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firearmenthusiast
04-25-2010, 1:37 PM
I am wondering if it is legal to walk around with either a rifle, shotgun, or handgun in a locked container. If you buy a gun at a gun store and don't have a car and you take public transportation, would it be a problem if the bus goes by k-12 schools even if your gun is in a locked container? Thanks!

Meplat
04-25-2010, 2:05 PM
Unloaded and in locked container should be good to go even in a school zone. But be prepared to represent that you were going to or from range, gun shop, etc. if need be. But only through your lawyer.I am wondering if it is legal to walk around with either a rifle, shotgun, or handgun in a locked container. If you buy a gun at a gun store and don't have a car and you take public transportation, would it be a problem if the bus goes by k-12 schools even if your gun is in a locked container? Thanks!

artherd
04-25-2010, 2:17 PM
Unloaded and a Fully Enclosed Locking Container exempts you from the school zones (it rather must.)

You are still restricted as to destinations as above for handguns.

2Bear
04-25-2010, 2:20 PM
Where's my intelligent GPS enabled holster that auto-locks the evil whenever I'm less that 1000 ft from something deemed special?

the_natterjack
04-25-2010, 2:30 PM
Unloaded and a Fully Enclosed Locking Container exempts you from the school zones (it rather must.)

You are still restricted as to destinations as above for handguns.

That is for handguns only? I could walk around with unloaded rifle or shotgun in a locked container and not have a destination.Yes?

Brian

Experimentalist
04-25-2010, 3:03 PM
Unloaded and a Fully Enclosed Locking Container exempts you from the school zones (it rather must.)

You are still restricted as to destinations as above for handguns.

The quote from Gene below was made last December.

Ben, has anything changed since Gene made this post?

I have a fun LUCC holster project going on as we speak that is dependant on the legality of LUCC.

Thanks.

*sigh* LUCC is good enough for most gun lawyers in California who can't get CCWs to use. A unloaded handgun in a locked container isn't going to get you in trouble, especially since it is by definition concealed. Think about the fact that actually CCWing a loaded handgun registered to you is a minor misdemeanor. The reason it's not court tested is because it is simply legal and therefor people don't tend to be charged with anything.

I'm pretty confident that CGF will defend any attempted LUCC prosecution where the rest of the facts are ok (read, no drug dealers, lacerny attempts, vandalism, etc.) In point of fact, we already have defended an LUCC case as I think about it. The charge was concealed carry but the handguns were unloaded in locked containers that were broken open by law enforcement. Loved those facts. All charges dropped was the answer on that case.

-Gene

luckystrike
04-25-2010, 3:09 PM
what! you have to have a range as a destination when carrying a handgun???

Experimentalist
04-25-2010, 3:11 PM
what! you have to have a range as a destination when carrying a handgun???

Read Gene's quote in my post, immediately above yours.

luckystrike
04-25-2010, 3:20 PM
Read Gene's quote in my post, immediately above yours.

hmm. I ll look into it, because I dont want to thread jack anyone.

hoffmang
04-25-2010, 3:27 PM
The destination stuff appears to only effect non citizens. There are a couple of decent threads on it here. Citizens only need destinations for registered AWs. Even there it's basically unenforceable.

-Gene

Experimentalist
04-25-2010, 3:42 PM
Thanks for the clarification Gene.

Any interest in an RFID controlled LUCC holster? :) I'm brewing one up.

FWIW, The number of potential combinations in the RFID tag exceed those in most combination locks.

luckystrike
04-25-2010, 8:26 PM
The destination stuff appears to only effect non citizens. There are a couple of decent threads on it here. Citizens only need destinations for registered AWs. Even there it's basically unenforceable.

-Gene

thanks!

HondaMasterTech
04-25-2010, 9:19 PM
what! you have to have a range as a destination when carrying a handgun???

Who says you need to tell an officer where you're going? And, how is an officer going to have PC to open your container unless it's stamped with GLOCK on the outside?

Lone_Gunman
04-25-2010, 9:45 PM
Besides, how could they prove you weren't planning on going to the range especially if you keep your mouth shut and call the CGF as soon as there is an issue? If you haven't seen the don't talk to the police vid that was done by a lawyer and a police detective click on the Gadsen Flag in my sig. It will take you there.

firearmenthusiast
04-26-2010, 1:21 AM
So am I right to say that you can pretty much go anywhere with the long gun or handgun UNLOADED and in a LOCKED CONTAINER? I haven't really seen any info such as bring unloaded and enclosed locked guns into post offices. I just want to make sure nothing would happen to me if I were to transport a gun in a locked container within 1000 ft of school zones or other places. thanks!

sniper5
04-26-2010, 5:28 AM
A lot of short rifle cases and shotgun cases look VERY similar to high end guitar cases, and with a couple of music oriented stickers on them would not raise an eyebrow.

Ditto for pistol cases. Lots of them look like camera cases or briefcases. Perhaps a Nikon or Pentax or Canon (Canon-a little funny when you think about it) sticker?

Stay out of your head to toe camo with the "Guns don't kill people-I DO!" hat and you should be able to blend in nicely with the crowd.

paul0660
04-26-2010, 5:57 AM
The destination stuff appears to only effect non citizens.

The destination stuff is in pc 12026.2, and applies to everyone. 12026.1 says citizens may transport weapons, subject to proper storage, without a specific destination. School zones are ok, post offices are not, unless you are mailing the firearm.

Big Jake
04-26-2010, 6:03 AM
That is for handguns only? I could walk around with unloaded rifle or shotgun in a locked container and not have a destination.Yes?

Brian

And what would be the purpose of such a thing other than to attract negative attention to yourself? :confused:

GrizzlyGuy
04-26-2010, 6:35 AM
The destination stuff appears to only effect non citizens. There are a couple of decent threads on it here. Citizens only need destinations for registered AWs. Even there it's basically unenforceable.


That's true for handguns, but only if you are transporting in or on a motor vehicle. In that case and if you are a citizen, 12026.1 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html) is available to you. 12026.1 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html) is a broad, general-purpose exemption and has no destination/purpose restrictions.

However, if you are instead on foot or on a bicycle, skateboard, horse, etc. 12026.1 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html) is not available to anyone, including citizens, as it is limited to cases involving a motor vehicle. You must then use one of the exemptions in 12026 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.html), 12026.2 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.2.html) or 12027 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html). All of those are limited based on destination/location/purpose.

Here is an example of a situation where I don't believe LUCC is lawful: you are sitting at home and want to go on a long walk or bike ride for the purpose of exercise and clearing your head. You will be returning back home after the walk/ride. I can't find a suitable 12025 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html) exemption to cover that or similar scenarios. Hopefully I'm wrong and someone can cite/quote the applicable exemption.

Librarian
04-26-2010, 7:08 AM
So am I right to say that you can pretty much go anywhere with the long gun or handgun UNLOADED and in a LOCKED CONTAINER? I haven't really seen any info such as bring unloaded and enclosed locked guns into post offices. I just want to make sure nothing would happen to me if I were to transport a gun in a locked container within 1000 ft of school zones or other places. thanks!

That would be into a school zone, which is defined as 1000 feet from a school, and locked/unloaded is explicitly the way one is supposed to avoid being charged with a crime. In CA, only handguns are regulated that way, but Federal law also wants long guns locked or in a locking gun rack. See the Calguns Foundation Wiki link (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones).

Glock22Fan
04-26-2010, 7:31 AM
As I read it, 12026.1 merely restates the federal law allowing transport of a firearm in a locked case in a motor vehicle. There's nothing in there that would allow you to get out of the vehicle and wander at large with the firearm in its case.

Or are we reading in that this clause that "any lawful purpose" includes self defense? I'm sure it really means to the range, or a gunsmith, or something like that, but I suppose Self Defense is lawful too?

(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

tiki
04-26-2010, 9:25 AM
And what would be the purpose of such a thing other than to attract negative attention to yourself? :confused:

Well, for one, I drive an SUV. For me, there is not place to lock my firearm where it is inaccessible to someone smashing a window. So, if I am coming back from the range and I want to swing into a store to pick something up or to grab lunch somewhere, I don't like leaving my handguns in my vehicle, especially if I am going somewhere where I can't see it. I usually will pull any loaded magazines out of the bag and leave them in the car and take the bag in with me.

winnre
04-26-2010, 9:26 AM
My camera has a GPS built into it. I bet I can design one into a handgun so that a tiny electromagnet will switch on when the GPS calculates that a school is nearby (per coordinates on google maps), thus magnetizing the entire weapon to the point of inoperability.

motorhead
04-26-2010, 11:41 AM
perhaps you were on your way to the range and changed your mind.

weezil_boi
04-26-2010, 3:13 PM
regarding locked / unloaded...

1. doesnt carrying a handgun to a friends house count as a lawful purpose to transport it?( even if not the immediate and direct destination- say going to dinner or a grocery store first). If so, I often swing by a buddiy's place to try something with a new pistol... grips, light, sights, or just show him my new rig. Isnt that a lawful purpose to transport?

2. How does a person lawfully transport a handgun from his/her home to the residence of another person for purpose of cleaning, assistance or possibly to inspect the weapon for possible sale, if he/she HAS NO CAR? I figure, they unload it, they lock it up and they carry it! ;) How could that be illegal?

3. If making a stop along the way while transporting, like at a diner... isnt the fact that the handgun is valuable enough of a reason to NOT leave it in the car, if even if you were driving? I mean... say you were heading out to get your wife's diamond ring cleaned and stopped off for lunch first. Would it be so unreasonable to assume its safer in your pocket than it is in your trunk?

- - a giant metal box on your hip would suck. So, it'd have to be something fairly discreet/small for me to actually carry easily... maybe a box that looks alot like a fat blackberry wallet or something -- hdpe and kydex with a little jewelery box lock? ;)

GrizzlyGuy
04-26-2010, 6:07 PM
regarding locked / unloaded...

1. doesnt carrying a handgun to a friends house count as a lawful purpose to transport it?( even if not the immediate and direct destination- say going to dinner or a grocery store first). If so, I often swing by a buddiy's place to try something with a new pistol... grips, light, sights, or just show him my new rig. Isnt that a lawful purpose to transport?

2. How does a person lawfully transport a handgun from his/her home to the residence of another person for purpose of cleaning, assistance or possibly to inspect the weapon for possible sale, if he/she HAS NO CAR? I figure, they unload it, they lock it up and they carry it! ;) How could that be illegal?


This is OK, even when on foot, when you combine 12026.2 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.2.html) with 12026 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.html). From 12026.2:

Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following...
(4) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 directly between any of the places mentioned in Section 12026.


Over in 12026 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.html), it says this:

Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.

You lawfully possess your home, and you 'lawfully possess' your friends home if he allows you to be present (you aren't trespassing). So you are OK while going directly between those places while LUCC.


3. If making a stop along the way while transporting, like at a diner... isnt the fact that the handgun is valuable enough of a reason to NOT leave it in the car, if even if you were driving? I mean... say you were heading out to get your wife's diamond ring cleaned and stopped off for lunch first. Would it be so unreasonable to assume its safer in your pocket than it is in your trunk?

- - a giant metal box on your hip would suck. So, it'd have to be something fairly discreet/small for me to actually carry easily... maybe a box that looks alot like a fat blackberry wallet or something -- hdpe and kydex with a little jewelery box lock? ;)

From 12026.2:

...the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

If it was reasonably necessary for you to stop and grab a burger at the diner, you're good to go. Or, you could consider your trip to the privately owned diner as a separate trip: you 'lawfully possess' your seat in the diner while you eat your burger, so the diner is one of the places mentioned in 12026. :)

N_S
04-26-2010, 7:27 PM
I got stopped while picking up an SKS from the 10 day wait. They took a quick look, determined that I hadn't done anything illegal since it was locked up and unloaded and let me go on my way.

Things went quite better than expected.

2Bear
04-28-2010, 10:43 PM
My camera has a GPS built into it. I bet I can design one into a handgun so that a tiny electromagnet will switch on when the GPS calculates that a school is nearby (per coordinates on google maps), thus magnetizing the entire weapon to the point of inoperability.

One would want an emergency override, for people in clocktowers and such.

Judge Dredd weapons aren't that far off.

GrizzlyGuy
04-29-2010, 5:55 AM
I got stopped while picking up an SKS from the 10 day wait. They took a quick look, determined that I hadn't done anything illegal since it was locked up and unloaded and let me go on my way.

Things went quite better than expected.

The officers were correct, you were in full compliance with the law. If the SKS was configured as a pistol, there is a concealed carry exemption in 12026.2 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.2.html) for that situation:

(5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or
private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or
the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm.

Like all the exemptions in 12026.2, it is only valid if the gun is unloaded and in a locked container:

(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.

If the SKS was instead in the standard rifle configuration, then 12025 was N/A (long guns aren't concealable per 12001 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12001.html)) and you didn't need to have it locked up unless you were going to travel through a GFSZ (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones).

I'm glad to hear that things went well during the encounter. :)

Glock22Fan
04-29-2010, 1:41 PM
- - a giant metal box on your hip would suck. So, it'd have to be something fairly discreet/small for me to actually carry easily... maybe a box that looks alot like a fat blackberry wallet or something -- hdpe and kydex with a little jewelery box lock? ;)

Check this (http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/23863/catid/14/Dillon__039_s___039_Plan_B__039__Day_Planner)out. The Dillon Precision "Plan B" case that looks like a day planner and can be locked.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages//10252_m.jpg

easy
04-29-2010, 2:34 PM
^
^
very nice!

Big E
05-06-2010, 3:28 PM
The Dillon Precision "Plan B" case that looks like a day planner and can be locked.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages//10252_m.jpg

I like the Day Planner for transport. It doesn't shout, "Hey, I've got a gun right here."

This picture looks like LLCC to me. I'm not an expert (which is why I'm reading all this stuff), but that's not kosher right?

IrishPirate
05-06-2010, 3:33 PM
If you buy a handgun you can unloaded CCW it from the FFL to your house, but you can't take the long way full of pit stops. Do most FFL's know that? no. will most of them try to make you buy or bring a locking container with a lock? probably. What you have the right to do, and what people will let you do (in regards to guns) is usually 2 different things here in CA.

LUCC is perfectly legal....and about as useful as CCWing a brick. If you have enough time to get the container out, unlock it, load your weapon, and use it defensively.....you probably weren't in a situation where you needed a gun. (other than a bank robbery with the most unattentive robbers in history of course)

Havoc70
05-06-2010, 4:51 PM
I like the Day Planner for transport. It doesn't shout, "Hey, I've got a gun right here."

This picture looks like LLCC to me. I'm not an expert (which is why I'm reading all this stuff), but that's not kosher right?

Except the obvious question "Why is your day planner locked?". Still, it's really damn cool. And yes, in the picture it shows LLCC, because it's assumed that you're carrying with a permit. To use it for LUCC you would leave the magazine well empty and have the loaded mag in the holder.

stix213
05-06-2010, 5:43 PM
If you have enough time to get the container out, unlock it, load your weapon, and use it defensively.....you probably weren't in a situation where you needed a gun.

I disagree, though any situation where you would have enough time to do all that would only be when you specifically aren't being immediately threatened with your life. But in a situation where you are eating crappy food at the local mall's food court, and you hear gun shots and screams....

duldej
05-06-2010, 6:45 PM
public places like courthouses for instance might be problematic for you as they were for me on one occasion.

i had a 4" fixed blade knife in a briefcase. i didn't have time to go back home and deposit the knife so i placed my briefcase on the x-ray belt (at the courthouse) and got stopped and arrested, went through accusatory pleadings and the whole 9.
they hung on to the municipal code that was posted on the "no weapons" sign in front of the courthouse.
eventually i gave-up that fight but they conceded that i was not concealing the knife.
this happened in l.a. city.

firearmenthusiast
05-06-2010, 6:48 PM
All these rules and subtleties are driving me nuts!:confused: Its as if all these rules were placed there to ensnare you at any moment!

firearmenthusiast
05-06-2010, 6:51 PM
Check this (http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/23863/catid/14/Dillon__039_s___039_Plan_B__039__Day_Planner)out. The Dillon Precision "Plan B" case that looks like a day planner and can be locked.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages//10252_m.jpg

Wow! Suppose you locked this would it be "fully enclosed" do you think?

Librarian
05-06-2010, 11:01 PM
Wow! Suppose you locked this would it be "fully enclosed" do you think?

Yes.

POLICESTATE
05-06-2010, 11:06 PM
Except the obvious question "Why is your day planner locked?". .

BUt that would be followed by the obvious answer:

JagerTroop
05-07-2010, 12:21 AM
Except the obvious question "Why is your day planner locked?"BUt that would be followed by the obvious answer:

I don't anyone knowing where I'll be at 2:15pm on 5/13.

Duh :rolleyes:

Bobula
05-07-2010, 12:53 AM
I have a variation of the dillion plan b that takes a key resembling a mini double sided hand cuff key. You can't tell it locks. Its very comforting. I've been pulled over with it in the passenger floorboard of my car, and on my passenger seat. Officer never cared or batted a curious eye.

GrizzlyGuy
05-07-2010, 6:27 AM
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.

The way the law is written is really discriminating upon those who do not have a vehicle, but it would seem that under those limitations that nothing prevents someone from stopping by their car on the way out the door. If you wanted to be really legit, I suppose you could start her up, go 5 feet down the street, park and then start your walk/bike ride. It says "directly to or from" so only one of those has to be satisfied. You are walking directly from your motor vehicle for a lawful purpose.

It doesnt say "Firearm sport related purposes" it simply says "Any lawful purpose". If you go to the store to rob it, obviously thats not a lawful purpose, but if your purpose in going to the store is to purchase groceries, a lawful act, then you are in effect, not transporting it for an "unlawful purpose". If your purpose in going on a walk is to steal a car or mug someone, then you're probably not going to be covered by the penal code, but I read the legal language as stating that a walk to clear your mind or enjoy the sunset is a "lawful purpose" for a walk from your vehicle. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but it seems to make sense to me. :confused: :confused:

That's an interesting analysis. However, I think it is likely that a judge would interpret 'directly to or from' as meaning 'directly to -OR- directly from'. The legislative intent seems to be to give you safe passage on your way to and from your car for transport via that car.

I suppose you could park your car 2 miles away and get in a nice and lawful 4 mile walk that way. :)

Strpd_Up_Brotha
05-07-2010, 10:46 AM
So is the answer yes or no?????

IrishPirate
05-07-2010, 10:59 AM
I disagree, though any situation where you would have enough time to do all that would only be when you specifically aren't being immediately threatened with your life. But in a situation where you are eating crappy food at the local mall's food court, and you hear gun shots and screams....

that was kinda what i was getting at with the bank robbery situation, but in a bank robbery, you usually can't leave. In a mall food court, if you had enough time to get your gun, you had enough time to leave.

If you're in a mall and you hear gun shots at the other end and you go all mall ninja with your gun....that's a recipe for disaster. I can't see any good coming of trying to be the hero, or of running around a mall with a gun when cops are responding to a call for shots fired in a mall. when you're the first armed person they see, you'll probably end up getting arrested or shot. If you're far enough away....leave the mall. Better to be cautious and alive, than heroic and dead.

LUCC has its uses, sure. But they are few and far between and not generally situations that the average person finds themselves in. Of course it would be better to LUCC than to be unarmed if you ever did find yourself in one of those situations, but I don't think its very practical for SD or for more than general transportation uses. But that's just me

POLICESTATE
05-07-2010, 11:04 AM
I think LUCC would be useful if you have crazies at work that might get disgruntled and shoot the place up. You may or may not be able to get out in time, if not your only real option these days is to try and shelter in place. At least if you had LUCC that would open up your options a bit. Shelter in place and then if they break through that barrier you will at least be able to defend yourself instead of getting slaughtered.

ponderosa
05-07-2010, 11:11 AM
I think LUCC would be useful if you have crazies at work that might get disgruntled and shoot the place up. You may or may not be able to get out in time, if not your only real option these days is to try and shelter in place. At least if you had LUCC that would open up your options a bit. Shelter in place and then if they break through that barrier you will at least be able to defend yourself instead of getting slaughtered.

Totally... but gotta watch the employee handbook and what it says on firearms I suppose... sadly enough for some. But the same scenario could be applied to a mall shooting or even a fast food restaurant, etc.

POLICESTATE
05-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Totally... but gotta watch the employee handbook and what it says on firearms I suppose... sadly enough for some. But the same scenario could be applied to a mall shooting or even a fast food restaurant, etc.

Yeah you are right, most medium and larger companies (if not all) have rules specifically bringing firearms onto company PROPERTY, so technically you can't even have a firearm in your car (well unless you park on the street if that is an option).

Now the questions would really be, can your employer require you, under the threat of you losing your job, to open any locked container that is your personal property?

GrizzlyGuy
05-07-2010, 11:26 AM
So is the answer yes or no?????

If you mean the original 'Can you walk around with a gun in a locked container?' question, there is no yes or no answer that applies at all times. It depends on the type of gun (long vs. concealable), where you are, where you are going, your purpose, etc. Here are a few examples of where it would be a bad idea:

Where/when are some places/times that I CAN NOT HAVE A FIREARM? (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Where.2Fwhen_are_some_places.2Ftimes_that_I_CA N_NOT_HAVE_A_FIREARM.3F)

Strpd_Up_Brotha
05-07-2010, 11:40 AM
If you mean the original 'Can you walk around with a gun in a locked container?' question, there is no yes or no answer that applies at all times. It depends on the type of gun (long vs. concealable), where you are, where you are going, your purpose, etc. Here are a few examples of where it would be a bad idea:

Where/when are some places/times that I CAN NOT HAVE A FIREARM? (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Where.2Fwhen_are_some_places.2Ftimes_that_I_CA N_NOT_HAVE_A_FIREARM.3F) Well that's a yes...cause i don't frequent any of those places...and if i did i know not to have a firearm in my possession. Thanx G.G.

GrizzlyGuy
05-07-2010, 11:45 AM
Well that's a yes...cause i don't frequent any of those places...and if i did i know not to have a firearm in my possession. Thanx G.G.

Whoa, it's not necessarily a yes. That was a partial list and there are lots of other factors to consider, especially if you are thinking of carrying a handgun that way.

steadyrock
05-07-2010, 12:11 PM
That would be into a school zone, which is defined as 1000 feet from a school, and locked/unloaded is explicitly the way one is supposed to avoid being charged with a crime. In CA, only handguns are regulated that way, but Federal law also wants long guns locked or in a locking gun rack. See the Calguns Foundation Wiki link (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones).

True. However a point of clarification exists between "in a school zone" (meaning within 1000 feet of the edge of school property) and "on school property" (as in, dropping my kids off in the school parking lot). Per our conversation a few weeks back, I can LUCC "in a school zone" but I cannot LUCC "on school property". Correct? This is the one place where LUCC laws confuse me.

Librarian
05-07-2010, 12:26 PM
True. However a point of clarification exists between "in a school zone" (meaning within 1000 feet of the edge of school property) and "on school property" (as in, dropping my kids off in the school parking lot). Per our conversation a few weeks back, I can LUCC "in a school zone" but I cannot LUCC "on school property". Correct? This is the one place where LUCC laws confuse me.

Correct.

Unless you have CCW or are LEO, you cannot bring a firearm onto school grounds/campuses without written permission of the head administrator at the school.

Passing through a school zone - that 1000' radius area - requires nobody's permission, and LUCC is a specific exemption in the GFSZ law, just as it is an exemption to PC 12025.

GrizzlyGuy
05-07-2010, 12:30 PM
True. However a point of clarification exists between "in a school zone" (meaning within 1000 feet of the edge of school property) and "on school property" (as in, dropping my kids off in the school parking lot). Per our conversation a few weeks back, I can LUCC "in a school zone" but I cannot LUCC "on school property". Correct? This is the one place where LUCC laws confuse me.

Ammo is the real issue regarding school grounds, see here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3886159#post3886159).

steadyrock
05-07-2010, 12:41 PM
Correct.

Unless you have CCW or are LEO, you cannot bring a firearm onto school grounds/campuses without written permission of the head administrator at the school.

Passing through a school zone - that 1000' radius area - requires nobody's permission, and LUCC is a specific exemption in the GFSZ law, just as it is an exemption to PC 12025.

Ammo is the real issue regarding school grounds, see here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3886159#post3886159).

That is disappointing. Whether it is the pistol itself or the ammo that causes the issue, the fact that a person would have to actually remove an LUCC package from their vehicle simply to drop the kids off at school and then put it back in before going on with the rest of their day, is a letdown. I suppose said person could pull to the curb on a public road abutting school property to get the job done.

I don't see any way around this other than the two options above.

Mstrty
05-07-2010, 12:53 PM
I still like my Idea. Just to screw with the UOC antis
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30278&d=1249874900

We discussed this back in August, before the UOC crowd got the party shut down. Discussed Here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=211075)

Pushbutton lock. combo 1234 you could do it onehanded in the dark.

stix213
05-07-2010, 1:10 PM
If you're in a mall and you hear gun shots at the other end and you go all mall ninja with your gun....that's a recipe for disaster. I can't see any good coming of trying to be the hero, or of running around a mall with a gun when cops are responding to a call for shots fired in a mall. when you're the first armed person they see, you'll probably end up getting arrested or shot. If you're far enough away....leave the mall. Better to be cautious and alive, than heroic and dead.


I really think that is the wrong attitude. First of all, if you hear shots fired in the mall you are more than likely 10+ minutes ahead of the police in responding. Second, if you have a locked pistol with you and you hear gun shots and just run away with the rest of the sheeple, I hope you have a whole lot of trouble living with yourself when you read the next day that 14 people were killed in the mall that day.... You could have saved them, you had the means to save them, but you made the choice not to and to leave the problem for someone else.

There are also ways to approach a situation where a crazy guy is shooting without waving around your own gun in the air for any responding police to shoot you instead.

I'm not saying to try to be the hero anytime its possible, yeah you have your own life to be concerned with, but at the same time your "Better to be cautious and alive, than heroic and dead" attitude is part of what is wrong with the world today in my opinion.

Mstrty
05-07-2010, 1:24 PM
I'm not saying to try to be the hero anytime its possible, yeah you have your own life to be concerned with, but at the same time your "Better to be cautious and alive, than heroic and dead" attitude is part of what is wrong with the world today in my opinion.

Wow buddy I feel you are way off base. I at no time have a duty to protect the 14 others in the mall. The police have NO legal duty to protect the people in that mall. I enjoy being free and not reliant on the Government. Im not one of those (Ill just wait here and someone will help me) I prefer to be on of the (I am responsible for my own self preservation).
I disagree with you assertion that it is someones moral duty to protect the 14 in the mall. I do however belive it is your choice to make without ANY guilt.

Wherryj
05-07-2010, 4:50 PM
Where's my intelligent GPS enabled holster that auto-locks the evil whenever I'm less that 1000 ft from something deemed special?

Be careful, you may get what you ask for. However, that might be better than what CA has been trying to work for-complete disarming of the sheeple.

Ishooter
05-08-2010, 2:18 PM
As regards to school zone law, you may have problems owning/carrying gun if you live right next to school. There're a lot of houses & apartments that are built right next to the school in O.C., and the distance is only a few feet over the fence. I'm interested to see how the law can be interpreted in this area.

GrizzlyGuy
05-08-2010, 2:30 PM
As regards to school zone law, you may have problems owning/carrying gun if you live right next to school. There're a lot of houses & apartments that are built right next to the school in O.C., and the distance is only a few feet over the fence. I'm interested to see how the law can be interpreted in this area.

Both of the GFSZ laws (state and federal) exempt private property that is not part of school grounds. Theseus's state GFSZ case has put some doubt into that, but his case related to a privately owned business that was open to the public vs. a house or apartment. If you live in that kind of location, learn the property lines and be sure that you don't cross them with a firearm unless you are in compliance with both laws.