then I just go with the next limiting factor and that is "Which can I afford at this time?" and work my way down the list...

Also, I absolutely HATE their rail guards. I think they look tacky (UTG, UTG, UTG, UTG) on otherwise decent looking rails. (No offense to the rifle posted above - that is a nice looking rifle, but get your rear sight and EOTech off the riser ;))

Richie Caketown
04-28-2010, 10:00 AM
Rear sight on the riser = FAIL.

he could be shooting long distance with his irons :laugh:

AR-15 Rep
04-28-2010, 10:05 AM
some have been know to be as much as 7 degrees off from the rear sight to center at the muzzle. If you plan on putting a rail mounted front sight on them you may want to check that they are correct.

HK Dave
04-28-2010, 10:10 AM
Rear sight on the riser = FAIL.

ROFL you mean bastard.

I noticed it too.. didn't want to say anything. :P

BTW that rifle resides in another state right? Given that it doesn't have a bullet button. :(

moshpit
04-28-2010, 10:14 AM
Can't take the sight off the riser, it zero's perfectly like that. Without the riser, the front sight doesn't co-witness and is TOTALLY off. With the riser, everything is perfectly lined up. The front sight is too high as it is, so the riser brought it all in line.

Fail is making judgements without knowing the facts of the situation completely. The rifle wouldn't sight with the irons at all without the riser. The riser cost a lot less then a new frontal flip-up iron would have, and does the job fine.

Exposed
04-28-2010, 10:16 AM
I have always been a fan of "Midwest Industries" drop in rails. They are not as expensive as your DDs, YHM, Troys, etc free float rails, But far better quality and look than the UTGs.

WILDMAN442
04-28-2010, 10:17 AM
BCM has the DD 12.0FSP on sale for less than 200 bucks. KILLER price on an awesome rail. Hell eventhe YHM would be a better choice

Just my .02man UTG isnt that grat of quality

Justin

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 10:17 AM
Can't take the sight off the riser, it zero's perfectly like that. Without the riser, the front sight doesn't co-witness and is TOTALLY off. With the riser, everything is perfectly lined up. The front sight is too high as it is, so the riser brought it all in line.

Fail is making judgements without knowing the facts of the situation completely. The rifle wouldn't sight with the irons at all without the riser. The riser cost a lot less then a new frontal flip-up iron would have, and does the job fine.

Your front sight is intended for a gas block which is lower.
So, basically, you have TWO incorrect parts that are cancelling each other out. :rofl2:

moshpit
04-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Your front sight is intended for a gas block which is lower.
So, basically, you have TWO incorrect parts that are cancelling each other out. :rofl2:

Cancelling, as in making work perfectly? Sounds like somebody is pretty stuck up. I got the irons free, snob. I made the best of a tough situation and turned out a rifle that will match anything you call "the correct way" for accuracy now. Is that a problem? Or are you just so stuck on yourself that somebody finding a good way out of a tough situation is just over your head?

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 10:21 AM
Cancelling, as in making work perfectly?

Yes.
In your case, two wrongs DID make a right.

nagorb
04-28-2010, 10:22 AM
If you like it who cares? I highly doubt you'll be in any gunfights with it so why would you need a $300 rail?

I would suggest YHM for cheap rails.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 10:26 AM
Yes.
In your case, two wrongs DID make a right.

I see, accepting a gift of free iron sights is a wrong, and finding a way to COMPLETELY fix that mismatched set is also. Who do you bloody think you are even?

Edit: For the record, my fix cost under 20 bucks. When you pull out the corncob and can give an equally expedient and inexpensive fix alternative, I'll consider your points even worthy. Until then, please quit with the trolling, it's unprofessional and unbecoming of what is a mostly civilized forum. And pulling the thread off-topic.

Nookieaki
04-28-2010, 10:28 AM
MI makes a good 2 piece rail for the money, in fact I plan on getting one for my AR15.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Midwest-Industries-MCTAR-17-p/mctar-17.htm

I have a MI rail on my ak47 and the lockup is solid, no moving or rattling at all.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j115/Nookieaki/prk.jpg

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 10:36 AM
Hey, UTG is fine for the guys who just want to mount stuff and take pictures with. Inexpensive way to get "the look"

moshpit
04-28-2010, 10:59 AM
Hey, UTG is fine for the guys who just want to mount stuff and take pictures with. Inexpensive way to get "the look"

Really? And the look is it? And solid mounting points that hold up through quite a bit of range abuse now doesn't count? Hmmmm. Funny thing that, I thought function AND form was what made a good rail system. Seeing as everything stays where it's supposed to, I expect you have some experience with UTG not doing so? Or are you just repeating something you've read elsewhere?

I didn't think branding snobs were as prevalent in firearms circles as it's looking like it may be. Honestly, talking without trying just doesn't cut it. Funny how a just returned from Iraq infantryman told me the only thing my rifle lacked for him to take it happily into combat after shooting it, was full auto mode. And he'd take off the light, but for HD it's fine. I'll take his word over the snobs I've seen posting anti-UTG smack-talk in this thread so far.

Edit: And that happened AFTER adding the riser :p

Edit #2: Also, his only gripe with the irons on the riser was that the rear sight could create a bad catching point for rapid vehicle exiting. Seeing as I'm not planning any military style maneuvers with it, I think the riser and UTG rails work GREAT for the purpose. I'm not looking to get better then 1 MOA, but that's what he was shooting with it, almost perfectly. I'm still not that good yet and still drift a hair out of 1 MOA. Brand snobs and torpedoes be damned, full speed ahead I say.

rod
04-28-2010, 11:00 AM
I see, accepting a gift of free iron sights is a wrong, and finding a way to COMPLETELY fix that mismatched set is also. Who do you bloody think you are even?

Edit: For the record, my fix cost under 20 bucks. When you pull out the corncob and can give an equally expedient and inexpensive fix alternative, I'll consider your points even worthy. Until then, please quit with the trolling, it's unprofessional and unbecoming of what is a mostly civilized forum. And pulling the thread off-topic.

:popcorn:

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 11:19 AM
Really? And the look is it? And solid mounting points that hold up through quite a bit of range abuse now doesn't count? Hmmmm. Funny thing that, I thought function AND form was what made a good rail system. Seeing as everything stays where it's supposed to, I expect you have some experience with UTG not doing so? Or are you just repeating something you've read elsewhere?

I didn't think branding snobs were as prevalent in firearms circles as it's looking like it may be. Honestly, talking without trying just doesn't cut it. Funny how a just returned from Iraq infantryman told me the only thing my rifle lacked for him to take it happily into combat after shooting it, was full auto mode. And he'd take off the light, but for HD it's fine. I'll take his word over the snobs I've seen posting anti-UTG smack-talk in this thread so far.

Edit: And that happened AFTER adding the riser :p

Edit #2: Also, his only gripe with the irons on the riser was that the rear sight could create a bad catching point for rapid vehicle exiting. Seeing as I'm not planning any military style maneuvers with it, I think the riser and UTG rails work GREAT for the purpose. I'm not looking to get better then 1 MOA, but that's what he was shooting with it, almost perfectly. I'm still not that good yet and still drift a hair out of 1 MOA. Brand snobs and torpedoes be damned, full speed ahead I say.

Define "Quite a bit of range use". Sitting at a bench shooting paper targets? sure, I bet a homemade rail will within stand that type of shooting.

I'm not trying to get in a pissing match; they serve a purpose at a certain price point. But just because it looks like a quality product, doesnt necessarily mean that it is.

What type of metal is it made of? what type of anodizing does it have? are the rails within spec?

Given the price point, i'd have to say its not comparable to those made from reputable Manufacturers. UTG manufacturers AIRSOFT products, for Christ sake.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 11:25 AM
Define "Quite a bit of range use". Sitting at a bench shooting paper targets? sure, I bet a homemade rail will within stand that type of shooting.

I'm not trying to get in a pissing match; they serve a purpose at a certain price point. But just because it looks like a quality product, doesnt necessarily mean that it is.

What type of metal is it made of? what type of anodizing does it have? are the rails within spec?

Given the price point, i'd have to say its not comparable to those made from reputable Manufacturers. UTG manufacturers AIRSOFT products, for Christ sake.

If you're not trying to get in a pissing match, why are you being so negative about something you obviously from your own statements have never even used? In fact, sounds to me, from your own statements, you haven't researched rail purchases much at all. I almost blew 250 bucks on a rail system. THANK GOD, I didn't.

Range abuse? Sitting and popping targets only? More assumptions, on your part, to justify being negative about a product you are judging harshly based on price grouping alone. I tried quite a few handgrip rail systems at a few local ranges before deciding that it was STUPID to waste 250 bucks on a rail system that gave me NOTHING over the UTG and some of which didn't even feel as comfortable once the rail guards were added. Do your own research before making such broad judgements if you want to avoid pissing matches with those who HAVE tried it and found it perfectly solid.

Edit: Check these product points for your answers to the questions you asked:
1. Precision machined with maximum strength
2. Four mil-spec Picatinny rails for versatile accessory applications
3. Integral assembly alignment front tabs and spinal cords to guarantee perfect rock solid fit
4. Fits rifle length Model 4, 15/16 and variants
5. Hard anodized finish for wear resistance

Some of the bullet points were deleted because they were just silly marketing fluff. Anything that smacked of marketing fluff was left out.

telcolineman
04-28-2010, 11:54 AM
I have had 2 UTG rails, A bit heavier than my MI or samson. But function fine, A little blue loctite keeps the allen screws from coming loose. Bit I use loctite on everything even my Armalite 2 piece rail system, It's your rifle do as you wish

ScorpioVI
04-28-2010, 12:11 PM
I put one on my FAL. $89 vs $400 for the DSA. Easy choice. It's not like my life depends on it.

Mounted easily, locks on tight, no offsetting. Only issue I had with it was the rail sits high, needed to put the scope on a riser rail so the objective can clear the rail.

http://scorpiovi.smugmug.com/photos/841901068_vitc9-L-1.jpg

I agree that the UTG rail covers are ugly, I'll be replacing them with XTM panels.

L4D
04-28-2010, 12:13 PM
its too bad they plaster the "UTG" brand all over the place. otherwise it would be hard to tell that your $50 rail is not a $200 rail through pictures. ;)

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 12:22 PM
If you're not trying to get in a pissing match, why are you being so negative about something you obviously from your own statements have never even used? In fact, sounds to me, from your own statements, you haven't researched rail purchases much at all. I almost blew 250 bucks on a rail system. THANK GOD, I didn't.

Range abuse? Sitting and popping targets only? More assumptions, on your part, to justify being negative about a product you are judging harshly based on price grouping alone. I tried quite a few handgrip rail systems at a few local ranges before deciding that it was STUPID to waste 250 bucks on a rail system that gave me NOTHING over the UTG and some of which didn't even feel as comfortable once the rail guards were added. Do your own research before making such broad judgements if you want to avoid pissing matches with those who HAVE tried it and found it perfectly solid.

Edit: Check these product points for your answers to the questions you asked:
1. Precision machined with maximum strength
2. Four mil-spec Picatinny rails for versatile accessory applications
3. Integral assembly alignment front tabs and spinal cords to guarantee perfect rock solid fit
4. Fits rifle length Model 4, 15/16 and variants
5. Hard anodized finish for wear resistance

Some of the bullet points were deleted because they were just silly marketing fluff. Anything that smacked of marketing fluff was left out.


Where did i ever say i have no experieence with UTG? I have tried a UTG rail before, on a .22lr upper. Price was right, so i figured i'd buy it. I ended up selling it for more than I paid, so good for me i guess. Please, dont make assumptions either.

I had several problems with it; couldnt get XTM panels to fit, Couldnt get a Tango Down FVG to fit either. Would have ruined the thing if I did. So much for "mil-spec" picatinny rails.

Hard anodized finish? the finish was F'd up just getting rail covers on... and I'm not talking about little white marks, more like scraping the paint right off. Not a big deal to me, but Definately not Milspec Type III hardcoat anodized to me. More like BBQ spray paint.

My bad for making assumptions on your typical shooting experiences. If you'd like, id like to hear about your typical range sessions. I dont go to public ranges, but Angeles is the closest to me, and it doesnt even allow rapid firing. maybe you rent a private range everytime you go out. If thats the case, i should start hanging out with you!

Perhaps you've taken a few carbine classes with your UTG rail? If so, please give us an AAR. I only ask because even TOP TIER weapons and parts fail. So how can a low level product not?

Like i said, they are marketed for a specific group with a specific price point.

stix213
04-28-2010, 12:25 PM
I like UTG stuff in general.

Though having UTG written on your gun is the same thing as having it say "K-Mart"

If you are cool having a big "K-Mart" brand written across your tacti-cool AR then by all means :p

moshpit
04-28-2010, 12:27 PM
I have had 2 UTG rails, A bit heavier than my MI or samson

This would be my one complaint, if I was to have any. It's not as light as some of the more expensive ones. THAT may be the whole point of expensive ones though, they're made of lighter weight alloy? I know it's not because of standardized rails or actual toughness of the product itself, or anything like that. Weight would be the only point I could see, and I'm strong enough for that to not be an issue.

The Yankee Hill and DD sets I looked at were much lighter weight then the UTG set I decided on in the end. Weight wasn't really a factor for me though as we're not talking a 10lb loaded rifle or anything like that. It does get mighty close to 8lbs though. The only things that mattered to me is, would it survive abuse, and would it do it's job reliably. And looking good would be a nice plus, but not a necessity.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 12:31 PM
Where did i ever say i have no experieence with UTG? I have tried a UTG rail before, on a .22lr upper. Price was right, so i figured i'd buy it. I ended up selling it for more than I paid, so good for me i guess. Please, dont make assumptions either.

I had several problems with it; couldnt get XTM panels to fit, Couldnt get a Tango Down FVG to fit either. Would have ruined the thing if I did. So much for "mil-spec" picatinny rails.

Hard anodized finish? the finish was F'd up just getting rail covers on... and I'm not talking about little white marks, more like scraping the paint right off. Not a big deal to me, but Definately not Milspec Type III hardcoat anodized to me. More like BBQ spray paint.

My bad for making assumptions on your typical shooting experiences. If you'd like, id like to hear about your typical range sessions. I dont go to public ranges, but Angeles is the closest to me, and it doesnt even allow rapid firing. maybe you rent a private range everytime you go out. If thats the case, i should start hanging out with you!

Perhaps you've taken a few carbine classes with your UTG rail? If so, please give us an AAR. I only ask because even TOP TIER weapons and parts fail. So how can a low level product not?

Like i said, they are marketed for a specific group with a specific price point.

Honestly, you DID say you had never tried one of these. Here is the quote:

I'm not trying to get in a pissing match; they serve a purpose at a certain price point. But just because it looks like a quality product, doesnt necessarily mean that it is.

What type of metal is it made of? what type of anodizing does it have? are the rails within spec?

Given the price point, i'd have to say its not comparable to those made from reputable Manufacturers.

The enlarged text shows where your GUESSING about the quality. No assumptions on my part, only yours. Admit when you don't know what you're talking about. You don't. You tried a .22 version??? And that qualifies you to judge all their products equally? Lovely...

All the posturing over brand name reminds me of school girls showing off their new pair of Jordass Jeans.

pacrimguru
04-28-2010, 12:35 PM
if you take the geo metro approach to your rifle then UTG is just fine.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 12:38 PM
if you take the geo metro approach to your rifle then UTG is just fine.

And that pair of Jordass Jeans is fitting how well now? They just happened to wear out about as fast as a nice pair of Levi's would have (maybe even faster), they just cost 4x as much...

Edit: And oh yeah, the Jordass Jeans weighed less :p

pacrimguru
04-28-2010, 12:39 PM
And that pair of Jordass Jeans is fitting how well now? They just happened to wear out about as fast as a nice pair of Levi's would have (maybe even faster), they just cost 4x as much...

Edit: And oh yeah, the Jordass Jeans weighed less :p

i don't quite get your meaning.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 12:43 PM
i don't quite get your meaning.

My meaning is, just like the Levi's covered your butt as well as the Jordass Jeans did, the UTG holds your gear just as solidly as the 4x as expensive Yankee Hill version, but doesn't have that brand name appeal. It happens to weigh a little more. THAT is what your paying so much for with the name brands, a lighter assembly, not a any better actual rail system or somehow stronger tube structure, just the more expensive materials needed to weigh less.

Edit: And as I said before, weight would have only been an issue if it had been extreme enough of a difference to make the rifle unwieldy. That did not happen. Saving maybe a whole pound of weight would have been nice, but is it worth nearly 150-200 bucks more then the 50 I paid? Nope. The 200 bucks wouldn't have bought me any better rails, there's only so much you can do to a mil-spec rail. Would it have bought me something that doesn't say "UTG" on it and weighed a little less? That's about it. Sorry, I consider over-sensitivity to brands to be a short sighted practice.

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 12:50 PM
Honestly, you DID say you had never tried one of these. Here is the quote:



The enlarged text shows where your GUESSING about the quality. No assumptions on my part, only yours. Admit when you don't know what you're talking about. You don't. You tried a .22 version??? And that qualifies you to judge all their products equally? Lovely...

All the posturing over brand name reminds me of school girls showing off their new pair of Jordass Jeans.


No dude. I'm not trying to judge all their products equally. i bought a carbine 4 rail handguard for my ST .22lr AR upper. It had problems. **** didnt fit. It was super fat and heavy as ****. the finish was damaged by putting covers on it.

Sorry its not what you want to hear, but its my personal experiences with a Crappy product.

You did however avoid my comments about the materials and standards the rail is made to;

Or about the fact that even top tier parts fail, so why wouldnt a UTG?

Like I keep saying, it has its market.

pacrimguru
04-28-2010, 12:52 PM
My meaning is, just like the Levi's covered your butt as well as the Jordass Jeans did, the UTG holds your gear just as solidly as the 4x as expensive Yankee Hill version, but doesn't have that brand name appeal. It happens to weigh a little more. THAT is what your paying so much for with the name brands, a lighter assembly, not a any better actual rail system or somehow stronger tube structure, just the more expensive materials needed to weigh less.

i do get what you are saying and no offense intended to you at all, but judging from your post, you really don't understand rail systems.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 12:57 PM
i do get what you are saying and no offense intended to you at all, but judging from your post, you really don't understand rail systems.

Please point out what makes you say so. If the rails are solidly mounting everything attempted to connect to them, and withstanding all of the abuse it receives, but is a little heavier, then what am I missing? Is there some kind of known proof out there that says "as solid as UTG appears to be, we've revealed how easily it breaks..."? Show me that. Failing that, my point stands on it's own merit. There's not some magical known bug or failure with these. Or if there is, I haven't found it and would be MORE then grateful for the help in finding such data.

It's not too late for me to "bite the bullet" as it were and blow the 250 on better rails, but my research has shown no solid negative data, just a ton of brand snobbery against it. When I see unfounded brand snobbery, it just makes me WANT to rebel against it.

Edit: You show me solid negative data against the UTG unit I have installed, and I'll order the Yankee Hill unit within 5 minutes of you proving your point. I want a solid rifle, but I refuse to waste money on what at this point only appears to me to be less then informed and overly brand sensitive opinions on this model. To this moment though, all I've seen is brand sensitivity with no hard data to support such negativity beyond "it doesn't cost enough...", and one or two incompatibility cases (which can happen with even the expensive units).

Edit #2: The solid negative data against UTG must be based on build quality and the failure of such. Weight alone cannot be the whole point of negative press or it means nothing to me. I'm not trying to be the fastest gun in the west here, and the current weight doesn't bother me in the slightest.

pacrimguru
04-28-2010, 1:01 PM
this topic has been beaten to death over and over on so many forums including this one. read through this thread so we don't have to do it over again, again.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=244164

in the end, if you want to buy a UTG, by all means do it. no need to get approval from anyone here.

djleisure
04-28-2010, 1:01 PM
Hey Jerry, I went ahead and modified your banner - ya know - just in case you're convinced... ;)

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/dj_leisure/valk_tac.jpg

mif_slim
04-28-2010, 1:02 PM
And I thought the XD vs Glock was bad.... :chris:

pacrimguru
04-28-2010, 1:13 PM
Hey Jerry, I went ahead and modified your banner - ya know - just in case you're convinced... ;)

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/dj_leisure/valk_tac.jpg

LOL!!!!!!!! :rofl2:

moshpit
04-28-2010, 1:14 PM
this topic has been beaten to death over and over on so many forums including this one. read through this thread so we don't have to do it over again, again.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=244164

in the end, if you want to buy a UTG, by all means do it. no need to get approval from anyone here.

So, I was right then. Skimming through that, I don't see a single "hard point" of data showing any reasons against UTG except a desire to be the prettiest girl in class with her Jordass Jeans. Knowing a handgrip costed 300 bucks just gives more wood then one that cost 50 bucks, I get it. And that's the exact mentality I have no time, or money to waste on. In the end, you got nothing extra out of that pair of Jordass then the Levi jeans except less money in the wallet.

pacrimguru
04-28-2010, 1:15 PM
So, I was right then. Skimming through that, I don't see a single "hard point" of data showing any reasons against UTG except a desire to be the prettiest girl in class with her Jordass Jeans. Knowing a handgrip costed 300 bucks just gives more wood then one that cost 50 bucks, I get it. And that's the exact mentality I have no time, or money to waste on. In the end, you got nothing extra out of that pair of jeans except less money in the wallet.

:kest: don't skim, read each and every post.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 1:19 PM
And the Kmart references would be well placed, IF, UTG was known for falling apart or breaking. I'm not finding that in any heavier quantities in google searches then found for higher cost units. Not hearing about any at the ranges either. SO, Kmart would be a valid reference, IF these jeans would split at the seams at the first try to sit and roll on the ground a bit. These jeans seem to hold together just as well as the high dollar ones. They weigh a bit more. Whoop-de-do in my book. If I want lighter, I'll pay the extra for it.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 1:19 PM
:kest: don't skim, read each and every post.

I missed something again? DOH! I'll go slowely through it then...

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 1:21 PM
So, I was right then. Skimming through that, I don't see a single "hard point" of data showing any reasons against UTG except a desire to be the prettiest girl in class with her Jordass Jeans. Knowing a handgrip costed 300 bucks just gives more wood then one that cost 50 bucks, I get it. And that's the exact mentality I have no time, or money to waste on. In the end, you got nothing extra out of that pair of Jordass then the Levi jeans except less money in the wallet.


Give us an update in 6 months. you've only had UTG on your rifle for what, about 2 weeks? Put it through its paces and then give us a report.

(this is based on your previous posts, where you say on 4/18/2010 that you've had the rifle for 2 weeks, and just finished putting a couple hundred dollars of upgrades on it).

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:21 PM
:kest: don't skim, read each and every post.

You can't fix cheap. ;)
Some people get it.
Others never will.

Koolpsych
04-28-2010, 1:22 PM
When I was looking into buying rails I was conflicted between the DD Omega and the UTG rails. The price difference between the 2 is about $175 which is pretty large. I went with the DD rails because I knew that if I got the UTG rails, I would always be wanting to eventually upgrade them, so better to just start with what I wanted in the beginning rather than saving money now and in the end spending more when I wanted to upgrade. I guess you should decide if you have the money now to spend or if you will be happy long term with the UTG rails. On a side note, I really love my DD Omega X "7!

till44
04-28-2010, 1:22 PM
Best thread ever! :rofl2::clap::lurk5:
This cracked me up in class:
Weight would be the only point I could see, and I'm strong enough for that to not be an issue.

My opinion, you get what you pay for. If you want a product that will go to hell and back then pay the extra money. I guarantee I would eventually break or cause a UTG product to fail. I run my guns hard and have had quality/expensive parts break and fail.

I think they do fill a nice niche in the gun community though. Some have no need for the high end stuff and the parts will never fail them. But if you do use a UTG rail, PLEASE get rid of those rail panels. I'm all for function over form, but those things look like shoe insoles on the rails.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:26 PM
I see, accepting a gift of free iron sights is a wrong, and finding a way to COMPLETELY fix that mismatched set is also. Who do you bloody think you are even?

I'm just an AR-15 guru.
Who are you?

mif_slim
04-28-2010, 1:28 PM
^ do you go to battle everyday? :) just sounded like it how you said it. hehe.

edit: to till44 not ar15barrels. LOL

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 1:29 PM
I'm just an AR-15 guru.
Who are you?
:cool2:

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 1:29 PM
I'm just an AR-15 guru.
Who are you?


A guy with a UTG rail on his blaster! So back off!

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:32 PM
It's not as light as some of the more expensive ones. THAT may be the whole point of expensive ones though, they're made of lighter weight alloy? I know it's not because of standardized rails or actual toughness of the product itself, or anything like that.

Pat Rogers has a term for people like you.
"They don't know what they don't know."

moshpit
04-28-2010, 1:32 PM
I currently own or have owned products from all of these companies except KAC. I earn enough that I don't have to shop by price alone. I don't see anything that warrants paying two or three times the price for an almost identical product. These are not high tech devices. You can only make them in a certain number of flavors.

Best quote ever. Brand snobs only hurt themselves. Not a single point in that thread showed a set of UTG hadguards failing. And the crybabies in this thread who attack and make threads as ugly as that last one linked to got and this one has, a few of you are bloody trolls about this subject. Not a SINGLE hard fact or data point to prove what you're saying, just a ton of ignorant brand whining without ONE article or ounce of proof. Disgusting.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:33 PM
The enlarged text shows where your GUESSING about the quality. No assumptions on my part, only yours. Admit when you don't know what you're talking about. You don't. You tried a .22 version??? And that qualifies you to judge all their products equally?

They don't make a 22 version.
He used the same thing that you have on a 22 build.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:35 PM
Hey Jerry, I went ahead and modified your banner - ya know - just in case you're convinced... ;)

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/dj_leisure/valk_tac.jpg

:rofl2:

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:36 PM
And I thought the XD vs Glock was bad.... :chris:

Oh, XD vs. Glock is nothing.
Start a Glock vs. 1911 thread, sit back and enjoy the show...

RAMCHARGER
04-28-2010, 1:37 PM
They are a bit on the heavy side compared to the rest but doable for a 40 dollar rail.. I ain't going to lie, I have one on one of the rifles.

I like the one gunRfun has in the bottom AR in his avatar pic. What is that?

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:39 PM
A guy with a UTG rail on his blaster! So back off!

http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/9/6/9/4/0/ar124939966204969.jpg

moshpit
04-28-2010, 1:42 PM
All I can say is prove it or shut it. At this point, not a one of you have PROVEN anything except that a good number of you are like little girls about your brand names. Show up or shut up seems a fair request. Otherwise, show us some more what kind of trolls you are like you've BEEN doing. All anybody has done to back up this brand childishness is point to ANOTHER thread where the ones who wasted a crap load of money have to defend their purchases by attacking anybody who doesn't do the same.

rct442
04-28-2010, 1:43 PM
I like the one gunRfun has in the bottom AR in his avatar pic. What is that?

Looks like a Magpul Moe handguard.

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 1:45 PM
All I can say is prove it or shut it. At this point, not a one of you have PROVEN anything except that a good number of you are like little girls about your brand names. Show up or shut up seems a fair request. Otherwise, show us some more what kind of trolls you are like you've BEEN doing. All anybody has done to back up this brand childishness is point to ANOTHER thread where the ones who wasted a crap load of money have to defend their purchases by attacking anybody who doesn't do the same.


I believe I explained in detail the problems I had with mine.

Edit: Posts #45, and #53.

rct442
04-28-2010, 1:46 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTG
UTG or Under the Gun is an airsoft brand that is owned by Leapers. Under the name UTG, the company began making airsoft accessories, including gun cases, vests and scopes as well as rebranding lower end Chinese-made guns from WELL, CYMA, AGM, and Double Eagle and packaging them with accessories.

<object width="1280" height="745"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_gdsy2FhCgY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_gdsy2FhCgY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="1280" height="745"></embed></object>

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 1:47 PM
All I can say is prove it or shut it.

Good point.

While we are at it, why don't you PROVE that the UTG rails are truly milspec, have type III anodizing and are as strong as other brands.
They certainly lack the features of the more expensive brands.

UTG have no anti-rotation feature.
UTG are heavy.
UTG are so wide that you can't get a good grip on them compared to the narrower rails of DD, LaRue, KAC and most others.
UTG rails don't follow the picatinny specs concerning the amount of space under the rail so some proper picatinny spec items won't fit them.
UTG are not free floating designs.

till44
04-28-2010, 1:51 PM
Best quote ever. Brand snobs only hurt themselves. Not a single point in that thread showed a set of UTG hadguards failing. And the crybabies in this thread who attack and make threads as ugly as that last one linked to got and this one has, a few of you are bloody trolls about this subject. Not a SINGLE hard fact or data point to prove what you're saying, just a ton of ignorant brand whining without ONE article or ounce of proof. Disgusting.

First, I don't think anyone is bashing you for using UTG rails. People just think that they are an inferior product to most of what's available. Check out some other forum, or maybe google "UTG rail failure". I have read plenty of stories of people stripping the threads on UTG rails, bending/denting them when hitting them on barricades (or one guy bent his when he tossed his Mosin on top of his AR in the trunk), or having mounts/grips/etc. not even fitting the rails. If the rail works for you good, you don't need to get permission from anyone here to use them.

And Mif_Slim, answers no, but classes and competitions put a lot of stress on your gear.

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 1:51 PM
Good point.

While we are at it, why don't you PROVE that the UTG rails are truly milspec, have type III anodizing and are as strong as other brands.
They certainly lack the features of the more expensive brands.

UTG have no anti-rotation feature.
UTG are heavy.
UTG are so wide that you can't get a good grip on them compared to the narrower rails of DD, LaRue, KAC and most others.
UTG rails don't follow the picatinny specs concerning the amount of space under the rail so some proper picatinny spec items won't fit them.
UTG are not free floating designs.


Good luck Randall,

he already proved me wrong in post #41.

UserM4
04-28-2010, 1:57 PM
This makes me want to go out and buy a UTG rail and do a review.

i1800collect
04-28-2010, 1:58 PM
This makes me want to go out and buy a UTG rail and do a review.

nobody's stopping you. ;)

juelz919
04-28-2010, 1:58 PM
moshpit you will be struck by lightning 5 times before you convince most of these people that a cheaper product can possibly be as good as a more expensive one. Trust me on these boards 90% have the "you get what you pay for" mentality.. I've tried multiple times with multiple different products and my experience has taught me to let other people spend their money how they see fit. And I will spend my funds as I see fit.
I figure once the zombies come i can grab an EOtech off one of these guys rifles and be Good-to-go

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:00 PM
moshpit you will be struck by lightning 5 times before you convince most of these people that a cheaper product can possibly be as good as a more expensive one. Trust me on these boards 90% have the "you get what you pay for" mentality.. I've tried multiple times with multiple different products and my experience has taught me to let other people spend their money how they see fit. And I will spend my funds as I see fit.
I figure once the zombies come i can grab an EOtech off one of these guys rifles and be Good-to-go

Another reasonable soul. I guess we're few and further between then I thought. This had seemed so much more reasonable of a forum before I got this wake up. I honestly hoped for real data on this. There isn't any such data, just a ton of brand snobs stuck on the almighty dollar as the final arbiter of worth. Well, they can have their Jordass's all they want and can shove em until they produce proof to back themselves up with. Levi's work fine for me, and leave me enough cash to get some nice socks to go with em (pistol grip upgrade)!

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 2:03 PM
Good luck Randall,

he already proved me wrong in post #41.

oh snap.
You're right.
Copying and pasting from the UTG website is definitely positive proof.

juelz919
04-28-2010, 2:06 PM
yes but we shall not judge them for their offenses : )
I am a college student everything I have was bought with budget in mind and I have never had one issue with anything.

The only place you'll ever get any crap for it is on these boards.
Never has anyone in real life said anything, and if they did I would show them my targets.
People might see me shooting my DTI rifle, my taurus pistol, or maybe my savage stevens rifle. But when they see the targets there is nothing to say. So I leave it at that..

With all that said some of these guys just have more money than me LOL. So in all reality I am slightly jealous, and also almost all of these guys are good guys. We defend our product and they defend theirs. It is the way of the world my friend

Hitman
04-28-2010, 2:06 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/15wxtef.jpg





So which type of "Bullet Button" gizmo did you go with on that rifle?

Which range did you go to for sighting it in? distance for your zero?

How do you secure the remote light switch? It seems to be just hanging in place.

just asking.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:07 PM
Good point.

While we are at it, why don't you PROVE that the UTG rails are truly milspec, have type III anodizing and are as strong as other brands.
They certainly lack the features of the more expensive brands.

UTG have no anti-rotation feature.
UTG are heavy.
UTG are so wide that you can't get a good grip on them compared to the narrower rails of DD, LaRue, KAC and most others.
UTG rails don't follow the picatinny specs concerning the amount of space under the rail so some proper picatinny spec items won't fit them.
UTG are not free floating designs.

The burden of proof is on you, the nay-sayer. I just posted what the company releases as specs. If you want to contest the company released data, be my guest. The burden of proof is yours, not mine. If everything I try mounts to it and stays that way, as far as I'm concerned, they told the truth and it's mil-spec. You're the one claiming it's not.

1. The weight thing is silly on your part to even mention, I told you that the difference isn't enough to cause me problems.
2. Anti-rotation feature? As in keeping the whole grip itself from rotating on the lug??? Are you nuts? This thing isn't "rotating" anywhere, anytime soon.
3. UTG grip was perfect and superior to my feel then the DD handgrip I tested. This is a personal preference, why did you try to make a point of it? Lame.
4. What items won't fit? I haven't met them yet. Eotech? Fine. YHM flip sights? Mounts fine. Tac light? Mounts fine. AFG? Mounted solidly. What items won't fit?
5. UTG rails make contact with the barrel where, exactly? If you mean they make contact with the gas block, then yes, that is true. But on my rifle, so does the DD and the YHM diamond, I have the M&P ORC (or OR, not sure as it was possibly mispackaged and the difference between OR and ORC is negligible). If you mean it actually is in contact with the barrel or gas tube in any other spot then the gas block, you are lying. It does nothing of the sort. Gas-block is only point of contact away from the receiver itself, and there is no contact with the barrel at that point either.

djleisure
04-28-2010, 2:13 PM
The burden of proof is on you, the nay-sayer. I just posted what the company releases as specs. If you want to contest the company released data, be my guest. The burden of proof is yours, not mine.
I can haz win now?

Omega 7 info from DD's site:

User Install
ZERO Modification to host weapon
True Free float
Integral QD Sling Swivel Mount with limited rotation
Light weight
Removable Lower Rail
Oval Shape to feel like traditional Hand Guards
Aircraft Grade 6061-T6 Aluminum
Military Specification Type III Hard Coat Anodized
8 Ounces!
Made in the USA!


Feel free to bold any of those you want.

rct442
04-28-2010, 2:18 PM
Attention folks, you're about to enter the butthurt zone!

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/f0/Butthurt_sign.png

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 2:20 PM
So which type of "Bullet Button" gizmo did you go with on that rifle?

Which range did you go to for sighting it in? distance for your zero?

How do you secure the remote light switch? It seems to be just hanging in place.

just asking.

He's in Texas, so he doesnt get to use the bullet button.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:22 PM
I can haz win now?

Omega 7 info from DD's site:

User Install OMG!!! You actually posted that as a point over UTG? Silliness, man, just plain silly.
ZERO Modification to host weapon And again, OMG, what silliness do you attempt to perpetrate upon me?
True Free float - yes, because mounting to the gas block makes a rifle worthless, whatever...
Integral QD Sling Swivel Mount with limited rotation So a 20 dollar item ratchets costs up that far? HAHAHAHA!
Light weight - I gave this one to begin with
Removable Lower Rail - And removable rails are ALWAYS more secure then permanent ones, whatever HAHAHAHA!!!!
Oval Shape to feel like traditional Hand Guards - HOLD ME BACK!!! Oval shaped???? I must have one now!!!!
Aircraft Grade 6061-T6 Aluminum - And here's where that 4 ounces was saved! Lack of any steel at all. Yeah, I'll put my bets on Alum over steel anyday, more whatever...
Military Specification Type III Hard Coat Anodized Hard Coat Anodized... sounds familiar...
8 Ounces! - Yes, because we all are so weak that 4 more ounces is gonna get you killed...
Made in the USA! So was the Pinto.


Feel free to bold any of those you want.

Okay :D

Lets begin. NOTHING there proved a damn thing! At least I had the decency, unlike you, to remove the worthless marketing fluff before posting marketing specs... :sleeping:

i1800collect
04-28-2010, 2:25 PM
Okay :D

Lets begin. NOTHING there proved a damn thing! At least I had the decency, unlike you, to remove the worthless marketing fluff before posting marketing specs... :sleeping:

Wait a second.

You get to post specs you took straight off UTG's site and it's all good. He posts specs he took of DD's site and it's now worthless marketing fluff. This game seems rigged.

Trapper
04-28-2010, 2:27 PM
i do get what you are saying and no offense intended to you at all, but judging from your post, you really don't understand rail systems.

Don't think he's ever dated a girl with Jordache jeans either. :)

djleisure
04-28-2010, 2:31 PM
Okay :D

Lets begin. NOTHING there proved a damn thing! At least I had the decency, unlike you, to remove the worthless marketing fluff before posting marketing specs... :sleeping:
Yep, ya got me. I'm out.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/12/5/633956211400551745-obvioustrollisobvious.jpg

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:31 PM
Wait a second.

You get to post specs you took straight off UTG's site and it's all good. He posts specs he took of DD's site and it's now worthless marketing fluff. This game seems rigged.

It's not. I removed the fluff before posting. He didn't. Made in the USA??? User Install? COME ON!!! That's silly. I removed those points because I figured to give a LITTLE more credit then that.

edit: I mistakenly thought I was dealing with professionals who knew how to install something as simple as a handguard. I now see I was mistaken. User Install must be an important point to make!

Hitman
04-28-2010, 2:32 PM
He's in Texas, so he doesnt get to use the bullet button.

Ok..I must have missed it. Thanks.

247Nino
04-28-2010, 2:35 PM
got a UTG rail on my GSG-5

it was truly a custom fit since the rail I used was for an airsoft mp-5 which doesnt match. thats a fACOG too and an airsoft stock. no mods on those.

with a 1x red dot I can plink a small bottle of zyrtec all day at 100yards...
thats all ive used this gun for... sad to say i wish i could use it for more but thats it.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6526/img0011bd.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7192/img0015vs.jpg

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 2:35 PM
Ok..I must have missed it. Thanks.


Its not in this thread, but in his very 1st post here on Calguns.

247Nino
04-28-2010, 2:37 PM
i forgot to mention; zombie squirrels hate me

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:40 PM
Its not in this thread, but in his very 1st post here on Calguns.

Is this a bad thing that I'm not saddled with such?

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 2:48 PM
Is this a bad thing that I'm not saddled with such?

Not at all, I was just clarifying.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 2:48 PM
The burden of proof is on you, the nay-sayer. I just posted what the company releases as specs. If you want to contest the company released data, be my guest. The burden of proof is yours, not mine. If everything I try mounts to it and stays that way, as far as I'm concerned, they told the truth and it's mil-spec.

If you stick your head in the sand and it's dark, would you believe that the sun has dissappeared?

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 2:51 PM
Made in the USA???
That's silly.

Indeed.
That's just silly.

gn3hz3ku1*
04-28-2010, 2:51 PM
Funny how a just returned from Iraq infantryman told me the only thing my rifle lacked for him to take it happily into combat after shooting it, was full auto mode. And he'd take off the light, but for HD it's fine. I'll take his word over the snobs I've seen posting anti-UTG smack-talk in this thread so far.
.
i got a perfrectly working utg rail before they were the uncool thing to do.. so you know i'm not anti utg.
but uhhh a just returned from iraq infantryman doesn't really make him a pro... ESP since he thought he had full auto....

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:53 PM
Indeed.
That's just silly.

As a point of quality? Yeah, it kinda is, isn't it. Racism doesn't figure into my shopping purchases. I don't assume less quality or more quality because of where it's made, only marketing driven sheeple do that. I find out for myself first.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:54 PM
i got a perfrectly working utg rail before they were the uncool thing to do.. so you know i'm not anti utg.
but uhhh a just returned from iraq infantryman doesn't really make him a pro... ESP since he thought he had full auto....

In my book, if you survive by your rifle and are paid to do so, successfully, you're a pro. Good enough for me at least. Better then most of the brand sheep I've heard from recently.

mlancaster
04-28-2010, 2:55 PM
i had that mentality at first until i ordered one.

1) i had to trim parts of it to get it to fit into the delta ring
2) it wasnt very light
3) fitment of the 2 rail peices wasnt the best
4) after a while the rail sat crooked and leaned to the right
5) you constantly need to tighten the bolts
6) it has a way of attracting dirt better than the SAmson/DD rails ive had


need i say more?
Since the quote above was posted AFTER the quote below I just wanted to clarify which rails were being spoken about :confused:

I hear MI rails are fantastic for the money. I wonder how they compare, or don't compare, with UTG rails.

NiteQwill
04-28-2010, 2:56 PM
Wow, this thread sucks... and it begins with the OP.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 2:57 PM
Wow, this thread sucks... and it begins with the OP.

No, I think it begins when the brand trolls started acting like a bunch of self-aggrandized snobs and crapped on this thread.

i1800collect
04-28-2010, 2:58 PM
Since the quote above was posted AFTER the quote below I just wanted to clarify which rails were being spoken about :confused:

Richie Caketown was commenting on his experience with UTG rails.

NiteQwill
04-28-2010, 2:58 PM
In my book, if you survive by your rifle and are paid to do so, successfully, you're a pro. Good enough for me at least. Better then most of the brand sheep I've heard from recently.

Are you kidding me? There are people who carry rifles every day and shouldn't be doing so.

gn3hz3ku1*
04-28-2010, 3:00 PM
In my book, if you survive by your rifle and are paid to do so, successfully, you're a pro. Good enough for me at least. Better then most of the brand sheep I've heard from recently.

sooo what's up with the full auto then?

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:01 PM
Are you kidding me? There are people who carry rifles every day and shouldn't be doing so.

Yeah, not everyone can pass the tests to get into the air force...
Some end up in the army and the marines.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:03 PM
sooo what's up with the full auto then?

Maybe he was a reservist.
Some of the reserves are still using old A1 and pre-A1 rifles that ARE full auto.
Maybe he was isreali.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:05 PM
Are you kidding me? There are people who carry rifles every day and shouldn't be doing so.

Are you kidding me? I know SOME soldiers can be rather dorkish and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but when they shoot straight, and accurate, what more do you want? I'm sorry, but so far, I haven't seen a single qualification for anybody in this thread that makes them more qualified then a US Army infantryman to tell me what punishment he feels comfortable giving a certain rifle. If he had then gone on to shoot like a carpal tunnel syndrome victim, I'd pay him less mind.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:10 PM
sooo what's up with the full auto then?

He said it rather off the cuff. You can put as much as you want to into the statement, but then focusing on that is a lot easier then the FAIL of the brand trolls to back themselves up worth a darn, which of course, the thread is about...

tomd1584
04-28-2010, 3:10 PM
Are you kidding me? I know SOME soldiers can be rather dorkish and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but when they shoot straight, and accurate, what more do you want? I'm sorry, but so far, I haven't seen a single qualification for anybody in this thread that makes them more qualified then a US Army infantryman to tell me what punishment he feels comfortable giving a certain rifle. If he had then gone on to shoot like a carpal tunnel syndrome victim, I'd pay him less mind.


Please explain the paces you've put this UTG rail through.

We know you've only had it on your rifle for about 2 weeks, from your previous posts.

edit: maybe an AAR?

NiteQwill
04-28-2010, 3:16 PM
Are you kidding me? I know SOME soldiers can be rather dorkish and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but when they shoot straight, and accurate, what more do you want? I'm sorry, but so far, I haven't seen a single qualification for anybody in this thread that makes them more qualified then a US Army infantryman to tell me what punishment he feels comfortable giving a certain rifle. If he had then gone on to shoot like a carpal tunnel syndrome victim, I'd pay him less mind.

I've lived in the sh*ts with 11B/C's alongside with me. I certainly know what punishment our rifles take and can attest that UTG will not survive the environment we live in.

Ever use a rifle to pry a door open? Smash windows? As crowbar when everything else inside your vehicle is blown up? After a firing a full battle load (and more) making it so damn hot you're tempted to piss on your own barrel?

shark92651
04-28-2010, 3:28 PM
Mosh, isn't the rail pictured on your rifle a non-free float version in that it sits on or locks into the end cap? (I could be wrong because I have an admitted very little experience with installing UTG handguards, although the one experience I had was very frustrating since it didn't mount properly at all) If so then YES a user-install with no special tools needed is indeed a feature for a true free-float rail like the DD Omega 7.0. Anytime a user can install a true free-float rail without having to punch out taper pins and replace barrel nuts is a nice feature.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:29 PM
I've lived in the sh*ts with 11B/C's alongside with me. I certainly know what punishment our rifles take and can attest that UTG will not survive the environment we live in.

Ever use a rifle to pry a door open? Smash windows? As crowbar when everything else inside your vehicle is blown up? After a firing a full battle load (and more) making it so damn hot you're tempted to piss on your own barrel?

Prying a vehicle door open, no, I expect the stock will break long before I'll have to worry about the handguards there. Seems like plastic will be more of a concern, wouldn't you say?

Smash windows? You are joking, right? I think I got that covered. As a crowbar? See the plastic stock statement. I'll have other parts of the rifle in trouble long before the handguard is. Things on the ends or sticking out. Or did that little bit of logic escape you while trying to shoot down UTG? Have you seen a UTG broken in combat is what you're saying? If so, I'm all ears.

The making it so hot you want to piss on it, yeah, done that. Several times already. She handles it just fine, no noticeable issues so far. Next?

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:31 PM
Mosh, isn't the rail pictured on your rifle a non-free float version in that it sits on or locks into the end cap? (I could be wrong because I have an admitted very little experience with installing UTG handguards, although the one experience I had was very frustrating since it didn't mount properly at all) If so then YES a user-install with no special tools needed is indeed a feature for a true free-float rail like the DD Omega 7.0. Anytime a user can install a true free-float rail without having to punch out taper pins and replace barrel nuts is a nice feature.

I guarantee that you are wrong and he's going to make you prove it before he believes anything you say.
He will have the luxury of posting from a manufacturer's website, but you won't be allowed such luxury.
You will be required to bring your own expert military witness to the table.
Blood and urine samples will be required of all witnesses.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:31 PM
Mosh, isn't the rail pictured on your rifle a non-free float version in that it sits on or locks into the end cap? (I could be wrong because I have an admitted very little experience with installing UTG handguards, although the one experience I had was very frustrating since it didn't mount properly at all) If so then YES a user-install with no special tools needed is indeed a feature for a true free-float rail like the DD Omega 7.0. Anytime a user can install a true free-float rail without having to punch out taper pins and replace barrel nuts is a nice feature.

Did not know that! Good to know. Thank you for not being like some of the others around here and just making your point with facts. That's rather refreshing.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:33 PM
I guarantee that you are wrong and he's going to make you prove it before he believes anything you say.
He will have the luxury of posting from a manufacturer's website, but you won't be allowed such luxury.
You will be required to bring your own expert military witness to the table.
Blood and urine samples will be required of all witnesses.

Shows how much you know, I posted in the same minute you did. Read and weep. You know nothing about me. I know you are a brand snob. Keep on trying! :D

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:35 PM
Did not know that! Good to know.

There's a lot you don't know.
We won't hold it against you though.

Shows how much you know, I posted in the same minute you did. Read and weep. You know nothing about me. I know you are a brand snob. I have one up on ya.

I know a lot about AR-15's.
I don't need to say how much because my reputation precedes me.

i1800collect
04-28-2010, 3:35 PM
Prying a vehicle door open, no, I expect the stock will break long before I'll have to worry about the handguards there. Seems like plastic will be more of a concern, wouldn't you say?

Smash windows? You are joking, right? I think I got that covered. As a crowbar? See the plastic stock statement. I'll have other parts of the rifle in trouble long before the handguard is. Things on the ends or sticking out. Or did that little bit of logic escape you while trying to shoot down UTG? Have you seen a UTG broken in combat is what you're saying? If so, I'm all ears.

The making it so hot you want to piss on it, yeah, done that. Several times already. She handles it just fine, no noticeable issues so far. Next?

oh. man. ladies and gentlemen, it just got very armchair commando in here.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:37 PM
oh. man. ladies and gentlemen, it just got very armchair commando in here.

Get your boots.
It's gonna get even deeper before it's over...

pvUXjmV3ZQY

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:40 PM
There's a lot you don't know.
We won't hold it against you though.



I know a lot about AR-15's.
I don't need to say how much because my reputation precedes me.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm thinking about what you can do with your reputation. The only rep you have with me is that you're a brand snob, and I've seen a thousand of you in the computer industry for 2 decades now. Big whoop.

NiteQwill
04-28-2010, 3:42 PM
Prying a vehicle door open, no, I expect the stock will break long before I'll have to worry about the handguards there.
Nope, the Troy ff rails didn't break. My buddy didn't use the barrel, he used the rail system.

Have you seen a UTG broken in combat is what you're saying?

Nope, because trash like that would never make its way to a Soldier whose life depends on a rifle.

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:45 PM
Honestly, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm thinking about what you can do with your reputation.

Why don't you tell me anyways.
It will help the length of our bans.

shark92651
04-28-2010, 3:45 PM
Mosh, please consider this a bit of constructive criticism - no need to take this personally as I am not merely trying to poke fun at you but to help educate you.

I think your credibility on arguing about the merits of cheap vs expensive rail systems is called into question based on your approach to getting your front and rear sights to line up. Yeah, I suppose it works for you, but seriously, come on - who is going to take your experience with rail systems and AR15's seriously after that? You should have sold the gas-block height front sight and just replaced it with the proper rail-height front sight and then you wouldn't have had to buy the riser and mess with your sight height at all. If you have flip up sights then what is the point of putting your EOTech on a riser? Also, what is the point of an upper height railed gas block to fit in the gap in your handguard that is there for a standard front sight? Why not just get a solid long rail to go over a low-profile gas block? It appears your approach is to spend as absolutely little as possible on your AR and you are OK with using combinations of parts that aren't really designed to go together. Fine, but you don't need to call the rest of us snobs and tell us we are all throwing our money away because some of us like to pay more to do things right the first time.

And yes Randall (AR15Barrels) does know what he is talking about. He freakin builds these things on a lathe for crying out loud and you have had this AR, which you admit is the first rifle you have ever owned, for what - a month? Again, not trying to insult you but a man needs to know when to open his mouth and when it is best to shut it and open his ears and eyes instead.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:46 PM
Nope, the Troy ff rails didn't break. My buddy didn't use the barrel, he used the rail system.



Nope, because trash like that would never make its way to a Soldier whose life depends on a rifle.

And there you go again. "Trash" is what you are typing, you have nothing to back that statement up with except a few trolls with as much time as you seem to have to devote to being one. That self superiority complex of yours is a little on the thin side, get over it. IN the meantime, while you brand whiners keep this drivel up, this thread continues downhill.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 3:49 PM
Mosh, please consider this a bit of constructive criticism - no need to take this personally as I am not merely trying to poke fun at you but to help educate you.

I think your credibility on arguing about the merits of cheap vs expensive rail systems is called into question based on your approach to getting your front and rear sights to line up. Yeah, I suppose it works for you, but seriously, come on - who is going to take your experience with rail systems and AR15's seriously after that? You should have sold the gas-block height front sight and just replaced it with the proper rail-height front sight and then you wouldn't have had to buy the riser and mess with your sight height at all. If you have flip up sights then what is the point of putting your EOTech on a riser? Also, what is the point of an upper height railed gas block to fit in the gap in your handguard that is there for a standard front sight? Why not just get a solid long rail to go over a low-profile gas block? It appears your approach is to spend as absolutely little as possible on your AR and you are OK with using combinations of parts that aren't really designed to go together. Fine, but you don't need to call the rest of us snobs and tell us we are all throwing our money away because some of us like to pay more to do things right the first time.

And yes Randall (AR15Barrels) does know what he is talking about. He freakin builds these things on a lathe for crying out loud and you have had this AR, which you admit is the first rifle you have ever owned, for what - a month? Again, not trying to insult you but a man needs to know when to open his mouth and when it is best to shut it and open his ears and eyes instead.

OH, so what I take from that is, this Randall has a VESTED interest in selling expensive handgrips because that raises his bottom line. Thank you for educating me on that detail, I didn't realize I was threatening his pocketbook. No wonder the trolls have come out so thickly, money always makes people get loud and nasty.

shark92651
04-28-2010, 3:52 PM
OH, so what I take from that is, this Randall has a VESTED interest in selling expensive handgrips because that raises his bottom line. Thank you for educating me on that detail, I didn't realize I was threatening his pocketbook. No wonder the trolls have come out so thickly, money always makes people get loud and nasty.

Nope, I sell rails - Randall builds barrels and uppers using whatever components his customers request.

It appears the bulk of my last post fell on deaf ears. Oh well I tried. Enjoy the mud slinging - I'm out :D

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:57 PM
you have had this AR, which you admit is the first rifle you have ever owned, for what - a month? Again, not trying to insult you but a man needs to know when to open his mouth and when it is best to shut it and open his ears and eyes instead.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4146662&postcount=1

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 3:59 PM
OH, so what I take from that is, this Randall has a VESTED interest in selling expensive handgrips because that raises his bottom line. Thank you for educating me on that detail, I didn't realize I was threatening his pocketbook. No wonder the trolls have come out so thickly, money always makes people get loud and nasty.

I don't sell parts anymore.
I only do installations and custom work now.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 4:00 PM
Nope, I sell rails - Randall builds barrels and uppers using whatever components his customers request.

It appears the bulk of my last post fell on deaf ears. Oh well I tried. Enjoy the mud slinging - I'm out :D

Then you missed the part where I said the sights were given to me for free and the riser was a cheap and effective answer to a mismatched gift, and so seek to discredit me over that? Lame. You do business with this attitude? I know you keep claiming to not want to insult, but then you say things like that which are intentionally forgetting details I posted so you can discredit my points?

Let me repeat this for you, since "credit" over my picture is at stake (geeze, I didn't think this was kindergarten, but here goes) Mismatched iron sights given as a gift, 20 dollar fix put the problem right. How does that discredit me? I didn't want to blow 50 bucks on another front sight and have one then laying around unused? I think you're really stretching with that one.

Edit: And SOLD the front sight? I guess YOU may have tons of friends who need to buy such a part, I don't. Most of my friends are pretty well set for front sights, sorry your plan wouldn't have any bearing on reality for my needs :/

Funniest part of this? Reading you both say "It works, but it's wrong". My riser solution works, and doesn't break off or cause any problems (yet, I'll give that one, 6 months from now I may be cursing the riser and spring for a new front sight, or I might not). So, it's working, and working very accurately, you cannot deny that, you just don't like my solution. Too bloody bad. Neither of you have any say over my "credit".

In fact, I'm questioning the professionalism of anybody in this as a business who argues about it on forums. And statements like "FAIL" (talk to your partner about that one a few pages back), yeah, that's GOT to be in the big book of how to act professionally when interacting on forums of the same subject as their business. I know I'm just falling all over myself to buy something from you guys now!

i1800collect
04-28-2010, 4:04 PM
Let me repeat this for you, since "credit" over my picture is at stake (geeze, I didn't think this was kindergarten, but here goes) Mismatched iron sights given as a gift, 20 dollar fix put the problem right. How does that discredit me? I didn't want to blow 50 bucks on another front sight and have one then laying around unused? I think you're really stretching with that one.

That's all well and good. What I'm still a little confused about is 5 days ago you had this:

http://i41.tinypic.com/73jv4h.jpg

You stated in your OP you had matching YHM front and rear backup irons. Why the riser and mismatched sights now?

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 4:08 PM
That's all well and good. What I'm still a little confused about is 5 days ago you had this:

http://i41.tinypic.com/73jv4h.jpg

You stated in your OP you had matching YHM front and rear backup irons. Why the riser and mismatched sights now?

Perhaps at that time, he did not know they were mismatched because he had not shot with the irons yet.
I can look at them and tell you they are mismatched just because I know how tall a gas block and a rail mount YHM front sight are.

IsaacGlass
04-28-2010, 4:12 PM
But if you do use a UTG rail, PLEASE get rid of those rail panels. I'm all for function over form, but those things look like shoe insoles on the rails.

I have UTG rails on my Siaga 7.62x39 and those rail panels you speak of arent a option, unless you want to burn your hands. UTG rails tends to retain heat or in other words dont dissipate heat as effectively which is why you need to use blue loctite on each bolt otherwise they do come lose quickly and can cause your mounted optics to tilt. I have had them for a little over a year worth of shooting and started to notice the rails are getting a little brittle and easily to chip. The second issue I have is the weight, shooting off a bench with sandbags is fine, but trying to hold it steady freehand after 100 shots is a whole different story. My next rail is probably going to be a Samson K Rail.

gn3hz3ku1*
04-28-2010, 4:19 PM
okay guys this is getting off topic.. the UTG rails should be good enough for 99 percent of us who never ever take it into battle, that 1 percent might go to a few tactical classes.



Yes the other brands are probably better than UTG but they come with the cost. A cost that's not really worth it for all the guys who only take it to the range but for some who like to pretend they will take their rifle into battle it is well worth it.

I'm cheap on some of my parts because i realize I WONT BE TAKING IT INTO BATTLE. so please cut out all the i been into battle. YES I BELIEVE you and thank you for your service BUT you didn't go into it with your own personal rifle and unless you got triple tabs on your shoulders then you prob never ever worked for an unit that let's you pick what you want.

UTG > name brand for range heads who just sit on a bench all day
Name Brand > UTG for guys who pull trigger for uncle sam

end of story.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 4:20 PM
You stated in your OP you had matching YHM front and rear backup irons. Why the riser and mismatched sights now?

I thought and had been told they were matching at first, so only reported what I knew at that moment. But when the first attempt to zero was a complete failure, and the Eotech zero'd fine, while the irons would not (and looked way out of whack when co-witness was attempted), the gifter did come clean and say he thought they may not be matched after all. There's a high chance he mixed sets up on his rifles.

moshpit
04-28-2010, 4:23 PM
I'm cheap on some of my parts because i realize I WONT BE TAKING IT INTO BATTLE. so please cut out all the i been into battle. YES I BELIEVE you and thank you for your service BUT you didn't go into it with your own personal rifle and unless you got triple tabs on your shoulders then you prob never ever worked for an unit that let's you pick what you want.

UTG > name brand for range heads who just sit on a bench all day
Name Brand > UTG for guys who pull trigger for uncle sam

end of story.

That will work for me, very reasonable. I'm not intending to go to war anytime soon, so I think the UTG rails will make a nice lasting set. But if I was going to war, I doubt I'd be hauling a S&W either. This isn't a war rifle, those who want to pretend that's where their rifle is going to end up, buy the expensive ones, it makes pretending so much more fun :p

thefinger
04-28-2010, 4:34 PM
moshpit accuses knowledgeable calguners of being unknowledgeable.

moshpit accuses knowledgeable calgunners of being "brand snobs" while he is a huge UTG fanboy and is willing to fight to the death to defend UTG's honor.

moshpit picks fight with most senior calgunners and basically accuses them of bashing UTG in order to make profit.

moshpit is a noob and has AR15 set-up that makes other calgunners (the knowledgeable ones) chuckle.

moshpit doubles his post-count by trolling this thread hard, and accusing other calgunners of being trolls.

gn3hz3ku1*
04-28-2010, 4:43 PM
moshpit accuses knowledgeable calguners of being unknowledgeable.

moshpit accuses knowledgeable calgunners of being "brand snobs" while he is a huge UTG fanboy and is willing to fight to the death to defend UTG's honor.

moshpit picks fight with most senior calgunners and basically accuses them of bashing UTG in order to make profit.

moshpit is a noob and has AR15 set-up that makes other calgunners (the knowledgeable ones) chuckle.

moshpit doubles his post-count by trolling this thread hard, and accusing other calgunners of being trolls.
thefinger points the FINGER :) haha jkkkkk comon man you're not helping the situation haha

Noobert
04-28-2010, 4:43 PM
Talk about exponential growth in this thread!

IsaacGlass
04-28-2010, 4:44 PM
moshpit accuses knowledgeable calguners of being unknowledgeable.

moshpit accuses knowledgeable calgunners of being "brand snobs" while he is a huge UTG fanboy and is willing to fight to the death to defend UTG's honor.

moshpit picks fight with most senior calgunners and basically accuses them of bashing UTG in order to make profit.

moshpit is a noob and has AR15 set-up that makes other calgunners (the knowledgeable ones) chuckle.

moshpit doubles his post-count by trolling this thread hard, and accusing other calgunners of being trolls.

Shall I cook up another batch of :popcorn:

L4D
04-28-2010, 4:45 PM
thefinger points the FINGER :) haha jkkkkk comon man you're not helping the situation haha

What are you talking about? This is a pretty good summary of the thread.

moshpit accuses knowledgeable calguners of being unknowledgeable.

moshpit accuses knowledgeable calgunners of being "brand snobs" while he is a huge UTG fanboy and is willing to fight to the death to defend UTG's honor.

moshpit picks fight with most senior calgunners and basically accuses them of bashing UTG in order to make profit.

moshpit is a noob and has AR15 set-up that makes other calgunners (the knowledgeable ones) chuckle.

moshpit doubles his post-count by trolling this thread hard, and accusing other calgunners of being trolls.

IsaacGlass
04-28-2010, 4:46 PM
Talk about exponential growth in this thread!

Over a $50 rail :nuts:

gn3hz3ku1*
04-28-2010, 4:47 PM
Over a $50 rail :nuts:

for some: 40 dollars man! haha i paid more than 50 for mine.. I don't even think the OP has checked in yet

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 4:52 PM
This thread is full of win.

NiteQwill
04-28-2010, 4:55 PM
And there you go again. "Trash" is what you are typing, you have nothing to back that statement up with except a few trolls with as much time as you seem to have to devote to being one. That self superiority complex of yours is a little on the thin side, get over it. IN the meantime, while you brand whiners keep this drivel up, this thread continues downhill.
Interesting outlook on someone who continues to dig themselves into a hole they can't get out of.

Are you still down there?

All I hear is an echo.

L4D
04-28-2010, 4:55 PM
This thread is full of win.

Hai Randall, Can you fix my barrel?

ar15barrels
04-28-2010, 5:03 PM
Hai Randall, Can you fix my barrel?


Pm me details.

GTKrockeTT
04-28-2010, 5:10 PM
this thread is going nowhere. tons of opinions on this board and other forums already regarding UTG, enough for the OP to make a decision.

as far as i'm concerned, all the side discussion should have ended with this:

Mosh, please consider this a bit of constructive criticism - no need to take this personally as I am not merely trying to poke fun at you but to help educate you.

I think your credibility on arguing about the merits of cheap vs expensive rail systems is called into question based on your approach to getting your front and rear sights to line up. Yeah, I suppose it works for you, but seriously, come on - who is going to take your experience with rail systems and AR15's seriously after that? You should have sold the gas-block height front sight and just replaced it with the proper rail-height front sight and then you wouldn't have had to buy the riser and mess with your sight height at all. If you have flip up sights then what is the point of putting your EOTech on a riser? Also, what is the point of an upper height railed gas block to fit in the gap in your handguard that is there for a standard front sight? Why not just get a solid long rail to go over a low-profile gas block? It appears your approach is to spend as absolutely little as possible on your AR and you are OK with using combinations of parts that aren't really designed to go together. Fine, but you don't need to call the rest of us snobs and tell us we are all throwing our money away because some of us like to pay more to do things right the first time.

And yes Randall (AR15Barrels) does know what he is talking about. He freakin builds these things on a lathe for crying out loud and you have had this AR, which you admit is the first rifle you have ever owned, for what - a month? Again, not trying to insult you but a man needs to know when to open his mouth and when it is best to shut it and open his ears and eyes instead.