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View Full Version : M&P Pistol... The new glock?


mwt1980
04-25-2010, 4:33 PM
Who agrees??

oh and i just bought an M&P 9. :25:

Richie Caketown
04-25-2010, 4:41 PM
those are fighting words ... no joke


if anything the SPringfield XD is becoming the new glock

Blackhawk556
04-25-2010, 4:50 PM
I went to a gun store yesterday and that mp sure felt good in my hand I'm not sure if you can say glock status but it does have nice features and many Leos trust them so that says a lot about the model

Richie Caketown
04-25-2010, 4:54 PM
M&Ps have ergonomics , adjustability , reliability , good features and come standard with ambi features other guns dont. Not too mention the cleaning /disassembly process is easy .

my only cons with M&P is their lack of product support , flimsy front end where the rail is, and no matter how you take care of them there is always 1 spot on the gun that always get this brown rust look to it ... ALWAYS!!!

sk8804
04-25-2010, 5:01 PM
i like the mp better than the glock that got me hooked on .40 cal.

RobT2K
04-25-2010, 6:14 PM
Where is this brown spot i have one and didn't notice?

KillZone45
04-25-2010, 6:16 PM
as a current XD owner I am hoping to add an M&P to the stable within the next year. They sure seem to be catching on though!

Deadpool
04-25-2010, 6:20 PM
I don't see why we can't just all get along. I started with a GLock, but I would like to own all three sometime soon.

ZombieTactics
04-25-2010, 6:25 PM
Why is there a need to deem something "the new Glock?"

neuron
04-25-2010, 6:30 PM
Why is there a need to deem something "the new Glock?"

+1.

Kinda like Chevy advertising their Impala as "the new Edsel..." Just kidding; I couldn't resist making a joke. :43:

Echidin
04-25-2010, 6:40 PM
A little off topic, but for your M&P owners, how is the trigger on the M&P?

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 6:57 PM
XD is not in the conversation...unless we are talking about the XDM. But since this is CA we're not.

I love Glocks, but my hope is to replace my 17 with the new M&P 9.

Plan on adding the Apex high performance sear... it should make the trigger like butter.

Picture this...a Glock with a 1911 trigger and accuracy...what do you get? the perfect pistol.

nn3453
04-25-2010, 7:00 PM
Picture this...a Glock with a 1911 trigger and accuracy...what do you get? the perfect pistol.

Don't know. Pretty happy with the trigger and accuracy of my Glock. How many rounds have you put through yours?

Tom Slick
04-25-2010, 7:03 PM
+1 Apex Tactical sear for the M&P and the trigger is 100% better. Drop in part, 10 min job.

The barrel design is nearly identical to Glock.

I like my M&P .40 a lot.

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 7:08 PM
Don't know. Pretty happy with the trigger and accuracy of my Glock. How many rounds have you put through yours?

2,000+ Rounds through my 17

nn3453
04-25-2010, 7:09 PM
2,000+ Rounds through my 17

And you're complaining about accuracy because? All wonder 9s shoot about the same. The variable is the guy behind it.

As far as trigger and other upgrades go, the Glock is probably the most modular and easy to work on semi-auto out there. For one aftermarket part on a M&P, there are about 10 choices on a Glock.

Heard of Vanek? Or Glockworx? Or any number of Glock custom shops out there?

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 7:19 PM
And you're complaining about accuracy because? All wonder 9s shoot about the same. The variable is the guy behind it.

As far as trigger and other upgrades go, the Glock is probably the most modular and easy to work on semi-auto out there. For one aftermarket part on a M&P, there are about 10 choices on a Glock.

Heard of Vanek? Or Glockworx? Or any number of Glock custom shops out there?

Dude I agree...I love my Glock...2nd pistol i ever owned.

And i am very accurate with it... but could be better....maybe this will be better/maybe not. We will see.

The Glock isn't out the door yet.

SPE
04-25-2010, 8:02 PM
Hate to sound obvious, but a Glock is a Glock. An XD is an XD. An M&P is an M&P. An M&P is NOT the "new" Glock, nor is an XD.

I have an XD and an M&P. Both have certain pros and cons, for me, and neither is perfect. By the same token, someone else with the same guns may have the exact opposite opinion of my pros and cons and like or dislike each of them for completely different reasons.

I don't have a Glock yet, but may eventually get one. And it will have its own pros and cons, for me.

I would love to take the pros of each and combine them into a new gun, and eliminate the cons. But I'd probably be the only person who liked all of those specific features.

RT13
04-25-2010, 8:05 PM
I believe that the M&P is the evolution of polymer pistols, and yes, it is the new Glock as far as reliability but it's better than a Glock. And it is gaining popularity almost as fast as Glock did when it first came out.

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 8:14 PM
I believe that the M&P is the evolution of polymer pistols, and yes, it is the new Glock as far as reliability but it's better than a Glock. And it is gaining popularity almost as fast as Glock did when it first came out.

+1

My thoughts exactly.

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 8:15 PM
[QUOTE=SPE;4185857]Hate to sound obvious, but a Glock is a Glock. An XD is an XD. An M&P is an M&P. An M&P is NOT the "new" Glock, nor is an XD.

A Glock is a Glock, an M&P is an M&P, and an XD is Garbage.

DannyZRC
04-25-2010, 8:22 PM
The Glock is the once and future Glock.

the XD is, to me, a smarter pistol than either the Glock or M&P in it's fundamental design choices, but its execution is weak in a couple areas.

neither the M&P nor XD are as simple and rugged as a Glock (this goes doubly for the M&P).

the M&P certainly has the best thought out ergonomy of any of these offerings, but it's packaged with significant technical shortcomings.

The Glock is the Glock because it's *essence of pistol*. there pretty much isn't anything on glock that you could take off and have the result still be a pistol.

it fits the bill for some, not for others, but it is what makes a Glock a Glock.

the gen4 glocks now have 1 feature that you could remove and have the gun still be a pistol, they're not quite so "perfect" anymore. (backstraps)

evidens83
04-25-2010, 8:32 PM
No, no its not the new Glock.

Ksmash01
04-25-2010, 8:39 PM
I wouldn't say it's the new glock.

That said, I love my M&P9.

P99 rules all though.


I'm just sayin.....Who would choose a glock over a P99?

There are more foolish people in the world, however......

Black Majik
04-25-2010, 8:45 PM
I'm just sayin.....Who would choose a glock over a P99?


I would. :)

Ksmash01
04-25-2010, 8:52 PM
and with a Kimber avatar...someone is surely on that otherness.

I can't get down with your kind.

I'm sorry you have an inferior preference.

(let me know if I've made anyone mad, I'm just playing with the glockomites)

goathead
04-25-2010, 8:54 PM
its not the new glock... glock is glock ,,, m&p is m&p but would love to get one

CA Gun Laws Suck
04-25-2010, 8:58 PM
I have never seen this happen to a Glock before! I do not think a M&P will ever be the new Glock. This gun saw a lot of rounds!

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 9:00 PM
Holy crap...how many rounds? that must have sucked for the shooter hahaha

CA Gun Laws Suck
04-25-2010, 9:19 PM
Couldn't even say, it was a rental gun...So it saw extreme use and little cleaning. The guns that last the longest are Glocks and when something does break on them, it is an easy fix.

goathead
04-25-2010, 9:20 PM
I have never seen this happen to a Glock before! I do not think a M&P will ever be the new Glock. This gun saw a lot of rounds!

wow that sucks

Cyc Wid It
04-25-2010, 9:32 PM
They are both ugly?

Bill Carson
04-25-2010, 9:33 PM
A Glock is like pizza. Pizza is the only food that has it's own category in the phonebook. It is not listed under restaurants. It is listed under pizza. glocks should not be listed under guns, they should be listed under GLOCKS.

DannyZRC
04-25-2010, 9:37 PM
A Glock is like pizza. Pizza is the only food that has it's own category in the phonebook. It is not listed under restaurants. It is listed under pizza. glocks should not be listed under guns, they should be listed under GLOCKS.

It is with great respect and admiration, and not a hint of irony or sarcasm, that I say this:

this is the most miraculously clear thought I have ever seen in my life. It may not be on the most important topic ever discussed, but god damn if it isn't pure god damned truth.

I salute you.

ih8ca
04-25-2010, 9:40 PM
I am really liking the M&P line.I bought a M&P in 357 sig. I am excited about shooting it.

nn3453
04-25-2010, 9:52 PM
+1

My thoughts exactly.

Explain why an m&p is better than a Glock. Really want to know.

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 9:59 PM
Explain why an m&p is better than a Glock. Really want to know.

Since i just purchased it today i will have to get back to you.

But i will say, it looks and feels better.

As far as reliability and accuracy... well the jury is still out on my end. Will let you know in 10 days.

loosewreck
04-25-2010, 10:10 PM
Only time will tell. Knowing Smith & Wesson they'll move on to another platform before Glock gives up the crown.

However, IMHO the M&P is S&W's best attempt out of their 3 to out Glock the Glock.

kimo308
04-25-2010, 10:12 PM
Explain why an m&p is better than a Glock. Really want to know.

I own many Glocks and love them but here is a pasted copy of my recent review on the M&P and why I think it is not only up there if not, better than Glock, but also the hyped up HK. I don't think the M&P is a newer Glock because it is better. But here are some of the reasons in my opinion as follows. M&P is more comfortable to grip and hold. Nice palm swells, changable backstraps and slide front serrations. And I know the newer Glocks are trying this out but I think they failed in every way with the new generation Glock design. Better sights, Better angle on M&P of course, Better design and definitely better looks. Thinner and actually an even lower bore axis on M&P. Less felt recoil on M&P, and M&P typical cost is a bit less than a Glock. More ergonomical controls also. To each his own of course.

"I just wanted to post a review of the M&P45. I have never posted a review on any guns but I really feel that this one deserves it. This one definitely does! I was surprised and very happy after taking this new gun out for the first time. And now, I can easily see why this was last year's gun of the year. Just so you know I am not biased in any way, I own alot of guns chambered in the .45 caliber, I own a Springfield Operator 1911 & Colt Gold Cup, Sig P220, P220 Carry and P220ST, Glock G21SF, Heckler & Koch USP45C and the HK45 (not USP).

I have heard and read nothing but good things about the M&P line from everyone, including people I know and talk to, some being loyal hardcore HK, Sig, and or Glock owners who now swear by this gun. At first, I wasn't convinced although I love the feel of this gun from the very first time I held one. So when I finally saw one that was priced right, I gave in and bought one. I wanted to see for myself what the hype is all about.

Took it home for a good cleaning, and inspected the entire gun. Upon very close inspection, I can say that the quality of this polymer framed pistol surpasses Glock and is atleast on par with my H&K's. Design, looks, feel and balance of this gun is amazingly perfect, atleast for me. The controls are very ergonomic and easy to reach with the thumb. The changable backstraps are very nice and will easily conform to every shooters hands. The medium strap which is already on the pistol suits me perfectly. The backstraps are easy to change unlike on other guns where you need to punch out the pin to replace that backstraps. The parts are high quality from the polymer frame, stainless slide, all the inner parts and finish. The entire gun is built clean and smooth without imperfections that I see on some guns today which cost twice as much, like on some Sigs today. Field stripping of the gun is very easy like a Sig. The only thing I don't care much for is the use of a tool or finger nail to bring down the sear deactivation lever for field stripping. But it's not a big deal. The finish is great and the grip stippling is just right. Not too rough and not too smooth. Grip is very nice and comfortable. The trigger does take some getting used to. Not the smoothest striker fired trigger and a bit heavier than Glocks, but it's not that bad at all, and the reset is short and sweet. I'll go on about the trigger later on. And from what I am hearing and reading, the trigger lightens and smooths out alot with use over time.

So, it's range time. Took my P220ST and HK45 along with the M&P45. My P220ST is the gold standard, the one I compare every .45 to as it is my best shooting .45. Ran 50 rounds through the Sig and then the HK, then ran 200 rounds straight, non stop through the M&P. All three ran perfect, flawless, and without any hitch. Reliability is definitely there for the M&P. Accuracy is awesome on all three. The M&P standing, free handed, slow single shots resulted in a 1-1 1/2 inch groups with some shots going in the same hole at 25 feet. Result at 25 yards the same way of shooting was very good also with about 4-6 inch groups. Fast follow up shots were almost just as accurate and consistent. By any means, I am not a great shooter with my tired blurry eyes and coffee drinking hands, and these guns are definitely more accurate than me, but the M&P was a blast to shoot. After running the first mag through, I had a big smile on my face. Can't believe what I just experienced from a polymer gun that cost under $600. Very low recoil for a polymer .45, soft shooting, and very smooth and easy to shoot. Accurate, reliable, and very enjoyable to shoot to say the least. Much more so than my HK45 and comparable to my P220ST, actually maybe slightly a softer shooter than my Sig. And as for that trigger everybody seems to complain about, including myself, it becomes unnoticable once you are actually shooting. The trigger pull feel becomes comparable to a Glock with the reset also similar. Very hard to notice any difference and it really becomes irrelevant during shooting. You just pull the trigger and it goes bang. The M&P is very thin for a double stacked pistol. And I believe the lower bore axis (lower than the Glock's), has alot to do with its soft recoil. For the price of under $600 this gun deserves every praise it gets and more. Despite the fast growing popularity of the M&P, I still feel it is very underrated and it should be compared to the big names without the higher price tag. I really love this gun and almost didn't want to shoot my HK45 after shooting it. I now kinda feel I fell into the whole HK45 hype after shooting this gun. If I would have bought this first, I probably never would have bought an HK45 hahaha. But NO it's not for sale....yet. Don't get me wrong, I love my HK45, but for what you get for the money, there's just no comparison to the M&P45. Smith & Wesson really really did it right this time. But I highly recommend everyone in the market for a .45 to shoot one of these first. It may surprise you like it surprised me. I thought it was gonna shoot and feel like my G21SF. This thing is much more fun and comfortable to shoot. Just an amazing gun. Plus you get 2 extra mags right now from S&W for a total of four ten round mags."

aca72
04-25-2010, 10:17 PM
IMO, "The new GLOCK" is the Walther P99...

... but I still love my GLOCK 9mm with all its [im]perfections.

imtheomegaman
04-25-2010, 10:18 PM
I have never seen this happen to a Glock before! I do not think a M&P will ever be the new Glock. This gun saw a lot of rounds!

Broken pistols are anecdotal typically. Any mechanical device will fail. Search "glock kaboom" on google. Of which I have personally witnessed for whatever that is worth.

bernieb90
04-25-2010, 10:38 PM
I have never seen this happen to a Glock before! I do not think a M&P will ever be the new Glock. This gun saw a lot of rounds!

My uncle runs an injection molding shop, and doesn't own any polymer guns. There are simply too many variables to control as far as getting perfect injection molded parts.

Here is stuff that has happened to Glocks.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g19_cracked.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g19_topless.html

Here is one similar to the M&P failure
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g17-breaks.html

The point is that all man made machines have finite limits to their endurance. Polymer, and even Aluminum alloy guns seem to fail unexpetedly much more often than their steel framed counterparts.

In general it seems that Glocks are most durable, and reliable when chambered in 9mm particularly the model 17. S&W did their homework, and seems to have an edge in durability/reliability over Glock in the larger service calibers (.40 and .45).

KillZone45
04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
[QUOTE=SPE;4185857]Hate to sound obvious, but a Glock is a Glock. An XD is an XD. An M&P is an M&P. An M&P is NOT the "new" Glock, nor is an XD.

A Glock is a Glock, an M&P is an M&P, and an XD is Garbage.

You're a joke pal:cool:

CA Gun Laws Suck
04-25-2010, 10:45 PM
Broken pistols are anecdotal typically. Any mechanical device will fail. Search "glock kaboom" on google. Of which I have personally witnessed for whatever that is worth.

My buddies Glock 19 went kaboom which was kind of funny (He wasn't hurt or anything) so it was funny because it wasn't me, but ya it happens.

mwt1980
04-25-2010, 10:52 PM
[QUOTE=mwt1980;4185941]

You're a joke pal:cool:

Why? Oh don't get your panties in a bunch over my XD comment. It was a joke.

I mean it is gun of the year and the guy at the gun store told me it has 7 safeties and that he bought one ...that's how good it is. Oh did I mention you Get a holster and a clip holder for free? Sooooo coool...and I mean come on Gun of the mother fricken year DUDE!

pacrimguru
04-25-2010, 11:10 PM
i have a glock 17 and an m&p 9 and while i do like my glock, i have to say that i much prefer shooting the m&p over the glock. grip and grip angle are just plain better.

AlliedArmory
04-25-2010, 11:31 PM
For me personally, I shot the M&P, XD and Glock all in 9mm before I purchased the G19. It just felt better for me and I shot it much better than the rest. Different for everyone.

Stanze
04-25-2010, 11:40 PM
My GLOCK 17 ROCKS! It fits my hand perfectly (w/ Hogue grip), I point it at things, look down the sights and it's aligned perfectly.

In the event of S.H.T.F./Zombie Invasion, I can install a select-fire slide back plate and slap a 33 round magazine for instant GLOCK 18!:43:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kBjUDCyDCuI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kBjUDCyDCuI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Let's see your XD/M&P/HK do THAT!:p

Greg-Dawg
04-26-2010, 3:52 AM
Glock...the new Hk VP70.
XD/HS-2000...the new Glock.
M&P...the new XD.

leitung
04-26-2010, 3:58 AM
I like my Glocks.. but.. I really like my 4006TSW more.. LOL FLAME ON..

Anyway, the thing that concerns me about the M&P is the light and short trigger pull, the glock is not really as light as the M&P.. it's almost like having a 1911 without a manual safety... yeah no..

RobG
04-26-2010, 6:50 AM
It will never surpass the Glock until the MP is used by hood rats, held sideways while fired, and called a "fo-tay":D

Black Majik
04-26-2010, 7:36 AM
It will never surpass the Glock until the MP is used by hood rats, held sideways while fired, and called a "fo-tay":D

Damn straight! An M&P hasn't gained Glock status until it's the international gangbanger gun.

50 cent would be embarassed to rock a M&P. :)

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 7:57 AM
those are fighting words ... no joke


if anything the SPringfield XD is becoming the new glock


How so? It's been out 10 years and is not touching the LEO market while the M&P is taking Glock market share for civi's and LEO's in a few years.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 8:00 AM
A little off topic, but for your M&P owners, how is the trigger on the M&P?


Stock horrible IMO, I'll update my experience with the DCAEK from Apex Tactical tomorrow :D

ianS
04-26-2010, 8:03 AM
50 cent would be embarassed to rock a M&P. :)


But then again rappers are rhyming about SIG Sauers now. I guess they don't like being stereotyped either.

do not **** with the kid,
i get biz with the SIG,
i'll come where ya live, ya digg? - 50 Cent "I Get Money"


"White wife beater with the Sig underneath it"- I'm So Paid, Akon Ft. Lil Wayne & Young Jeezy

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 8:04 AM
I would. :)


+1!!!

ianS
04-26-2010, 8:08 AM
I'm not sure if M&P's will take away Glock's dominance over the LEO market without a fight. Enter the Gen4. The M&P though has made the biggest dent of all the comers so far. The XD will remain a distant third IMO.

I own both Glocks and an M&P 9mm. I like the M&P but not enough to trade in my Glocks.

evidens83
04-26-2010, 8:23 AM
I say just get both :38:

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 8:28 AM
I like my Glocks.. but.. I really like my 4006TSW more.. LOL FLAME ON..

Anyway, the thing that concerns me about the M&P is the light and short trigger pull, the glock is not really as light as the M&P.. it's almost like having a 1911 without a manual safety... yeah no..


I don't know who's M&P you shot, but the stock trigger is 6-6.5# while the standard Glock's are ~5.5#

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 8:31 AM
I'm not sure if M&P's will take away Glock's dominance over the LEO market without a fight. Enter the Gen4. The M&P though has made the biggest dent of all the comers so far. The XD will remain a distant third IMO.

I own both Glocks and an M&P 9mm. I like the M&P but not enough to trade in my Glocks.


I will figure that out this year :43:

FWIW the 4G Glock is having many teething problems via m4C.net

Rock_Islander
04-26-2010, 8:34 AM
and with a Kimber avatar...someone is surely on that otherness.

I can't get down with your kind.

I'm sorry you have an inferior preference.

(let me know if I've made anyone mad, I'm just playing with the glockomites)

My cousin's got a Walther P99. He loves it. Although more for its looks or what not. It doesn't seem to be all that accurate, especially with that tiny little barrel. It looks like a compact sized pistol really, but with all this bulk sticking out of the slide profile. Unnecessary bulk and size. Plus the bore axis is high. Meaning that the barrel sits way up in the air, while your hand is "way down there". Not good for control.

Don't start with the Kimber bashing or 1911 bashing. The 1911 points naturally, has a better weight vs. recoil ratio, it's got the LOWEST bore axis out there, second is the Glock. So controlling those .45acp rounds is no sweat with a 1911 (Kimber or anything, etc). The barrel is a full 5 inches which not only ensures superior accuracy to a Walther P99, but it ensures more complete velocity of the cartridge that it shoots. Longer barrel, means more push and "umph!" from the gas propelling it. I'm sure you know that. It's definitely customizable with its grip panels, making slim grips the best choice for small hands, and full profile grip panels for larger hands.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 8:43 AM
I forgot to add my mini review of my first 200 rounds with my M&P or any M&P:

I'm about to hit the sack so I'm keeping this short for now. I really like the gun but it is an adjustment over shooting a Glock which I am use to so I need some practice to get proficient and consistent but I think there's a ton of potential but it's all up to me, time and $$$. The small grip was the most comfortable but it really slid around in my hand, the medium backstrap is what I'll stick with until I get more trigger time. It needs texturing pretty bad IMO and will get some down the line after Apex is done. I like the recoil characteristics and how the front sight lands in the same place every time when I have a good grip. I shoot it low for some reason and need to place the dot over the target with the factory sights I'm going to call Heinie to find out how they sight there's in before I send it to get installed, I prefer point of impact on top of the sights. The trigger sucks as I expected but the remedy is not far away and I short stroked it once in the 200+ rounds I shot tonight.

The first 5 shots at 7 yards :o
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/73b69064.jpg

Here is a mediocre 25 yard/ 75 feet 8 round group I shot standing unsupported with the last of the WWB I had, 7 of the 8 rounds were about 4 inches and the flyer on top made it about 5 1/2 inches.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/190dfdf6.jpg

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/16151433.jpg


It will be ready to ship to Apex very soon

ianS
04-26-2010, 8:48 AM
FWIW the 4G Glock is having many teething problems via m4C.net

Apparently the Gen4 G17's, which now uses the same recoil spring weight as the Gen4 G22's might be a tad heavier than it needs to be. Maybe "teething problems" is too strong a term since they seem to work fine after the recoil spring breaks in. But one thing for sure none of the previous G17's has had any hints of issues anywhere close to this. The G17's record has been pretty stellar even compared to other Glock models including other 9mm Glocks. Not anymore. Its too bad.

Nynvolt
04-26-2010, 8:50 AM
I always thought all other poly-guns were Glock knock offs?

Seriously, a friend was showing me her Sigma, it breaks down the same way and under the slide looks darn near identical to Glock.

Not knocking other poly-guns but why buy an imitation when you can own an origional and they are usually cheaper to boot.

I may be wrong but I think they are even copying the polygonal barrel rifling.

The only real argument for which is better, to me, boils down to ergonomics.

What law enforcement uses is a poor argument. I'm pretty sure XD, M&P and Glock all equally qualify for law enforcement usage, it's just a matter of cost.

ZombieTactics
04-26-2010, 8:53 AM
... But one thing for sure none of the previous G17's has had any hints of issues anywhere close to this. ...
I can't believe you can say (or write) this with a straight face.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 8:53 AM
Apparently the Gen4 G17's, which now uses the same recoil spring weight as the Gen4 G22's might be a tad heavier than it needs to be. Maybe "teething problems" is too strong a term since they seem to work fine after the recoil spring breaks in. But one thing for sure none of the previous G17's has had any hints of issues anywhere close to this. The G17's record has been pretty stellar even compared to other Glock models including other 9mm Glocks. Not anymore. Its too bad.


I know of the recoil spring break in for the G17, but here is what was posted today:

Same here on the finish. Pistol is also running very well with none of the rumored frame damage that some folks speak of.

frame damage? haven't seen that on a gen4. too much stupid crap on the internet :rolleyes:

We are hearing this info from LE agencies. So no Internet rumor here.

I have not seen it first hand and is why I asked if anyone has seen it.


C4

what kind of frame damaged is supposedly being reported about the gen4's?

I wish I had pics (as I would like to see it as well). A friend of mine that works in the firearms industry (on the LE side) gave me the info.

As I said, I have not seen it and is why I was asking the question in my earlier post.



C4

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 8:58 AM
What law enforcement uses is a poor argument. I'm pretty sure XD, M&P and Glock all equally qualify for law enforcement usage, it's just a matter of cost.


Pretty sure? Where can you cite your sources? The XD does not hold up during some trials from credible sources:

From DocGKR again:

Since 1985, at various times I have been issued, qualified with, or authorized to carry the Beretta 92F & M9, Sig P228 & P226, S&W 3913 & 5906, Glock 17/19, S&W 4013 & 4006, Sig P220, S&W 4513 & 4566, various 1911ís, as well as several S&W revolvers including J, K, L , and N-frames. I also have a fair degree of experience with Browning Hi-Powers, Glock 22/23 & 21, various HK pistols, as well as the recent S&W M&P pistols. I have been certified as an armorer on several of these systems. All of these handguns had both good and bad characteristics. I have been lucky to have gotten to travel around the country and world quite a bit and gotten to see what other units and agencies are using and assess how their weapon systems are functioning. There are many pistols which will give adequate service for routine law enforcement or military duty use. The number of pistols which are reliable, durable, and ergonomic enough for very demanding law enforcement tactical and harsh military special operations use is much smaller.

Unless your department picks your caliber for you, pick the platform you shoot best, then decide on caliber from there. Basically all the standard service calibers work when using good quality ammunition; the platform picked tends to dictate the caliber. Currently the best duty pistols going right out of the box are probably the 9 mm Glocks, any caliber S&W M&P, as well as the HK P30 and HK45.

For CCW and most urban LE duty, there are a lot of advantages in carrying a 9mm--easy to shoot one handed, relatively inexpensive to practice with, lots of bullets. When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a 1911...

While I am not a big fan of the .357 Sig, if I was issued one and had lots of free ammunition available, I would have no issues about carrying one on a daily basis.

If I was in a department that issued .40 or was doing a lot of LE work around vehicles, I'd be strongly tempted to carry a M&P40. Lots of 180 gr JHP's that do well against intermediate barriers is a nice thing. In addition, I really like having a manual safety on a pistol that is used for uniformed LE use; I have twice seen officers' lives potentially saved when another person gained control of an officer's pistol, but the engaged manual safety prevented the weapon from firing--I don't like to think about the outcome if the pistols involved had been a Glock, Sig, XD, revolver, etc... The M&P40 w/ambi safety and Performance Center sear will be the service pistol I'll pick if I ever go back to patrol duties again.

The nice aspects of .45 ACP is that it makes large holes, can be very accurate, and offers good penetration of some intermediate barriers. Unfortunately, magazine capacity is less than ideal, .45 ACP is more expensive to practice with, and in general is harder to shoot well compared with 9 mm. .45 ACP makes the most sense in states with idiotic 10 rd magazine restrictions, in departments that give you lots of free .45 ACP ammo, or in situations where modern expanding ammunition is restricted due to asinine, illogical regulations.

As I've said before:

If you want a Glock, get it in 9 mm...

The HK45 and HK P30 are good reliable service pistols, but beware of HK customer service and parts availability.

These days, skip new Sigs, although the older German made Sig 9 mmís are superb...

Unless you are issued one and have no other choice, forget Beretta.

XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.

The M&P may just be the best LE service pistol produced to date. I was involved in a M&P40 trial at a large agency where four M&P40's fired 7000 rounds each in 1 week without any significant problems. Up to this point, we have not seen any major problems yet with M&P's (primarily .40 & .45's).

A properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. Keep in mind with 1911 pistols that calibers other than .45 ACP and barrels shorter than 5" induce increasingly greater problems. I personally will not use any 1911 with a Schwartz firing pin safety (like on the Kimber II pistols) as I have seen high numbers of them fail; the Colt Series 80 firing pin safety is the only one I might trust for urban LE use, but they have also been known to fail in harsh environments (particularly surf zone and high dust) so I generally prefer a standard USG style 1911 pistol w/o firing pin safety. However, I personally would not choose to carry most stock or even semi-custom 1911's on duty without making sure they were set-up properly with reliable function, durable parts, and ergonomic execution. I firmly believe that if you want a 1911 for serious use, the minimum level of quality for a duty/carry weapon is the SA Pro model (either PC9111 or PC9111LR if you want a light rail); if youíre not willing to invest that much into the weapon system, don't get a 1911... I write this after being around quite a few 1911's over the past two decades of military and LE duty, including GI, commercial Colt, SA (Milspec, Loaded, MC Oper, Professional models), Wilson, Kimber, Nighthawk, Les Baer, and Para Ord, as well as custom pistols by folks like Bill Laughridge, Wayne Novak/Joe Bonar, Ed Brown, John Jardine, Hilton Yam, Larry Vickers, and Chuck Rogers. I'd strongly recommend anyone contemplating a 1911 for serious use read all of the material on 1911's here: http://www.10-8performance.com/Articles.html. For folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with the S&W M&P45 or HK45

In fact, these days, if I already didnít have several 1911ís that were as reliable as my 9 mm Glocks, along with extensive accessories for 1911ís, I would just use an S&W M&P instead.

Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to carrying it. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.

ianS
04-26-2010, 9:01 AM
I always thought all other poly-guns were Glock knock offs?

Seriously, a friend was showing me her Sigma, it breaks down the same way and under the slide looks darn near identical to Glock.

Not knocking other poly-guns but why buy an imitation when you can own an origional and they are usually cheaper to boot.

I may be wrong but I think they are even copying the polygonal barrel rifling.

The only real argument for which is better, to me, boils down to ergonomics.

What law enforcement uses is a poor argument. I'm pretty XD, M&P and Glock all equally qualify for law enforcement usage, it's just a matter of cost.

Of course the HK VP70 is the grandaddy of all polymer pistols but it didn't really go anywhere. It is Glock that refined the concept and popularized it. They're the ones that convinced the shooting public that a polymer pistol can be equal and possibly even better than a steel or aluminum framed pistol at a time when most people were almost violently resistant to the idea. Some still are. To this day anytime anyone makes fun of "plastic" its almost always referring to a Glock pistol even though there are plenty of other "plastic" pistols made since. To me it shows the bitterness some people still hold onto against Glock for the way they changed the handgun industry, for them for the worst.

Glock did sue S&W for patent infringement for the Sigma pistol. S&W settled out of court and altered the design of the Sigma a bit. Of course they then partnered with Walther to make their inferior version of the P99. And finally decided to invest some real capital into making a polymer pistol of their own the M&P. Internally there's no doubt Glock still had a strong influence on the M&P design. What disappointed me was that S&W didn't retain its utter simplicity and economy of design. Whether the M&P 9mm are on avg. as durable in the long run as the Glock 17 is still up in the air.

ianS
04-26-2010, 9:05 AM
I know of the recoil spring break in for the G17, but here is what was posted today:

If that's really true I hope Glock eventually goes back to the tried and true recoil springs for the Gen4 G17's. It was a cost saving measure by the bean counters at Glock to be sure so they don't have to make different recoil springs for each. Of course the dual recoil spring set up for the Gen4 G22 was a good move and a long time coming at that. I have yet to hear any issues with the Gen4 G22's.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 9:16 AM
I agree...

AMDG
04-26-2010, 9:30 AM
I blame the recent explosion of interest in the M&P on Chris and Travis.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 9:32 AM
I blame the recent explosion of interest in the M&P on Chris and Travis.


I also blame it on Apex and Todd Green

ZombieTactics
04-26-2010, 9:48 AM
... My uncle runs an injection molding shop, and doesn't own any polymer guns. ...
So I imagine that - just to be logically consistent - he never flies, drives or rides either ... because statistically he's at much greater risk in those instances?

... just keeping it real.

nrvnqsrxk
04-26-2010, 9:49 AM
Interest in the M&P has been high since it's release into the market in the law enforcement and military communities. I remember my friend talking about it when we were still playing airsoft because we weren't of age yet. It's renewed interest can probably be blamed on Magpul :)

ElvenSoul
04-26-2010, 9:53 AM
Well at least it is not the new high point!

ianS
04-26-2010, 9:56 AM
I also blame it on Apex and Todd Green

And those endless commercials on the Outdoor Channel and ads in every gun rag. S&W has also been giving similar aggresive deals like Glock to the LEO market. S&W is not playing around this time.

El Gato
04-26-2010, 9:59 AM
Let us get this straight...

the Glock is the New 1911 -

the M&P is a better glock...

and the XD is a warthog in pen of razorbacks... different tusks and a bit uglier...and I have a couple of all of them except the M&P and that is only because my wife hasn't bought more... she LOVES the M&P and she taught with a 1911 yesterday...

so... maybe it would be better to say that the glock is the 1911 concept brought forward 100 years...and the M&P/XD and maybe the sig 250 are brothers and sisters in same pew... all on the front row and giving the devil his due...

:cool2:

cmaynes
04-26-2010, 10:38 AM
its hard to top the simplicity, and general durability and ease of use of a G19. All guns can break, but I think I would rather break a Glock than any other handgun presently.

9mmepiphany
04-26-2010, 11:50 AM
Originally Posted by Nynvolt
I may be wrong but I think they are even copying the polygonal barrel rifling.
you are on two levels
1. H&K is best known for their introduction of polygonal rifling to the mass Western market. first with their G3 service rifle (H&K 91), their MP-5 SMG family, their P9S service pistol and P7 LE pistol...which all pre-dated the Glock...polygonal rifling dates back to the muzzle loading black powder rifle days
2. the Glock's polygonal rifling isn't true polygonal rifling as accepted in the firearms community...as seen on the H&K or the Kahr line of handguns

Legasat
04-26-2010, 11:57 AM
One of my favorite quotes:

"Glocks blow up, SIGs have a high bore axis, Beretta locking blocks break, Ruger is anti-gun, 1911s are unreliable, and HK hates you. Get over it, and go with what works for YOU."

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 12:06 PM
One of my favorite quotes:

"Glocks blow up, SIGs have a high bore axis, Beretta locking blocks break, Ruger is anti-gun, 1911s are unreliable, and HK hates you. Get over it, and go with what works for YOU."



Meh, all firearms have their strengths and weaknesses and I like to discuss them, that's what this board is for correct? What is silly though in just this past month seeing fanboi's get butt hurt if you mention that their gun of the month is not perfect, instead of trying to learn something.

Legasat
04-26-2010, 2:01 PM
Meh, all firearms have their strengths and weaknesses

I agree, and I beleive that's exactly what this quote means :eek:

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 2:06 PM
I agree, and I beleive that's exactly what this quote means :eek:



Yeah I guess it's half humorous and half truthful

CnCFunFactory
04-26-2010, 2:42 PM
Who agrees??

oh and i just bought an M&P 9. :25:

um, NO, not even close.

RobG
04-26-2010, 3:53 PM
Stock horrible IMO, I'll update my experience with the DCAEK from Apex Tactical tomorrow :D

Looking at that kit myself. Waiting for your opinions...

9mmepiphany
04-26-2010, 4:06 PM
the availability of the DCAEK from Apex is the only reason i'm again giving the M&P serious consideration. i was completely put off by the trigger feel of the stock trigger...i usually shoot a Sig 226.

how can you go wrong with a kit that cost less than the postage to send your M&P to Burrell. the nice thing is that Morro Bay isn't that far away if i just wanted to take a road trip and have the M&P later optimized

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 4:17 PM
Looking at that kit myself. Waiting for your opinions...


There's dozens of opinions on m4carbine.net, mp-pistols, 10-8forums etc...

I will post my findings tomorrow night :43:

Shenaniguns
04-26-2010, 4:18 PM
the availability of the DCAEK from Apex is the only reason i'm again giving the M&P serious consideration. i was completely put off by the trigger feel of the stock trigger...i usually shoot a Sig 226.

how can you go wrong with a kit that cost less than the postage to send your M&P to Burrell. the nice thing is that Morro Bay isn't that far away if i just wanted to take a road trip and have the M&P later optimized


Exactly! And fantastic Customer Service to boot :)

GM_77
04-26-2010, 4:37 PM
M&P the new glock?
Only when M&Ps get trolled on forums as much as Glocks do. Waiting for the first "M&P Kaboom... Kinda... Thread" :D :D

Richie Caketown
04-26-2010, 7:58 PM
ok here are my M&Ps

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/RichieCaktetownPhotography/IMG_2282.jpg?t=1272340596

now using my l33t photoshop skillz ive highlight the areas that get that brownish thing going .. the one on the left is my M&P9 while the right is an M&p45 . I swear you cant expose them to air , the M&P45 was just clean hence the silver look

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/RichieCaktetownPhotography/IMG_2284.jpg?t=1272340675

mwt1980
04-26-2010, 8:09 PM
ok here are my M&Ps

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/RichieCaktetownPhotography/IMG_2282.jpg?t=1272340596

now using my l33t photoshop skillz ive highlight the areas that get that brownish thing going .. the one on the left is my M&P9 while the right is an M&p45 . I swear you cant expose them to air , the M&P45 was just clean hence the silver look

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab175/RichieCaktetownPhotography/IMG_2284.jpg?t=1272340675


Correct me if i am wrong but that's not rust... That looks like specs of brass.

Richie Caketown
04-26-2010, 8:21 PM
no not the debris looking stuff on that metal inner rail , its starts to get brown there

elSquid
04-26-2010, 8:24 PM
But then again rappers are rhyming about SIG Sauers now. I guess they don't like being stereotyped either.

do not **** with the kid,
i get biz with the SIG,
i'll come where ya live, ya digg? - 50 Cent "I Get Money"


"White wife beater with the Sig underneath it"- I'm So Paid, Akon Ft. Lil Wayne & Young Jeezy

Haters be laughing like a pack of hyenas,
I be rockin' wit my Ballester-Molina.

Word to your mother.

-- Michael

Ksmash01
04-26-2010, 8:45 PM
My cousin's got a Walther P99. He loves it. Although more for its looks or what not. It doesn't seem to be all that accurate, especially with that tiny little barrel. It looks like a compact sized pistol really, but with all this bulk sticking out of the slide profile. Unnecessary bulk and size. Plus the bore axis is high. Meaning that the barrel sits way up in the air, while your hand is "way down there". Not good for control.

Don't start with the Kimber bashing or 1911 bashing. The 1911 points naturally, has a better weight vs. recoil ratio, it's got the LOWEST bore axis out there, second is the Glock. So controlling those .45acp rounds is no sweat with a 1911 (Kimber or anything, etc). The barrel is a full 5 inches which not only ensures superior accuracy to a Walther P99, but it ensures more complete velocity of the cartridge that it shoots. Longer barrel, means more push and "umph!" from the gas propelling it. I'm sure you know that. It's definitely customizable with its grip panels, making slim grips the best choice for small hands, and full profile grip panels for larger hands.

My P99 is slimmer, and shorter than my M&P. I can control it very well, because I know how to manipulate it, other than letting it manipulate me. I am very accurate with my P99, and I can hit a 1 inch sticker repeatedly at 10 yards.

Other than that, I'm just Kimber bashing. I love my SW1911's, and think they are the bees knees. It is more accurate than the P99, but I'm sure 9mm is faster than .45acp in any size pistol barrel.

speeedracerr
04-27-2010, 3:59 AM
Just got back from the range today shooting my brand new M&P 45 and I must admit... That pistol kicks butt!!! I love the pistol, very accurate and very tight groupings.

The only draw back I didn't like was the frame sag which is prevalent on the M&P45. Aside from the aesthetics, functionality is 110%

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 4:55 AM
Estimated delivery Apr 27, 2010 by 10:30 AM :43:

sd1023x
04-27-2010, 7:22 AM
SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT BROADCAST ANNOUNCEMENT

TRAINING BUREAU WEAPONS TRAINING

TO: ALL SWORN PERSONNEL

SUBJECT: OFFICER SAFETY ALERT - SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOLS


RECENT DEVELOPMENTS HAVE FORCED A DEPARTMENTAL RE-EVALUATION OF THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL AS AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL HANDGUN FOR SWORN PERSONNEL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL SIZE PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL ON-DUTY PISTOL.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P COMPACT PISTOL IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL OFF-DUTY PISTOL.

SINCE FIRST APPROVAL AS AN OPTIONAL PISTOL ON DECEMBER 10, 2008, THE FULL-SIZED AND/OR COMPACT VERSIONS OF THE 9MM SMITH & WESSON M&P PISTOL HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED BY 49 SWORN PERSONNEL ON AND OFF DUTY. ONE OF THESE PISTOLS WAS DELIVERED NEW WITH AN IMPROPERLY MACHINED BARREL THAT WOULD NOT EJECT SPENT CARTRIDGE CASINGS. ANOTHER OF THESE PISTOLS EXPERIENCED A BARREL FAILURE IN MID-APRIL OF THIS YEAR. AFTER FIRING LESS THAN 10,000 ROUNDS OF TRAINING AMMUNITION. THIS PISTOL BARREL BROKE INTO TWO PIECES JUST AHEAD OF THE FIRING CHAMBER.

ADDITIONALLY, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DEPUTY ACADEMY CLASS #377 RECRUITS WITH ISSUED NEW SMITH & WESSON 9MM M&P FULL-SIZE PISTOLS HAVE EXPERIENCED PHASE-2 PISTOL MALFUNCTIONS, CAUSED BY SPENT CASINGS FAILING TO EXTRACT FROM BARREL CHAMBERS, DURING THE PAST TWO WEEKS OF TRAINING. CLASS #377 RECRUITS WILL BE ISSUED BERETTA 92FS PISTOLS ON WEDNESDAY APRIL 29, 2009, AND THEIR M&P PISTOLS REMOVED FROM SERVICE.

PERSONNEL SAFETY AND RELIABLE EQUIPMENT REMAIN OUR PRIMARY CONCERNS.


DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS TO
LIEUTENANT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@LASD.ORG
SERGEANT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX@LASD.ORG AT THE B.C. RANGE.


LEROY D. BACA, SHERIFF KBL/SNDG

Looks like SW had a rough year last year. Have these been addressed? Couldn't find any SW comments on this.

Also in Atlanta...http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/Atlanta_Police_Guns_Recalled_by_Maker_060909

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 7:28 AM
Hahaha...MP is doomed, Fox doesn't like them!

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/Atlanta_Police_Guns_Recalled_by_Maker_060909


Looks like SW had a rough year last year.



Hopefully my Apex parts keep this from happening :p

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 7:31 AM
Since you added to it, I will say that I know a couple people that did have their barrel replaced on an older model which is why I held off on buying one for awhile.

Black Majik
04-27-2010, 8:03 AM
Other than that, I'm just Kimber bashing. I love my SW1911's, and think they are the bees knees. It is more accurate than the P99, but I'm sure 9mm is faster than .45acp in any size pistol barrel.

Don't hate on Kimber yo! They're the best 1911s in the world!

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 10:30 AM
WOW!!!! The trigger is 100% improved in smoothness, takeup, break and reset :D

Randy Lee and the Apex crew did a fantastic job on the Customer Service side and work performed, I can't wait to try this sucker out :cool2:

Black Majik
04-27-2010, 10:33 AM
WOW!!!! The trigger is 100% improved in smoothness, takeup, break and reset :D

Randy Lee and the Apex crew did a fantastic job on the Customer Service side and work performed, I can't wait to try this sucker out :cool2:

Dammit Richard. Stop selling your guns. No more stookie226r, no more g34 shooter, I can't keep track anymore. Congrats you M&P shooter. *snicker* :)

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 10:39 AM
Dammit Richard. Stop selling your guns. No more stookie226r, no more g34 shooter, I can't keep track anymore. Congrats you M&P shooter. *snicker* :)


HAHAHA :o That's why I'm just sticking with this name :p

nrvnqsrxk
04-27-2010, 10:56 AM
WOW!!!! The trigger is 100% improved in smoothness, takeup, break and reset :D

Randy Lee and the Apex crew did a fantastic job on the Customer Service side and work performed, I can't wait to try this sucker out :cool2:

How much did the upgrade cost you with shipping and time factored in? I was thinking about just upgrading the sear and striking block, but your positive review is causing me to reconsider.

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 11:06 AM
How much did the upgrade cost you with shipping and time factored in? I was thinking about just upgrading the sear and striking block, but your positive review is causing me to reconsider.


I mailed it Thursday last week and it is already back in my hands with the DCAEK, Extractor Upgrade, Sight Installation and Zero :eek:

The prices are listed here:
http://www.apextactical.com/services.php

Apex M&P Services:
Apex Ultimate Striker Block Installation: $55 plus s&h
Customers may send in their complete top end for installation of the Apex Ultimate Striker Block. Sending the complete gun is not necessary, only the top end (slide, barrel and guide rod assembly) is required for intallation, testing and zeroing.

Apex Level 1 Trigger: $110 plus s&h
This package includes installing the Apex Hard Sear and Ultimate Striker Block kits. The Apex Hard Sear and trigger bar are polished to run as smoothly as possible as part of this service.

Install Customer Supplied Sights: $45 plus s&h

Test Fire and Zero Sights: $20
**Price on Request for Apex to Supply Sights.




My installation wasn't exactly straight forward so I'm glad that Randy Lee clearanced the trigger bar where it was needed. It's rare to encounter such a problem but it happens:

It was the vertical extension that lifts the striker block as you pull the trigger. Your slide sits lower on the frame rails than most, so the top of the trigger bar was dragging along the underside of the slide as you pulled the trigger, as you removed and installed the slide on/off the frame as well as when the slide cycles.
All better now.
-Randy

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 8:49 PM
A few pics



With the sight in target

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/1be2e2cb.jpg

Heinie Ledge sights w/ tritium front

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/c05a96fc.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/242d6d60.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/0e8eb4cb.jpg

Apex's extractor upgrade
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/5c750735.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/b748e042.jpg

Shenaniguns
04-27-2010, 8:49 PM
continued

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/35dfbbe0.jpg

Polished feed ramp

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/75485ee9.jpg


Internals (No that's not jizz)

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/27ef404f.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/4d53fd1f.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/c4d463aa.jpg

Sam
04-27-2010, 9:01 PM
Nice m&p! I've been on the fence about one and may have to go shoot a rental. Could you give more specifics of the trigger after the apex parts? How does it compare to other popular pistols?

abusalim81
04-27-2010, 10:50 PM
Got a M&P 9c a while back and love the little guy! Reliability is 100% so far with just over a few hundred rounds.

nrvnqsrxk
04-27-2010, 10:55 PM
Wow, super pricey upgrades! But I bet it shoots like a dreeeam.

socalblue
04-27-2010, 11:19 PM
Looks like SW had a rough year last year. Have these been addressed? Couldn't find any SW comments on this.

Also in Atlanta...http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/Atlanta_Police_Guns_Recalled_by_Maker_060909

Resolved long ago. LASD is free to carry M&P full size & compact both on & off duty. The blow up was traced to a cadet that did some 'home gunsmith' work on the feed ramp.

Granted the M&P has had some teething problems, though not nearly as bad as Glock had (Or continues to have). S&W has replaced Glock in several agencies due to high failure rates. Time will tell ...

9mmepiphany
04-28-2010, 12:17 AM
Wow, super pricey upgrades! But I bet it shoots like a dreeeam
i can't tell if you're being facetious or if you just haven't had pistolsmithing done in a while :)

l8apex
04-28-2010, 1:43 AM
After owning both and shooting both extensively, I've reached my own personal conclusion.

FULL SIZE
M&P 9 Would be my 'full size' choice, even though the size seems somewhat between a G17 and G19. The trigger is close to the reset of the Glock, but lacking just slightly. This decision may change if I ever get a chance to shoot Gen4 as the ergonomics on the M&P 9 is better for me personally compared to the G17 Gen3.

MID SIZE
G19 Would be my choice for CCW mid to small size. The M&Pc is a bit too small for me, and prefer the slightly more purchase area of the G19.

SUB COMPACT
This may be a shocker, but I don't really like the M&Pc or G26 in this segment. Don't get me wrong, both very capable guns as I'm currently looking for a used G26 OD [should have never sold my old one!]. In this segment, HKP2000sk LEM gets the nod. Too much information for a quick post, will review at another time on my site.

gunrun45
04-28-2010, 4:22 AM
I can tell you that I have had several novice shooters buy M&P's and bring them to classes. ALL have had issues with developing decent trigger control due to the poor design of the M&P factory triggers. There is NO perceptable sear reset and once you DO learn where it is, you have reached out far enough to negate any real gain.

Literally, I have had several students bring me their guns with fear on their faces thinking that their guns are inacurate due to the dificult to master triggers found on factory varients of these guns.

I will pass and NOT buy one. Its a shame to as lefties are drawn to this gun due to its ambi design...

Shenaniguns
04-28-2010, 5:16 AM
Nice m&p! I've been on the fence about one and may have to go shoot a rental. Could you give more specifics of the trigger after the apex parts? How does it compare to other popular pistols?

I have not shot many other 'popular' handguns lately but compared to my Glocks it has a heavier but smooth initial pull with a crisp break at the end while my Glocks are almost like a 2 stage trigger with it lighter initially and then feel a wall of resistance before the break. The Glock's reset is still more pronounced but now the M&P is right there where you can feel and hear it easily.

Wow, super pricey upgrades! But I bet it shoots like a dreeeam.

Yeah that's cheaper than the ~$1k I put into a $1,600 1911 :rolleyes:


I can tell you that I have had several novice shooters buy M&P's and bring them to classes. ALL have had issues with developing decent trigger control due to the poor design of the M&P factory triggers. There is NO perceptable sear reset and once you DO learn where it is, you have reached out far enough to negate any real gain.

Literally, I have had several students bring me their guns with fear on their faces thinking that their guns are inacurate due to the dificult to master triggers found on factory varients of these guns.

I will pass and NOT buy one. Its a shame to as lefties are drawn to this gun due to its ambi design...


Apex's parts can fix that ;)

ianS
04-28-2010, 8:14 AM
According to Glock Inc. the S&W M&P hasn't affected Glock's market share so far. While I'm sure some Dept's switched from Glocks to M&P's, Glock was probably able to expand to other Dept's and perhaps untapped markets. Looks like S&W is gonna have to work harder to convince more Dept's and the shooting public at large to switch.

SMYRNA, GA, April 27, 2010:


GLOCK, Inc. announced today that the company experienced record sales in the 2010 fiscal year
(April 2009 – March 2010). While keeping their prices stable, GLOCK, Inc. has enjoyed not only
growth in their earnings, but has also gained market share.

“GLOCK, Inc. is extremely pleased with the increase in both sales and market share for 2010 and
have broken all previous sales records. These sales were strengthened by our newest
generation in pistols, the GLOCK 22 Gen4 and the GLOCK 17 Gen4,” explained Vice President
Gary Fletcher. “The Gen4 technology has enhanced our product line with several new design
features and we await the release of the GLOCK 23 Gen4 and GLOCK 19 Gen4 this summer.
Additionally, GLOCK is expanding its operations here in the United States with manufacturing and
exporting of our product made in the US. Our current orders are very strong and we expect to
maintain this momentum throughout fiscal year 2011.”

GLOCK, Inc. stays committed to producing the most reliable and durable products for more than
65% of Local, State and Federal Law Enforcement agencies in the United States. Being first to
implement the new Gen4 platform has been an easy decision for a few agencies. The
Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office in Tampa, Florida, the Charleston Police Department in
Charleston, West Virginia, the Kenosha Police Department in Kenosha, Wisconsin and the
Madison County Sheriff’s Office in Edwardsville, Illinois have enthusiastically adopted the new
Gen4 pistol.

GLOCK, Inc. also strives to serve the expanding consumer market by providing safe, simple and
fast products - giving our customers a customizable solution that provides the confidence
necessary to succeed and survive in any situation.

Incorporated in 1985, GLOCK, Inc. is a leader in the manufacturing and distribution of semiautomatic
pistols for the U.S. Law Enforcement, Commercial, Federal/Military and International
markets. They employ 197 employees at their United States headquarters in Smyrna, GA.

GLOCK, Inc. contact:

Shelley Decker | shelley.decker@glock.us | 770.432.1202

Black Majik
04-28-2010, 9:16 AM
I can tell you that I have had several novice shooters buy M&P's and bring them to classes. ALL have had issues with developing decent trigger control due to the poor design of the M&P factory triggers. There is NO perceptable sear reset and once you DO learn where it is, you have reached out far enough to negate any real gain.

Literally, I have had several students bring me their guns with fear on their faces thinking that their guns are inacurate due to the dificult to master triggers found on factory varients of these guns.

I will pass and NOT buy one. Its a shame to as lefties are drawn to this gun due to its ambi design...

In this case, I'd blame the novice shooter and not the gun. The stock triggers on the M&Ps are pretty bad, but in my opinion not bad enough to hinder a shooter to the point that it becomes inaccurate. That would just be the novice shooter needing to practice their trigger control. No one becomes proficient after one class.

I've fired a M&P done by Burwell, and shot the same pistol on its first day out. The trigger is night and day. I've also shot a XD40 done by Randy at Apex. They know what they're doing. With Scott Folk joining Apex, and having shot guns also worked over by him as well, I'm confident they can turn a stock M&P into one amazing shooting pistol.

9mmepiphany
04-28-2010, 10:30 AM
They know what they're doing. With Scott Folk joining Apex, and having shot guns also worked over by him as well, I'm confident they can turn a stock M&P into one amazing shooting pistol.
they have some great stuff out for the M&P and more stuff in the pipeline

1. their sear and FPB gives you a clean 4lb trigger pull with distinct reset
2. their duty setup bring the pull weight to 5.5lbs for folks who want a little more...bear in mind that most Glock 5.5lb triggers actually run about 6lbs
3. the have a competition setup that is looking at 2.5lbs
4. they have replacement extractors and are looking at triggers and trigger bars

Shenaniguns
04-28-2010, 10:47 AM
they have some great stuff out for the M&P and more stuff in the pipeline

1. their sear and FPB gives you a clean 4lb trigger pull with distinct reset
2. their duty setup bring the pull weight to 5.5lbs for folks who want a little more...bear in mind that most Glock 5.5lb triggers actually run about 6lbs
3. the have a competition setup that is looking at 2.5lbs
4. they have replacement extractors and are looking at triggers and trigger bars



The extractor is a beast and a pic can be seen of it from me in this thread for those that have not seen it.

5. A billet striker :cool2:

9mmepiphany
04-28-2010, 11:00 AM
5. A billet striker
oops...i forgot to mention the striker

you'd think i would remember, since i've actually seen one break during a class

Phireglass
04-28-2010, 11:04 AM
im goin to say something many will hate on... Glocks didnt used to be so popular, its just that they were issued to nearly everyone and the gun began to grow on em, yeah yeah yeah the glock is good some consider "the best", im MY opinion sick with a Smith N Wess or an XD.... here comes the hatin

Shenaniguns
04-28-2010, 11:07 AM
oops...i forgot to mention the striker

you'd think i would remember, since i've actually seen one break during a class


Randy suggested i replace my older style with a newer one to be on the safe side, I need to order one from S&W until Apex releases theirs :chris:

Shenaniguns
04-28-2010, 11:11 AM
im goin to say something many will hate on... Glocks didnt used to be so popular, its just that they were issued to nearly everyone and the gun began to grow on em, yeah yeah yeah the glock is good some consider "the best", im MY opinion sick with a Smith N Wess or an XD.... here comes the hatin



Where do you get your information from out of curiosity? And what makes you think the Croation made XD is so great?

Monticore
04-28-2010, 1:17 PM
I used to want an XD until I payed closer attention to the M&P. I want something super simple that my wife can grab and use with the minimal trigger time she will have. I was set on a Glock, but have switched gears to the M&P. I like the idea that if she panics, she has the option (if she's thinking clearly enough) to drop the mag and toss the pistol as bait and get back to her shotgun.
The tacticool side of me wants a USP or a two-tone sig, but so far I find the M&P a good middle ground.

Now my real reason for writing.
Where are the best prices in the SF bay area?

ianS
04-28-2010, 1:53 PM
I like the idea that if she panics, she has the option (if she's thinking clearly enough) to drop the mag and toss the pistol as bait and get back to her shotgun.



Your wife is the "bait" not the gun. She should drop the mag (if its possible) to temporarily disable the gun only if she believes the perp is about to take it from her, then go to whatever Plan B if possible. A mag disconnect can be be a good thing in that situation. (hold onto the mag if possible!) Otherwise she should be using the best chance to save her life at the moment, the thing she already has in her hands. And if she doesn't have the nerve to use the pistol to defend herself how likely will she use the shotgun and vice versa? They'll more likely be used against her. That's a more serious problem.

Monticore
04-28-2010, 2:34 PM
Your wife is the "bait" not the gun. She should drop the mag (if its possible) to temporarily disable the gun only if she believes the perp is about to take it from her, then go to Plan B. A mag disconnect can be be a good thing in that situation. (hold onto the mag if possible!) But if she doesn't have the nerve to use the pistol to defend herself how likely will she use the shotgun and vice versa? They'll more likely be used against her. That's a more serious problem.

The part that I left out is the "pep talk" I've given her in advance of having the pistol in her hand. She'll have our currently 9 month old daughter with her. She's talking a good game right now about the shotgun. We'll see about the M&P. So, the pep talk is "grab the gun and rack the slide. if it goes forward with a round having been ejected, you're ready, just with 9 instead of 10. if it goes forward without any rounds flying away, you have 10 shots. if it locks back, it's empty, get to your shotgun now." Once I get the pistol in her hand I will get more specific.

No manual safety was the first criteria I had.
The mag disconnect has become more of a must in my mind.
Plan B(get to shotgun) is our current plan A.

The more I can get her on-board with simplicity and features such as the mag disconnect, the quicker I can get the ok to buy it. The M&P seems like the best win-win. The family is more protected than before and I get to go have some fun with it.

Next is to get her to let me show her what to do with FTF's and FTE's.
You are right in that I have the thought of our firearms being used against her at some point. I'm putting most of my eggs in one basket here, relying on the M&P. I sure hope that time proves them to have the legendary reliability that Glocks have. Longevity is the only thing that had me waffle as long as I did.

So to bring this back to the OP's point.
For me the M&P is the new Glock, since I have decided against the Glock for now. Now as a second gun... that's another story.

ianS
04-28-2010, 3:00 PM
You wife should take a defensive pistol class if possible. (Its tough with a 9 month old but that's what you're there for.) I know most of the well known schools can be expensive but look around your area and ask here at Calguns for recommendations. Both you and your wife will feel better prepared after she takes at least one decent class. Lots of women take these classes on their own. Mindset, safety, weapons manipulation, tactical strategies, and legal considerations will be clearer and better retained if she gets taught by an instructor.

Oh, and the M&P is not the new Glock. The Gen4 Glock is the "New Glock". The M&P is the M&P.

Monticore
04-28-2010, 3:26 PM
You wife should take a defensive pistol class if possible. (Its tough with a 9 month old but that's what you're there for.) I know most of the well known schools can be expensive but look around your area and ask here at Calguns for recommendations. Both you and your wife will feel better prepared after she takes at least one decent class. Lots of women take these classes on their own. Mindset, safety, weapons manipulation, tactical strategies, and legal considerations will be clearer and better retained if she gets taught by an instructor.

Oh, and the M&P is not the new Glock. The Gen4 Glock is the "New Glock". The M&P is the M&P.

Good call on the class.

2 things:
Where are the best prices OTD on the M&P's?

I guess the M&P will be the new Glock when an officer is filmed shooting himself in the foot with one! haha

Southpaw45
04-28-2010, 4:28 PM
Smith and Wesson needs to stick with revolvers and leave the autos to Glock and others. Glocks rule!!!:38: JMTB

Shenaniguns
04-28-2010, 7:19 PM
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/5b1feca9.jpg

gunrun45
04-29-2010, 12:11 AM
I would say novice shooter, except it has happened now with 4 shooters. All of varing backrounds...

Its the S&W factory trigger. Fix it with whatever else is available and it can't be any worse. I will not be buying one...

In this case, I'd blame the novice shooter and not the gun. The stock triggers on the M&Ps are pretty bad, but in my opinion not bad enough to hinder a shooter to the point that it becomes inaccurate. That would just be the novice shooter needing to practice their trigger control. No one becomes proficient after one class.

I've fired a M&P done by Burwell, and shot the same pistol on its first day out. The trigger is night and day. I've also shot a XD40 done by Randy at Apex. They know what they're doing. With Scott Folk joining Apex, and having shot guns also worked over by him as well, I'm confident they can turn a stock M&P into one amazing shooting pistol.

Icypu
04-29-2010, 12:30 AM
I've fired a M&P at the range a few times. It's comfortable to shoot. What I don't like is when you insert the mag with the slide back, it releases the slide and chambers the round. It seems pretty unnecessary and surprising.

gunrun45
04-29-2010, 1:19 AM
This is not a "S&W" thing. Glocks are supposed to do it and several other pistols will do it pretty reliably if you insert the mag with enough force.

I've fired a M&P at the range a few times. It's comfortable to shoot. What I don't like is when you insert the mag with the slide back, it releases the slide and chambers the round. It seems pretty unnecessary and surprising.

ianS
04-29-2010, 7:56 AM
This is not a "S&W" thing. Glocks are supposed to do it and several other pistols will do it pretty reliably if you insert the mag with enough force.

Its not really a "normal" thing. Most of the Glocks I've owned so far in the past 15 years don't do it with the exception of one and that's only on really rare occasions. If it continues I'll change out parts in the hopes it'll prevent it. The only other Glocks that seemed to do that with regularity were well worn rentals at the range. My M&P on the other on hand does it with frequent regularity. I'd like to have it remedied soon but since its not one of my primary defense guns its not a priority.

For me its not a convenience since I end up doing a press check anyways.

frank828
04-29-2010, 10:51 AM
i was talking to a california state parks officer and he told me they're switching to the M&P. This was nearly a year ago, i wonder if it happened yet.

vintagearms
04-29-2010, 5:58 PM
[QUOTE=SPE;4185857]Hate to sound obvious, but a Glock is a Glock. An XD is an XD. An M&P is an M&P. An M&P is NOT the "new" Glock, nor is an XD.

A Glock is a Glock, an M&P is an M&P, and an XD is Garbage.

A Glock is a Glock, an M&P is an M&P, an an XD is a $200 gun before Springfield put their name on it. ;) Fixed it for ya.

Shenaniguns
04-29-2010, 6:54 PM
]~260 rounds of PMC, Lawmen and 124gr +P Ranger-T with no malfunctions, a better sight picture and the trigger is fantastic as I previously reported so I can actually feel a reset. I'm still trying to figure out which grip insert I need to stick with between the small and medium as I'm having problems with a consistent grip and need to re-adjust more often than I'd like :( The gun did not seem to like the powder puff PMC and preferred the hotter Lawmen and Ranger-T +P, so I'm going to experiment with different plinking ammo to see what works the most consistently. Here is two 25 yard groups with the Ranger-T of 5 rounds each since it's a little expensive to replace:

This one isn't too bad

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/57a19281.jpg


I ran out of targets and had to buy another from the range counter, I should have quit while I was ahead at the same distance:
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/f4f4ead9.jpg

Where did the 5th round go? 6 o'clock of the target on the backing :o


Next time I'm going at the start of a day and not the end where I'm tired.

ianS
04-29-2010, 7:28 PM
]I'm still trying to figure out which grip insert I need to stick with between the small and medium as I'm having problems with a consistent grip and need to re-adjust more often than I'd like :(

The grip is a bit slick on the M&P. Maybe some home stippling or skateboard tape will do the trick.

Shenaniguns
04-29-2010, 7:47 PM
The grip is a bit slick on the M&P. Maybe some home stippling or skateboard tape will do the trick.


I'm too impatient and will eventually pay to get it stippled :chris:

MarioS
04-29-2010, 10:11 PM
The M&P is a great pistol and will give the Glock a run for its money. I think that only more and more LE agencies will move over to it after it has had more time to build a reputation.

I think there are lots of people out there who would rather carry something American made by an American company too.

Monticore
04-29-2010, 10:14 PM
I wanna know where the deals are in the SF bay area.
Any ideas?
I smell a group buy!

Average Joe American
04-29-2010, 11:29 PM
Who agrees??

oh and i just bought an M&P 9. :25:

I agree. I am a Glock guy but I will be buying an M&P9 full size to ad to my G19 and G26 collection.

M&Ps are now standard issue for the P&P guys (parole & probation) in my area and they love them! I have always like their look and feel over my Glocks but resisted until now to buy one.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i182/mixflip/MP9-1.jpg

Ranger20
04-29-2010, 11:35 PM
M&P the new Glock?

Not to me... but it is popular and for a lot of people I know...is the excuse for those guys who don't like glocks to get into a poly framed gun that doesnt cost what you'd pay for an HK..

It's a nice pistol .... it's got a poly frame with a more traditional grip angle and has nice slide serrations. It's new and is getting a lot of good reviews...

The M&P however to me feels bulky and top heavy like the new Stainless Slide SIGS I don't like the longer trigger pull and reset.. but all of that is subjective to the individual. YMMV

For me The M&P is just a new design and not the "new Glock" ... I do think it was the last straw that caused Glock to come up with the GEN 4 adjustable grip which is nice ... To bad we can't get themm in CA>...

I am happy that an American Co. S&W is producing such a nice gun as the M&P... The M&P to me is sort of a bastardization if you will of a SIG and a GLOCK with a little HK thrown in which is all in all a pretty nice pistol... and one I've recommended to people who cant get over the GLOCK grip angle. which is brilliant but not appreciated until you shoot a glock as it's design locks your wrist more than the angle of the M&P.

All that said... My favorite S&W auto is my 3914 9mm a thin light weight wonderful trigger and short reset. and the larger brother in 45acp the 457.

For Me... I prefer the proven simple design of my GLOCK's over any other. Sure I shoot and own and have owned Kimber,Beretta, KAHR P45,Walther, Makarov, Sigs, HK, Browning, COLT, S&W 3rdGen, to name a few. Those are alll good but what I trust everyday and what has always worked for me is a simple GLOCK 36 in 45acp and now again my 2nd G19.... a new to me 9mm G19. 2nd generation I prefer no finger grooves...
Keep it simple keep it Glock!
http://sssli.com/images/Glock-36%5B1%5D.jpg
Just My Opinion and worth what you paid for it!

RT13
04-30-2010, 1:53 AM
I've fired a M&P at the range a few times. It's comfortable to shoot. What I don't like is when you insert the mag with the slide back, it releases the slide and chambers the round. It seems pretty unnecessary and surprising.

My M&P45 does not do that no matter how hard I slam the mag. But of course, I manually rack the slide back and slingshot it forward w/o the use of the slide lock release lever. This can happen to any gun if you use the slide release too much overtime. It rounds off the edge and wears off to the point that it easily releases the slide when a magazine is slammed or by hitting the gun.

Shenaniguns
04-30-2010, 4:17 AM
I've fired a M&P at the range a few times. It's comfortable to shoot. What I don't like is when you insert the mag with the slide back, it releases the slide and chambers the round. It seems pretty unnecessary and surprising.



I forgot to mention that mine did that as well last night, which doesn't bother me personally as long as it doesn't fail to feed... But so did some of my other Glocks as well.

gunrun45
04-30-2010, 4:24 AM
Its not really a "normal" thing. Most of the Glocks I've owned so far in the past 15 years don't do it with the exception of one and that's only on really rare occasions. If it continues I'll change out parts in the hopes it'll prevent it. The only other Glocks that seemed to do that with regularity were well worn rentals at the range. My M&P on the other on hand does it with frequent regularity. I'd like to have it remedied soon but since its not one of my primary defense guns its not a priority.

For me its not a convenience since I end up doing a press check anyways.

Sure... I'm sure that all of the Glock pistols I have ever seen at LE training classes are broken... Oh yeah, that and the 5 I have personally owned all did it also. Must just be me I guess...

Why is this a bad thing again? The slide going home when you bang the fresh mag in firmly is a BAD thing? Sure, unnerving for the uninitiated, but BAD? Here I thought the Glock factory rep at the last IALEFI show knew what he was talking about. Silly me...

ZombieTactics
04-30-2010, 6:14 AM
The "slide going home when you slam a mag into the well" behavior is absolutely, 100%, no-doubt-about-it, shut-up-already-if-you-don't-know-better, normal behavior, PERIOD.

Some guns will do it, some won't. I can control whther or not this happens with my Ruger SR9 or Glock 22 by how hard I slam the mag home ... and I am not some super gun ninja. Some people spend very good money to have their guns tuned so that they WILL do this, as it is very, very desirable behavior. Many trainers/competitors consider this a sign of a properly broken-in pistol ... a "gift from the gun gods".

PLEASE ... this IS the answer ... stop with the random surmises ... PLEASE.

ianS
04-30-2010, 8:30 AM
is absolutely, 100%, no-doubt-about-it, shut-up-already-if-you-don't-know-better, normal behavior, PERIOD.

:rolleyes:I'd consider the slide dropping automatically when reloading form slide lock "normal" or "desireable" if all semi-auto pistols did this every time. But they don't. Not even the ones that do it more frequently like the M&P and occasionally the Glock or HK USP do not do this all the time.

It screws with my muscle memory. When I slam a fresh mag after slide lock empty, my weak hand automatically goes to the slide to slingshot. Sometimes the M&P I own does it sometimes it doesn't. It doesn't matter if I slam the mag in hard or insert it with minimum force. Its random. Like it has a mind of its own. I don't want that moments hesitation to make sure it happened when my eyes should be going immediately back to the threat after I insert the mag successfully. Slingshotting (or using the slide lock lever) to drop the slide is done without looking as my eyes go immediately back to the threat or target. If I need to reload from empty slide lock really fast I'm probably in a lot of trouble. Why add this potential moment of hesitation at such a critical moment? Its okay on the range but not something I want to deal with in the real world. I prefer consistency, predictability, and control from my pistol over something that can't really be counted on.

Is this mall ninja? Or just common sense? Or does this make no sense to you guys? :rolleyes:

Nix78
04-30-2010, 8:42 AM
You know I don't like to sound like the next guy but, I held that M&P and saild this is the gun I kept going back and forth to our local shop (Mayfield Arms) and held plenty of others and what sold me is the ambi controls(Im' A lefty) .
So I did the next best thing I ordered it , get'er next month , dam 30 day wait in between handgun purchases!

Black Majik
04-30-2010, 8:49 AM
Sorry ZombieTactic, I will agree with Ian on this one. The slide slamming home when refreshed with a new magazine is not a feature, and is not normal. It is random.

There was a thread not too long ago discussing this very thing, IIRC the topic was discussing Glock slides dropping when being fed a magazine with force. My conclusion from that topic, as well as my own experience with semi-autos is to not rely on the gun to drop the slide when inserting a magazine, because sometimes the slide drops, and sometimes it doesn't.

A very good point was brought up, given enough force, all semi-autos will drop the slide if the butt of the grip was hit hard enough. My curiousity peaked when a member stated his 1911 did this, and that it was considered normal. It really isn't, but given enough force applied to the butt of the gun, the slide will drop to chamber a round.

At our last shoot, this topic came up, a few of us calgunners were discussing this very topic, I took out my 1911s and proceeded to insert a magazine with a lot of force, as much as it took to be safe (and to ensure I didn't break my magazine catch). With the slide locked to the rear, and giving it a good firm wack, the slide stayed to the rear. Finally, with the slide still to the rear, and a fresh magazine inserted into the magazine well, I gave the magazine pad a firm wack on the table. Sure enough, the slide dropped chambering a round.

My point being, if enough force is applied to a semi-auto pistol all slides will eventually fall. However, these guns were not designed to rely on force to drop the slide. I chamber a new magazine the same way as Ian, upon slidelock I slingshot my pistols. I don't want to wait to assess whether I need to chamber a round, relying on the pistol.

Also, within the competition circuit, I've never heard of anyone modifying their gun to make their slide drop upon reloading a fresh magazine. Not only that, USPSA shooters typically don't shoot to slidelock anyways, a magazine is refreshed before the gun is shot dry, so that would be a moot modification anyways.

damoni
04-30-2010, 9:05 AM
It's all a matter of personal preference. I own an M&P 45, NIB. bought it from a friend to go with my M&P 15. I've tried just about every Glock on the market, and don't really care for them. My brother in law is LEO in North Carolina, and swears up and down on a bible and a Glock. I always resort back to old faithful for the nightstand ; Sig P226!:36:

Hipmatt
04-30-2010, 5:20 PM
If you like glock, you will love the M&P. And as an added bonus, they don't kaboom, and they actually look cool.. They come with three backstraps for the grip, so there's virtually no chance that you won't find nice ergonomics, unlike the awkward and non adjustable glocks.

Shenaniguns
04-30-2010, 5:33 PM
If you like glock, you will love the M&P. And as an added bonus, they don't kaboom, and they actually look cool.. They come with three backstraps for the grip, so there's virtually no chance that you won't find nice ergonomics, unlike the awkward and non adjustable glocks.



You just had to screw it up with that nonsense... :rolleyes: