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Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:31 AM
That is to say I have $7,000.00 budgeted for my next project, a long range tack driver!..

Iíve really wanted a *****en precision rifle forever! And luckily enough Iím now in the position to get one

I figure Iíll need to spend around $2 - 3,000 on the scope & rings and $4 - 5,000 on the rifle. So Iím limited but should have enough funds for a great rifle and scope..


Choosing the proper glass..
I know this is extremely important here! So I don't want to screw it up!!! Iím really looking hard at these 4 different scope / glass manufactures..

Any thoughts team??

ē Nightforce
o 3.5-15x50
o 30mm tube
o $2,300.00
o http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/SCOPES_OVERVIEW/5_5-22x50___5_5-22x56/5_5-22x50___5_5-22x56.html

ē Schmidt & Bender
o 5-25x56
o 34mm tube
o $3,200.00
o http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/464396-REG/Schmidt_Bender_944LPP3_3_12x50_Police_Marksman_LP. html

ē Zeiss Hensoldt
o 3x12x56
o 34mm tube
o $3,100.00
o http://www.sportoptics.com/zeiss-hensoldt-rifle-scopes.aspx

ē Swarovski
o 5.5-22x50
o 30mm tube
o $3.100.00
o http://www.swarovskioptik.us/en_us/products/rifle-scope_z6-z6i_5-30x50-p


Any other suggestions from the team on a scope that will reach out and give me great clarity? that is for around 2-3k would be killer!.. Itís my understanding that I want clarity over magnification right??

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:31 AM
Ok.. Now on to the Rifles.. This has truly been a joy and a great learning experience for me… I had the opportunity to read up on all of the *****en rifles and WOW.. there are a lot of them..

My initial thinking was to just have a custom rifle built from the ground up, but that will take another year. So I thought that I’m probably just better off buying one from a reputable shop instead.. I’ve looked for used ones but I haven’t been able to really find any yet that have peeked my interest.

I started out by reviewing the following (top 10) 308 precision rifles that I’m aware of. Just about every builder is guaranteeing a .5 MOA accuracy. These rifles are all around 10 lbs, and have an affective range of 800mm.

Ammo is not a concern as I reload and have been doing so for the past 9 + years.


Stiller’s Precision Firearms
http://www.viperactions.com
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/solomanfclass.jpg



Long Range Rifles
http://www.longrangehunting.com/lrr/lrr-7-dakota.php
Accuracy is Sub .5 MOA
Pricing $3,695.00
Weight is just over 10 lbs
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/7d-group.jpg



Nesika Tactical Rifle
http://www.nesika.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Tactical-Rifle
Accuracy is Sub .5 MOA
Pricing $5,500.00
Weight is just under 10 pounds
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/UrbanTactical_Rifle.jpg



PGW Defence Technologies (The Coyote) http://pgwdti.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=6
Accuracy is Sub .5 MOA
Pricing $4,800.00
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/1246680571_timberwolf2033820with20s.jpg



G A Precision (Gladius)
http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2010-custom-rifles.html
Accuracy is .5 MOA
$3,850.00
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/gladius.png



USMC M40A5
http://www.gaprecision.net/mil-spec-rifles/m40a5.html
Accuracy is .5 Guarantee
Pricing is $3,950.00
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/usmc-m40a3.png

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:32 AM
Surgeon rifles (Scalple)
http://www.surgeonrifles.com/products/rifles-in-stock-ready-to-ship/?module=products&product_id=205
Accuracy is .5 MOA
$4,433.00
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/2-32-4_1.jpg



PGM Precision (Ultima Ratio)
http://www.pgmprecision.com/en_US/fusils/ur.html
Accuracy is .5 MOA
Pricing (????) couldn’t find this rifle for sale anywhere?.
Weight 17 Lbs
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/pgmur_001.png



Desert Tactical Arms (SRS)
http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/srs-308-winchester-conversion-kit
Accuracy is / They had NO guarantee MOA on this rifle..
Pricing $3,860
Weight 11.4 lbs
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/SetWidth800-SRS308.png



Accuracy International AE
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/ae_series.php
Accuracy is
Pricing is $3,369.00
Weight 13.4oz
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/AIAE3081.jpg

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:32 AM
All of these rifles are exceptional but its time to break them down:

Too expensive:
• Nesika Tactical Rifle
• PGW Defence Technologies
• Surgeon rifles
Would be KILLER!.. But then I wouldn’t have enough for glass. So they are out based on the price.

Not for sale to civilians
• PGM Precision

Now lets remove the following:
• Stiller’s precision firearms as they only a few rifles each year and they are not accepting any new full rifle orders.
• Desert Tactical Arms as I don't know if I’ll feel comfortable with my face above the bolt?. So there out.

Now that leaves us with 4 strong remaining rifles to chose from.
• Long Range Rifles
• G A Precision
• USMC M40A5
• Accuracy International AE

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:33 AM
Now with the 308’s reviewed it was time to turn my attention to the precision rifle’s that are chambered in the 388 Lapua:

This round has an affective range of 1,500 meters, works well on personal and small vehicles. The Average rifle weighs in around 14 lbs, 12-17 lbs is the actual spread.. Ammo is extremely expensive! $70-120 per 20 rds!.. Ouch.. but THANK GOD… I reload.. I looked into it and all of the necessary equipment is available and I can defiantly reload / load this caliber.


Anzio Ironworks Corp (Take-Down)
http://www.anzioironworks.com/338-Lapua-Take-down-rifle.htm
Accuracy is .37 MOA
Pricing is $4,700.00
Weight
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/338lapua1-fp.jpg



Desert Tactical Arms (Stealth Recon Scout)
http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/stealth-recon-scout-srs-338-lm
Accuracy is / They had NO guarantee MOA on this rifle..
Pricing is $4,185.00
Weight is 12.25 lbs
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/SetWidth800-SRS308.png



PGW Defence Technologies (Timberwolf Tactical)
http://pgwdti.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=7
Accuracy sub .750 / is plus 90% probability of hitting a chest sized target at 1200M.
Pricing is $6,700.00
Weight is 15 lbs
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/1246680589_timberwolf20338.jpg



Accuracy International AW Magnum
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/aw_series.php
http://www.impactguns.com/store/AI-AWSM338.html
Pricing is $5.844.00
Weight is
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/ai_awsm.jpg



PGM Precision (PGM - PSR)
http://www.drakeassociates.us/content/pgm338lmpsr
Pricing (????) couldn’t find this rifle for sale anywhere?.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/GSG5_041.jpg



E.D.M. Arms (Windrunner)
http://02bfe1c.netsolhost.com/products/m98.htm
Accuracy is .5 MOA
Pricing is $6,350.00
Weight is
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/DesrtGrp.jpg

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:33 AM
Barrett 98B (2010 Rifle of the year)
http://www.barrett.net/firearms/model98b
Accuracy is sub 1”
Pricing is $4,200.00
Weight is 12.4 lbs
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/98b-hero.jpg



Blaser Tac 2
http://sgcusa.com/Rifles-Sig-Sauer/c85_151/p1683/Sig-Blaser-Tactical-2-.338Lapua-(R93TAC2-338)/product_info.html
Accuracy is sub 1”
Pricing is $4,000.00
Weight is 12.6 lbs
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/_nag2888nm8.jpg

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:34 AM
Much like the process in the 308 its time break them down into different categories:

WOW.. I didn’t know you were that much. No I can’t afford you sorry.
• PGW Defence Technologies
• Accuracy International AW
• E.D.M. Arms

Not for sale to civilians / couldn’t find it.
• PGM Precision

Don't like the fact that my face is above the bolt, so I’m going pass on the Desert Tactical arms one. I have read mixed reviews about the Blaser Tac 2. some good some really, really bad, so it out!.

Ok, so now that leaves us with the following 2 (338 Lapua) contenders;
• Anzio Ironworks Corp
• Barrett 98B

Although the Anzio is rated @ .5 MOA which is .5 better the Barrett 98B I just cant get behind the looks of it..

The Barrett 98 is one sexy rifle, shoots GREAT, won the 2010 Rifle of the Year Award and is my top choice in the 338 category. I’ve even seen them used for $3,800.00

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 12:34 AM
Ok so this is where I get stuck and could use your assistance team.

In my small feeble mind / my world this is how I look at everything in front of me, please feel free to straighten me out..

Purpose the rifle itself.
Local bench & BLM land shooting in So-Cal / LA area 300 - 800 yards
Joining the local long distance shooting club 500 – 1000 yards
95% of the time I’ll be shooting less than 600 yards

I think the 308 is a great choice as it fill 98% of the needs / requirements
If I stick with the 308 rifle at a 4k ish range and a 3k ish range for the scope I’ll end up with one really sick package.. It should be a total tack driver.. But!
It’s limited to the 308 ballistic / an affective range of 800 meters.. But then again that 800 meters fills 95% of the required distances.


Now when I look at the 338 Lapua rifles (ie) the Barrett 98 B, I would need to adjust my founds to $4,500 for the rifle leaving me with 2,500 left for a scope..

Not a total tack driver but really close to it, I’ll have the tools for the 1,000 + yards shoots and I’m thinking that it will be the most fun to shoot..

I’m really close to pulling the trigger on the Barrett 98 for $3,800 I found and then purchasing a Nightforce scope for it and calling it a day..

But I was hoping to get your opinion on it before I moved forward.

So here are my questions (Man I took a long time to get here)
1. What other manufactures of the 308 should I be looking at?
2. What other manufactures that shoot the 338 should I be looking at?
3. What other scope manufactures should be looking at?
4. (Glass / scope) Is clarity more important than magnification?
5. (subject to personal preference) Would you get the 308 total tack driving package? Or the 338 with not such a great scope?

Thank you so much for your time everybody!.. I tried to do most of the initial research myself.. Now I need your help / opinions..

Have a great weekend everybody and thank you again for your time

Link.

E Pluribus Unum
04-25-2010, 12:39 AM
Why???

Buy a remington 700 in your favorite caliber:
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx

And then send it to a good gun smith like this guy:

http://www.louisianaprecisionrifles.com/

He claims .25 MOA at 100 yards using match ammo and its less than $500.00.

Then spend a good amount on good glass.... shouldn't be any more than 3 grand.

wboughton
04-25-2010, 2:02 AM
You've got a huge budget that will pretty much get you whatever you want. It's pretty much personal preference at this point. I think you should look at 6.5x47 Lapua or .308. .338 is nice, but a little overkill for what your going to do.

If you really just want to burn all of that money, I'd go with a Tac Ops rifle of your choice. Their attention to detail is unprecedented and I have seen their rifles shoot well below .25MOA with FGMM.

Get that and a Schmidt and Bender FFP MIL/MIL or possibly a premier or Vortex. USO's are nice and rugged as well. Do a little more research on here and on SnipersHide. You will find what you want

FYI. The SRS is a GREAT rifle that shoots well below MOA and probably closer to .5 MOA if not better. I think its a great option given its compact size and accuracy.

Solidsnake87
04-25-2010, 3:30 AM
You've got a huge budget that will pretty much get you whatever you want.

+1. Try to narrow your selection by what you truly want to do with it and how much $ you will have to invest later on.....some calibers really burn out barrels quickly. .308 is used by some of the best Palma guys out there. Its a great round that will give very good barrel life.

I'd try a NF NXS 3.5-15x50 in either Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA. They are great scopes that will do their job. They are a little pricey but not ridiculous. Many consider these to be one of the greatest scopes on the market and you'll see tons of people using them at matches. They are a great bang for the buck.

In terms of scope rings, I've only used NF, Leupold, and FN. Can't go wrong with either. I'm kinda biased towards the FN ones......they are quite beefy with a lot of scope contact surface area.

With that kind of money to blow, I'd recommend a custom rifle. There are SOOOOO many actions, bbl makers, and stocks out there its ridiculous. You seem to want a bolt gun.....how about gas guns? They are quite accurate themselves if you use the proper base gun. AR-15s and AR-10s you can even build yourself quite easily! If you want something as crazy as you seem to be lookin for, custom will be worth the wait if you are patient. You are in the lucky minority to be able to create a custom rifle from the outset.

X-NewYawker
04-25-2010, 5:37 AM
GAP 308
Manners stock.
Nightforce 5-22X

OR

Remington 700 5R rebuilt by Shilen with 1lb trigger pull
McMillan stock (or new JAE stock)
Leupold 6.5-20X 30mm tube. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/_MG_6406.jpg
Have them but the chamber for Federal match. Buy a fee cases of ammo with the money you save over a GAP.

Did you notice how many of your potentials claimed a guarantee of 1/2 MOA/ Because a good modern rifle like an out of the box Remington VSSF can give you that. Even an M21 Springfield M1-A with Federal match will shoot 1/2 MOA. A Remington Custom shop rifle for $2500 built on a 40X action will do that. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/rooker-sniper.jpg

So forget the guarantee. A SHILEN or similar custom rifle built on a 700 action that is trued and blueprinted will give you .25 MOA --

I prefer 308 over 338 for work under 1000 yards -- and 338 is ****ing expensive:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/_MG_9186.jpg

And don't be so quick to write off the DTA SRS because of the ergonomics of the bolt position -- its one of the most accurate tactical rifles out there -- http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/DTA-group-9-26.jpghttp://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/_MG_9220.jpgand if you buy it in 308, later you can get a 338 lapua barrel and bolt for it it and whammo -- both calibers!

I've had some beautiful, incredible "sniper" rifles. The Kimber Advanced Tactical in 308 comes out of the stormcase shooting sub 1/2 MOA for under $3000 --
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/KimbersniperinrocksLR.jpg
so... good luck making a choice. My ultimate advice is don't try so hard to spend ALL that $7K on rifle and optics when spending a grand less and buying a grand worth of Fedral match MAy be a better investment.

Jason762
04-25-2010, 5:51 AM
How about a Tac Ops rifle? http://www.tacticaloperations.com/

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/tangoseries/tango51zoom.jpg

Reivew w/ group pics:

http://www.snipercentral.com/alpha66.phtml

http://www.snipercentral.com/xray51.phtml

And last I checked they were going for $3,000 IIRC?

If I had your coin, I'd get one of these with a S&B Police Marksman II 10x42

a1fabweld
04-25-2010, 8:00 AM
I just put together a 1K rifle on somewhat of a budget. It's based on a Rem 5R, AI chassis, NF NXS 5.5-22x56, with Badger rings & base. It shoots sub .5MOA & I'm in it for $4000 OTD. Are you experienced in precision shooting? I'm not trying to talk you out of a top notch rig, I'm just saying that nothing is funnier that watching a guy shoot his super high end rig that can't shoot.

RobG
04-25-2010, 8:12 AM
Purpose the rifle itself.
Local bench & BLM land shooting in So-Cal / LA area 300 - 800 yards
Joining the local long distance shooting club 500 Ė 1000 yards
95% of the time Iíll be shooting less than 600 yards

I think the 308 is a great choice as it fill 98% of the needs / requirements
If I stick with the 308 rifle at a 4k ish range and a 3k ish range for the scope Iíll end up with one really sick package.. It should be a total tack driver.. But!
Itís limited to the 308 ballistic / an affective range of 800 meters.. But then again that 800 meters fills 95% of the required distances.

A 338 is a waste for primarily shooting at 600 and even out to 1k. It is stupidly expensive to shoot as well. Build a .260, .243, or .284. But, before you plop down a ton of coin check out the Cal Precision Rifle Club meets and talk to the guys and se what they shoot. I can guarantee most aren't shooting 7k guns. And a "tack driver" that is mounted in a vise and fired three times at paper at 100yds won't mean s$%t when you lay behind it and fire it at 1k. As most will tell you, buy one of the good Remingtons in .308, a good piece of glass in quality mounts, match ammo (if you dont reload, which you will have to if you want to get serious about this) and head out to a range and start shooting. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a $$$$$ rifle is going to automatically shoot lights out. The trigger puller is the biggest quotient.

gunsmithcats
04-25-2010, 9:18 AM
Get the Schmidt and Bender or premier. I. Sold off all my other scopess to fund them

phish
04-25-2010, 10:15 AM
Get the Schmidt and Bender or premier. I. Sold off all my other scopess to fund them

the 2 scopes that rksimple broke

uzigalil
04-25-2010, 10:35 AM
Have you contacted one of the best rifle builders that's pretty close to you
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/

you can call Mike , he answers his phone and loves to talk rifles 310-275-8797
http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5256

C_1
04-25-2010, 12:26 PM
408 CheyTac :)

elSquid
04-25-2010, 1:05 PM
That is to say I have $7,000.00 budgeted for my next project, a long range tack driver!..

snip

Any other suggestions from the team on a scope that will reach out and give me great clarity? that is for around 2-3k would be killer!.. Itís my understanding that I want clarity over magnification right??

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=214398

Spend $1500 on the package, and $5500 on reloading gear and components?

-- Michael

rksimple
04-25-2010, 3:13 PM
the 2 scopes that rksimple broke

Lol. I'm a scope breakin' fool. In all honesty, the Premier didn't break per se, but it didn't like to hold zero nor track correctly. Completely unacceptable...and this was after 2 trips back to Premier.

OP-with that kind of budget, you really need to get out and get behind some rifles. You can get pretty much whatever you want. But you really need to decide what kind of shooting you want to do as the requirements are different. Are you going to shoot matches? What kind? Multiple targets/multiple distances? F class? Long range hunting? Informal trips to the desert? Is barrel life a concern? Will there be something breathing that needs to stop on the receiving end? Weight/portability concerns?

If you reload and are really serious about first round hits at distance, skip the 308 all together. You'll be happy you did. If its for ringing steel and paper out to 1k, the 243, 260, 6.5x47, etc are all better choices. If you want to hunt long range, the 338LM is much more appealing. Same with the 7wsm.

Come out to a match or one of the shoots we have monthly here. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=162630) Read these threads as well:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=214398

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=275749

rksimple
04-25-2010, 3:31 PM
As for optics, I'm waiting for the new Nightforce FFP to come out. But it depends on your intended application. FFP may not be necessary nor desirable for how you want to shoot.

Of the scopes you listed, I'd go with Nightforce for the time being. Not because they have the best features or the best glass (which they don't), but because they just flat work all the time. Reliability is job one for me after having IOR, S&B, and Premier scopes all fail on me. The Hendsolt looks to be a great scope. I've spent a little time behind the 3-12 and the glass is nice. But it only comes with a mildot reticle, and for the price, they should have better reticles available. Word has it they are coming out with some. Stay tuned. The Schmidt is a great scope and the glass is fantastic. I loved my 5-25x56 S&B while I had it...and while it worked. Its full of features, but I've heard of many stories just like mine about the reliability of the scope.

The Director
04-25-2010, 4:38 PM
If I was spending 7K on a rifle/scope combo it would be in .338 LM,

and most likely be a DTA or a Sako TRG-42.

You wouldn't have much to complain about in a Sako TRG-22 chambered in .308 either. Awesome rifles.

jmf_tracy
04-25-2010, 4:51 PM
i vote for the .308 GAP Crusader ($3700) with a PH 5-25 ($3000) mil/mil scope.
that will put you right around $6700.
http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2010-custom-rifles/ga-precision-the-crusader.html
http://www.premierreticles.com/products/

Solidsnake87
04-25-2010, 5:27 PM
Like others have said. Its not hard to make most modern factory bolt guns shoot .5MOA with the proper hand load.

You don't need to spend $7k to get a great rig. Quality gear performs well but spending tons of $$$$ does not necessarily equate to accuracy.

Go custom. Select a stock with the features you want--there are tons. I'd recommend Mcmillan, Manners, or AICS. I've uses all of these and they are well made parts. Select a match grade action that you like, again what do you really want? Long action? Short action? Dual port? Left? Right? Repeating?

Get a top end trigger. If this is primarily a match/stationary gun, a Jewell trigger can give you an awesome trigger pull at just a few ounces.

glass/pillar Bed you action to the stock and use a 20 MOA base for your scope.

Select rings from any reputable dealer. NF, USO, FN, Leupold, NF....they are all great rings.

Get a NF scope. They might not have the most features but they freaking work like nobody's business....

The most important part of precision shooting is making the right load! Be prepared to experiment! The best long range runs group better than .25" at 100 yards and 10" at 1000 yards.

I don't have the time to perfect loads for my precision rigs right now but its not hard to get .3" @ 100 yards with minimal effort.

From a strictly accuracy standpoint, get a LONG barrel (32"+). Unless you are concerned with weight (many tactical guys are), LONG barrels allow you to push the heaviest (high BC) bullets way faster. A Palma guy told me that the most accurate loads are being pushed towards a gun's pressure limits.

damon1272
04-25-2010, 7:05 PM
Dude,
Your in the OC. Spend the time and drive down to creedmore sports in Oceanside and see what they have. Follow the link. Pretty cool rifle and can be had in some great calibers that perform better than the 308.
http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=889456&cat=270&page=1

The Director
04-25-2010, 7:30 PM
Dude, here's a good one for sale in our very own forums:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=294572

Better glass and you're done, for way less than 7k. I'd put that TRG up against any of those custom jobs.

gunsmithcats
04-25-2010, 7:47 PM
holy crap RK. Didn't know you killed both -____-

So NF is coming out with a NEW FFP? I know the F1 has gotten good reports, didn't knkow theyre releasing another one.

brando
04-25-2010, 7:49 PM
ē Desert Tactical Arms as I don't know if Iíll feel comfortable with my face above the bolt?. So there out.

You're missing out - it's a fantastic platform and very versatile. Don't worry about the bolt, it's actually safer on a bullpup. In a conventional rifle, if you get a major overpressure round and the bolt lugs sheer off - it'll thump you in the face (or eye socket). With a bullpup the bolt slams back into the rear of the rifle near your shoulder. This exact situation happened with one of their rifles last year: a customer loaded up fast burning pistol powder instead of rifle powder - kaboom! The shooter was just fine and the bolt lodged itself into the but of the rifle.

As far as I recall, they offer a 1/2 MOA guarantee with match ammo. I've developed a .338LM load that makes hits on 10x17" steel at 1200 yards almost too easy and hits at 1750 yards fairly routine (weather permitting).

X-NewYawker
04-25-2010, 8:56 PM
+ 1 on Brando's last post and
+ 1 on get down to Creedmoor
Check out on of them space age-y bolt actions that use Ar-15 pistol grips and butt stocks -- right caliber and you'll be singing.

Brando you back?

p7m8jg
04-25-2010, 9:26 PM
Checkout www.nemesisarms.com. Change the barrel, change your caliber. All fits into a backpack or briefcase.

All for around $4K. Saw them at the Big Reno gun Show a week or so ago. Very impressive people.

:79:

pyro3k2
04-25-2010, 9:42 PM
408 CheyTac :)

+1 if you are throwing around that kind of coin, why not get the best option? or maybe even a .416 barret

ar15barrels
04-25-2010, 10:08 PM
My advice for someone with 7k to spend on a precision rifle: Don't spend it YET.
Buy a much less expensive gun and a real nice piece of glass that you will use later.
Go shoot out that barrel and learn what you REALLY want in a gun.
Then you will have educated yourself on what you should build or buy for yourself later when you are more qualified to fully utilize it.

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 10:37 PM
Iíve been looking forward to this thread all day..

WOW.. THANK YOU GUYS..


Why???

Buy a remington 700 in your favorite caliber:
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx

And then send it to a good gun smith like this guy:

http://www.louisianaprecisionrifles.com/

He claims .25 MOA at 100 yards using match ammo and its less than $500.00.

Then spend a good amount on good glass.... shouldn't be any more than 3 grand.

I could go that route, but I'm only going to do this once, at least that the plan hahahaa.. So I want the baddest MF I can get!.. I'm sure you understand..

That's why I'm going all out on it, well as all out as I can afford.. hahahahaa..

Thanks for the links thou.. I will read up on it tonight.. Maybe I'm just missing something here..


You've got a huge budget that will pretty much get you whatever you want. It's pretty much personal preference at this point. I think you should look at 6.5x47 Lapua or .308. .338 is nice, but a little overkill for what your going to do.

If you really just want to burn all of that money, I'd go with a Tac Ops rifle of your choice. Their attention to detail is unprecedented and I have seen their rifles shoot well below .25MOA with FGMM.

Get that and a Schmidt and Bender FFP MIL/MIL or possibly a premier or Vortex. USO's are nice and rugged as well. Do a little more research on here and on SnipersHide. You will find what you want

FYI. The SRS is a GREAT rifle that shoots well below MOA and probably closer to .5 MOA if not better. I think its a great option given its compact size and accuracy.

Excellent.. Thatís the kind of input I was hopping for.. Thank you for the advise.. I'll be doing more research now..

Thank you so much..



+1. Try to narrow your selection by what you truly want to do with it and how much $ you will have to invest later on.....some calibers really burn out barrels quickly. .308 is used by some of the best Palma guys out there. Its a great round that will give very good barrel life.

I'd try a NF NXS 3.5-15x50 in either Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA. They are great scopes that will do their job. They are a little pricey but not ridiculous. Many consider these to be one of the greatest scopes on the market and you'll see tons of people using them at matches. They are a great bang for the buck.

In terms of scope rings, I've only used NF, Leupold, and FN. Can't go wrong with either. I'm kinda biased towards the FN ones......they are quite beefy with a lot of scope contact surface area.

With that kind of money to blow, I'd recommend a custom rifle. There are SOOOOO many actions, bbl makers, and stocks out there its ridiculous. You seem to want a bolt gun.....how about gas guns? They are quite accurate themselves if you use the proper base gun. AR-15s and AR-10s you can even build yourself quite easily! If you want something as crazy as you seem to be lookin for, custom will be worth the wait if you are patient. You are in the lucky minority to be able to create a custom rifle from the outset.

Hey Solidsnake87.. I don't know what I want.. .. Iím trying to figure that one out.. I know that Iíll be shooting 600yards and under 95% of the time thou.. so Iím thinking that a 308 is the way to go.. But the Beretta is sooooo sweat.. and Iíll reload for it..

Its almost like I know I should get a 308 but Iím trying to talk myself into the 338..

I did look into getting a total costume one done, but to be honest with you, I was lost, intimated and confused beyond belief.. Trying to read up on everything (tons of actions, bbl, stocks, it was almost to much.. and for me to try to piece it tighter would be a disaster.. Maybe I need to find a reputal vender / builder and have a talk with them and see exactly how it all works out.. My thinking is itís better to buy one that be proven than build one that not..

I did look at the gas gun, but I dint like what I read on the hide about them and they don't shoot anywhere close to a bolt gun (agin so Iíve been told and have read).. LWRC has the reaper out and I was looking at it last week at rifle gear. $3,600.00 for it.. WHAT?? I can get a track driver AI AE for that kind of coin.. I have the arís I really just want a wicked bolt action rifle..

GREAT information on the scope and rings.. THANK YOU.. again more research for me..

Thank you again for your time and comments sir.. deeply appreciated..

Link..



GAP 308
Manners stock.
Nightforce 5-22X

OR

Remington 700 5R rebuilt by Shilen with 1lb trigger pull
McMillan stock (or new JAE stock)
Leupold 6.5-20X 30mm tube.
Have them but the chamber for Federal match. Buy a fee cases of ammo with the money you save over a GAP.

Did you notice how many of your potentials claimed a guarantee of 1/2 MOA/ Because a good modern rifle like an out of the box Remington VSSF can give you that. Even an M21 Springfield M1-A with Federal match will shoot 1/2 MOA. A Remington Custom shop rifle for $2500 built on a 40X action will do that.


So forget the guarantee. A SHILEN or similar custom rifle built on a 700 action that is trued and blueprinted will give you .25 MOA --

I prefer 308 over 338 for work under 1000 yards -- and 338 is ****ing expensive:


And don't be so quick to write off the DTA SRS because of the ergonomics of the bolt position -- its one of the most accurate tactical rifles out there Ė
and if you buy it in 308, later you can get a 338 lapua barrel and bolt for it it and whammo -- both calibers!

I've had some beautiful, incredible "sniper" rifles. The Kimber Advanced Tactical in 308 comes out of the stormcase shooting sub 1/2 MOA for under $3000 --

so... good luck making a choice. My ultimate advice is don't try so hard to spend ALL that $7K on rifle and optics when spending a grand less and buying a grand worth of Fedral match MAy be a better investment.

I hate you!.. Hahahaha JK...
Can I / would you mind if I sent you PM??. I would love to have the opportunity to talk with you some day and pick your brain..

Thanks..



How about a Tac Ops rifle? http://www.tacticaloperations.com/

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/tangoseries/tango51zoom.jpg

Reivew w/ group pics:

http://www.snipercentral.com/alpha66.phtml

http://www.snipercentral.com/xray51.phtml

And last I checked they were going for $3,000 IIRC?

If I had your coin, I'd get one of these with a S&B Police Marksman II 10x42

Cool.. Another choice.. I'll look into it, it sounds sweat.. Thank you..

THANK YOU..


I just put together a 1K rifle on somewhat of a budget. It's based on a Rem 5R, AI chassis, NF NXS 5.5-22x56, with Badger rings & base. It shoots sub .5MOA & I'm in it for $4000 OTD. Are you experienced in precision shooting? I'm not trying to talk you out of a top notch rig, I'm just saying that nothing is funnier that watching a guy shoot his super high end rig that can't shoot.

Hey big guy.. thanks for the inspiration, but I'm not good enough or know enough to know what action, what bbl, what anything is that I want, so I would more than likely totally screw the pooch.. Hahahaa..

NO... I'm not the best of shoots nor do I believe that the more money I spend the better I'll be.. LOL.. I've shoot out to 800yards before (loved it!) I always try to bang the steal at 500 -600 yards thou.. I know that I can hold my own (or at least I think I can) experience will come with time behind the trigger for sure.. so with that said NO I really don't think of myself as an experienced precision shooter but I want to be.. Iím more of an appetence precision shooter. ;)


A 338 is a waste for primarily shooting at 600 and even out to 1k. It is stupidly expensive to shoot as well. Build a .260, .243, or .284. But, before you plop down a ton of coin check out the Cal Precision Rifle Club meets and talk to the guys and se what they shoot. I can guarantee most aren't shooting 7k guns. And a "tack driver" that is mounted in a vise and fired three times at paper at 100yds won't mean s$%t when you lay behind it and fire it at 1k. As most will tell you, buy one of the good Remingtons in .308, a good piece of glass in quality mounts, match ammo (if you dont reload, which you will have to if you want to get serious about this) and head out to a range and start shooting. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a $$$$$ rifle is going to automatically shoot lights out. The trigger puller is the biggest quotient.

Hey Rob.. Can you please elaborate a little on your first sentence?? Is it a waste because of the ammo costs or a waste to the gun??

It's not that much if I reload.. I looked in to it and the dies are under $100, bullets are like the 308 in terms of cost, powder is the same, primers are nothing and available, that only leave the brass.. Well 100 rd of new unfired 338 Lapua is $250.00 at midway, thats not that bad for 338 brass that I can reload 6-8 times.. Itís really not much more to shoot than my .50 Beowulf.

I will.. Thank you for the link / information.. I'm writing all of the tips down and will be researching everything for the next few days.. I really, really appreciate the help and advise..

Hahahaa.. trust me.. I know the more money I pay wont give me greater accuracy.. Totally know that one sir.. Only trigger time will I do that, I just have the opportunity to start off with a *****en one.. and Iím jumping at it.. Well that is to say Iím embracing the cost of the project and researching my butt off.. :D

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 10:38 PM
Get the Schmidt and Bender or premier. I. Sold off all my other scopess to fund them

I've read GREAT things about the S&B, I do need to look into the Premiers..

thanks..


Have you contacted one of the best rifle builders that's pretty close to you
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/

you can call Mike , he answers his phone and loves to talk rifles 310-275-8797
http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5256

Uzigalil... YOU THE MAN... NO.. but I will be calling him the AM hours on Monday thou..

Thank you SIR..


408 CheyTac :)

Cool.. I'll add it to the list to review..

Thanks SIR..


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=214398

Spend $1500 on the package, and $5500 on reloading gear and components?

-- Michael

GREAT LINK.. thank you.. the AR guy is a stud.. I'll read up on that latter tonight..

I already have all of the reloading stuff. I've been doing it for the 9 years so I just need the brass and some dies..

Thanks again for the link Michael.. I’ll defiantly be checking it out in more detail..


Lol. I'm a scope breakin' fool. In all honesty, the Premier didn't break per se, but it didn't like to hold zero nor track correctly. Completely unacceptable...and this was after 2 trips back to Premier.

OP-with that kind of budget, you really need to get out and get behind some rifles. You can get pretty much whatever you want. But you really need to decide what kind of shooting you want to do as the requirements are different. Are you going to shoot matches? What kind? Multiple targets/multiple distances? F class? Long range hunting? Informal trips to the desert? Is barrel life a concern? Will there be something breathing that needs to stop on the receiving end? Weight/portability concerns?

If you reload and are really serious about first round hits at distance, skip the 308 all together. You'll be happy you did. If its for ringing steel and paper out to 1k, the 243, 260, 6.5x47, etc are all better choices. If you want to hunt long range, the 338LM is much more appealing. Same with the 7wsm.

Come out to a match or one of the shoots we have monthly here. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=162630) Read these threads as well:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=214398

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=275749


Excellent!.. rksimple!.. thank you SIR.. Thank you for all of the information.. Well except that part where your braking $$$$ scopes.. Hahahaa.. remind me not to lone you my gun.. :43:.. JK..

Agreed sir.. Time behind them I what I need but I dont know anyone who has one to try out.. BUT.. With the link you provided I just might have some place to go and beg others to see if I can squeeze off a round or two....

I’ll be out at the next match.. looking forward to it..

Would you mind if I shot you PM too?? I would love to have the opportunity to pick your brain.. I’ve read some of your past post and you defiantly know what your doing and what your talking about..

Thanks again for your time and the great advise..

Link..


As for optics, I'm waiting for the new Nightforce FFP to come out. But it depends on your intended application. FFP may not be necessary nor desirable for how you want to shoot.

Of the scopes you listed, I'd go with Nightforce for the time being. Not because they have the best features or the best glass (which they don't), but because they just flat work all the time. Reliability is job one for me after having IOR, S&B, and Premier scopes all fail on me. The Hendsolt looks to be a great scope. I've spent a little time behind the 3-12 and the glass is nice. But it only comes with a mildot reticle, and for the price, they should have better reticles available. Word has it they are coming out with some. Stay tuned. The Schmidt is a great scope and the glass is fantastic. I loved my 5-25x56 S&B while I had it...and while it worked. Its full of features, but I've heard of many stories just like mine about the reliability of the scope.

I have read over and over again that the NF scopes are solid scopes and not prone to breaking or at least as much as the other scopes.. but the glass is not the greatest..

I don’t know what I would do if broke a 3k dollar scope.. I would cry for sure, but can they get fixed? Are you just out and looking for another replacement scope?? If this is part of shooting long ie (going thou 3-5K in scopes every couple of years) I would really like to know this little tidbit..

Hey thanks again for your time sir..


If I was spending 7K on a rifle/scope combo it would be in .338 LM,

and most likely be a DTA or a Sako TRG-42.

You wouldn't have much to complain about in a Sako TRG-22 chambered in .308 either. Awesome rifles.

I'm having an issue deciding between the 308 and 338.. If ammo is the only factor? then I'm going with the 338.. But I don’t know how it will shoot at 600 yards?? will it be a waste?. 95% of the time that will be my distance.. Well at least until I start shooting with long range boys.. then I'm hopping to reach out to 1000+..

I think?. again I don’t know.. One day it’s the 308, the next day it’s the 338.. I can be such a girl sometimes.. Hahahaaa.



i vote for the .308 GAP Crusader ($3700) with a PH 5-25 ($3000) mil/mil scope.
that will put you right around $6700.
http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2010-custom-rifles/ga-precision-the-crusader.html
http://www.premierreticles.com/products/

Hey cool... thank you for the information sir.. I'll add it to the list and will defiantly check them out..

Thank you..


Like others have said. Its not hard to make most modern factory bolt guns shoot .5MOA with the proper hand load.

You don't need to spend $7k to get a great rig. Quality gear performs well but spending tons of $$$$ does not necessarily equate to accuracy.

Go custom. Select a stock with the features you want--there are tons. I'd recommend Mcmillan, Manners, or AICS. I've uses all of these and they are well made parts. Select a match grade action that you like, again what do you really want? Long action? Short action? Dual port? Left? Right? Repeating?

Get a top end trigger. If this is primarily a match/stationary gun, a Jewell trigger can give you an awesome trigger pull at just a few ounces.

glass/pillar Bed you action to the stock and use a 20 MOA base for your scope.

Select rings from any reputable dealer. NF, USO, FN, Leupold, NF....they are all great rings.

Get a NF scope. They might not have the most features but they freaking work like nobody's business....

The most important part of precision shooting is making the right load! Be prepared to experiment! The best long range runs group better than .25" at 100 yards and 10" at 1000 yards.

I don't have the time to perfect loads for my precision rigs right now but its not hard to get .3" @ 100 yards with minimal effort.

From a strictly accuracy standpoint, get a LONG barrel (32"+). Unless you are concerned with weight (many tactical guys are), LONG barrels allow you to push the heaviest (high BC) bullets way faster. A Palma guy told me that the most accurate loads are being pushed towards a gun's pressure limits.


Thank you for the GREAT information.. I’m really looking for Quality here.. I know that more money wont buy me accuracy, but it will get me something that I can keep forever and pass on to my son.. Me I’m getting all of my DAD’s guns, My son, well he’ll never need to buy a pistol or rifle.. Hahhahaaa. I’m just one of those guys that truly believes that you get what your pay for..

Experimenting with different rounds is nothing new to me.. I like that aspect, I do it for almost all of my calibers now.. WOW.. .03 are you serious sir??

Barrel length is one of the things that I’m still trying to wrap my head around for sure.. 20”, 24” I was told by some guys over on the hide that I want a 26” barrel?.. 32” sound way heavy.. I know it will reach out there but DAM.. That’s a lot of rifle for sure..

I try not to push my loads to max, but that’s just me, I might need to rethink it then.. Good to know..

Thank you again sir for the great information..


Dude,
Your in the OC. Spend the time and drive down to creedmore sports in Oceanside and see what they have. Follow the link. Pretty cool rifle and can be had in some great calibers that perform better than the 308.
http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=889456&cat=270&page=1

Hahaa.. Thanks SIR.. I didn’t have a clue.. I spend all my time researching the products.. I didn’t really research the places yet.. GREAT TO KNOW..

Thanks MAN..


Dude, here's a good one for sale in our very own forums:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=294572

Better glass and you're done, for way less than 7k. I'd put that TRG up against any of those custom jobs.

That's fricken sweat!.. I'll need to research the stuff he has on it.. but totally doable and I've got the cash in hand for it too..

Thanks sir.. thank you very much for the heads up..

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 10:38 PM
You're missing out - it's a fantastic platform and very versatile. Don't worry about the bolt, it's actually safer on a bullpup. In a conventional rifle, if you get a major overpressure round and the bolt lugs sheer off - it'll thump you in the face (or eye socket). With a bullpup the bolt slams back into the rear of the rifle near your shoulder. This exact situation happened with one of their rifles last year: a customer loaded up fast burning pistol powder instead of rifle powder - kaboom! The shooter was just fine and the bolt lodged itself into the but of the rifle.

As far as I recall, they offer a 1/2 MOA guarantee with match ammo. I've developed a .338LM load that makes hits on 10x17" steel at 1200 yards almost too easy and hits at 1750 yards fairly routine (weather permitting).

Hey Brando.. your one the guys here that I've read tons of your post.. and you have my upmost respect sir.. Thank you..

Maybe I'm wrong on the bullpup.. I was afraid that it would take my head clear off and I was never able to find anything on the accuracy of it..

I'l You're missing out - it's a fantastic platform and very versatile. Don't worry about the bolt, it's actually safer on a bullpup. In a conventional rifle, if you get a major overpressure round and the bolt lugs sheer off - it'll thump you in the face (or eye socket). With a bullpup the bolt slams back into the rear of the rifle near your shoulder. This exact situation happened with one of their rifles last year: a customer loaded up fast burning pistol powder instead of rifle powder - kaboom! The shooter was just fine and the bolt lodged itself into the but of the rifle.

As far as I recall, they offer a 1/2 MOA guarantee with match ammo. I've developed a .338LM load that makes hits on 10x17" steel at 1200 yards almost too easy and hits at 1750 yards fairly routine (weather permitting).

Hey Brando.. your one the guys here that I've read tons of your post.. and you have my upmost respect sir.. Thank you..

Maybe I'm wrong on the bullpup.. I was afraid that it would take my head clear off and I was never able to find anything on the accuracy of it..

I’ll be heading to the next CG match so hopefully someone will have one I can try out.. I will give it a second look..

Thank you sir.. Thank you for your time and input..



+ 1 on Brando's last post and
+ 1 on get down to Creedmoor
Check out on of them space age-y bolt actions that use Ar-15 pistol grips and butt stocks -- right caliber and you'll be singing.

Brando you back?

Excellent.. I will do just that..

Thanks Man..


Checkout www.nemesisarms.com. Change the barrel, change your caliber. All fits into a backpack or briefcase.

All for around $4K. Saw them at the Big Reno gun Show a week or so ago. Very impressive people.

:79:

Never knew this one existed.. Way cool.. Thanks for the link too.. I'll check it out..


+1 if you are throwing around that kind of coin, why not get the best option? or maybe even a .416 barret

Hahaaa don’t kid yourself.. I looked at the 416 Barrett but I gave up when I discovered that there over $8K and then I'll need a 5k scope for it. Way to rich for my blood.. I'm looking forward to checking out the 408 tec thou.

I actually found a BB for the .416 Hahahaaa.. It amazing what your find out on the net..

Linkpimp
04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
Hey TEAM.. I just wanted to say THANK YOU… so much for your time and fab input.. I’ll be researching some things over the next few days, Including the rifle we have in our for sale section…

You guys are the greatest.. if you don't mind I’ll post up my next research results for your review, thoughts and advise too??..

Have a great one team and thank you again..

Shaun.

RRangel
04-25-2010, 11:00 PM
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/rooker-sniper.jpg


Excuse the change in topic, but what's the verdict on that B&C stock?

ar15barrels
04-25-2010, 11:44 PM
Thank you for the GREAT information.. I’m really looking for Quality here.. I know that more money wont buy me accuracy, but it will get me something that I can keep forever and pass on to my son..

Precision rifles are never a one-time purchase.
If you REALLY use it, plan to rebarrel it every year.
Many guys have several of them so they can always have one good one to use and the other in the shop getting rebuilt.
There are also different types of builds and many people will have a different gun for longrange and a different one for short to midrange.

On the 338, recoil and muzzle blast can be harsh to the point that they are not pleasant to shoot.
Barrel life can also be quite short on almost all the magnums so consider that a barrel would last less than 1000 rounds...

lehn20
04-26-2010, 12:06 AM
If it was my money, I would buy the Surgeon. Simple based on the fact that is has the best action of all of them IMO. Topped of with a NF 5.5-22x56 in Badger or Warn rings with a Smith Ent bipod and you are set.

What do you consider long range? Sounds like you should get 300 winmag or 338 lapua. 308 starts to suffer after 1000 yards but can hit 1200.

If you ever plan on leaving CA I would opt for a 18-20"barrel cut and threadded for a future suppressor.

Linkpimp
05-03-2010, 8:34 PM
Part 1 of phase 1 is complete.. Unfortunately its $2,840.00 over budget.. (ahhhhh)Ö. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/eek.gif http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/shakehead.gif


Rifle
300 win $4,200
(1) Extra Mag $110.00
Cleaning kit $75.00
Tool kit $110.00
308 Conversation kit $1,500
(1) Extra mag $110.00

300 Win loading supplies:
300 win dies $65.00
300 win brass $90.00 (100 pieces)
700 of 150-200gr match (Berger, Speer, Hornady, Sierra) bullets $250.00
1,500 of the large rifle mag primers $45.00
Pelican hard case $350.00

Total spent $6,840.00 out of the original $7000 budget.. NO scope!..

You might be asking yourself.. DUDE!!! WTF.. how??? How could you f this one up so badÖ???? http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/toetap05.gif


WellÖ.
I went back and re-reviewed my initial rifle requirements and simply found a rifle that will grow with me and can fully meet all of my requirements (90% under 600 yards) and (10% at 1,000+ yards).. After receiving some outstanding advise on many of the firearm forums and going back and doing yet more research, reading comparing specs, options, barrel life, known MOAís, receiving yet more advice from some top shooters, etc, etc, etc.. I decided to go with this rifle..



Yes Iím very HAPPY!..

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/jump.gif

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/IMG_6843-1.jpg


NooooÖ. I don't want to give it up..


http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/IMG_6844.jpg

Linkpimp
05-03-2010, 8:34 PM
I ended up getting a Desert Tactical Arms (SRS) Stealth Recon Scout rifle.

Rifle # 1:
Chambered in .300 win
Affective Range 1,200 yards
Weight 12 lbs
Barrel 26 fluted, match grade free floating
Twist 1 in 10
Match trigger with weight and length adjustments 1 – 6 lbs
Overall Length 38”
Magazine Capacity 5 rounds

Rifle # 2:
SRS .308 Win Conversion kit
This conversion kit can be changed out in less than 60 seconds in the field with a 5mm allen wrench. The kit includes barrel, bolt, magazine and bolt stop, which shortens the bolt throw on the 308.
Range: 800 yards
Weight 11.4
Barrel Length 22”
Twist 1 in 11
Overall Length 31.5”

I also found this shop http://www.freedomgunworks.com/desert-tactical-arms/stealth-recon-scout-barrel-conversions/prod_39.html they offer the following conversations / calibers for it, so my choices are only limited to my wallet:
7WSM
.260Rem
.243Win
6.5x47Lapua
.300WinMag
.388Lapua


I think I made a fine choice, especially after having the opportunity to speak with few people who actually own and shoot this rifle all the time. Its one rifle, one scope, with many caliber options available.

Linkpimp
05-03-2010, 8:35 PM
Ok team, so that completes part one of the project, I’ll have the rifle in 10 days / on the 11th..

Now I need to turn my full attention to a scope for this bad boy..

But the bottom line is I need a scope, I’m out of founds and I’ll will be selling or rifle or two to get it.. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/cry.gif

I’ve pretty much decided on my scope, I’ll be getting the Schmidt & Bender, PMII 5-25x56 for it..


Anyway team, that’s my update.. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/popcorn1.gif

Thanks again for your time everybody.. I’ll post up some pics once I get the rifle in..

Have a great week everybody..

Link..

P.S.
Special thanks to “Brando” for having me take a good look at this rifle.. Thanks Man..

buffybuster
05-03-2010, 8:41 PM
If you could have waited, I think this would have filled the bill nicely.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=297373

bridgeport
05-03-2010, 8:50 PM
My advice for someone with 7k to spend on a precision rifle: Don't spend it YET.
Buy a much less expensive gun and a real nice piece of glass that you will use later.
Go shoot out that barrel and learn what you REALLY want in a gun.
Then you will have educated yourself on what you should build or buy for yourself later when you are more qualified to fully utilize it.

That... is some darn good advice!

Linkpimp
05-03-2010, 8:52 PM
If you could have waited, I think this would have filled the bill nicely.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=297373


That's one sweet 243 track driver... no question there.. But no regrets here.. I pretty stoked with my new 300 win and 308...

Linkpimp
05-03-2010, 8:55 PM
That... is some darn good advice!


I liked this advise better.. :43:

You're missing out - it's a fantastic platform and very versatile. Don't worry about the bolt, it's actually safer on a bullpup. In a conventional rifle, if you get a major overpressure round and the bolt lugs sheer off - it'll thump you in the face (or eye socket). With a bullpup the bolt slams back into the rear of the rifle near your shoulder. This exact situation happened with one of their rifles last year: a customer loaded up fast burning pistol powder instead of rifle powder - kaboom! The shooter was just fine and the bolt lodged itself into the but of the rifle.

As far as I recall, they offer a 1/2 MOA guarantee with match ammo. I've developed a .338LM load that makes hits on 10x17" steel at 1200 yards almost too easy and hits at 1750 yards fairly routine (weather permitting).

ar15barrels
05-03-2010, 9:00 PM
The real question will be to see if the OP is a gun owner or a shooter.
I'll be watching out for that SRS with the 308 barrel on my firing line...

www.caprc.com

ar15barrels
05-03-2010, 9:02 PM
Iíve pretty much decided on my scope, Iíll be getting the Schmidt & Bender, PMII 5-25x56 for it..

Get the Gen 2 XR reticle.

postal
05-03-2010, 9:09 PM
Your money but I wouldnt have gone that way.

260 or 243 for sure- Not any reason to go 308 anymore except that it has long barrel life.

300 is going to punish you.... make ya not want to shoot it- you need to spend more coin and get a good brake put on.

Now spend about $500-600 more and get a decent bolt action 22lr with a nikon/mueller/weaver scope and learn precision shooting with the 22 so you dont waste ammo in that biggun.

As always, AR15 barrels had excellent advice in this thread.

Hows that trigger feel in that thing with a link or connector? Couldnt help at all.

Linkpimp
05-03-2010, 9:50 PM
The real question will be to see if the OP is a gun owner or a shooter.
I'll be watching out for that SRS with the 308 barrel on my firing line...

www.caprc.com

Hey thanks for the link.. I already joined up.. I'm really looking forward to meeting, learning and shooting with you guys..

I should have everything ready in a few weeks..


Get the Gen 2 XR reticle.

Thanks Sir.. I'll look into that one for sure.. much appreciated..



Your money but I wouldnt have gone that way.

260 or 243 for sure- Not any reason to go 308 anymore except that it has long barrel life.

300 is going to punish you.... make ya not want to shoot it- you need to spend more coin and get a good brake put on.

Now spend about $500-600 more and get a decent bolt action 22lr with a nikon/mueller/weaver scope and learn precision shooting with the 22 so you dont waste ammo in that biggun.

As always, AR15 barrels had excellent advice in this thread.

Hows that trigger feel in that thing with a link or connector? Couldnít help at all.

I looked at the 243, etc just didnít appeal to me a few different levels that all..

The 308 is the Go-to caliber IMO, tons of load development on it already, Iíll be more than confident up to 800 yards with it, and the kick is extremely tolerable.

No on the 22, Iím going to learn on the 308 and move up the 300 when it time to have to have some real fun. I reload now, so the 308 costs me around .50 round, more than affordable IMO..

The kick.. Hahahaaa nooooo.. Iíve shot plenty of 300 win and this thing should be no where near my .50 Beowulf and I loved shooting that, so Iím not concern in the slightest.. They say shooting the 308 in the rifle do to its design has no kick at all and the 300 win feels like a regular 308.. But hey, like you said.. If I don't like Iíll just get a different brake for it..

Iíve read nothing but great reviews all the way around regarding the trigger.. Iíve only dry fired it a few times. I know Iíll need to make some adjustments to it but it unfortunately its just too early to tell what they will be..

Either way, it was my $$$ and at this point I regret nothing..

Well I do still need to pay for the scope but buy once cry once is my moto..

ar15barrels
05-03-2010, 9:54 PM
Thanks Sir.. I'll look into that one for sure.. much appreciated..

Depending on WHEN you are going to get the scope, you might also wait for the new caprc custom reticle that will be made up in a run of USO 3.8-22 scopes...

StraightShooter
05-03-2010, 9:55 PM
To be completely honest, i think you made a decent choice. By getting the .308 kit you will be able to get a lot of good practice out of it for not a whole lot of money and not having to worry about toasting the barrel in 2000 rounds. Once you get good at reading the wind and hitting targets out to 800 yards then start with the .300WM. If you start with the .300 you will likely develope a lot of bad habits from the increased recoil like flinching, pushing or jerking the trigger. The .300WM is a good choice for what I think you want. The .300WM will get you to 1200 yards accurately and instead of buying two guns, one in .308 and one in .300 you actually are saving a little money. If it turns out you really like shooting long range and you decide the DTA isnt the rifle for you, it will likely hold good resale value. Bottom line is, you had the money to make something happen, so now get out there and shoot it and see what happens. If you like it you will start hanging around us guys that do this thing on a regular basis and get a feel for what actions, stocks, calibers, etc you would like to eventually build a truly custom gun to fit your needs and while its is being built you will at least have something to shoot. Sure you could have spend even less and got a true custom but for your situation I personally dont think you did a bad job. As far as a scope goes, the S&B and the Premier are renowned for their crystal clear glass, the USO's are renowned for their features and customizability, and the nightforces are renowned for their durability. I personally use Nightforces because they are hands down the best bang for the buck with more than edequately clear glass, positive adjustments, good reticle choices and excellent durability. All scopes are prone to failure, just some more than others. When you go with a high end scope, it somethin breaks the manufacturer will usuallly fix it free of charge but if it means DQ'ing a stage in a high stakes match or trading a little clarity for a more durable scope, my opinion is choose the more durable scope. Anyways, good luck man.

Linkpimp
05-03-2010, 10:40 PM
Depending on WHEN you are going to get the scope, you might also wait for the new caprc custom reticle that will be made up in a run of USO 3.8-22 scopes...

Well I figure I'll have the $$ for the scope in about 2-3 weeks, so I'll be getting it by the end of the month..

I looked hard.. HARD at the USO and read tons of reviews from the magazines and people at own them.. IDK.. SIR.. I looked hard at March scopes too, very high end, but for some reason I kept coming back the S&B.. I'm going with my gut on this one.. I know it's not a strong as Night force but the lens / clarity is top notch..

What / which ever scope I chose will be the wrong one.. Hahahhaaa..


I do still need to figure out all the differences thou so I the mean time Iím reading everything I can about scopes..



To be completely honest, i think you made a decent choice. By getting the .308 kit you will be able to get a lot of good practice out of it for not a whole lot of money and not having to worry about toasting the barrel in 2000 rounds. Once you get good at reading the wind and hitting targets out to 800 yards then start with the .300WM. If you start with the .300 you will likely develope a lot of bad habits from the increased recoil like flinching, pushing or jerking the trigger. The .300WM is a good choice for what I think you want. The .300WM will get you to 1200 yards accurately and instead of buying two guns, one in .308 and one in .300 you actually are saving a little money. If it turns out you really like shooting long range and you decide the DTA isnt the rifle for you, it will likely hold good resale value. Bottom line is, you had the money to make something happen, so now get out there and shoot it and see what happens. If you like it you will start hanging around us guys that do this thing on a regular basis and get a feel for what actions, stocks, calibers, etc you would like to eventually build a truly custom gun to fit your needs and while its is being built you will at least have something to shoot. Sure you could have spend even less and got a true custom but for your situation I personally dont think you did a bad job. As far as a scope goes, the S&B and the Premier are renowned for their crystal clear glass, the USO's are renowned for their features and customizability, and the nightforces are renowned for their durability. I personally use Nightforces because they are hands down the best bang for the buck with more than edequately clear glass, positive adjustments, good reticle choices and excellent durability. All scopes are prone to failure, just some more than others. When you go with a high end scope, it somethin breaks the manufacturer will usuallly fix it free of charge but if it means DQ'ing a stage in a high stakes match or trading a little clarity for a more durable scope, my opinion is choose the more durable scope. Anyways, good luck man.


Hey thanks straigtshooter..
Iíve shot some long distance well to me 600-800 before in the past and loved it.. Yes Iím a newb but hey we all need to start somewhere.. I did have the opportunity to review (NOT shoot) a lot of top notch guns, the main problem was I really couldnít find one that fit my shooting requirements, Iím shooting 600-800 max 90% of the time = 308.. I wanted to be able to learn and shoot 1000 + with confidence in my equipment and the 338 was just much of a gun for me.. This multi-purpose configuration / setup provides me with IMO the best of both worlds, like you said, 308 cheep to shoot and learn on, 300 win have some fun with the gang / big boys..

Itís really going to come down to trigger time and commitment on my part.. Well aware of that and I have already discussed my possible absent on the weekend with the wife and kids already, so Iím layout the foundation now and really looking forward to the follow though on my part..

I think I have a have built myself a strong foundation to work off and Iím really looking forward to the reloading and shooting ahead..


Scopes.. Man.. this one has been tough.. Iíve had the pleasure of looking through a few high dollar ones and I know that you get what you pay for..

You nailed it thoughÖ. This statement has never been truer..

S&B and the Premier are renowned for their crystal clear glass

USO's are renowned for their features and customizability

Nightforces are renowned for their durability.

Iím kinda just going with my gut at the moment, but Iím still reviewing and reading reports on the hide..

IDK.. the S&B I think with again 90% of the time will be at 308 and 10% on the 300 win. So it will not take that much abuse, so Iím trying to talk myself into it..

brando
05-04-2010, 8:00 PM
Glad to see you took my advice to heart - that's almost my exact setup ;)

Mute
05-04-2010, 9:33 PM
You made a good choice, though you should have just held off on the .300 WM kit and got a scope first. The .308 would have gotten you to 1000 yards with the right load. You could have waited for the .300WM. After all, how often are you going to go past 1000? Either way, you've got a great platform. Now, you just need the optic. You could always get a less expensive scope for now, something that's easy to resell, so you can get on the range.

postal
05-05-2010, 5:21 PM
A number of people have been mentioning 243 and 260 because these are the ones winning the most matches lately. Yeah a 308 can and has won matches, but more often than not, its a 243,260 or 6.5x47.

Put it this way... I have a low end 308 for matches, and wish I had a 260. Yea it'll wear a barrel over twice as fast, but if you take long range seriously, you want any edge you can get- and it's flatter trajectory and less wind drift make it more likely to hit a target compared to 308 assuming same quality rifle and same level of skill.

If you're happy with your decision, great! Thats what matters.

There are a number of 22lr precision rifle matches now. Same skill sheap ammo, and decent rifle with a decent low end scope is not expensive. It's practice/training and matches that will help increase your skill level. Even a pellet gun can build quality marksmanship skill.

I saw a guy with a 50 bmg at the range once with a nightforce scope on it- had NO idea how to get it dialed in for 100 yds. Claims last time it was out he was shooting 600 yds and didnt know how to bring it back down to 100.... Guy with a mint in his rifle/scope and ammo... and no idea how to use it.....

bomb_on_bus
05-05-2010, 6:48 PM
How about a Tac Ops rifle? http://www.tacticaloperations.com/

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/tangoseries/tango51zoom.jpg

Reivew w/ group pics:

http://www.snipercentral.com/alpha66.phtml

http://www.snipercentral.com/xray51.phtml

And last I checked they were going for $3,000 IIRC?

If I had your coin, I'd get one of these with a S&B Police Marksman II 10x42

+1


The next precision bolt action i will get is going to be a tac ops.

They have rifles getting right around .1moa which is the best I have heard of any precision rifle outfit out there. They may not have all the tacticool features but the rifles they make are out of this world accurate and if you get the chance to talk to Mike at tac ops he will school you on what he does to machine a super tight tolerence rifle.

bomb_on_bus
05-05-2010, 6:53 PM
Part 1 of phase 1 is complete.. Unfortunately its $2,840.00 over budget.. (ahhhhh)Ö. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/eek.gif http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/shakehead.gif


Rifle
300 win $4,200
(1) Extra Mag $110.00
Cleaning kit $75.00
Tool kit $110.00
308 Conversation kit $1,500
(1) Extra mag $110.00

300 Win loading supplies:
300 win dies $65.00
300 win brass $90.00 (100 pieces)
700 of 150-200gr match (Berger, Speer, Hornady, Sierra) bullets $250.00
1,500 of the large rifle mag primers $45.00
Pelican hard case $350.00

Total spent $6,840.00 out of the original $7000 budget.. NO scope!..

You might be asking yourself.. DUDE!!! WTF.. how??? How could you f this one up so badÖ???? http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/toetap05.gif


WellÖ.
I went back and re-reviewed my initial rifle requirements and simply found a rifle that will grow with me and can fully meet all of my requirements (90% under 600 yards) and (10% at 1,000+ yards).. After receiving some outstanding advise on many of the firearm forums and going back and doing yet more research, reading comparing specs, options, barrel life, known MOAís, receiving yet more advice from some top shooters, etc, etc, etc.. I decided to go with this rifle..



Yes Iím very HAPPY!..

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/fun%20stuff/jump.gif

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/IMG_6843-1.jpg


NooooÖ. I don't want to give it up..


http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii195/TDC57/Misc%20photos/IMG_6844.jpg





Nice grab!

I was down at riflegear a couple of weeks ago and was drooling over the rifle. It definately got the attention of everyone there!

Also thats a good way to spend tax returns!

themailman
05-05-2010, 7:03 PM
As far as the rifle goes, Ive heard that its hard to beat the AI AE.

I read in some gun rag that there were initial problems with the Swarovski scopes, dont know how much that holds true, but thats as much advice as Im qualified to give haha.

adamsreeftank
05-05-2010, 7:40 PM
If I had your budget I would have GAP build me a 260 Remington on a Surgeon action with a heavy fluted barrel. I'd use a Manners stock and an S&B scope. That would give you more range than a 308 without the weight and ongoing expense of the 338. Another one to consider would be a 7mm WSM.

edit_I see you made your choice. Now put some glass on that thing and let's see some 10 shot groups.

Solidsnake87
05-05-2010, 11:26 PM
Looks like you made your decision.................I hope you actually do take that rifle out and shoot distance with it. If you don't, you WAY overspent for all the 100 yd ranges out there. lol.

Why not go for a NF scope to start with? They cost less than half the price of the S&B and hold their value REALLY well if you decide to upgrade later....... Plus you won't have to sell as many guns to fund it :p

ar15barrels
05-05-2010, 11:54 PM
The next precision bolt action i will get is going to be a tac ops.

They have rifles getting right around .1moa which is the best I have heard of any precision rifle outfit out there. They may not have all the tacticool features but the rifles they make are out of this world accurate and if you get the chance to talk to Mike at tac ops he will school you on what he does to machine a super tight tolerence rifle.

Any good rifle builder can get a gun to shoot that well when you put it on bags and actually develop a load for it.

Here's a group I shot real quick on saturday to check zero before a match:

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/243target2.jpg

It's only 3 rounds, but the purpose was not to shoot a group.
My purpose was to check zero.

Some things to know about how the group was shot and about the gun:
It's only a trued Remington 700 action with a broughton barrel that I chambered and fitted, not even a custom action.
Harris Bipod and a triad bag in prone on concrete, no benchrest here.
No load development, I just picked a charge and went with it.
I was in a hurry and not really concentrating on shooting a tight group.
If I had been concentrating, I would have fired more rounds but I don't really want to wear this barrel out any faster than I already am (1300 rounds since mid november).

rksimple
05-06-2010, 6:53 AM
Any good rifle builder can get a gun to shoot that well when you put it on bags and actually develop a load for it.

Here's a group I shot real quick on saturday to check zero before a match:

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/243target2.jpg

It's only 3 rounds, but the purpose was not to shoot a group.
My purpose was to check zero.

Some things to know about how the group was shot and about the gun:
It's only a trued Remington 700 action with a broughton barrel that I chambered and fitted, not even a custom action.
Harris Bipod and a triad bag in prone on concrete, no benchrest here.
No load development, I just picked a charge and went with it.
I was in a hurry and not really concentrating on shooting a tight group.
If I had been concentrating, I would have fired more rounds but I don't really want to wear this barrel out any faster than I already am (1300 rounds since mid november).

That looks like my first group that day. Same load, same barrel, same builder. Seems to work. :)

Bhobbs
05-06-2010, 7:59 AM
If you are going a custom rifle why not get a better round than .308? Have them build one in .260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47 Lapua.

ar15barrels
05-06-2010, 8:01 AM
If you are going a custom rifle why not get a better round than .308? Have them build one in .260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47 Lapua.

New precision rifle shooters are better served with a 308 because they often don't reload.
In the beginning, the best thing you can do is shoot a LOT and that means wearing out barrels.
6.5's last anywhere from 1/2 to 1/3 as long as a 308 barrel.

Shooting a 308 a lot will turn them into reloaders.
Then they are ready for a 6.5 or 6mm.

Bhobbs
05-06-2010, 8:04 AM
New precision rifle shooters are better served with a 308 because they often don't reload.
In the beginning, the best thing you can do is shoot a LOT and that means wearing out barrels.
6.5's last anywhere from 1/2 to 1/3 as long as a 308 barrel.

Shooting a 308 a lot will turn them into reloaders.
Then they are ready for a 6.5 or 6mm.

I think he said he reloads already.

reidnez
05-06-2010, 8:27 AM
Accuracy International AE
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/ae_series.php
Accuracy is
Pricing is $3,369.00
Weight 13.4oz

:eek: :58:

Get that one! A precision rifle that weighs less than a loaded M16 magazine...what's not to love?!

Seems like you made a good choice. Yeah, we all would have done something different but then it's not our money, is it? I would love to build a 1200-yd. rifle, but there is no range anywhere near me (that I know of) where I could take advantage of that, so .308 is my go-to. I'd love to have something exotic like a .338 or .410, one day.

Nice setup :thumbsup:

xrMike
05-06-2010, 9:05 AM
6.5's last anywhere from 1/2 to 1/3 as long as a 308 barrel.

What is equivalent barrel life of .243 (relative to .308)? How many rounds is that (approx)? Thanks.

Linkpimp
05-06-2010, 9:16 AM
Glad to see you took my advice to heart - that's almost my exact setup ;)

Yep.. I did go back and take a second look at it and was very impressed with it.. I really do appreciate the advise sir.. I was initially really concerned about the bolt failure but that fear has since diminished..

Thanks again big guy, maybe one day you'll show me how to shoot the 1,250 shoot you do in the video.. :43:


You made a good choice, though you should have just held off on the .300 WM kit and got a scope first. The .308 would have gotten you to 1000 yards with the right load. You could have waited for the .300WM. After all, how often are you going to go past 1000? Either way, you've got a great platform. Now, you just need the optic. You could always get a less expensive scope for now, something that's easy to resell, so you can get on the range.

Hey Mute.. Thanks sir.. Yeah.. well to be honest with you I couldn’t find a 308 anywhere in any of the states, I even called DT and they confirmed that there aren’t anywhere and it would be 4-6 months if I ordered it.. I did find (2) 338 in so-cal thou but I took the teams advise and passed on it and got the 300 win and found a 308 kit.. I'm just going to sell off some of my other rifles and buy a scope.. It sucks but I'm making this my commitment, I want to learn to shoot long..

Yeah I her you for sure on the scope.. I'm thinking about the same thing a starter / learning scope is what I've been calling it.. The jury is still out..

Thanks for your time sir..


A number of people have been mentioning 243 and 260 because these are the ones winning the most matches lately. Yeah a 308 can and has won matches, but more often than not, its a 243,260 or 6.5x47.

Put it this way... I have a low end 308 for matches, and wish I had a 260. Yea it'll wear a barrel over twice as fast, but if you take long range seriously, you want any edge you can get- and it's flatter trajectory and less wind drift make it more likely to hit a target compared to 308 assuming same quality rifle and same level of skill.

If you're happy with your decision, great! Thats what matters.

There are a number of 22lr precision rifle matches now. Same skill sheap ammo, and decent rifle with a decent low end scope is not expensive. It's practice/training and matches that will help increase your skill level. Even a pellet gun can build quality marksmanship skill.

I saw a guy with a 50 bmg at the range once with a nightforce scope on it- had NO idea how to get it dialed in for 100 yds. Claims last time it was out he was shooting 600 yds and didnt know how to bring it back down to 100.... Guy with a mint in his rifle/scope and ammo... and no idea how to use it.....

Hey Postal, Yeah I looked at the 243’s, 260 etc and I really just didn’t want to head down that road, the 308 has some awesome loads already developed for it, its cheep to reload and shoot and should provide me a great platform when I pull out my 300 win, I regret nothing at all.. I’m just chomping at the bit to shot it.. I’m actually going to start reloading for here this weekend in anticipation of next week.. Hahahaaa..


+1


The next precision bolt action i will get is going to be a tac ops.

They have rifles getting right around .1moa which is the best I have heard of any precision rifle outfit out there. They may not have all the tacticool features but the rifles they make are out of this world accurate and if you get the chance to talk to Mike at tac ops he will school you on what he does to machine a super tight tolerence rifle.

+ 1 on the tac ops.. They are outstanding rifles for sure.. I loved those, the AI's, Surgeon, Stiller’s, etc, etc.. I just chose to go a different route. but hey best of luck to you with your future purchase.. I'll be looking forward to range reports..



Nice grab!

I was down at riflegear a couple of weeks ago and was drooling over the rifle. It definately got the attention of everyone there!

Also thats a good way to spend tax returns!

Thanks sir.. I think just about everyone who's gone into RG has fondled her at one point or another.. Hahahahaa.. Yep.. Next years tax return = S&B scope..



As far as the rifle goes, Ive heard that its hard to beat the AI AE.

I read in some gun rag that there were initial problems with the Swarovski scopes, dont know how much that holds true, but thats as much advice as Im qualified to give haha.

The AI (AE and AW) are awesome rifles for sure.. I almost got one, but with this rifle I have multiple rifles available to me with almost the same accuracy as the AI's, plus it’s one foot shorter.. got to love that..

I've read good and bad things about the Swarovski, but then again I've read good and bad things about every scope..

IDK..the scope is TBD..


If I had your budget I would have GAP build me a 260 Remington on a Surgeon action with a heavy fluted barrel. I'd use a Manners stock and an S&B scope. That would give you more range than a 308 without the weight and ongoing expense of the 338. Another one to consider would be a 7mm WSM.

edit_I see you made your choice. Now put some glass on that thing and let's see some 10 shot groups.

Hey thanks for the advise sir, but yeah I already got something.. YEP.. I need some glass for sure.. 10 shot groups?? I thought 3-5 shot group?? Man this is tough crowd.. hahaa..

Have a great one big guy..


Looks like you made your decision.................I hope you actually do take that rifle out and shoot distance with it. If you don't, you WAY overspent for all the 100 yd ranges out there. lol.

Why not go for a NF scope to start with? They cost less than half the price of the S&B and hold their value REALLY well if you decide to upgrade later....... Plus you won't have to sell as many guns to fund it :p


Hahahaa... that was GREAT and so true.. yes sir I plan on shooting the piss out of it, but I'm thinking it will be hell of a lot longer than 100 yards.. LOL..

I'm still looking at scopes and trying to figure that out.. I know I'll end up with a S&B so why not just bite the bullet sell off 2-3 rifles / guns and call it day.. but then again I could just get something to last me a year and get the S&B next year.. IDK.. It's TBD at this point.. I do know I’m picking her up next week, and I do know I'll be shooting her within a week of that.. Hahahaa..


I think he said he reloads already.

I do and have been for years..

I'm sorry guys if my choice of caliber is not up to your standards, I happen to like the 308..:p If I need that extra flatness for something I’ll just switch barrels to the 300 win.. It should only take me 60 seconds.. ;)

I just really need some trigger time now, I don’t think I would have gained any advantage in starting on anything else than / over the 308 IMO.. But then I'm wrong all the time.. LOL..

Either way I'm just really happy to finally get my long gun and I'm really looking forward to learning on a solid platform.




Get that one! A precision rifle that weighs less than a loaded M16 magazine...what's not to love?!:


Hahahaaaa.. Oppps.. Hey sorry about that one.. LOL..


Seems like you made a good choice. Yeah, we all would have done something different but then it's not our money, is it? I would love to build a 1200-yd. rifle, but there is no range anywhere near me (that I know of) where I could take advantage of that, so .308 is my go-to. I'd love to have something exotic like a .338 or .410, one day.

Nice setup :thumbsup:

Absolutely agree, everyone would have done something different, totally understand that, I was really appreciative of all of the different input too.. I'm really happy with choice, now I just need to get it and shoot it.

ar15barrels
05-06-2010, 9:49 AM
What is equivalent barrel life of .243 (relative to .308)? How many rounds is that (approx)? Thanks.

Choosing a Cartridge (http://www.caprc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34)

ar15barrels
05-06-2010, 9:51 AM
I looked at the 243’s, 260 etc and I really just didn’t want to head down that road, the 308 has some awesome loads already developed for it, its cheep to reload and shoot and should provide me a great platform when I pull out my 300 win, I regret nothing at all.

I'll be here when you are ready to re-cant that statement. ;)

Here's a baseline 308 load:
175 SMK @ 2550 fps
Range Drop Wind
(yd) (mil) (MOA) (mil) (MOA)
100 0 0 0 0
200 -0.6 -2 0.2 0.8
300 -1.4 -4.9 0.5 1.7
350 -1.9 -6.6 0.6 2.1
400 -2.5 -8.4 0.7 2.6
425 -2.7 -9.4 0.8 2.8
500 -3.6 -12.4 1 3.6
600 -4.9 -16.9 1.4 4.7
800 -8.1 -28 2.1 7.2
900 -10.1 -34.7 2.5 8.7
1000 -12.4 -42.6 3 10.3


300win mag is certainly better:

190gr SMK at 2700fps
Range Drop Wind
(yd) (mil) (MOA) (mil) (MOA)
100 0 0 0 0
200 -0.5 -1.6 0.2 0.7
300 -1.2 -4.1 0.4 1.3
400 -2.1 -7.1 0.6 2.1
425 -2.3 -7.9 0.7 2.3
500 -3 -10.4 0.8 2.9
600 -4.1 -14.1 1.1 3.7
800 -6.7 -22.9 1.6 5.6
900 -8.2 -28.1 2 6.7
1000 -9.9 -34 2.3 7.9


243 is best though:
115gr dtac @ 2950 fps
Range Drop Wind
(yd) (mil) (MOA) (mil) (MOA)
100 0 0 0 0
200 -0.3 -1.2 0.2 0.6
300 -0.9 -3.2 0.3 1.1
400 -1.6 -5.6 0.5 1.8
425 -1.8 -6.2 0.6 1.9
500 -2.4 -8.3 0.7 2.4
600 -3.3 -11.3 0.9 3.2
800 -5.3 -18.3 1.4 4.8
900 -6.5 -22.4 1.6 5.6
1000 -7.9 -27 1.9 6.6

My 243 shoots a 115gr bullet that's 2.0 mils flatter elevation and 0.4mils less wind at 1000yds than a 300 win mag that shoots a 190gr bullet.
I use 43.5gr of powder and the 300 will use around 70gr of powder.
That's a huge difference in reloading cost, recoil and muzzle blast and the 300 does not perform nearly as well to boot...

DJDace
05-06-2010, 12:07 PM
New precision rifle shooters are better served with a 308 because they often don't reload.
In the beginning, the best thing you can do is shoot a LOT and that means wearing out barrels.
6.5's last anywhere from 1/2 to 1/3 as long as a 308 barrel.

Shooting a 308 a lot will turn them into reloaders.
Then they are ready for a 6.5 or 6mm.

Even though I reload already I still went the .308 route. It just made sense after talking with the veteran precision/tac guys to start with something entry level and cost effective that I could shoot until the barrel was burnt out. By doing so, my time spent learning is done so on a budget that is more than manageable. If I stick with it, get better at it and enjoy it then I can get better reloading gear and maybe buy a nicer rifle down the line (or at the very least have my baseline rifle tweaked, tuned and upgraded). That's the nice part about the Remington 700 action - so much after market support that you can start with an entry level rig and beef it up as you go.

I was pretty much in the exact opposite position as Linkpimp - wanted to get into long range shooting but had almost NO money. I had to hunt down a good deal on a 700 P online and got a Bushnell 3200 Elite at a discount off the Hide. I'll DROS the rifle today and the accessories are on order. I'll drag my arse out to the zeroing/beginners group for the SCPRC next time it comes around. I'm happy I went with an entry level rig to start with, we'll see how it goes from here.

But frankly, if I have the kind of money Linkpimp had, I would have bought something high end and awesome too cause, well, AWESOME RIFLE! Who doesn't want to spend gobs of money on expensive toys that blow holes in stuff?

bridgeport
05-06-2010, 9:26 PM
Gosh, the way some folks talk about burning out a barrel, you might think that was a bad thing. If you are shooting enough to burn'em , you are doing just fine.

Connor P Price
05-06-2010, 10:01 PM
Awesome rifle. You know its going to be a great shooter so there's no excuses. Come out and shoot it till your shoulder hurts from recoil and your cheeks hurt from smiling. Precision rifle shooting is the worst disease for your wallet you could imagine, but the most fun you'll ever have at the same time.

ar15barrels
05-07-2010, 12:23 AM
Gosh, the way some folks talk about burning out a barrel, you might think that was a bad thing. If you are shooting enough to burn'em , you are doing just fine.

hehe, I built my 243 in november.
I have 1332 rounds through it.
I expect to fire another 300 in the next month or so and then set the barrel back about 2" this summer.

bridgeport
05-07-2010, 4:30 AM
hehe, I built my 243 in november.
I have 1332 rounds through it.
I expect to fire another 300 in the next month or so and then set the barrel back about 2" this summer.

Nice ! Those threads sure do come in handy. When my 7 SAUM gives up the ghost, I ought to spin on a 6.5 tube and neck some SAUM brass down.
Or, maybe go to 6mm, but that seems a bit too far. Imagine that though... 6mm SAUM, accuracy for 200 rounds. I wonder if I could burn my necks off?
Whatever, it would be fun trying. Seriously though, it works so well in 7mm, it would be a fools errand changing it, and 180 VLD's rock.

bomb_on_bus
05-07-2010, 8:24 AM
Any good rifle builder can get a gun to shoot that well when you put it on bags and actually develop a load for it.

Here's a group I shot real quick on saturday to check zero before a match:

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/243target2.jpg

It's only 3 rounds, but the purpose was not to shoot a group.
My purpose was to check zero.

Some things to know about how the group was shot and about the gun:
It's only a trued Remington 700 action with a broughton barrel that I chambered and fitted, not even a custom action.
Harris Bipod and a triad bag in prone on concrete, no benchrest here.
No load development, I just picked a charge and went with it.
I was in a hurry and not really concentrating on shooting a tight group.
If I had been concentrating, I would have fired more rounds but I don't really want to wear this barrel out any faster than I already am (1300 rounds since mid november).

Thats a pretty decent group!

the thing that I like about the tac ops rifles is that they are amazingly accurate shooting 168gr. SMK FGMM rounds which is a pretty decent boxed round. I have been following Mikes out fit for years and he has top of the line machining that allows for tolerences not seen in other shops which allows for a laser rifle.

I would have went with tac ops in the beginning if it werent for the bag log but now the gun craze has died down a bit I will be sending him some hard earned cash before too long. I dont know if hes still taking in remmy 700's to do tune ups on em but when he did they were just about as accurate as any other gun he made in house. I know that the average gun comes out the door of his shop with a .25moa gurantee and he tosses in the target with the keyhole at 100 yards to seal the deal. Now I wont say the gun will shoot that well with anyone, but if you know how to shoot, his guns will take you to the peak of the 30 cal cartridge.

Also pretty sure he shoots all his guns from prone with bipod on a shooting mat tossed atop a dirt hill to score his shots (piru) if memory serves me correct. I havent heard of him shooting those guns bench rest to score his guns accuracy.

jeffersonv
05-07-2010, 8:03 PM
That rifle (DTA) or an AI were the first that came to my mind with a high dollar budget and if it was about the arrow that would be my choice.
And here's my big BUT!
It's not about the arrow, it's about the indian. Half MOA rifles are common and it takes a long time to get good enough to outshoot one if that were possible.
I don't believe it is in the field or even at the range shooting from different positions.
That long time consumes gas, powder, primers, brass, bullets, press, scale, dies, accessories, supplies, maybe a budget trainer rifle (and scope), dies, brass power, primers, bullets for the trainer, etc. etc.
I thought I was pretty conservative with my spending but I was just looking at my internet receipts tonight and, well, let's just say I won't be sharing this info with my wife. (Midway loves me!)
Anyways, I hope you enjoy your rifle and get lots of practice with it to get the most you can out of it.
You don't want to suck with something like that!
That is without a doubt one freaking bad *** rifle. Congrats.

PistolPete75
05-07-2010, 8:58 PM
Are you shietting me, 7k for one build? You can do plenty with that. If you don't mind spending it all and you want to to save time and the hassle, then get a Surgeon Scapel or a Terry Cross Sentinel Build and top it off with a high end scope like a USO or S&B. I have enough precision rifles to keep me satisfied, but if I wanted to buy a "high end" budget build I would get a Terry Cross Sentinel build that had a 591 Surgeon action chambered in .260rem or .243win and top it off with a USO SN3 with a Gap recticle (still my favorite scope). That'll be 7k well spent.

Nevermind, you already bought your rifle. Nice rifle, but your way over budget. 10k is too much to spend on a 300winmag and a .308win combo. You could have got two custom builds in a 7wsm and a .260rem topped off with two high end scopes. You must have money to burn. Go boy, spend that dough like there's no tomorrow.

usmcchet9296
05-07-2010, 9:00 PM
That is to say I have $7,000.00 budgeted for my next project, a long range tack driver!..

I’ve really wanted a *****en precision rifle forever! And luckily enough I’m now in the position to get one

I figure I’ll need to spend around $2 - 3,000 on the scope & rings and $4 - 5,000 on the rifle. So I’m limited but should have enough funds for a great rifle and scope..


Choosing the proper glass..
I know this is extremely important here! So I don't want to screw it up!!! I’m really looking hard at these 4 different scope / glass manufactures..

Any thoughts team??

• Nightforce
o 3.5-15x50
o 30mm tube
o $2,300.00
o http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/SCOPES_OVERVIEW/5_5-22x50___5_5-22x56/5_5-22x50___5_5-22x56.html

• Schmidt & Bender
o 5-25x56
o 34mm tube
o $3,200.00
o http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/464396-REG/Schmidt_Bender_944LPP3_3_12x50_Police_Marksman_LP. html

• Zeiss Hensoldt
o 3x12x56
o 34mm tube
o $3,100.00
o http://www.sportoptics.com/zeiss-hensoldt-rifle-scopes.aspx

• Swarovski
o 5.5-22x50
o 30mm tube
o $3.100.00
o http://www.swarovskioptik.us/en_us/products/rifle-scope_z6-z6i_5-30x50-p


Any other suggestions from the team on a scope that will reach out and give me great clarity? that is for around 2-3k would be killer!.. It’s my understanding that I want clarity over magnification right??

I don’t know you from Adam so don’t take this wrong. I have only shot at 1000 yards once back when I was in the Marines. I was lucky and tagged along with our Battalions STA (Sighting and Target Acquisition) platoon when they were practicing. I spent a few hours with them and popped off a few 100 rounds at ranges from 500 to 1000 yards and from what I was told I shot pretty damned good for my first time and untrained at those distances. Now I was a pretty good shot in the Corps having made Expert 3 times with an average score of 238 in the 4 years I was in so while I’m not an expert at long distance shooting I do know a thing or 2 about shooting. Fast forward to now I have many scoped rifles and Im re-learning distance shooting. I have a Remington 700 sps in .223 with a Burris 4-16x50 XTR scope on it that shoots sub MOA. No its not a Cadillac rifle like those posted here but neither did I bust the bank buying it. Now if I were to suggest a rifle for you and assuming from your post you’re not a trained distance shooter and somewhat new to it I would get a stock Remington 700 in .308, a nice midrange scope, good base and rings .... see unless your close to some 1000 yard plus range how often are you going to shoot it? Where are you going to shoot it and are your really that good of a shot that you need a 7000 dollar rifle? Carlos Hathcock and Marine Sniper in Vietnam shot mostly with a Modified Remington and Winchester rifle. You could build a copy of a M40 or M40A1 for anywhere between 2500 and 4000 dollars with a good scope and still have mostly left over to buy some sweet reloading gear (once you factor out the rifle and the shooter the round is the last factor in a accurate shot). I usually shoot my .22s right now because money is tight and I get a perverse pleasure out of out-shooting guys with multi-thousand dollar rifles next to me with my 600.00 dollar SavageTR/Millet rifle at the range. I don’t know I guess if I had that kinda money id do the same thing but it would probably be after I proved to myself I could do it with a less expensive rifle first.

4 Brigada
05-08-2010, 9:19 AM
well you know that at least half of your cost is going into optics, Im partial to Accuracy International rifles, an also the Alpine Unique TPG. Thats just based on the design that incorporates both modularity and multicalibers. The other favorites are already well describe in the thread. Ohh yeah I forgot about a grand of ammo just to get to know it once you get it.