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winnre
04-27-2010, 11:31 AM
A local gun shop just told me that if I buy handguns via face to face private party transfer, and I buy enough of them in a short time, they need to report it to the ATF. News to me.

Any other thing to know to stay low and off the radar?

vega
04-27-2010, 11:36 AM
What I was told was if I PPT more than 3 handguns in the same day from the same FFL, they would have to report me to ATF. I was advised to do it one at a time.

rp55
04-27-2010, 11:36 AM
That is true. Wait at least 5 working days between handgun purchases.

If you like to stay below the radar keep your cash withdrawals from banks below $2500 with 2 days between them. Yes, the reporting limit is $10,000 but if you have someone who trusts you who works in a bank they will tell you that, in practice, reporting actually begins well below $10K.

ke6guj
04-27-2010, 12:02 PM
yes, if you buy more than one handgun from a specific dealer in 5 day period, that dealer is required to report that to ATF and local/state LE. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf

Unless you are flipping those handguns, dealing without a license, it isn't a big deal.

ih8ca
04-27-2010, 4:47 PM
The ATF rarely does anything. I have bought 5 to 10 handguns several occasions in Washington. They contacted my ffl when I bought a collection of 30 guns and my ffl told them I was ok and not reselling them.

97F1504RAD
04-27-2010, 5:55 PM
That is true. Wait at least 5 working days between handgun purchases.

If you like to stay below the radar keep your cash withdrawals from banks below $2500 with 2 days between them. Yes, the reporting limit is $10,000 but if you have someone who trusts you who works in a bank they will tell you that, in practice, reporting actually begins well below $10K.

Wow, wait a minute here and explain this. Your telling me that if and when i withdraw 2500.00 or more of my money form my bank account that the bank is reporting this to some Government Agency?

Who and why are they reporting this to?

B Strong
04-27-2010, 6:51 PM
yes, if you buy more than one handgun from a specific dealer in 5 day period, that dealer is required to report that to ATF and local/state LE. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf

Unless you are flipping those handguns, dealing without a license, it isn't a big deal.

Correct.

I once went on a real tear with a certain dealer, who for whatever reason all of a sudden had a bunch of consignment guns I had to have.

After over a dozen handguns in a month, I never heard a word or had a problem with the DOJ.

I think I still have all of 'em, and that was years back.

B Strong
04-27-2010, 6:55 PM
Wow, wait a minute here and explain this. Your telling me that if and when i withdraw 2500.00 or more of my money form my bank account that the bank is reporting this to some Government Agency?

Who and why are they reporting this to?

It's called "Know Your Customer" and it's the real deal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

anthonyca
04-27-2010, 6:55 PM
Wow, wait a minute here and explain this. Your telling me that if and when i withdraw 2500.00 or more of my money form my bank account that the bank is reporting this to some Government Agency?

Who and why are they reporting this to?

I had some teller ask me why I wanted so much of my own money. F her, and F big brother.

B Strong
04-27-2010, 6:59 PM
I had some teller ask me why I wanted so much of my own money. F her, and F big brother.

They will give you the third degree no matter what you tell them, and if you ruffle the wrong feathers I have no doubt that they can pass along that info to people who won't wish you well.

Bobshouse
04-27-2010, 7:24 PM
Thank God we live in the land of the free and the brave.

Octane
04-27-2010, 7:25 PM
I had some teller ask me why I wanted so much of my own money. F her, and F big brother.

"KYC" is similar to the ATF reporting = Oftentimes it's no big deal.

If a customer replied to a teller asking the PATRIOT ACT required question like ^THIS^, the situation becomes much more suspect, and a much bigger deal. All of a sudden, the bank customer is going to have a very bad experience.

How do I know??? I've been a bank manager for 6+ years.

Treat your bank employees like you would want to be treated. They don't care how you're going to spend the money. They're just trying to do their jobs under increased government pressure and requrements.

-B

bandook
04-27-2010, 7:30 PM
Wow, wait a minute here and explain this. Your telling me that if and when i withdraw 2500.00 or more of my money form my bank account that the bank is reporting this to some Government Agency?

Who and why are they reporting this to?

It is reported to the IRS. I think this is to keep track of tax evasion/money laundering activity.

97F1504RAD
04-27-2010, 8:11 PM
It's called "Know Your Customer" and it's the real deal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

What a complete load of crap that is. I knew the Patriot Act was bad but that is ridiculous

I had some teller ask me why I wanted so much of my own money. F her, and F big brother.


I am with you I would promptly tell them it is none of their business what or why I am withdrawing my money. After all it is my money.



"KYC" is similar to the ATF reporting = Oftentimes it's no big deal.

If a customer replied to a teller asking the PATRIOT ACT required question like ^THIS^, the situation becomes much more suspect, and a much bigger deal. All of a sudden, the bank customer is going to have a very bad experience.

How do I know??? I've been a bank manager for 6+ years.

Treat your bank employees like you would want to be treated. They don't care how you're going to spend the money. They're just trying to do their jobs under increased government pressure and requrements.

-B

And they should refuse to do this. It is none of the governments business or the banks what I do with my money.

B Strong
04-28-2010, 5:39 AM
What a complete load of crap that is. I knew the Patriot Act was bad but that is ridiculous




I am with you I would promptly tell them it is none of their business what or why I am withdrawing my money. After all it is my money.





And they should refuse to do this. It is none of the governments business or the banks what I do with my money.

That's kind of like stating that a G-series FAL is only worth the original purchase price - nice sentiment, completely false.

Banks are beholden to the fed.gov.org for their very existence. The Fed issues orders, the banks follow.

If a bank employee on their own decided not to do as instructed, they'd be out of a job immediately.

As Octane stated, you as the customer have to play the game. I've been through it, and there is no legal obligation to tell the bank employee the whole truth.

97F1504RAD
04-28-2010, 7:45 AM
Then I will simply tell them I am withdrawing it to spend on whores and gambling

killmime1234
04-28-2010, 7:57 AM
As Octane stated, you as the customer have to play the game. I've been through it, and there is no legal obligation to tell the bank employee the whole truth.

Then I will simply tell them I am withdrawing it to spend on whores and gambling

I'd have no problem telling them the whole truth: I am withdrawing it to spend on whores and gambling and gun purchases. :p

anthonyca
05-04-2010, 5:31 PM
"KYC" is similar to the ATF reporting = Oftentimes it's no big deal.

If a customer replied to a teller asking the PATRIOT ACT required question like ^THIS^, the situation becomes much more suspect, and a much bigger deal. All of a sudden, the bank customer is going to have a very bad experience.

How do I know??? I've been a bank manager for 6+ years.

Treat your bank employees like you would want to be treated. They don't care how you're going to spend the money. They're just trying to do their jobs under increased government pressure and requrements.

-B

I understand this, that is why I acted like I didn't hear her and she did not ask again.(I was talking to someone else in the bank that I knew at the time she asked)

My broker explained the PATRIOT ACT to me and gave me some examples. Odds are that anyone here with money has been asked these questions by one of YOUR financial advisors who is a forced government spy. It is VERY scary. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea does not know what the PATRIOT ACT is or is a weak person who thinks big brother is always there to help and take care of them.

Dr Rockso
05-04-2010, 5:41 PM
As Octane stated, you as the customer have to play the game. I've been through it, and there is no legal obligation to tell the bank employee the whole truth.

Is there any obligation to tell them the truth at all? Say I'm withdrawing $10k to buy a car, can I just tell them that I'm building a parade float to raise awareness of the dangers associated with inebriated firewalking?

Octane
05-05-2010, 7:59 AM
Is there any obligation to tell them the truth at all? Say I'm withdrawing $10k to buy a car, can I just tell them that I'm building a parade float to raise awareness of the dangers associated with inebriated firewalking?

I'm not going to comment on if you should tell the truth or not.

If it is $10,000.01 or more in cash, they fill out additional paperwork, typically called a Large Currency Transaction Report (CTR). The CTR supercedes the Patriot Act requirements and is more detailed. This is used (again) to track money laundering and kiting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_transaction_report

Again, this isn't a big deal if you're going to go buy a car in cash, or something of the sort that happens occationally.. It happens every day across our country and it's no big deal. BUT, if you were to come in once a week to withdrawal $10k+ for (insert reason here), then the pattern of the CTR's are looked at more closely.

Oh, and if you are DEPOSITING $10k+, a CTR is also generated.

And if you're thinking that you want to avoid a CTR by splitting up your deposit/withdrawal between days, that is also suspecious and is called "structuring", and raises more eyebrows that the original CTR would have.

-your local Banker

PS - none of this information is confidential or bank specific. Several laws have been passed that require ALL banks to conform to these requirements.

KI6RYC
05-05-2010, 8:19 AM
Wow, wait a minute here and explain this. Your telling me that if and when i withdraw 2500.00 or more of my money form my bank account that the bank is reporting this to some Government Agency?

Who and why are they reporting this to?

It's called the Bank Secrecy Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_secrecy_act) and there is some frightening stuff in there.