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View Full Version : Jerry Brown supports the rights to bear arms...


sweetcaddy
04-23-2010, 8:57 PM
From Jerry Brown <jerry@jerrybrown.org>
reply-to jerry@jerrybrown.org
to "*************" <**************>
date Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:37 PM
subject Re: **************?

hide details Apr 19 (4 days ago)

Jerry supports the right for citizens to bear arms.

ChrisTKHarris
04-23-2010, 8:58 PM
Good, I'll vote for him just for 2A.

Shotgun Man
04-23-2010, 9:01 PM
From Jerry Brown <jerry@jerrybrown.org>
reply-to jerry@jerrybrown.org
to "*************" <**************>
date Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:37 PM
subject Re: **************?

hide details Apr 19 (4 days ago)

Jerry supports the right for citizens to bear arms.

Further explanation please.

The reply is very basic with no detail.

Why is the email edited with hidden details?

ChrisTKHarris
04-23-2010, 9:02 PM
Further explanation please.

The reply is very basic with no detail.

Why is the email edited with hidden details?

Yeah I thought the same thing, but neglected to ask.

Roadrunner
04-23-2010, 9:32 PM
I appreciate that Jerry Brown joined 34 California District Attorneys in writing a friend of the court brief supporting incorporation of the second amendment to the states. However, how far does he think that extends? In other words, are we limited, as the antigunners would have us believe, to the interior of our homes? Or, does he think that the second amendment extends beyond our front doors? That's the real question.

To date, I've heard a lot of politicians claim support for the second amendment, but they put a twist here, and a caveat there, and completely distort the original intent. We know what the framers of the Constitution meant, but even the Supreme court chose to limit their interpretation to the most minimum meaning, which still gives antigun politicians a wide latitude to continue to create more restrictive gun laws.

I'm all for backing a politician who is willing to limit government control over me, but I really think that we can't take the word of any politician without comparing their past track record to what they're putting out for public consumption. The old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me", comes to mind.

sweetcaddy
04-25-2010, 9:38 PM
I edited it so you cant see my personal email address. :) or my real name in the subject

ChrisTKHarris
04-25-2010, 9:43 PM
I edited it so you cant see my personal email address. :) or my real name in the subject

We're not referring to that info, we're referring to the lack of substance of the BODY of the email. Where's the "Dear Mr..... thank you for your support....blah blah blah stuff". Without the email response in its entirety or at least the portion referring to 2A your email lacks key points, arguments and any sign of authenticity that it was in fact from Jerry Brown or from the office of Jerry Brown.

It's as if you inserted some random stuff in the body and attached a header with semi-valid email info. For all we know it could have said "I like turtles". LOL

Window_Seat
04-25-2010, 10:32 PM
One thing that impressed me about JB is that he filed an Amicus curiae in support of Incorporation with SCOTUS. That at least is something that shows me as putting his money where his mouth is on the issue, and so far it's enough for me to vote him in, because Whitman tells the Pro's that she will "support" gun rights, and then tell the anti's that she will not allow gun rights.

Erik.

bwiese
04-27-2010, 12:33 AM
One thing that impressed me about JB is that he filed an Amicus curiae in support of Incorporation with SCOTUS. That at least is something that shows me as putting his money where his mouth is on the issue, and so far it's enough for me to vote him in, because Whitman tells the Pro's that she will "support" gun rights, and then tell the anti's that she will not allow gun rights.

Yup.

The importance of that amicus brief, and his killing of an antigun Heller brief, issued from AG of largest state/world's 7th largest economy (plus or minus one) has tremendous importance and, honestly, would even have been worth a tactical tradeoff for some eventual fixable crap law (ban on 1911s or, say, flashing LEDs on gun safeties) for its strategic end-result value.

And to further back that sentiment, I've just confirmed that Dept AG Alison Merrilees is transferring out of AG office, which is rather off-schedule (if on her own volition she'd likely hang out til AG end of term).

ScottB
04-27-2010, 6:32 AM
Yup.

The importance of that amicus brief, and his killing of an antigun Heller brief, issued from AG of largest state/world's 7th largest economy (plus or minus one) has tremendous importance and, honestly, would even have been worth a tactical tradeoff for some eventual fixable crap law (ban on 1911s or, say, flashing LEDs on gun safeties) for its strategic end-result value.

And to further back that sentiment, I've just confirmed that Dept AG Alison Merrilees is transferring out of AG office, which is rather off-schedule (if on her own volition she'd likely hang out til AG end of term).

Allison Merrilees resigned to work for anti-gun state senator Ellen Corbett. Also, Wil Cid (headed DOJ Fireams bureau) retired. It will be interesting to see who (or if) Brown replaces them with.

Forestgnome
04-27-2010, 6:35 AM
All the politicians support your 2A rights, just not in the form the 2A intended. You know, the Canadian model. You can own a handgun but it needs to be locked up at the pistol club. What do you need a gun for anyway?

bwiese
04-27-2010, 8:40 AM
Allison Merrilees resigned to work for anti-gun state senator Ellen Corbett.

Maybe she'll be busy keeping lead paint off toys or working on insurance/annuity matters - she does have a background in that.

Interesting about the San Leandro area connection - IIRC, Johann Klehs, who started AB2728 in its final form, is from that area too.

Also, Wil Cid (headed DOJ Fireams bureau) retired. It will be interesting to see who (or if) Brown replaces them with.

I think he's still 'around the office' for a last little bit.

rhbanjo
04-27-2010, 8:50 AM
It's VERY hard for me to believe Jerry Brown has had some sort of euphony and now supports the 2A! He played ball with the Appointed Sherriff of OC to allow termination of almost half of CCW's in the OC I didn't trust him the last time he was Gov. and I don't trust him now!

demnogis
04-27-2010, 9:20 AM
Jerry Brown also supports:

- CARB: California Air Resources Board. Killing industry with its gross regulations and fines.
- Cap & Trade. See: CARB.
- Public Unions. You know those extortionate city/county taxes? Those are paying public union wages, pensions and benefits policies before the city gets a dime to spend on what the people need.

You get the first 3 for free.

Havoc70
04-27-2010, 9:36 AM
I just sent his campaign this message:

I would like to know Jerry Brown's stance on the second amendment, and I would like a little more detail than "He supports it." Specifically, does he support adopting a CCW system similar to Florida, where the key differences are:

1) Florida has legislative pre-emption on counties and cities enacting rules that go against the state law
2) Florida is "shall issue" for CCW permits
3) Florida recognizes a persons right to defend life with deadly force and recognizes "self defense" as not only good cause, but a right of all law abiding citizens

I appreciate this may take some time to answer, but I would like as complete an answer as possible. This issue is very important to me, and I'm not going to lie, it is really my primary concern in the gubernatorial election.

Thank you,

Scott Schappell


Even if I will be living in Louisiana by the time of the election (hopefully), I still want a straight answer because it is important for voters to know where he really stands.

Havoc70
04-27-2010, 9:58 AM
And it didn't take long to get this answer back:


From: Jerry Brown 2010 <info@jerrybrown.org>
Subject: Re: Jerry's Stance on the 2nd Amendment
Date: April 27, 2010 10:53:23 PDT
To: Scott Schappell <archon@silvertree.org>
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Hello Scott,

Thank you for your interest in the campaign. Jerry is currently hard at work putting together a comprehensive set of policies which will soon be available on the website www.jerrybrown.org.

Regards,

Ned

Click links below to support Jerry Brown:

www.jerrybrown.org/action/contribute


On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Scott Schappell <archon@silvertree.org> wrote:
I would like to know Jerry Brown's stance on the second amendment, and I would like a little more detail than "He supports it." Specifically, does he support adopting a CCW system similar to Florida, where the key differences are:

1) Florida has legislative pre-emption on counties and cities enacting rules that go against the state law
2) Florida is "shall issue" for CCW permits
3) Florida recognizes a persons right to defend life with deadly force and recognizes "self defense" as not only good cause, but a right of all law abiding citizens

I appreciate this may take some time to answer, but I would like as complete an answer as possible. This issue is very important to me, and I'm not going to lie, it is really my primary concern in the gubernatorial election.

Thank you,

Scott Schappell

Havoc70
04-27-2010, 10:10 AM
And my polite response:


Thank you, Ned. I appreciate that my questions don't fit a cookie cutter response. I feel it's important to remind you that since Florida has implemented its law the following changes have occurred:

Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:

Florida homicide rate
-36%
US homicide rate
-0.4%

Florida firearm homicide rate
-37%
US firearm homicide rate
+15%

FL handgun homicide rate
-41%
US handgun homicide rate
+24%

Source: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#Right-To-Carry%20Laws

With the shrinking budgets plaguing enforcement agencies, sheriffs and city police departments are already being stretched to the breaking point. I feel it is important, as a law abiding citizen of this state, to be able to defend my life and my family's life beyond the home. This is not paranoia, it is simply a belief that should a criminal seek to cause me grave bodily injury, I have a means to defend my life. Gun control is a very decisive issue in California, but the simple fact is gun control does not work. Look at Chicago. They have onerous gun policies, and the gun violence there has escalated to the point of the Illinois State Senate asking for the National Guard.

Look at the violence that happens in "Gun Free Zones", such as schools. Why do these horrible and tragic events happen there? One key reason is that they KNOW no one has the means to stop them.

It is my hope that Jerry Brown realizes this and appreciates the key second clause of the 2nd Amendment: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I look forward to seeing more of Mr. Brown's policies, and I hope he has the courage to be completely honest about this and other issues facing the State of California.

Sincerely,

Scott Schappell


*sigh* I need to proof read better, decisive should have been divisive.

Dr. Peter Venkman
04-27-2010, 12:22 PM
http://www.shortsshortsshorts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/1_the_right_to_bear_arms.jpg

Hogxtz
04-27-2010, 12:38 PM
Great reponse to his reply. Oh man, I can't wait to see his position. You really pinned him down. I'll be checking his site regularly.

artherd
04-27-2010, 12:49 PM
I've met Brown at some very private and candid conversations with him regarding 2A and Calguns specifically. He is very pro RKBA.

Brown is the most pro 2A AG we have had in 50 years. He fully supported the Heller case.

It is our job to keep him electable. Realize that firearms are a hot-button issue with his Democratic base, and that he will be better able to answer your questions publicly after the election.

tacticalcity
04-27-2010, 1:06 PM
It seems a little hard to believe considering how far to the left he leans on other issues. Life is not a vacuum however so I can see him have a conservative view here or there. Especially since people tend to become more conservative as they age. My concern would be that if he is elected, and a 2A issue takes center stage, he would likely cave into pressure from his base. His base is very anti-gun, and his taking a pro-gun stance on something receiving national attention would likely be a career ender for him. Brown is a career politician, and an extremely skilled one at that. His career comes first. He has stayed relevant by not rocking the boat and by not alienating any one group. I find that extremely impressive considering how divisive California politics are, but I am not sure it is something I want in my governor. Though I myself have become something of a pragmatist, I want a governor who is not afraid to rock the boat, and will stand on principle. Definitely not convinced that is Brown. I just don't see him putting pro-gun beliefs ahead of getting elected, or reelected whatever the case maybe. If it comes down to him and somebody clearly anti-gun, the choice is clear. But if it comes down to a choice between Brown and a true conservative, I vote for the conservative every time. The trick will be finding a true conservative. Needless to say, the upcoming election has me very concerned. Usually I can identify the candidate I most identify with right away, and I throw my support behind them. This time around I'm having a much harder time doing that. Brown will likely win the Democratic Party's nomination. The question is which Republican will get the nod. Frankly I was surprised to learn a former CEO of Ebay was a Republican. I've been reluctantly doing business with Ebay for years. I have never seen a company more willing to sacrifice their bottom line in order to push a liberal anti-gun agenda. I have also never seen a company more riddled with bureaucracy. If their were a viable alternative I would use them. How much of a role she did or did not play in establishing Ebay's anti-gun policies or the layers of bureaucracy is unknown. Regardless, her association with Ebay does little to convince me she will be bringing conservative values to the job. I am doing my best to learn about the other candidates, but it has been frustrating to say the least. I definitely feel a little out of place here in California with regards to politics. I'm clearly outnumbered, and outflanked.

IrishPirate
04-27-2010, 1:13 PM
not a big fan of this.....
http://feinstein.senate.gov/images/photo-gallery-mayors-page/mayor-jerry-brown-mayor-gavin-newsom-full.jpg

From what I've seen and heard, Jerry Brown still = California Uber Alles

lnXzilq_NO8

but hey, you never know 'til it happens right? America thought "change" meant something good in 2008.....turns out, change can be a bad thing too.

Mstrty
04-27-2010, 1:31 PM
I've met Brown at some very private and candid conversations with him regarding 2A and Calguns specifically. He is very pro RKBA.

Brown is the most pro 2A AG we have had in 50 years. He fully supported the Heller case.

It is our job to keep him electable. Realize that firearms are a hot-button issue with his Democratic base, and that he will be better able to answer your questions publicly after the election.

Pinch your nose and vote for him I promise this time will be different:rolleyes:

bwiese
04-27-2010, 2:11 PM
Pinch your nose and vote for him I promise this time will be different:rolleyes:

Some of us have better knowledge than you do.

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 2:49 PM
I keep trying to find someone who will convincingly tell me of any aspect in which Whitman would effectively govern more conservatively than would Brown.

In every aspect in which Whitman talks about being more conservative than is Brown I view her as likely to be grossly ineffective.

Toss in the 2A issues and the choice is crystal clear.

FeuerFrei
04-27-2010, 3:34 PM
I was around when JB was gov back in the day.
He was bad then and his latest experience with Oakland was more of the same.
Not good to have a professional politician lead us out of the mess we are in.
Changing the legislature will do more than changing the gov.

Ding126
04-27-2010, 3:47 PM
I was around when JB was gov back in the day.
He was bad then and his latest experience with Oakland was more of the same.
Not good to have a professional politician lead us out of the mess we are in.
Changing the legislature will do more than changing the gov.

you mean like Arnold has?? He is not a professional Politician.....failed logic

Glock22Fan
04-27-2010, 3:48 PM
Not good to have a professional politician lead us out of the mess we are in.


Great, so let's have an amateur. Someone like Arnie perhaps?

Changing the legislature will do more than changing the gov.

Of course it will. And voting for anyone but Brown will help this how?

IGOTDIRT4U
04-27-2010, 4:36 PM
It seems a little hard to believe considering how far to the left he leans on other issues. Life is not a vacuum however so I can see him have a conservative view here or there. Especially since people tend to become more conservative as they age. My concern would be that if he is elected, and a 2A issue takes center stage, he would likely cave into pressure from his base. His base is very anti-gun, and his taking a pro-gun stance on something receiving national attention would likely be a career ender for him. Brown is a career politician, and an extremely skilled one at that. His career comes first. He has stayed relevant by not rocking the boat and by not alienating any one group. I find that extremely impressive considering how divisive California politics are, but I am not sure it is something I want in my governor. Though I myself have become something of a pragmatist, I want a governor who is not afraid to rock the boat, and will stand on principle. Definitely not convinced that is Brown. I just don't see him putting pro-gun beliefs ahead of getting elected, or reelected whatever the case maybe. If it comes down to him and somebody clearly anti-gun, the choice is clear. But if it comes down to a choice between Brown and a true conservative, I vote for the conservative every time. The trick will be finding a true conservative. Needless to say, the upcoming election has me very concerned. Usually I can identify the candidate I most identify with right away, and I throw my support behind them. This time around I'm having a much harder time doing that. Brown will likely win the Democratic Party's nomination.

I would normally agree with the begninning of this parathentical thought set, but for two reasons I can't at this time.

First, most likely JB is a one term candidate. He can burn bridges with his base as he most likely will not need them after his term.

Second, the Gov does not make laws, the legislature does, He has the power to suggest policy and what laws he might be interested in signing, though, but he also has the power of veto, and office appointment. That means everytime some state legislator want s JB to consider something in his/her district, he might have to trade JB something, too.

Combine that with his stint at the CA DOJ, and I think this is his time.

IMHO, I shudder to think of Whitman as Governor, and I am a die hard lifelong Republican (of the CA small "l" bent)

colossians323
04-27-2010, 4:43 PM
Yup.

The importance of that amicus brief, and his killing of an antigun Heller brief, issued from AG of largest state/world's 7th largest economy (plus or minus one) has tremendous importance and, honestly, would even have been worth a tactical tradeoff for some eventual fixable crap law (ban on 1911s or, say, flashing LEDs on gun safeties) for its strategic end-result value.

And to further back that sentiment, I've just confirmed that Dept AG Alison Merrilees is transferring out of AG office, which is rather off-schedule (if on her own volition she'd likely hang out til AG end of term).

Yeah, you guys are right, his support for the 50 caliber ban and his great AG 'gun scare' ads mean nothing. You can tell that he is for the 2A by the way he supports banning 'certain' weapons:rolleyes:

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 5:10 PM
Yeah, you guys are right, his support for the 50 caliber ban and his great AG 'gun scare' ads mean nothing. You can tell that he is for the 2A by the way he supports banning 'certain' weapons:rolleyes:

Jerry Brown ain't perfect - he's just better.

And I'm constantly amazed at how many on this board will happily ban certain weapons they don't like. So Jerry Brown doesn't like .50BMG? Shame on him but I'll take what little I can get. Whitman would almost certainly be worse.

Poizner I don't know about - but I don't consider him sufficiently viable to really research at this time.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 5:23 PM
Jerry Brown ain't perfect - he's just better.

And I'm constantly amazed at how many on this board will happily ban certain weapons they don't like. So Jerry Brown doesn't like .50BMG? Shame on him but I'll take what little I can get. Whitman would almost certainly be worse.

Poizner I don't know about - but I don't consider him sufficiently viable to really research at this time.


Yeah! As long as he will only ban some of our constitutional rights and not all of them we're ok!:)

bwiese
04-27-2010, 5:25 PM
Yeah, you guys are right, his support for the 50 caliber ban ...

You apparently have not (or ignore) the background of that particular situation.

His opponent Chuck Poochigian [i]broight up the 50BMG[i] situation himself, a clear demonstration of low IQ. WTF would he do that? He was also warned by Very Friendly Parties to STFU about that as it'd only turn into a liability.

Winning politicians get there by fielding interceptions thrown to 'em.

Meantime, Alison has taken an early departure.

I swear, some of you guys just can't read between the lines.

The Rattler
04-27-2010, 5:30 PM
There is only one candidate that has stated for the record he supports not only the Constitutional Carry law that Arizona passed but also the immigration bill they were forced to pass. This is suppose to be a government of We the People. Personally I can not relate to Jerry Brown and the 2 Rinos all career buerocraps. I wish you all luck when California turns into the 500th economy and a permanent federal dependent. But I'll be voting for Larry Naritelli for Governor. naritelli2010.com

colossians323
04-27-2010, 5:33 PM
You apparently have not (or ignore) the background of that particular situation.

His opponent Chuck Poochigian [i]broight up the 50BMG[i] situation himself, a clear demonstration of low IQ. WTF would he do that? He was also warned by Very Friendly Parties to STFU about that as it'd only turn into a liability.

Winning politicians get there by fielding interceptions thrown to 'em.

Meantime, Alison has taken an early departure.

I swear, some of you guys just can't read between the lines.

Gee, backround schmackround. If you'll say it publicly? He could win all he wants, thats the problem with politicians, they'll tell you what you want to hear until they get into office and then its a free for all. I am in no way endorsing that hag whitman. hell would have to freeze over for me to vote for her, but on the flip side I am not sure how any 2A loving member could vote in good conscience for our friend Jerry Brown. I noticed that he has conveniently had that video removed, where he touts how he is anti 2nd amendment. How convenient!

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 5:43 PM
Yeah! As long as he will only ban some of our constitutional rights and not all of them we're ok!:)

I'm not saying we're OK. Not at all. And if anyone thinks I'm going to support Jerry Brown, well they've been smoking the funny weed. . .

What I'm saying is that Whitman is worse than Jerry Brown. I'd bet Whitman would have signed AB962 and I'd bet Jerry Brown wouldn't have. Arnie did sign it.

And I'm one who believes the 2A doesn't allow for significant limitation of citizen ownership of weaponry. But there are plenty here who think grenades should be banned, that fully automatic weapons should not be allowed, etc. Point is that there are many of our fellows on this forum dedicated to the 2A who support restrictions just as onerous as the ban on .50 BMG. These are people who still support the 2A they just don't really yet get that our founders understood that a responsible citizenry will be trained and heavily armed.

When I think about what those who wrote the 2A intended I sometimes actually feel a bit guilty about my own attitude! So far as I can tell, they intended for us all to be part of a militia which was armed to the teeth - to the point that we really would not require a standing army. They were not thinking of something like the National Guard, it was a far more local and independent concept. And I don't want fully automatic weaponry or grenades, etc. Doesn't mean I don't support to right of others to responsibly own and employ them. . .

The point remains, however, that Jerry Brown has demonstrated that he believes that there is a RKBA and done something meaningful about it. It is actually possible that without his amicus brief we would not be getting the 2nd Amendment incorporated against the states (we'll never know for sure). Whitman's stated position indicates she supports every single restriction on our RKBA that California has - and coming from a putative conservative that should be an extremely worrisome sign.

I remember when Nixon went to China. It was said that only a conservative could have warmed our relationship with China. It might be that only a "Liberal" can defend the RKBA in California. (But don't get me wrong, I don't think Nixon was a conservative but he was perceived as such and that gave him license to betray Taiwan, South Vietnam, and us.)

Ding126
04-27-2010, 5:48 PM
Yeah, you guys are right, his support for the 50 caliber ban and his great AG 'gun scare' ads mean nothing. You can tell that he is for the 2A by the way he supports banning 'certain' weapons:rolleyes:

What???

When the 50cal was banned..that was by Arnold....JB was still Mayor of Oakland

willm952
04-27-2010, 6:00 PM
Its like 2008 all over again.
Who to choose? One is a little better than then other. Democrat or Republican.
Whitman? Whats her angle? She's outspending Poizner and Brown on ads, etc. So Naturally her points slider is moving up.

She can't be good for us. Poizner what was he thinking. He could have backed the part-time legislature ballot initiative with $2 million and brought his rating much higher than Whitman but no he refused and the initiative went down the toilet along with his ratings. 50 point drop after his failure as predicted on radio.

Brown is the one who was all for unionizing public employees. Now look at us.
500 million in the hole for pensions.

Seriously this election cycle for prk is messed up. Bad, worse, crap.
All these elections come down to is who spends the most. Just look at flowbama.

We need to put serious caps on campaign spending and not just donations from individuals and pacs. Hopefully, we can come together on this and vote as a block this November.

We should as Calguns members back the part-time legislature initiative next year. I think they need either 20,000 or 40,000 signatures to get on the ballot. If ever we needed a special election, this would be it.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:02 PM
What???

When the 50cal was banned..that was by Arnold....JB was still Mayor of Oakland


Find the AG ad/commercial. He touts his belief in banning weapons

Glock22Fan
04-27-2010, 6:07 PM
Yeah, you guys are right, his support for the 50 caliber ban and his great AG 'gun scare' ads mean nothing. You can tell that he is for the 2A by the way he supports banning 'certain' weapons:rolleyes:

Seems to me that some people have been firing too many .50 cal firearms without their ear muffs on.

Ding126
04-27-2010, 6:07 PM
Do you have a link..I've never seen it

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:08 PM
The point remains, however, that Jerry Brown has demonstrated that he believes that there is a RKBA and done something meaningful about it. It is actually possible that without his amicus brief we would not be getting the 2nd Amendment incorporated against the states (we'll never know for sure). Whitman's stated position indicates she supports every single restriction on our RKBA that California has - and coming from a putative conservative that should be an extremely worrisome sign.



Yes, he shows that he is selective on what he wants you to own. As AG, how come he challenges prop 8 but doesn't challenge the drop test, or the AWB?

Oh, thats right, career politician that only wants to say the right thing at the right time to feed at the public trough. Honestly no wonder we have lost so many of our rights and are seeing the govt take over.

If I was an RKBA person I think it would be easy for me to see how the drop test and the cali ban on AW's is unconstitutional, and it would be my duty as CAli AG to challenge these. Either he is with us or against us................................................ hmmmmmmmm more checks against, I guess that puts him in the against column.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:09 PM
Do you have a link..I've never seen it

I have searched the web far and wide, i am confident that someone has saved that video. I will say this, he has done a great job of scrubbing that video off the net.

Pig Rifle
04-27-2010, 6:13 PM
"Jerry Brown supports the rights to bear arms..." The title is a bit misleading, IMO.
Jerry Brown does not support CARRY of any kind.
Jerry Brown DOES however, support the handgun roster.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:14 PM
Seems to me that some people have been firing too many .50 cal firearms without their ear muffs on.


So he is RKBA???? Is that why he has challenged the laws that are unconstitutional, which would be his duty as AG??? Show me where he did his job to support RKBA, as far as his amicus brief woo hoo, lip service, he really took action on that one, didn't he? The proof is in the pudding, he can challenge prop 8, but he is strangely silent on challenging the draconian gun laws, and moving allison is hardly a challenge to any law no matter how many of you kool aid drinkers want to believe this:p

artherd
04-27-2010, 6:15 PM
Read between the lines.

You guys know who I am and where I stand on rights.

I've had conversations with Brown that are very candid.

I am supporting Jerry Brown for Governor of California.


Are you picking up what I'm throwing down? ;)

artherd
04-27-2010, 6:19 PM
his amicus brief woo hoo

Do you have any idea how monumental that brief really is? How persuasive SCOTUS finds a First District AG's Amicus?

That was the single most pro-gun act by any AG in 5 decades or more.

Aleksei Vasiliev
04-27-2010, 6:20 PM
There is only one candidate that has stated for the record he supports not only the Constitutional Carry law that Arizona passed but also the immigration bill they were forced to pass. This is suppose to be a government of We the People. Personally I can not relate to Jerry Brown and the 2 Rinos all career buerocraps. I wish you all luck when California turns into the 500th economy and a permanent federal dependent. But I'll be voting for Larry Naritelli for Governor. naritelli2010.comSomehow I doubt somebody who publicly states global warming is a plan to create a New World Order will manage to become the next governor of California.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:20 PM
Read between the lines.

You guys know who I am and where I stand on rights.

I've had conversations with Brown that are very candid.

I am NOT supporting Jerry Brown for Governor of California.


Are you picking up what I'm throwing down? ;)

Friend, you know who I am and what I do..................Jerry brown can give all the lip service he wants to gain peoples support. What has he done to challenge any of the unconstitutionally written laws in Cali?????

I dare say, he has been a career politician that has always said what he had to so that he can continue feeding at the public trough, meanwhile truly accomplishing nothing except turning Cali into a waste land

Boy howdy, how he had to challenge prop 8..............cuz some how marriage became a right and the 2A is not?

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:23 PM
Somehow I doubt somebody who publicly states global warming is a plan to create a New World Order will manage to become the next governor of California.


And you know that it is not because.............................;)








j/k relax

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 6:24 PM
Yes, he shows that he is selective on what he wants you to own. As AG, how come he challenges prop 8 but doesn't challenge the drop test, or the AWB?

Oh, thats right, career politician that only wants to say the right thing at the right time to feed at the public trough. Honestly no wonder we have lost so many of our rights and are seeing the govt take over.

If I was an RKBA person I think it would be easy for me to see how the drop test and the cali ban on AW's is unconstitutional, and it would be my duty as CAli AG to challenge these. Either he is with us or against us................................................ hmmmmmmmm more checks against, I guess that puts him in the against column.

I've read with great interest some of the lawyerly debates on this forum in which a good case is made that until McDonald is decided in our favor both the handgun roster and the AWB are, in fact, permitted under the California and U.S. Constitutions. It would be a big mistake to take those to court at this time whether or not you are the AG.

In fact, a pretty good argument was made that even after/if McDonald is decided in our favor that the handgun roster, AWB, and a number of other stupid restrictions will persist in California with constitutional blessing. I disagree with that opinion but it was made by a very smart and knowledgeable person.

I'd say that you can't hold this against JB. But then, I doubt that JB will bring suit to take out the referenced restrictions even when/if McDonald is decided in our favor. This is not necessarily a point in his favor but isn't necessarily against him either - if I were AG, after McDonald incorporates I'd go talk to Gene, Bill, and a few others and work on developing a strategy to ensure the orderly and inexorable march of 2A rights in California and that may not entail immediately moving to sue to kill the roster and the AWB ban.

It should be of interest that we know that JB has had some contact with CGF people and they have respect for his 2A credentials. No evidence at all that Whitman or Poizner have contacted them and engendered even one iota of respect for their commitment to our RKBA.

I've not met them but at this point I'd trust the CGF bigwigs at my back when it comes to the RKBA. I don't trust Whitman in the slightest.

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 6:25 PM
Read between the lines.

You guys know who I am and where I stand on rights.

I've had conversations with Brown that are very candid.

I am supporting Jerry Brown for Governor of California.


Are you picking up what I'm throwing down? ;)

Some of us get it and are with you.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:27 PM
Do you have any idea how monumental that brief really is? How persuasive SCOTUS finds a First District AG's Amicus?

That was the single most pro-gun act by any AG in 5 decades or more.

Pro gun is not giving lip service on paper but putting action in your own State equal to what you have written.

Please tell me where AG brown has accomplished this with the 2A in Cali?

I have yet to see his Pro gun stance in my State..............besides, he still has his massas to answer to in the Big D party before he could even do something monumental for the 2A in Cali

colossians323
04-27-2010, 6:31 PM
It should be of interest that we know that JB has had some contact with CGF people and they have respect for his 2A credentials. No evidence at all that Whitman or Poizner have contacted them and engendered even one iota of respect for their commitment to our RKBA.


I thought we went over this already. A career politician is kind of like a guy in a bar looking for some action at 2:00am in the morning. They'll say anything a girl wants to hear just so he could bag her. A career politician will whore themselves out to anyone that they view can help them get elected. No one said the JB is stoopid, He just happens to be that dude in the bar at 2:00am that doesn't want to go home alone:)

IEShooter
04-27-2010, 6:32 PM
Read between the lines.

You guys know who I am and where I stand on rights.

I've had conversations with Brown that are very candid.

I am supporting Jerry Brown for Governor of California.


Are you picking up what I'm throwing down? ;)

Sorry, but there's no way I'm voting for Jerry Brown. His position on "gun rights" is not that high on my list of deciding factors. You can read between the lines if you wish, but I'm not buying it.

His unwavering support of the left wing agenda and the Unions in this state are MUCH more of a concern to me. The public Unions will bankrupt California if not reigned in.

Frankly, I could care less about whether he is "less bad" to your position on gun rights. His well deserved reputation for left leaning governance is more than enough for me to take my vote elsewhere.

Gun rights barely make my top five list of concerns.

Regards,

John

Aleksei Vasiliev
04-27-2010, 6:34 PM
Sorry, but there's no way I'm voting for Jerry Brown. His position on "gun rights" is not that high on my list of deciding factors. You can read between the lines if you wish, but I'm not buying it.

His unwavering support of the left wing agenda and the Unions in this state are MUCH more of a concern to me. The public Unions will bankrupt California if not reigned in.

Frankly, I could care less about whether he is "less bad" to your position on gun rights. His well deserved reputation for left leaning governance is more than enough for me to take my vote elsewhere.

Gun rights barely make my top five list of concerns.You see a different candidate as less likely to bankrupt California?

Also, re-prioritize. Even I have gun rights as pretty much tied for 1st in importance.

willm952
04-27-2010, 6:36 PM
One important note I just remembered is that Jerry did say this was his last political term. Considering his age that just might be true so who knows how this will turn out if he becomes gov.

As for global warming leading to the new world order. The first bush stated this repeatedly and its not what you think it is.

Just google state sterilization laws in the 1920's. 25 states had them until a film maker made a movie showing what it really was. Eugenics is what its called.

Genome project is part of that effort. After the film was released all sterilization laws were abolished. Eungenics went underground for a while then resurfaced as environmentalism or the green movement in the 1950s'. Funny thing is that I know there are many in the green movement who sincerely believe in saving the earth and really don't mean any harm to people.

Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread. Just thought it would be helpful to clear up the matter.

Sgt Raven
04-27-2010, 6:43 PM
Sorry, but there's no way I'm voting for Jerry Brown. His position on "gun rights" is not that high on my list of deciding factors. You can read between the lines if you wish, but I'm not buying it.

His unwavering support of the left wing agenda and the Unions in this state are MUCH more of a concern to me. The public Unions will bankrupt California if not reigned in.

Frankly, I could care less about whether he is "less bad" to your position on gun rights. His well deserved reputation for left leaning governance is more than enough for me to take my vote elsewhere.

Gun rights barely make my top five list of concerns.

Regards,

John

Why are you on a gun rights board? :rolleyes: :TFH:

Bad Voodoo
04-27-2010, 6:43 PM
Jerry Brown also supports:

- CARB: California Air Resources Board. Killing industry with its gross regulations and fines.
- Cap & Trade. See: CARB.
- Public Unions. You know those extortionate city/county taxes? Those are paying public union wages, pensions and benefits policies before the city gets a dime to spend on what the people need.

You get the first 3 for free.

+1

So let me get this straight... 1.) we're supposed to cast a "reward" vote for JB's amicus brief; 2.) if we're lucky we'll maintain our already iron-fisted CA-style gun rights (because trust me, JB ain't gonna lift a finger one iota of an inch to change status quo); and 3.) in return, we'll get the benefit of standing by and watching helplessly as our remaining liberties are forcefully removed (for our own good), by JB's political appointees and the unions he's beholden to?

Call me naive, but it doesn't sound like a fair trade.

:sleeping:

IEShooter
04-27-2010, 6:45 PM
Also, re-prioritize. Even I have gun rights as pretty much tied for 1st in importance.

Really?!? Why?

Unlike many here, I don't live, eat and breathe guns. I value my 2nd amendment rights, but once again, they barely make my top five list of political concerns at the state level.

You seem to differ, and that's just fine. Neither of us is right or wrong. We just have different opinions on the subject.

Brown's left wing views are just too much for me to stomach. He won't be getting my vote.

Not trying to change your mind or sway you with my searing logic. :rolleyes: Frankly, I could care less about trying to convince people to agree with me.

We just have different opinions.

Regards,

John

Aleksei Vasiliev
04-27-2010, 6:45 PM
So let me get this straight... 1.) we're supposed to cast a "reward" vote for JB's amicus brief; 2.) if we're lucky we'll maintain our already iron-fisted CA-style gun rights (because trust me, JB ain't gonna lift a finger one iota of an inch to change status quo); and 3.) in return, we'll get the benefit of standing by and watching helplessly as our remaining liberties are forcefully removed (for our own good), by JB's political appointees and the unions he's beholden to?

Call me naive, but it doesn't sound like a fair tradeWould you prefer to vote for eBay/PayPal?

Really?!? Why?

Unlike many here, I don't live, eat and breathe guns. I value my 2nd amendment rights, but once again, they barely make my top five list of political concerns at the state level.

You seem to differ, and that's just fine. Neither of us is right or wrong. We just have different opinions on the subject.I pretty much figure California's going to hell in a handbasket and we might as well end up there with better gun rights and civil rights (LGBT, etc). So I don't really care about economics or stuff like that anymore.

Shotgun Man
04-27-2010, 6:47 PM
Gun rights barely make my top five list of concerns.

Regards,

John

In my view, you're part of the problem then.

IEShooter
04-27-2010, 6:50 PM
Why are you on a gun rights board? :rolleyes: :TFH:

Ummm, because I have an interest in guns and shooting and thoroughly enjoy taking my five year old son out to shoot to pass on the tradition. His two year old sister will likely enjoy it as well when she's a bit older.

Having said that, it doesn't necessarily follow that guns would be the most important thing to me from a political and governance stand point.

Perhaps you feel differently.

Regards,

John

Bad Voodoo
04-27-2010, 6:55 PM
I pretty much figure California's going to hell in a handbasket and we might as well end up there with better gun rights...

And you think JB is going to grant the unwashed masses "better gun rights."

Umm, sure. Gotcha.

Edit: JB and his unions are part of the problem. Meg Whitman and her personal fortune is part of the problem. You want "better gun rights" your focus should be on your legislative and local races. Entrenched politicians need to go, at every level of CA's government.

Ding126
04-27-2010, 7:00 PM
McCain......Obama...........McCain..........OBAMA. .........serious flash backs.

willm952
04-27-2010, 7:08 PM
McCain......Obama...........McCain..........OBAMA. .........serious flash backs.

exactly 2008 all over again.
Let's vote for someone else. Not further any our gun rights agenda but simply to keep the worst 2 possible choices from being elected. Unless Jerry is serious about his retirement from politics but who knows about that.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 7:17 PM
Really?!? Why?

Unlike many here, I don't live, eat and breathe guns. I value my 2nd amendment rights, but once again, they barely make my top five list of political concerns at the state level.

You seem to differ, and that's just fine. Neither of us is right or wrong. We just have different opinions on the subject.

Brown's left wing views are just too much for me to stomach. He won't be getting my vote.

Not trying to change your mind or sway you with my searing logic. :rolleyes: Frankly, I could care less about trying to convince people to agree with me.

We just have different opinions.

Regards,

John

Question, which right is it that most insures that we keep all of our rights?

Wouldn't that one right be the most important of all rights? Not that I am a single item voter, but if you don't have that at the top of your list, how would you expect to keep the rest of our valued rights. some one has to keep the govt at bay and it certainly is not the 1a that would do that:eek:

colossians323
04-27-2010, 7:19 PM
And you think JB is going to grant the unwashed masses "better gun rights."

Umm, sure. Gotcha.

Edit: JB and his unions are part of the problem. Meg Whitman and her personal fortune is part of the problem. You want "better gun rights" your focus should be on your legislative and local races. Entrenched politicians need to go, at every level of CA's government.

Amen and hallelujah............now pass the ammo!

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 7:23 PM
I think a certain perspective is being missed. Maybe I've got it all wrong but I sorta doubt it.

From what I can tell, Jerry Brown is a sorta odd but bright fellow who actually believes in the Constitution (although his interpretation differs from mine). He has played the political game but generally done it more honestly than have most (scary because he pushed for some stupid stuff but good because he mostly means what he says which is unusual in a politician). It is possible that if he had not shoved his staff to the side and filed an Amicus brief on our side that we would be losing our fight for incorporation of the 2A - but with his support it looks like we're winning.

Remember this, without Jerry Brown we might never have been able to make the State of California respect the RKBA. Maybe it would have happened anyway but I'd not bet all that much on it.

So you have an aging politician who certifiably believes that the RKBA should be incorporated against the states making his last run for office at a time when McDonald is about to be handed down. Brown appears to have no further political aspirations so he needn't protect his political base. He has also had conversations with CGF types which cause them to support him.

What I surmise is that JB will stay far away from the gun and ammo issues until after he is elected other than to say that he believes in the Constitution and the 2A RKBA. At that time you can expect him to veto any stupid restrictions on the RKBA. How valuable this will be is almost incalculable as over the next 4 years there will be many aspects of California gun stupidity struck down by the courts - and commensurate legislative attempts to re-instate the stupidity.

Whitman's statements so far suggest she would sign the renewed stupidity. This is an immense difference.

I do not expect JB to make a push for legislation to reverse our current gun laws - that would fail. I expect him to veto renewed stupidity - and I think there is good reason to believe that he would.

And stop with the talk about how he didn't sue to get rid of the roster and the AWB, etc. It would have been a strategic mistake with bad consequences for us.

383green
04-27-2010, 7:23 PM
As AG, how come he challenges prop 8 but doesn't challenge the drop test, or the AWB?

Because he was the AG when Prop 8 was enacted, but he wasn't the AG when the drop test and the AWB were enacted. I'm not trying to argue whether he's pro-this or anti-that, but it's irrational to blame him for the things that he didn't do as AG when he wasn't the AG yet.


Is that why he has challenged the laws that are unconstitutional, which would be his duty as AG???

I may be mistaken, but I don't think that challenging existing laws on constitutional grounds is part of the AG's job description, or even something he has the legal power to do. His job is to implement and enforce existing laws, and provide legal counsel to the state. A legal challenge against an existing law based on its constitutionality needs to be brought by somebody with standing. It's not something that the AG can just do on a whim, as I understand things. He's required to implement and enforce the AWB and drop test, whether he wants to or not, until the legislature or a high enough court decide otherwise. If a new law comes along through the legislature he can support it or oppose it, but once it gets signed by the governor, he has to implement it and enforce it. Even if he believes that a particular state law is unconstitutional, and even if he provides a legal brief opposing the law, he's still stuck enforcing it until an applicable court strikes it down.

You can like him or dislike him, but blaming him for things he wasn't involved in and/or didn't have the legal power to do doesn't make sense.

In case it's not clear, I neither support nor oppose Brown as governor at this time. I'm just pointing out some irrational elements that I've seen discussed here.

IEShooter
04-27-2010, 7:24 PM
Question, which right is it that most insures that we keep all of our rights?

:eek:

The right to vote.

Regards,

John

Bad Voodoo
04-27-2010, 7:25 PM
Remember this, without Jerry Brown we might never have been able to make the State of California respect the RKBA. Maybe it would have happened anyway but I'd not bet all that much on it.

I feel like Rip Van Winkle. California respects the RKBA? :icon_bs:

Since WHEN?!?

trashman
04-27-2010, 7:28 PM
Allison Merrilees resigned to work for anti-gun state senator Ellen Corbett. Also, Wil Cid (headed DOJ Fireams bureau) retired. It will be interesting to see who (or if) Brown replaces them with.

I'll be damned. Great news!

--Neill

singleshotman
04-27-2010, 7:30 PM
Just rebember what his FATHER, said to him once, "You don't fool with a man's gun and you don't fool with a man's car". I am sure he rebember's that, cause i don't rebember any gun laws passed when he was Govenor.Forgive my spelling.

Ding126
04-27-2010, 7:34 PM
Because he was the AG when Prop 8 was enacted, but he wasn't the AG when the drop test and the AWB were enacted. I'm not trying to argue whether he's pro-this or anti-that, but it's irrational to blame him for the things that he didn't do as AG when he wasn't the AG yet.




I may be mistaken, but I don't think that challenging existing laws on constitutional grounds is part of the AG's job description, or even something he has the legal power to do. His job is to implement and enforce existing laws, and provide legal counsel to the state. A legal challenge against an existing law based on its constitutionality needs to be brought by somebody with standing. It's not something that the AG can just do on a whim, as I understand things. He's required to implement and enforce the AWB and drop test, whether he wants to or not, until the legislature or a high enough court decide otherwise. If a new law comes along through the legislature he can support it or oppose it, but once it gets signed by the governor, he has to implement it and enforce it. Even if he believes that a particular state law is unconstitutional, and even if he provides a legal brief opposing the law, he's still stuck enforcing it until an applicable court strikes it down.

You can like him or dislike him, but blaming him for things he wasn't involved in and/or didn't have the legal power to do doesn't make sense.

In case it's not clear, I neither support nor oppose Brown as governor at this time. I'm just pointing out some irrational elements that I've seen discussed here.

very well said and rational..+1

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 7:36 PM
I feel like Rip Van Winkle. California respects the RKBA? :icon_bs:

Since WHEN?!?

If you look at the context, it is clear that I am speaking prospectively. I believe we won McDonald and it is just a matter of getting the decision handed down and California will be forced to respect the RKBA. It will take time, but if Brown is our governor it will take less time than if Whitman is in the governorship.

colossians323
04-27-2010, 7:37 PM
The right to vote.

Regards,

John

What protects that right? the government?

Nevada Hudson
04-27-2010, 7:42 PM
Remember who appointed Rose Bird.

Bad Voodoo
04-27-2010, 7:43 PM
If you look at the context, it is clear that I am speaking prospectively. I believe we won McDonald and it is just a matter of getting the decision handed down and California will be forced to respect the RKBA. It will take time, but if Brown is our governor it will take less time than if Whitman is in the governorship.

That's a mighty wide chasm between JB being responsible for CA's respect for RKBA and CA being forced to respect the RKBA. As for who the Governor happens to be when CA is ultimately forced to comply with the constitution, it doesn't matter a bit whether it's JB or Whitman. Here's a news flash. Those championing JB on this site are either union, or view their individual vote as token reward. Nothing more, nothing less. Politics by definition.

Ding126
04-27-2010, 7:46 PM
we all agree to disagree

IEShooter
04-27-2010, 7:57 PM
we all agree to disagree

Ummmm.,,,, is it okay if I agree with your assertion that it is okay that we agree to disagree?????? :)

Seriously though, we're all pontificating over what is a basic right....the right to vote. We can each vote our conscience. Kinda nice, isn't it????

Unless of course, they enact card check, in which case you (not me) may have a Union thug breathing down your neck to ensure you check the block for Union representation and give up your rights to the ballot box.

To each his own.:rolleyes:

Regards,

John

bwiese
04-27-2010, 7:58 PM
That's a mighty wide chasm between JB being responsible for CA's respect for RKBA and CA being forced to respect the RKBA. As for who the Governor happens to be when CA is ultimately forced to comply with the constitution, it doesn't matter a bit whether it's JB or Whitman. Here's a news flash. Those championing JB on this site are either union, or view their individual vote as token reward. Nothing more, nothing less. Politics by definition.

Are you accusing me, hoffman and a ton others here of being union?

BTW, the game we're playing is called politics. You have to be in the stadium to win. For numerous reasons we've come to believe JB has some understanding of 2nd as individual right, and he's done quite a few favors for gunnies. People are out of jail because of JB actions.

If you think Meg Whitman will veto bad gun bills more than Arnie did, you're smoking something funny. I'd like to reward JB with support so that he rewards us with vetos on upcoming bad gun bills. The election will be close and gunnie vote will be very very imporant.

bwiese
04-27-2010, 7:59 PM
That's a mighty wide chasm between JB being responsible for CA's respect for RKBA and CA being forced to respect the RKBA. As for who the Governor happens to be when CA is ultimately forced to comply with the constitution, it doesn't matter a bit whether it's JB or Whitman. Here's a news flash. Those championing JB on this site are either union, or view their individual vote as token reward. Nothing more, nothing less. Politics by definition.

Are you accusing me, hoffman and a ton others here of being union?

BTW, the game we're playing is called politics. You have to be in the stadium to win. For numerous reasons we've come to believe JB has some understanding of 2nd as individual right, and he's done quite a few favors for gunnies. People are out of jail because of JB actions.

If you think Meg Whitman will veto bad gun bills more than Arnie did, you're smoking something funny. I'd like to reward JB with support so that he rewards us with vetos on upcoming bad gun bills. The election will be close and gunnie vote will be very very important.

Ding126
04-27-2010, 8:03 PM
Ummmm.,,,, is it okay if I agree with your assertion that it is okay that we agree to disagree?????? :)

Seriously though, we're all pontificating over what is a basic right....the right to vote. We can each vote our conscience. Kinda nice, isn't it????

Unless of course, they enact card check, in which case you (not me) may have a Union thug breathing down your neck to ensure you check the block for Union representation and give up your rights to the ballot box.

To each his own.:rolleyes:

Regards,

John

Not clear on what you are trying to say...but if your assuming I'm in a union.

I'll take assumptions for 1000 Alex

IEShooter
04-27-2010, 8:16 PM
BTW, the game we're playing is called politics. You have to be in the stadium to win.

I respect your view on the subject and agree wholeheartedly that if you're not in the game, you have no chance of being heard.

Nevertheless, I disagree with the view that JB is the lesser of the assembled evils. His vague position on gun rights in no way trumps his hard left legislative accomplishments and Socialistic tendancies.

These realities and the "take" they represent in no way overcome the "give" you feel you may get from his 2nd amendment leanings, at least for me.

Regards,

John

Ding126
04-27-2010, 8:23 PM
"Take" and "give" is that code for "Hope" & "Change"?

Ding126
04-27-2010, 8:26 PM
He wants to pass the California global warming initiative which is estimated to cost the state over a million jobs, and raise taxes on the average family by $4000 a year. :whistling: Just sayin'

Does it cost jobs or create them? Please provide additional info...

How much is universal heath care gonna cost each of us?? Hope/Change anyone?

IEShooter
04-27-2010, 8:26 PM
Not clear on what you are trying to say...but if your assuming I'm in a union.

I'll take assumptions for 1000 Alex

Wasn't my intent at all. My apologies if you felt maligned.

Kidding aside, I was simply pointing out that I am not, nor have ever been covered under a collective bargaining agreement. That explains the "you, not me", comment. It was meant to draw a distinction between Union members and those of us who shudder at the thought.....

Regards,

John

OleCuss
04-27-2010, 9:05 PM
That's a mighty wide chasm between JB being responsible for CA's respect for RKBA and CA being forced to respect the RKBA. As for who the Governor happens to be when CA is ultimately forced to comply with the constitution, it doesn't matter a bit whether it's JB or Whitman. Here's a news flash. Those championing JB on this site are either union, or view their individual vote as token reward. Nothing more, nothing less. Politics by definition.

I am amazed to find out about the degree of the union connection. I suspect your statement is somewhat in error. . .

I'd also disagree immensely with the statement that, "who the Governor happens to be when CA is ultimately forced to comply with the constitution, it doesn't matter a bit whether it's JB or Whitman.". I begin to wonder if we are on the same planet!

Look, you can anticipate a favorable McDonald decision in late June. Then Sykes and Nordyke are likely to actually advance our 2A rights. You can then expect our legislature to pass bills intended to kill our RKBA to the extent possible under the 2A. (Any belief they won't try that would be naive at best).

Whitman is effectively on the record saying she likes our current gun restrictions and can be expected to sign that restrictive legislation meaning that we then have to again sue for our rights - using up more of our money and political capital.

Brown is highly likely to veto such legislation. You don't have to believe it, but the indications for this are very strong. The importance of this is so huge I do not understand how anyone could miss it. Even if Brown simply discourages such legislation it will be huge as it will mean we just won't have to deal with some of the garbage we'll otherwise have to fight.

Look, I'm a relatively junior member of the board and I've not been a gun activist but I've been around this Earth for quite a while now and I've followed news and politics for since I was rather young. I have a pretty good idea how it works and I've met and discussed issues with people ranging from local staffers to congressmen and the ministerial level in foreign governments. I'm not a political player but I know how the game is played better than most of us who aren't.

When it comes to Brown vs. Whitman what is not being said is even more than what is being said.

I really don't want Brown to be my governor. I'd probably like Naritelli a lot more. . . But Whitman is scary bad news at so many levels. . . I've said it before and I'll say it again, there isn't any conservative issue on which Whitman will be both more conservative and effective than Jerry Brown - meaning that you will not win more with Whitman on any conservative issue than you would with Brown. Doesn't mean Brown is a conservative after my own heart - far from it.

Let me put it another way. I'm not a politician and have never aspired to be one. But I'll bet you that I'd be both a more effective governor and a far more conservative one than would Whitman. But if I compare myself to Brown I think I would be much less effective and considerably more conservative.

One more way. Brown will be effectively more conservative than Whitman. Didn't say he will be conservative, just effectively more conservative. (Not a compliment to Brown but a slam at Whitman.)

rimfire78
04-27-2010, 9:19 PM
Does it cost jobs or create them? Please provide additional info...

How much is universal heath care gonna cost each of us?? Hope/Change anyone?

http://www.jobs2010ca.com/

abusalim81
04-27-2010, 10:31 PM
Jerry Brown is a jackas* who is against semi-auto rifles and against 50 cal. rifles and also brady bunch and other Kalifornian liberals support him on his 2nd ammendment views.

383green
04-27-2010, 10:58 PM
Jerry Brown is a jackas* who is against semi-auto rifles and against 50 cal. rifles

I'm interested in seeing what evidence you have to support that statement.

Sleepy McGee
04-28-2010, 12:55 AM
I'm betting the farm on Poizner.




Political correctness shuts people up and keeps the border open.
Leo W. Banks

Hogxtz
04-28-2010, 5:23 AM
Gee, backround schmackround. If you'll say it publicly? He could win all he wants, thats the problem with politicians, they'll tell you what you want to hear until they get into office and then its a free for all. I am in no way endorsing that hag whitman. hell would have to freeze over for me to vote for her, but on the flip side I am not sure how any 2A loving member could vote in good conscience for our friend Jerry Brown. I noticed that he has conveniently had that video removed, where he touts how he is anti 2nd amendment. How convenient!

So don't vote at all than, or throw away your vote on a unknown that has no chance in hell. That way the divide and conquer will cause Witless to win and we can watch all our remaining gun rights wither away. But hey, at least you could still look at yourself in the mirror with a clean concience. :confused:

Thank god most pro 2a folks don't think that way or we would be screwed.

Bad Voodoo
04-28-2010, 7:21 AM
Are you accusing me, hoffman and a ton others here of being union?

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if you were, but no, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. You had two choices. You chose to focus on one.

...For numerous reasons we've come to believe JB has some understanding of 2nd as individual right...

I don't doubt that for a second. In fact, he's proven to have that understanding. However, his "understanding" of the 2nd as an individual right is no more compelling to me than Obama's understanding of it. They ALL know and understand it, they just choose to fight it based on the undesirable taste 'real liberty' leaves in their collective mouths. Brown may be enforcing the law as it's on the books today, but he's not going to lift a finger to proactively give gunnies anything.

If you think Meg Whitman will...

I'm not currently focused on Whitman vs. Brown. I'm focused on Poizner vs. Whitman. I'm no more a fan of Whitman than I am of Brown.

OleCuss
04-28-2010, 7:36 AM
I would really like it if someone knowledgeable would sit down with Poizner and have a thorough discussion of the issues of guns, the RKBA, as well as the current political climate and the art of the doable. I'd be thrilled if we could turn him into a staunch RKBA advocate and help him stomp Whitman. If all of that could occur then Poizner might get my vote instead of Brown.

As it is, Brown is a far better choice than is Whitman. Right now Brown might be a better choice than Poizner but that could change, IMHO. And even if Poizner doesn't get much this time around it might be possible to help groom him for 2014.

Ding126
04-28-2010, 8:16 AM
Wasn't my intent at all. My apologies if you felt maligned.

Kidding aside, I was simply pointing out that I am not, nor have ever been covered under a collective bargaining agreement. That explains the "you, not me", comment. It was meant to draw a distinction between Union members and those of us who shudder at the thought.....

Regards,

John


No apology needed..Not offended.

383green
04-28-2010, 8:18 AM
I would really like it if someone knowledgeable would sit down with Poizner and have a thorough discussion of the issues of guns, the RKBA, as well as the current political climate and the art of the doable.


There's another discussion thread on that topic right here:

Meeting with Steve Poizner (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=295428)

I see that you're already in that thread, but I'm linking it here for the benefit of others who may have missed it. Even if he doesn't have any chance at the Governor's seat, it may be worth our while to educate him on Second Amendment issues for whatever other office(s) he holds in the future.

demnogis
04-28-2010, 8:19 AM
Somehow this is turning into an argument of "choosing the least bad" candidate. Why do such discussions on candidates always go this way? By now we should all have learned that either "bad candidate" is not worth electing.

There are more than 2 candidates. Read what everyone else is touting. As far as I know there's also Chelene Nightingale and Steve Poizner. If you don't know about all the awesomely horrible stuff Jerry Brown did when he was gubner last time, ask someone who was around back then. As for Meg Whitman, most everyone knows she will sign any anti 2A bills.

There's always more than 2 candidates. There's a few here who realize that you can't keep picking either idiot from the same 2 pools and expect results.

Ding126
04-28-2010, 8:24 AM
I would really like it if someone knowledgeable would sit down with Poizner and have a thorough discussion of the issues of guns, the RKBA, as well as the current political climate and the art of the doable. I'd be thrilled if we could turn him into a staunch RKBA advocate and help him stomp Whitman. If all of that could occur then Poizner might get my vote instead of Brown.

As it is, Brown is a far better choice than is Whitman. Right now Brown might be a better choice than Poizner but that could change, IMHO. And even if Poizner doesn't get much this time around it might be possible to help groom him for 2014.


I agree..but to voice gun support in this state is political suicide..thats a fact. All discussions would have to be private. I assume thats why JB has not come out banging his drum. (as with all the legit candidates ) All of us here would like to know more and hear pro gun support from the candidates...It ain't gonna happen from anyone who has a chance to secure a nomination. Not now but after the election..so we need to get private intel and talk amoung ourselves...as soon as the NRA endorces someone the Brady's and anti's will be out in force against them..and the SF & LA politician will run with it.

OleCuss
04-28-2010, 8:37 AM
I agree..but to voice gun support in this state is political suicide..thats a fact. All discussions would have to be private. I assume thats why JB has not come out banging his drum. (as with all the legit candidates ) All of us here would like to know more and hear pro gun support from the candidates...It ain't gonna happen from anyone who has a chance to secure a nomination. Not now but after the election..so we need to get private intel and talk amoung ourselves...as soon as the NRA endorces someone the Brady's and anti's will be out in force against them..and the SF & LA politician will run with it.

Mostly agree with you. But at this point Poizner needs to shake things up. I'm pretty sure he'd want to keep any very strong RKBA support relatively quiet.

But as it is he looks to have little chance in the primary unless he shakes things up rather significantly. It could actually be to his advantage to come out strong on a very conservative position. Something like saying that the McDonald case appears to be a slam dunk for incorporation against the states and since the law of the land does (or very soon will) say that the states must respect the RKBA, Poizner will work to ensure that our rights are respected and we are allowed to bear our arms as a matter of course. Thus he will work toward shall issue CCW and explore other ways of ensuring that the California population can get the training needed for proper use of firearms and that they are allowed to have the firearms that the other citizens of the U.S. can obtain. He'll rationalize the waiting period. Maybe stating that he does not fear the armed law-abiding citizen - he wants to disarm the criminal element.

It just might energize the Republican base for the Primary vote. And if Jerry Brown really does believe in the RKBA then he mightn't even suffer that much in the general election thereafter.

I do not know if this would fit with his political calculus.

Ding126
04-28-2010, 8:46 AM
I agree..SP needs to shake it up & take a stance...big time and soon.

Soldier415
04-28-2010, 9:02 AM
To quote Bweise..."I'd vote for a donkey sex maniac if he were pro-gun"

xrMike
04-28-2010, 10:06 AM
To quote Bweise..."I'd vote for a donkey sex maniac if he were pro-gun"I would too -- unless I cared about more than one issue in life. Or if I was the donkey. ;)

Glock22Fan
04-28-2010, 11:48 AM
There's a few here who realize that you can't keep picking either idiot from the same 2 pools and expect results.


There's more than a few of us here whose lifetime experience has made them realize that short of a miracle, picking anyone from the far back of the pack is even more of a waste of time, no matter how much you agree with their views.

Do I like it that it is this way? Absolutely not. But, as Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government - except for the alternatives."

The more effective way, as communists have known for ages, is to pick the main party nearest to your views (from the two frontrunners), infiltrate it and change it from the inside. Do you know how few people there are actually actively engaged in shaping the views of the two big parties? I haven't bothered since I came over here, but when I was younger I learned that my voice did make a difference in local politics and, by extension, national politics. I actually, by invitation, stood for an elected seat. Not a winnable seat, but newcomers are expected to learn the trade the hard way. Do a good job and you get offered a winnable chance.

Get a half dozen friends to join your local party and attend meetings. That's probably enough to get one (or more) of them on the local committee. Do this in all the local areas and you start having some serious pull. Then you can start plugging the candidates that we really need.

The amount of pull that you would need to do it this way is far less than the pull you'd need to give an outsider a serious chance.

Does this work?

Ask yourself how Obama got to be president. A small number of people have been pushing and guiding his path right from the beginning. They did it through one of the main parties, not by promoting him as a third party candidate. Ralph Nader probably had just as much support in the earlier days, and look where that got him.

thorsmith59
04-28-2010, 12:30 PM
Read between the lines.

You guys know who I am and where I stand on rights.

I've had conversations with Brown that are very candid.

I am supporting Jerry Brown for Governor of California.


Are you picking up what I'm throwing down? ;)

Being relatively new on this forum, I don't know where you or anyone else stand on anything.

I also really don't like reading between the lines. If you have some knowledge of substance please share it in plain english.

I would like for once to have a candidate to actually support. 2A rights support from that candidate is and should be one of the top concerns of everyone who loves and believes in freedom.

Glock22Fan
04-28-2010, 12:46 PM
viableBeing relatively new on this forum, I don't know where you or anyone else stand on anything.

I also really don't like reading between the lines. If you have some knowledge of substance please share it in plain english.

I would like for once to have a candidate to actually support. 2A rights support from that candidate is and should be one of the top concerns of everyone who loves and believes in freedom.

Welcome, even if belatedly, to the forum.

More than enough has been said already to show that JB is, of all the viable candidates, on our side. Maybe not as much as some of us would like, but way enough to be better than any other viable candidate.

However, the politics of California is such that candidates can't afford to openly be too pro guns. That was the mistake Poochigian made and, I have to say, Jerry nailed him for it.

I had a private conversation with one of the candidates for L.A. sheriff last time around. He assured me that he was totally pro firearms and would do his best to issue as many CCW's as he could. He also said that if I spread that around, he would lose the election (he did anyway, the incumbent has such an advantage).

Artherd is one of the more senior and well respected members of this board. I imagine that his conversation with JB was more open than JB would want publicised. The "reading between the lines" that you want explained probably can't be fully explained without a) breaching confidence and/or b) giving ammunition to the anti-gun crowd.

I think you will have to take his word that he thinks we should support JB at face value, or ignore it. Your choice, but IMHO, you would do well to listen to him and attempt to "read between the lines."

OleCuss
04-28-2010, 1:00 PM
Being relatively new on this forum, I don't know where you or anyone else stand on anything.

I also really don't like reading between the lines. If you have some knowledge of substance please share it in plain english.

I would like for once to have a candidate to actually support. 2A rights support from that candidate is and should be one of the top concerns of everyone who loves and believes in freedom.

I'd pretty much like to second what Glock22fan said. There are a number of people on this forum who have a just amazing depth of knowledge of the issues and the players with regard to the RKBA (and a fair number of other items). Artherd is one of them.

One way to tell is to see if they are a director or member of the CGF board. I've come to the conclusion that there may not be a single collection of individuals more committed and/or knowledgeable about the RKBA in California than that bunch. There are others who are incredibly knowledgeable and committed as well but are not on the board - takes a little longer to identify them but they're worth it.

Someday I expect I'll meet one or more of them. I'll try very hard not to kneel at their feet. . .:p

goodlookin1
04-28-2010, 1:23 PM
Jerry Brown supports 2A....

That's funny: http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/857. Wonder what changed his mind?

He's lying to one of the sides.....I'll reserve judgment on which side he's lying to.

bwiese
04-28-2010, 1:26 PM
Jerry Brown supports 2A....

That's funny: http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/857. Wonder what changed his mind?

He's lying to one of the sides.....I'll reserve judgment on which side he's lying to.


The Bradys had to support someone.
They couldn't support Poochigian who was publicly (and stupidly) pro-gun.

If they don't back someone they become irrelevant.

I do know since then they've been quite disappointed.

Glock22Fan
04-28-2010, 2:41 PM
The Bradys had to support someone.
They couldn't support Poochigian who was publicly (and stupidly) pro-gun.

If they don't back someone they become irrelevant.

I do know since then they've been quite disappointed.

+1

Remember that when the Bradys supported JB, it was as opposed to Pooch. Of the two, JB was the less gun-friendly. Also, at that time, he had not demonstrated the gun-friendliness he has done since then, what with the amicus brief and the reining in of the Firearms department.

It's one thing that they supported him then. I'd be amazed if they supported him now. That caption of the other thread "The Bradys support JB" is misleading. It should be in the past tense. This time around, I would not be suprised if it should read "The Bradys Support Meg."

colossians323
04-28-2010, 7:45 PM
Being relatively new on this forum, I don't know where you or anyone else stand on anything.

I also really don't like reading between the lines. If you have some knowledge of substance please share it in plain english.

I would like for once to have a candidate to actually support. 2A rights support from that candidate is and should be one of the top concerns of everyone who loves and believes in freedom.

Hi, welcome aboard:)