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mydogsmonkey
04-26-2010, 2:31 AM
I have a question for you folks with more legal knowledge than me. say i have an ak that is in legal configuration and everything. now if i take the floorplate, follower, and spring out of my 10 round magazine, and gravity feed ammunition to my gun by shooting it upside down and can fit more than 10 rounds into my gun, is that considered a high capacity magazine, or rather by taking the floorplate, spring and follower out, is it considered manufacturing of one? just a late night question that i had coming up as i was admiring my ak builds, let me know what you guys think.

Ernest

Quiet
04-26-2010, 2:34 AM
Yes. It can be considered a large capacity magazine. Because it would be an ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.



Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

mydogsmonkey
04-26-2010, 2:46 AM
Yes. It can be considered a large capacity magazine. Because it would be an ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.



Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

so in layman's terms, california considers it a felony to take apart a magazine and shoot a gun upside down?

and in turn, would that mean having a gun with an empty magazine body installed with a mag lock would be considered an unregistered AW?

thank you kindly
Ernest

Rukus
04-26-2010, 5:42 AM
I would agree with Quiet on this. It could be considered a large capacity ammunition feeding device, but I think it would mostly depend on the LEO/DA assigned to a particular case. I think it would depend on circumstances, if they're gonna nail ya its gonna be for EVERYTHING.

-hanko
04-26-2010, 8:50 AM
so in layman's terms, california considers it a felony to take apart a magazine and shoot a gun upside down?

and in turn, would that mean having a gun with an empty magazine body installed with a mag lock would be considered an unregistered AW?

thank you kindly
Ernest
Comprehension...CA considers it against the law to use a mag with > 10 round capacity. Read the law...Upside-down shooting is still legal.;)

-hanko

mydogsmonkey
04-26-2010, 10:10 AM
Comprehension...CA considers it against the law to use a mag with > 10 round capacity. Read the law...Upside-down shooting is still legal.;)

-hanko

right but if you can feed a gun by gravity feeding, then say, my ak pistol with a 10 rounder, would be considered an AW if i took the magazine apart but just left the body in there right?

bigcalidave
04-26-2010, 11:12 AM
I highly doubt it would work either way. The recoil and lack of spring pressure would almost certainly make the rounds in the magazine fail to feed. Try it and let us know! Just put <10 rounds into the chute :P

motorhead
04-26-2010, 11:32 AM
violates the law of gravity. might start a new fad though, like the sideways handgun movie gangsters.

unusedusername
04-26-2010, 3:19 PM
I would guess that this would be the same thing as the difference between a broken semi-auto rifle that goes full-auto at the range, and a rifle that is modified to be full auto.

The difference depends on intent. Intent is determined at trial.

CSACANNONEER
04-26-2010, 3:24 PM
For those who want to properly compehend what hanko ment to say:

Comprehension...Depending on the firearm and it's configuration, CA considers it against the law to use a mag with > 10 round capacity. Read the law...Upside-down shooting is still legal.;)

-hanko

BKinzey
04-26-2010, 3:50 PM
If you could get the rounds to levitate then you wouldn't have to hold it upside down....:eek::biggrinjester::50::toetap05:

Josh3239
04-26-2010, 3:55 PM
violates the law of gravity. might start a new fad though, like the sideways handgun movie gangsters.

:iagree:

command_liner
04-26-2010, 4:00 PM
Sometimes you get lucky.

As it so happens, when the public comment period on the proposed 10
round wording was in place, I was the person that wrote to the Cal DOJ
and asked a very similar question. My proposed idea was with a semi-
auto 22 LR and a very carefully folded piece of cardboard. The idea
being to feed a whole carton of 22 rounds through a gun.

The DOJ assured me that my configuration was not one to be made
illegal. The logic was that the carton was the magazine, and it was
not really part of the gun, so there was no constructive possession or
illegal behavior.

I also specifically asked about a long tube full of rounds held at the
right angle to auto-feed into a tubular magazine 22 rifle, or any other
rifle. Also not a problem, at least so they said.

B Strong
04-26-2010, 5:49 PM
I highly doubt it would work either way. The recoil and lack of spring pressure would almost certainly make the rounds in the magazine fail to feed. Try it and let us know! Just put <10 rounds into the chute :P


Bingo!

Absent the spring pressure on the follower, I doubt that you could fire more than one round without a malfunction.

loather
04-26-2010, 5:59 PM
Absent the spring pressure on the follower, I doubt that you could fire more than one round without a malfunction.

But it's an AK. It'll continue to fire even if it's jammed. Hell, if the barrel turns white-hot, it'll still fire. I might want to drop it after it catches ablaze, but even then it'll still fire. :)

Table Rock Arms
04-26-2010, 7:58 PM
Pretty sure that would result in a large capacity failure to feed device.

mydogsmonkey
04-26-2010, 8:07 PM
alright then, i kinda doubt anyone has actually tried it and people are just making assumptioff what they believe may happen so i will try it. stay tuned for updates hopefully soon

BKinzey
04-26-2010, 11:20 PM
OK:):)

I'm going to pick 0. If he chambers a round, turns the rifle upside down and puts one or more rounds in the "gutted" mag only the chambered round will fire. The round(s) in the mag will jamb or miss feed. :cool2::cool2:

Anybody else venture a guess?

dantodd
04-27-2010, 7:37 AM
Please wait until after your 30th birthday to try something this foolish and dangerous. I'm sure by then the purposeless, self-destructive urge will pass.