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peshmerga09
04-27-2010, 8:39 AM
I just registered with this forum- thank you for having a place for these subjects! I decided awhile back that I did not want to be unarmed, so I bought an OLL, a Monsterman grip, and I am now ready to buy the upper half. I do not want to have a giant arsonal, just one go to rifle. Because I will probably be shooting with m193, or m855, I figured I would get a 20" barrel for max velocity. I know a 16" is handier, but will it make the most of these rounds? I am going to buy a Stag Arms upper in any case, but now I am struggling with whether or not to go the bullet button/ flash hider/ pistol grip route, or just get a muzzle brake. I want to go somewhere and practice alot, but I don't want to piss people off with a "loudener". So I am stuck! Maybe a bullet button is so fast an easy to use it offsets any other issues-but I wouldn't know as I have never used one. Maybe a 16" barrel is worth the loss of velocity for handiness. I chose the Stag Arms because they are the least expensive and come complete with a rear sight. I know they are 1/9 twist- I don't want to buy rounds for almost a dollar each... I so appreciate your help. Hopefully I'll see some of you at the range soon.

ianS
04-27-2010, 8:43 AM
The good thing is its relatively easy and cheap to go back and forth between a MMG "featureless AR" and a pistol gripped bullet button AR. Try both and see which one works better for you and your needs. Its not like you'll be stuck with whatever you chooose. But do hold off on "evil" features like a flash hider for now in case you want to stick with a "featureless" MMG grip AR.

I prefer the shorter barrel for a handier urban defense rifle but that's me.

ar15barrels
04-27-2010, 9:50 AM
Get a mini 14.

ianS
04-27-2010, 10:03 AM
Get a mini 14.

What a good suggestion.

Argonaut
04-27-2010, 10:15 AM
What a good suggestion.

I agree, Less evil than a AR, no bullet button nonsense, a real gun, not some "Clone" and maybe 1/2 the cost. They might need some tune up to make shoot really well but so do the AR's. If (or when) we elect Jerry Brown and he decides to reinterpret the assault weapon law to make these OLL rifles not in keeping with the "intent" of the law, You will be OK.

ar15barrels
04-27-2010, 10:17 AM
If (or when) we elect Jerry Brown and he decides to reinterpret the assault weapon law to make these OLL rifles not in keeping with the "intent" of the law, You will be OK.

The next time the AW law gets re-interpreted, you can bet on it including ALL semi-automatic centerfire rifles, regardless of detatchable magazines.
That will include the SKS, Garands, Remington 7400's, mini 14's, M1A's etc...

ianS
04-27-2010, 10:19 AM
I agree, Less evil than a AR, no bullet button nonsense, a real gun, not some "Clone" and maybe 1/2 the cost. They might need some tune up to make shoot really well but so do the AR's. If (or when) we elect Jerry Brown and he decides to reinterpret the assault weapon law to make these OLL rifles not in keeping with the "intent" of the law, You will be OK.

It was a private "joke", issue, or whatever you wanna call it between me and AR15barrels. The Mini-14 is fine civilian defense rifle but I hope we don't turn the OP's thread into another CA legal AR vs. Mini-14 thread and address his concerns directly.

ar15barrels
04-27-2010, 10:21 AM
a real gun, not some "Clone"

Yeah, because there's NO WAY the Mini 14 could ever be considered to be a "Clone" of an M14.
Nobody would EVER think that.

Ruger even named it the Mini 14 so you would not confuse it with a real M14...

ianS
04-27-2010, 10:34 AM
Yeah, because there's NO WAY the Mini 14 could ever be considered to be a "Clone" of an M14.
Nobody would EVER think that.

Ruger even named it the Mini 14 so you would not confuse it with a real M14...

And SA named their version of the M14 the M1A so people won't confuse it with a real M14 as well. Both the M1A and Mini-14 in stock form are regularly panned as not being "worthy" for rigorous duties or whatever SHTF scenarios people fantasize about. The same can be said of AR uppers made by the likes of Stag Arms and CMMG compared to "Tier 1" AR's by Colt, FN, or Noveske. Are they inferior than a military grade M14 or M4? Yes. Are they unsuitable for plinking, target, and light defense duty that most civilians will likely use them for? No.

But better is better.

ar15barrels
04-27-2010, 10:48 AM
And SA named their version of the M14 the M1A so people won't confuse it with a real M14 as well. Both the M1A and Mini-14 in stock form are regularly panned as not being "worthy" for rigorous duties or whatever SHTF scenarios people fantasize about. The same can be said of AR uppers made by the likes of Stag Arms and CMMG compared to "Tier 1" AR's by Colt, FN, or Noveske. Are they inferior than a military grade M14 or M4? Yes. Are they unsuitable for plinking, target, and light defense duty that most civilians will likely use them for? No.

But better is better.

Yes, better is better.

ar15barrels
04-27-2010, 10:51 AM
It was a private "joke", issue, or whatever you wanna call it between me and AR15barrels. The Mini-14 is fine civilian defense rifle but I hope we don't turn the OP's thread into another CA legal AR vs. Mini-14 thread and address his concerns directly.

ah hell, what fun is it if everyone else misses the context?

www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=293373

Fot
04-27-2010, 10:57 AM
I just registered with this forum- thank you for having a place for these subjects! I decided awhile back that I did not want to be unarmed, so I bought an OLL, a Monsterman grip, and I am now ready to buy the upper half. I do not want to have a giant arsonal, just one go to rifle. Because I will probably be shooting with m193, or m855, I figured I would get a 20" barrel for max velocity. I know a 16" is handier, but will it make the most of these rounds? I am going to buy a Stag Arms upper in any case, but now I am struggling with whether or not to go the bullet button/ flash hider/ pistol grip route, or just get a muzzle brake. I want to go somewhere and practice alot, but I don't want to piss people off with a "loudener". So I am stuck! Maybe a bullet button is so fast an easy to use it offsets any other issues-but I wouldn't know as I have never used one. Maybe a 16" barrel is worth the loss of velocity for handiness. I chose the Stag Arms because they are the least expensive and come complete with a rear sight. I know they are 1/9 twist- I don't want to buy rounds for almost a dollar each... I so appreciate your help. Hopefully I'll see some of you at the range soon.


I would see if you can find some calgunners local and try out both combo's. Personally I'm thumb-tarted and can't imagine giving up the pistol grip so went with a BB

And ignore the AR- mini 14 pee-pee match going on here.

nrvnqsrxk
04-27-2010, 11:08 AM
What is a "loudener"? You should be doing your shooting at a range or on private property, so it shouldn't piss of your neighbors that much. Like others have said, try going to the range with calgunners and see which configuration you like best. Personally I'm going to go the BB route when I build mine, because I can't get over the featureless options. Or maybe I'm just snooty and am prejudiced against them.

Fot
04-27-2010, 6:45 PM
What is a "loudener"? .

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peshmerga09
04-27-2010, 10:02 PM
A loudener is what people who dislike muzzle brakes call them- or so I have read. This is because gasses are allowed to exit sideways, making them noisier than flash hiders. I am trying to gauge whether I will be resented at the range for it. Also, I wonder if you guys think that a meaningful amount of fragmentation is lost when you go to a 16" barrel. I don't know anything about the mini-14 except all the posts slamming their innaccuracy without spending lots of money.

ianS
04-27-2010, 11:16 PM
A loudener is what people who dislike muzzle brakes call them- or so I have read. This is because gasses are allowed to exit sideways, making them noisier than flash hiders. I am trying to gauge whether I will be resented at the range for it. Also, I wonder if you guys think that a meaningful amount of fragmentation is lost when you go to a 16" barrel. I don't know anything about the mini-14 except all the posts slamming their innaccuracy without spending lots of money.

I got a muzzle break on my AR. No one's given me any crap or sent dirty looks my way for it so far. Of course maybe its that intense pissed off look I always have when I'm shooting. :D Seriously you don't need to feel self conscious about it. I don't get people who complain about noise or muzzle blast at a shooting range. Of course if you're shooting .50 BMG yeah, I'd appreciate it if you'd move a few lanes down if there's space.

According to DocGKR at M4Carbine.net you can't count on getting reliable fragmentation whether from a 20" or 16" with M193 or M855. Of course the longer the barrel the higher the chances at longer ranges. The best defense rounds for the AR are certain 62 grain or 75 grain .223 loads by Federal or Hornady TAP but they're expensive and often difficult to find. He recommends like any rifle shot placement and training will always be key compared to the kind of bullets you shoot.

As for the Mini-14 accuracy you really gotta shoot one to see if the accuracy is acceptable for you. For me and others it is. For others it isn't.

Sespe
04-28-2010, 11:51 AM
Gee, at the range last weekend my 'loudener' was sandwiched between a .338 lapua and a .300 win mag, both with brakes. One of them blew my notebook off the bench at one point. Didn't seem to get any complaints from them about the noise I was making...