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View Full Version : Fresno Co. Policy Change on PD shooting incidents


greasemonkey
04-27-2010, 4:15 PM
Your thoughts?

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/04/24/1909688/da-drops-policy-to-probe-fresno.html

The Fresno County District Attorney's Office has decided to end a long-standing practice of probing all Fresno Police Department officer-involved shootings -- leaving the city's new police auditor as the only check on internal investigations.
Elizabeth Egan said her department, crippled by the budget crisis, can no longer afford to routinely investigate incidents in which Fresno police officers wound or kill a civilian.

POLICESTATE
04-27-2010, 4:18 PM
This is bad.

N6ATF
04-27-2010, 4:28 PM
Prone em out, bro, any "furtive movements", 2 weeks off!

Nose Nuggets
04-27-2010, 4:30 PM
copy don't go to Fresno.

BigDogatPlay
04-27-2010, 4:39 PM
Sounds like they need to get a county protocol put together so another agency comes in and does the core investigation and then makes any recommendations to the DA.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't put something like that in place. Fresno PD isn't that big, IMO.

Maestro Pistolero
04-27-2010, 4:40 PM
This is dangerous for everybody.

Beelzy
04-27-2010, 4:45 PM
Glad I have Armor.........Seriously.

berto
04-27-2010, 4:51 PM
I hope it's a ploy for funding. I fear it will be implemented.

Roadrunner
04-27-2010, 5:06 PM
It sounds like the FBI will be very busy in Fresno.

Shotgun Man
04-27-2010, 5:16 PM
Was the DA actually filing on cops for unjustified shootings?

It rarely happens. DAs seldom have the courage to question law enforcement.

They probably reasoned why waste all this time and money pretending they're conducting an impartial, unbiased investigation when they know they're going to judge the shooting as justified anyway.

greasemonkey
04-27-2010, 10:28 PM
I hope it's a ploy for funding. I fear it will be implemented.

Maybe similar to Sheriff Mims having to lay off some deputies and release some inmates, it's not like those were the only budget cuts she made, either...I think she's done pretty dang good with what she had to work with. And she's also been good about approving CCW's and being vocal about it.

This thing with the DA dropping the investigation of dept. use of deadly force puts me a bit on edge, though. FPD has a pretty substantial reputation for being a bit overzealous; and yes, I do understand the high volume of scumbags they have to put up with but the SO's deal with much of the same and they have a really good reputation around here...I don't really worry or think twice about seeing/encountering FSO, not so with FPD and I'm really not sure why there's such a difference.

Mstrty
04-27-2010, 10:37 PM
Prone em out, bro, any "furtive movements", 2 weeks off!

No! he said Fresno not EPPD.:D

Colt-45
04-27-2010, 10:40 PM
:eek: Good thing only the Sheriff and the CHP come around where I live. Last time we needed help from the cops they said we were outside the city limits and therefor couldn't help us.

Maybe similar to Sheriff Mims having to lay off some deputies and release some inmates, it's not like those were the only budget cuts she made, either...I think she's done pretty dang good with what she had to work with. And she's also been good about approving CCW's and being vocal about it.

I do too, I'd like to nominate her for sheriff of the year.

big red
04-27-2010, 10:54 PM
Sounds like she is announcing open season on the citizens of Fresno. No serious oversight into killing by an officer is unthinkable. If her office cannot handle it how does she expect one person, the police auditor, to do it? something really stinks to high heaven here.

greasemonkey
04-27-2010, 11:08 PM
Sounds like she is announcing open season on the citizens of Fresno. No serious oversight into killing by an officer is unthinkable. If her office cannot handle it how does she expect one person, the police auditor, to do it? something really stinks to high heaven here.

No, I believe the police auditor/DA investigation issue is with the City PD, not SO. Read through the article, it's a good read, pretty short, too.

SVT-40
04-27-2010, 11:27 PM
copy don't go to Fresno.

More like. Don't go to Fresno and commit crimes.

greasemonkey
04-27-2010, 11:37 PM
More like. Don't go to Fresno and commit crimes.

This^^. The violent crime really does seem to stay inter-scumbag here for the most part. Obviously the petty theft stuff typically isn't inter-scumbag because thieves are pretty good about targeting weak victims but even at that, not very many of the thefts/home invasions involve actual use of deadly force (definitely brandishing/threatening, though). Save for one instance where some D-bag shot a beer truck driver for no reason at all, that's just so many levels of wrong.

cbn620
04-28-2010, 2:56 AM
Whole thing stinks. This after a record breaking year. Cops involved in repeat shootings are still on duty without nary a slap on the wrist. I think I read the other day 25 or 27. It's good they brought in the independent investigator, but what action has he taken? Something has to be done at this point.

SVT-40
04-28-2010, 10:34 AM
Whole thing stinks. This after a record breaking year. Cops involved in repeat shootings are still on duty without nary a slap on the wrist. I think I read the other day 25 or 27. It's good they brought in the independent investigator, but what action has he taken? Something has to be done at this point.

Why shouldn't they still be on duty? The independent investigator obviously found the shootings to be justified.

Good job FPD stay safe.

cbn620 instead of ragging on the cops maybe you should realize it's the criminals, who because of their actions cause LEO to shoot them. Not the other way around.

Cop's don't just go out and say.... Well I think I'll go out and shoot someone today.

99.999 % of the time if you get shot by the police it's your own fault!!


As far as "something has to be done". Right on,. put the criminal felons away.

REH
04-28-2010, 10:52 AM
I think this is the same bluff that Sheriff John McGinness Sacramento Sheriff used on the board of supervisors about CCW’s, when they talked about cutting his budget.

GuyW
04-28-2010, 11:52 AM
Elizabeth Egan said her department, crippled by the budget crisis, can no longer afford to routinely investigate incidents in which Fresno police officers wound or kill a civilian.

Damn, that's convenient...

Ummm - don't UOC here...
.

IrishPirate
04-28-2010, 11:53 AM
Your thoughts?

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/04/24/1909688/da-drops-policy-to-probe-fresno.html

The Fresno County District Attorney's Office has decided to end a long-standing practice of probing all Fresno Police Department officer-involved shootings -- leaving the city's new police auditor as the only check on internal investigations.
Elizabeth Egan said her department, crippled by the budget crisis, can no longer afford to routinely investigate incidents in which Fresno police officers wound or kill a CRIMINAL, and they shouldn't have to.

^^fixed it^^

It's funny how people here complain that we civilians should be able to protect ourselves without fear of prosecution, but then scoff at officers who put their lives on the line every day (ESPECIALLY in Fresno!!) for defending themselves. Sure, the Det. Tuason's of the world need to be kept in check, but treating every cop like a criminal for using the gun they are required to carry in order to keep the peace? come on....If something is wrong, the Auditor will probably have the power to call in an investigation, but if it's clear cut SD and justified....why waste money? I'm sure this system will have its problems too, but Fresno is Nationally ranked as a dangerous city. Would you want to go police the worst of the worst scumbags if you thought that you were going to lose your job and your life's work over some technicality during a shooting? Probably not.....I'm sure you're all happy with your desk jobs. Hats off to Fresno PD for trying......hopefully their budget gets under control and they can hire more cops to get the city under control.

(before you flame me, i grew up around Fresno and have lots of family there.....I'm very familiar with it on a personal level, not just what the media tells me.)

BigDogatPlay
04-28-2010, 12:02 PM
Whole thing stinks. This after a record breaking year. Cops involved in repeat shootings are still on duty without nary a slap on the wrist.

If the shootings were good, what's the problem? Why should anyone, LEO or law abiding citizen, be taking any kind of punishment for a good shooting?

Untamed1972
04-28-2010, 12:06 PM
How many shootings a year are they having there that would make it such a burden to independently investigate them?

If there is really that many going on then perhaps there is greater issues to be looked at?

mif_slim
04-28-2010, 12:25 PM
Dang, Fresno at it again?! We're like the drunkest city already!! LOL no more bad rep need added!

greasemonkey
04-28-2010, 12:51 PM
Why shouldn't they still be on duty? The independent investigator obviously found the shootings to be justified.

Good job FPD stay safe.

Yep, we've had more than a few L.E. involved shootings the last couple of years where it seemed to be cut and dry good shoots, I really can't think of any we've had recently that were questionable; I'm just uncomfortable with a layer of check/balance being removed.

big red
04-28-2010, 1:19 PM
Does not sound like the FPD has changed much since I was there in the 1970's. We always thought the police department in "Smokey and the Bandit" was modeled after them.

greasemonkey
04-28-2010, 1:54 PM
^^fixed it^^

It's funny how people here complain that we civilians should be able to protect ourselves without fear of prosecution, but then scoff at officers who put their lives on the line every day (ESPECIALLY in Fresno!!) for defending themselves. Sure, the Det. Tuason's of the world need to be kept in check, but treating every cop like a criminal for using the gun they are required to carry in order to keep the peace? come on....If something is wrong, the Auditor will probably have the power to call in an investigation, but if it's clear cut SD and justified....why waste money? I'm sure this system will have its problems too, but Fresno is Nationally ranked as a dangerous city. Would you want to go police the worst of the worst scumbags if you thought that you were going to lose your job and your life's work over some technicality during a shooting? Probably not.....I'm sure you're all happy with your desk jobs. Hats off to Fresno PD for trying......hopefully their budget gets under control and they can hire more cops to get the city under control.

(before you flame me, i grew up around Fresno and have lots of family there.....I'm very familiar with it on a personal level, not just what the media tells me.)
Oh please, no one here is 'scoffing at officers', you're making a few generalized assumptions here. Does anyone else perceive that I am endorsing/implying "treating every cop like a criminal"?
When someone voluntarily takes a place of authority, they are (and should be) held to a higher standard.

You are right that hiring more cops gets a city 'under control' but in a police state kind of way. Criminals will still shoot at cops whether they face 5 or 10 L.E.'s.

IrishPirate
04-28-2010, 4:10 PM
Oh please, no one here is 'scoffing at officers', you're making a few generalized assumptions here. Does anyone else perceive that I am endorsing/implying "treating every cop like a criminal"?
When someone voluntarily takes a place of authority, they are (and should be) held to a higher standard.

You are right that hiring more cops gets a city 'under control' but in a police state kind of way. Criminals will still shoot at cops whether they face 5 or 10 L.E.'s.

calm down man, i wasn't speaking about you in particular.....I was talking about the site as a whole. There are plenty of people who think they should be able to shoot first and ask questions later, yet get all pissed off when a cop shoots someone. Yes they should be held to a higher standard, but they should also be treated with a higher respect. I'm not saying there aren't some bad seeds out there.....maybe you should have read my whole post......but in a city like Fresno, the cops are faced with more daily threats to their personal welfare than in most other cities and people should realize that.

I think you know that i didn't mean more police to create a police state...I meant Fresno needs to get its manpower up to a point where they are able to deal with the problems at hand. Anyone who lives there can tell you a few more cops in Fresno wouldn't be a bad thing.

greasemonkey
04-28-2010, 5:40 PM
I see your point, I got upset because you reflected on an anti-cop crowd that definitely does show up on this site that I don't think is present in this particular thread.

But having been here my entire life, I do disagree with you that Fresno could use more police, we have an oustanding Sheriff's dept and a city PD that is probably going through more growing pains than I'd like to admit; there are definitely city PD EVERYWHERE, you can't drive more than a couple blocks without seeing a few...the crime issues here, I don't feel, are a result of the low perceived officer-per-capita.

And, even though we've been so fortunate to not have any questionable officer involved shootings in a while, I'm absolutely not comfortable with substantially easing up on the investigations, I'm also not comfortable with easing up on the DA investigating civilian shootings(which I know will DEFINITELY not happen), do you seen how it seems to give just a little more free reign to PD without giving an inch to the rest of us? Just little, 'comfortable' increments.

advocatusdiaboli
04-28-2010, 7:08 PM
I'm kind of surprised they haven't put something like that in place. Fresno PD isn't that big, IMO.

It's Fresno that's why. I used to work for a firm that had it's HQ in SJ but went to Fresno for a couple of day a month. It grew so fast during the housing bubble that it outstripped it's infrastructure including public safety--and now with the crash they'll never catch up. Huge gang problems there--Madera County has to lowest median income and highest poverty rate of any county in California. It's a pit. I don't mean that all people there are bad, there are a lot of good people there including LEOs, but it's BG infested.