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valkylrie
04-24-2010, 3:48 PM
Please forgive me. I'm looking for how and where I can do this I. California's. Can I carry openly my pistol on one side and loaded mags on the other? If I am on The freeway in my car doing this is that legal?
I never considered this before. But I am now.

Soldier415
04-24-2010, 3:53 PM
I wouldn't. I would wait for McDonald to be decided and go concealed instead. :)

xr650r
04-24-2010, 4:08 PM
Don't do it in the car!

Driving with a handgun in our great state (of gun law confusion) must be w the handgun unloaded and in a locked container. the glovebox is not a consideration, either.

CitaDeL
04-24-2010, 4:22 PM
Don't do it in the car!

Driving with a handgun in our great state (of gun law confusion) must be w the handgun unloaded and in a locked container. the glovebox is not a consideration, either.

FUD flag on the play-

There is no requirement to transport your firearm in a locked case. Transporting in a locked case is an exemption from violation of 12025 and 626.9... Please see 12025 (f) for the other exemption that does not require a locked case for transport in a vehicle.

valkylrie, if you are interested in more information on open carry in California you should definately read up on what the law says, rather than rely on the sometimes inaccurate information dispensed by internet strangers.

You can read up on the topic at

http://californiaopencarry.org
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/

big red
04-24-2010, 4:24 PM
In almost any other state you could do it but here all it will get you is your wife or good buddy bailing you out of jail after they have hocked the house and any kids you might have or ever consider having. In a car you are totally defenseless as a honest citizen in this state unless you carry a bag of tomatoes with you. and CitiDel is right. Read the actual law and not the Cliff notes.

CitaDeL
04-24-2010, 4:26 PM
In almost any other state you could do it but here all it will get you is your wife or good buddy bailing you out of jail after they have hocked the house and any kids you might have or ever consider having. In a car you are totally defenseless as a honest citizen in this state unless you carry a bag of tomatoes with you.

Care to share a citation of law or an anecdote that would support your claim?

Librarian
04-24-2010, 4:36 PM
FUD flag on the play-

There is no requirement to transport your firearm in a locked case. Transporting in a locked case is an exemption from violation of 12025 and 626.9... Please see 12025 (f) for the other exemption that does not require a locked case for transport in a vehicle.

valkylrie, if you are interested in more information on open carry in California you should definately read up on what the law says, rather than rely on the sometimes inaccurate information dispensed by internet strangers.

You can read up on the topic at

http://californiaopencarry.org
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/

^^^ this.

UOC has a bit of political baggage here - which leads to interesting, valuable and sometimes contentious discussions.

You'll get a simpler answer to your exact question at the recommended sites.

valkylrie
04-24-2010, 4:43 PM
Well the fact is I'm driving now which is why I asked the forum. I will read those sites when I have more than a Droid to do so.

Thanks for the links....

big red
04-24-2010, 4:51 PM
Just a few stories I can't confirm and a confirmation by a Sacramento Sheriff's deputy I talked to at a coffee shop who said a pistol/revolver in the passenger compartment without being in a locked container and either ammo or a magazine within reach was enough for them to impound the car and cart you off to jail on a felony. Since I do not do it (ride motorcycles mostly and rarely drive) I just let it go rather than get into an agrument with them. But I would rather have someone error on the side that keeps them out of jail than find out someone went to jail on my advice.

yelohamr
04-24-2010, 4:55 PM
What CitaDel and Librarian said.

My guess is you lost a bet and as a result you had to post that question here.
If you want to see how other gunowners feel about those of us that UOC, stick around, it gets interesting. At first the comments pissed me off, but now I just laugh at them.

The answers can be found at:
http://californiaopencarry.org
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/

Librarian
04-24-2010, 4:57 PM
Just a few stories I can't confirm and a confirmation by a Sacramento Sheriff's deputy I talked to at a coffee shop who said a pistol/revolver in the passenger compartment without being in a locked container and either ammo or a magazine within reach was enough for them to impound the car and cart you off to jail on a felony. Since I do not do it (ride motorcycles mostly and rarely drive) I just let it go rather than get into an agrument with them. But I would rather have someone error on the side that keeps them out of jail than find out someone went to jail on my advice.

Pity how that Deputy seems to be in need of some re-training. There's nothing at all in the Penal Code to justify what you report the Deputy said.

But I've heard the advice never to argue the law by the side of the road, and that seems like a good idea to me.

yelohamr
04-24-2010, 5:01 PM
Just a few stories I can't confirm and a confirmation by a Sacramento Sheriff's deputy I talked to at a coffee shop who said a pistol/revolver in the passenger compartment without being in a locked container and either ammo or a magazine within reach was enough for them to impound the car and cart you off to jail on a felony. Since I do not do it (ride motorcycles mostly and rarely drive) I just let it go rather than get into an agrument with them. But I would rather have someone error on the side that keeps them out of jail than find out someone went to jail on my advice.

This can happen IF within 1000 feet of a school zone.

Librarian
04-24-2010, 5:07 PM
This can happen IF within 1000 feet of a school zone.

Doesn't have anything to do with ammo, though, and for most of us 'regular folk' it's a wobbler to have an unlocked handgun in a school zone. But it CAN be a felony (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Penalties).

ETA -- that would be 'of a school' rather than 'of a school zone', I think.

GuyW
04-24-2010, 6:45 PM
Yet another of the innumerable anecdotes that prove that law-abiding CA gun owners can be arrested, prosecuted, etc for LEGAL activities. Until this is ABSOLUTELY impossible in this state, LE is NOT your friend.

Just a few stories I can't confirm and a confirmation by a Sacramento Sheriff's deputy I talked to at a coffee shop who said a pistol/revolver in the passenger compartment without being in a locked container and either ammo or a magazine within reach was enough for them to impound the car and cart you off to jail on a felony. Since I do not do it (ride motorcycles mostly and rarely drive) I just let it go rather than get into an agrument with them. But I would rather have someone error on the side that keeps them out of jail than find out someone went to jail on my advice.

CitaDeL
04-24-2010, 7:01 PM
Yet another of the innumerable anecdotes that prove that law-abiding CA gun owners can be arrested, prosecuted, etc for LEGAL activities. Until this is ABSOLUTELY impossible in this state, LE is NOT your friend.


Just a few stories I can't confirm and a confirmation by a Sacramento Sheriff's deputy I talked to at a coffee shop who said a pistol/revolver in the passenger compartment without being in a locked container and either ammo or a magazine within reach was enough for them to impound the car and cart you off to jail on a felony. Since I do not do it (ride motorcycles mostly and rarely drive) I just let it go rather than get into an agrument with them. But I would rather have someone error on the side that keeps them out of jail than find out someone went to jail on my advice.

Big red's anecdote doesnt prove anything other than the fact that even law enforcement does not fully grasp the content of the laws they are expected to enforce.... It is jumping to conslusions that just because someone talked to a deputy in a coffee shop at some undefined moment in time, that lawful activities will result in PROSECUTION and JAIL TIME.

Can we stop spreading this FUD?

Pig Rifle
04-24-2010, 7:11 PM
I wish it were more common to see LEOs "erring on the side of liberty" :patriot:

GuyW
04-24-2010, 7:13 PM
Can we stop spreading this FUD?

Its not FUD, so No, I won't stop posting my thoughts...
.

diginit
04-24-2010, 8:08 PM
Yet another of the innumerable anecdotes that prove that law-abiding CA gun owners can be arrested, prosecuted, etc for LEGAL activities. Until this is ABSOLUTELY impossible in this state, LE is NOT your friend.

What is FUD about this statement? It IS a FACT!

I'll tell you something else that is not FUD. Unless we ALL contact our State Assembly and Senate Representatives and urge them to OPPOSE AB 1934 before it reaches the floor for a vote, We will not be able to UOC at all. It will be illegal.
Also, oppose AB 1810 as well. Registration of long guns will just waste more tax dollars and serve NO purpose.
On April 13th, this bill was presented to the Public Safety Committee and unfortunately passed. The votes were as follows:

- Chair Assemblyman Tom Ammiano – AYE
- Vice-Chair Assemblyman Curt Hagman – NO
- Assemblyman Jim Beall, Jr. – NOT VOTING
- Assemblyman Danny Gilmore – NO
- Assemblyman Jerry Hill – AYE
- Assemblyman Anthony Portantino – AYE
- Assemblymember Nancy Skinner – AYE

NRA... WE NEED YOU!

joefrank64k
04-24-2010, 8:34 PM
Yet another of the innumerable anecdotes that prove that law-abiding CA gun owners can be arrested, prosecuted, etc for LEGAL activities. Until this is ABSOLUTELY impossible in this state, LE is NOT your friend.

Big red's anecdote doesnt prove anything other than the fact that even law enforcement does not fully grasp the content of the laws they are expected to enforce.... It is jumping to conslusions that just because someone talked to a deputy in a coffee shop at some undefined moment in time, that lawful activities will result in PROSECUTION and JAIL TIME.

Can we stop spreading this FUD?

+1...

mrlightning559
04-24-2010, 9:03 PM
How can i transport a handgun while riding a motorcycle?

Librarian
04-24-2010, 9:07 PM
How can i transport a handgun while riding a motorcycle?

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

Don't think you need a trunk.

N6ATF
04-24-2010, 9:54 PM
You can't do this, unless you want all guns in CA to be banned.

:rolleyes:

xr650r
05-03-2010, 5:26 PM
FUD flag on the play-

There is no requirement to transport your firearm in a locked case. Transporting in a locked case is an exemption from violation of 12025 and 626.9... Please see 12025 (f) for the other exemption that does not require a locked case for transport in a vehicle.

valkylrie, if you are interested in more information on open carry in California you should definately read up on what the law says, rather than rely on the sometimes inaccurate information dispensed by internet strangers.

You can read up on the topic at

http://californiaopencarry.org
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php <--more FUD? :o The man said "in his car", so I figured he'd be driving around with the handgun. LUCC or UOC are different subjects, but maybe I'm off base. I always put them in a locked container in the locked truck, away from prying eyes and fingers.

GrizzlyGuy
05-03-2010, 6:00 PM
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php <--more FUD? :o The man said "in his car", so I figured he'd be driving around with the handgun. LUCC or UOC are different subjects, but maybe I'm off base. I always put them in a locked container in the locked truck, away from prying eyes and fingers.

That's not FUD, it is a summary of what 12026.1 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html) says and is probably the most common method for legally transporting a handgun in CA. It is also probably the 'least-drama-causing' method.

However, it isn't the only legal method. Among other legal methods:

1) Toss it on your seat in plain view (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting#OPEN_handgun_transport) (unloaded) or keep it in your belt holster. This is legal as long as you don't drive through a school zone.

2) Hide it under your jacket, unloaded, and not in a locked case. That is legal if your destination/purpose meets one of the exemptions in 12027 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html) (going hunting/fishing being a commonly used one) and you don't drive through any school zones.

Those last two are fairly common methods in rural areas where school zones are few and far between, and the people and LEOs don't have cows and hyperventilate every time they see a gun. :43:

xr650r
05-05-2010, 10:14 PM
Sweet baby Jesu...!

Unloaded under your coat while driving? Yikez! Sounds like a way to piss off a cop. Just saying...

Whoa Nellie
05-05-2010, 11:34 PM
The issue of unloaded open carry has two contradicting codes in my opinion. Here they are.

This code makes it appear to be legal if in a holster :

12025 CA
a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:
(1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,
or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.
(2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had
reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
(3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street
gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the
Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11
(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.
(4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm,
as defined in this section, or the person is within a class of
persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to
Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony.
(5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a
person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to
(6), inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one
year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of
paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) if the peace officer has probable
cause to believe that the person is not listed with the Department of
Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section
11106 as the registered owner of the pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, and one or more
of the conditions in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision
(b) is met.
(d) (1) Every person convicted under this section who previously
has been convicted of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section
12001.6 shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for at
least three months and not exceeding six months, or, if granted
probation, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is
suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be
imprisoned in a county jail for at least three months.
(2) Every person convicted under this section who has previously
been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this
chapter, if probation is granted, or if the execution or imposition
of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or
she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.
(e) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence as
specified in subdivision (d), except in unusual cases where the
interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or
suspending the imposition or execution of sentence without the
minimum imprisonment required in subdivision (d) or by granting
probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence with
conditions other than those set forth in subdivision (d), in which
case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the
minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice
would best be served by that disposition.
(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section.
(g) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the
firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the
firearm either lawfully owns the firearm or has the permission of the
lawful owner or a person who otherwise has apparent authority to
possess or have custody of the firearm. A person who takes a firearm
without the permission of the lawful owner or without the permission
of a person who has lawful custody of the firearm does not have
lawful possession of the firearm.
(h) (1) The district attorney of each county shall submit annually
a report on or before June 30, to the Attorney General consisting of
profiles by race, age, gender, and ethnicity of any person charged
with a felony or a misdemeanor under this section and any other
offense charged in the same complaint, indictment, or information.
(2) The Attorney General shall submit annually, a report on or
before December 31, to the Legislature compiling all of the reports
submitted pursuant to paragraph (1).
(3) This subdivision shall remain operative until January 1, 2005,
and as of that date shall be repealed.


However, this section in my opinion clearly states its prohibited....

12026.1
(a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

CitaDeL
05-06-2010, 7:57 AM
However, this section in my opinion clearly states its prohibited....

12026.1
(a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

Clearly states its prohibited? Please quote from the above cited penal code, both the violation and the punitive sections that would make transporting a hangun outside of a locked case a crime.

I've read it over and over and can't find what some see as a violation. 12026.1 is another exemption for 12025- a secure locked case is not a requirement for transportation.

Librarian
05-06-2010, 8:19 AM
The issue of unloaded open carry has two contradicting codes in my opinion. Here they are.

This code makes it appear to be legal if in a holster :

12025 CA
a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

[snip]

However, this section in my opinion clearly states its prohibited....

12026.1
(a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

It's easier to see if you keep the relative sections closer together.

12025 says you cannot carry concealed (without CCW).

12026.1 says "yes, but if you do it like this, 12025 will not apply".

Putting a concealable firearm into a completely enclosing locked case necessarily conceals the gun, but 12026.1 says that's an exception to 12025.

loather
05-06-2010, 8:39 AM
While technically, yes, there is no strict requirement to carry a pistol in a locked case within a vehicle in California, consider the two following things:

* Many law enforcement officers don't know the law and you'll likely be hassled anyways -- do you want to take that risk?
* Are you confident enough with the location of *every* K-12 school in your driving area that at all times along the route, you'll be at least 1000 feet away from the boundary of any such school at all times?

If your answer is no to either of the above questions then get a lockable case and while in the car transport it that way. Yes, there are ways to transport it unlocked easily. Yes, it's still a bad idea.

Advice: Avoid UOC at this time. It's already gained a ton of negative publicity in the last couple of months, and thanks to that negative publicity there is now a bill being heard that will outlaw its practice.