PDA

View Full Version : Wikipedia mentions CA AW w/Harrott aspects and Ferranto commission memo...


bwiese
02-27-2006, 10:20 AM
Wikipedia article on state-by-state gun control mentions Harrott v Kings County restrictions on CA AW law, and Ferranto commission memo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_the_United_States_%28by_state%29

C.G.
02-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Wikipedia article on state-by-state gun control mentions Harrott v Kings County restrictions on CA AW law, and Ferranto commission memo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_the_United_States_%28by_state%29

Concise and unbiased gist.

phish
02-27-2006, 10:29 AM
grammaton76, were those your keystrokes?

:)

bwiese
02-27-2006, 11:07 AM
Dunno who did the initial stuff about Harrott issues, it was pretty good.

I just finished tweaking it a bit more and added a few more lines about recent high purchase volume and I'd appreciate it if other Calgunners would leave it sit unchanged for awhile since, for a variety of reasons, it will serve my purposes nicely.

Time to terrorize the soccer moms ;)

shopkeep
02-27-2006, 11:32 AM
Dunno who did the initial stuff about Harrott issues, it was pretty good.

I just finished tweaking it a bit more and added a few more lines about recent high purchase volume and I'd appreciate it if other Calgunners would leave it sit unchanged for awhile since, for a variety of reasons, it will serve my purposes nicely.

Time to terrorize the soccer moms ;)

I'm glad you added that part... the part about the "recent high volume sales" is my favorite part of the memo :D!

wutzu
02-27-2006, 11:39 AM
definite +1 to that

grammaton76
02-27-2006, 5:38 PM
grammaton76, were those your keystrokes?

Wasn't me - I don't do wikipedia. :)

Side note, thegunwiki's got a bunch of folks cotributing now, which is pretty cool. Started earlier this week - I'm happy about it!

shopkeep
02-27-2006, 7:29 PM
I sure hope none of this stirring up the pot leads to unintended consequences for us. I hope it just causes this whole thing to blow up in the DOJ's face.

TKo_Productions
02-27-2006, 7:39 PM
I sure hope none of this stirring up the pot leads to unintended consequences for us. I hope it just causes this whole thing to blow up in the DOJ's face.

What type of unintended consequences do you foresee?

Worst case scenario is that the DOJ decides not to list these lowers and we're forced to configure them in a PC 12276.1 compliant manner. Which is the current situation anyway!

I say stir the pot, infuriate the hornets, and wake the giant.

Like Bill said in another post, its been 2 months since it all began and 2+ weeks since SHOT. They've had more than adequate time to research and compile a list of off list lowers and to get the registration forms back from the printer.

Lets roll.

blacklisted
02-27-2006, 9:17 PM
This is being challenged by pro-gun groups, since there is no criminal violation in the California Penal Code for adding or changing features to a legally-acquired, registered assault weapon.

I love that line, it's a great way of explaining the "issue" with the memo.

Bill, if you ever need help terrorizing soccer moms, I'm an expert at that. ;)

xenophobe
02-27-2006, 9:30 PM
DOJ already knows that what they want isn't fully supported by law. They are taking this slow and cautiously, because no matter what they attempt, they will be in the wrong... with some group, organization or collective.

Failure to append the list will keep the challenge that 'an identified assault weapon is an assault weapon no matter what the configuration' from reaching the courts. It also results in a continued stream of AR and AK type receivers into the state, some small fraction of which will be made into illegal assault weapons. Letting this continue would be political suicide to many anti-gun legislators as well as the Attorney General when news of this eventually breaks. The last thing they want a few years down the road is an unregistered Assault Weapon that was purchased in parts legally to be used in crime.

Listing in haste will most likely leave a space for obscure companies, some of which have already stated that once named, they will open up another company and run it concurrently to produce more 'off-list' lowers until that entity becomes named. This is not just wishful thinking, manufacturers' FFLs have been applied for, and new addresses, Ficticious Business Name Statements, City, County and State licenses are being aquired, and once particular companies are no longer allowed to sell their product here, production will shift. Prospective orders for new 'off-list' receivers are already being taken. Listing will also make the DOJ change their interpretation of the law, create new policy and open themselves to the scruitny of the courts. CA DOJ does not want to be in the courts... after winning Kasler with an appeal that wouldn't be heard, their letdown against Harrot is something that stung. They certainly do not want to lose in court again.

So what is the Department of Justice to do? I think the reason we haven't seen an updated list is because they know even better than we do that this is a no-win situation for them. They're trying to find a path least fraught with total disaster and dissapointment, and at this juncture, it's hard to tell which route this is. Allow people to register AWs or to let the flow of unlisted receivers continue into the state and face the media scrutiny of either... They realize they're in a bind of their own making, with truths that they're not prepared to face in the public arena. They're caught like a deer in bright lights with oncoming traffic in both directions. It's really going to be interesting to see which direction they go. They can't stall forever.

1911_Mitch
02-27-2006, 9:35 PM
That sums it up nicely.

This should be interesting, it's just the waiting thats hard.

Ford8N
02-28-2006, 4:57 AM
DOJ already knows that what they want isn't fully supported by law. They are taking this slow and cautiously, because no matter what they attempt, they will be in the wrong... with some group, organization or collective.

Failure to append the list will keep the challenge that 'an identified assault weapon is an assault weapon no matter what the configuration' from reaching the courts. It also results in a continued stream of AR and AK type receivers into the state, some small fraction of which will be made into illegal assault weapons. Letting this continue would be political suicide to many anti-gun legislators as well as the Attorney General when news of this eventually breaks. The last thing they want a few years down the road is an unregistered Assault Weapon that was purchased in parts legally to be used in crime.

Listing in haste will most likely leave a space for obscure companies, some of which have already stated that once named, they will open up another company and run it concurrently to produce more 'off-list' lowers until that entity becomes named. This is not just wishful thinking, manufacturers' FFLs have been applied for, and new addresses, Ficticious Business Name Statements, City, County and State licenses are being aquired, and once particular companies are no longer allowed to sell their product here, production will shift. Prospective orders for new 'off-list' receivers are already being taken. Listing will also make the DOJ change their interpretation of the law, create new policy and open themselves to the scruitny of the courts. CA DOJ does not want to be in the courts... after winning Kasler with an appeal that wouldn't be heard, their letdown against Harrot is something that stung. They certainly do not want to lose in court again.

So what is the Department of Justice to do? I think the reason we haven't seen an updated list is because they know even better than we do that this is a no-win situation for them. They're trying to find a path least fraught with total disaster and dissapointment, and at this juncture, it's hard to tell which route this is. Allow people to register AWs or to let the flow of unlisted receivers continue into the state and face the media scrutiny of either... They realize they're in a bind of their own making, with truths that they're not prepared to face in the public arena. They're caught like a deer in bright lights with oncoming traffic in both directions. It's really going to be interesting to see which direction they go. They can't stall forever.



Good job summing it up xeno. In other words, they have painted themselves in a corner. But remember, a cornered animal is dangerous and does crazy things to get out of the corner. Of course, then it makes mistakes.=)

This is interesting to watch.

grammaton76
02-28-2006, 10:31 AM
I'm just hoping that once they list, that someone comes up with an Umbrella Corp branded receiver, with a logo I can fill in with the correct Umbrella paint scheme. :)

xenophobe
02-28-2006, 10:39 AM
Count me in for a few of those! lol

PanzerAce
02-28-2006, 10:46 AM
nah, I would rather have have a receiver marked 'Safe', 'SHTF', and all the way over: 'TEOTWAWKI' (not actually a valid position, but would still be cool)