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View Full Version : Has anyone tried for a sbr permit in san b co lately


stormy_clothing
04-22-2010, 8:52 PM
Thinking about pursuing a permit for one of my rifles and I was wondering if anyone else has gone down that road lately in San Bernardino area.

bwiese
04-22-2010, 9:56 PM
SBR permit is not locality-dependent in CA. Doesn't matter San B. vs. Eureka.

You'll have to go thru DOJ to get a Dangerous Weapons permit, which is discretionary-issue. It'll be $$ every year, too.

You won't get one. You're not a movie studio or Blackwater/Xe.

stormy_clothing
04-22-2010, 10:15 PM
I know the permit is state wide but I understand the CLEO has to sign off on it first. Ours is Rod Hoops currently.

Assuming I was in some sort of position to believe I would get the permit I was hoping to avoid any pitfalls that may have come up lately that's all.

Barkoff
04-22-2010, 10:18 PM
SBR permit?

tacticalcity
04-22-2010, 10:21 PM
SBR stands for SHORT BARRELED RIFLE, a rifle with a barrel under 16 inches. In states other than California you can apply for TAX stamp, pay for it every year, and own one. Howver, here in California it has to be C&R and cannot be a modern rifle. We have our own ban on them. I am 99.99% certain - but too tired to look it up right now and cite my source like I normally as I am just killing time before bed. Ask Bill Wise, he's one of the legal experts on here.

If you want a SBR modern rifle, consider a Pistol Build instead. Very common with AKs and ARs and HK Clones. You register it as a handgun and do not put a stock on it (ever) and it is legal. Then the barrel can be as short as you want. There are specific rules and guidelines. You cannot turn your existing rifle into a PISTOL. It has to start its life as a pistol. Many pistol lowers and complete rifle type pistols exist out there. Virgin lowers, lowers not listed by the manafacturer as a rifle to the ATF, never DROSd as a rifle and never been built into a rifle can be built into a PISTOL. I myself own an AR pistol. Lots of fun to shoot.

You may know all that already. But since you did not specify it was a C&R rifle I figured I would point all this out just in case.

Flopper
04-22-2010, 10:49 PM
I know the permit is state wide but I understand the CLEO has to sign off on it first. Ours is Rod Hoops currently.

Assuming I was in some sort of position to believe I would get the permit I was hoping to avoid any pitfalls that may have come up lately that's all.

If the CLEO sign off were the most difficult part of the process, that would easily be bypassed by setting up a corporation or trust.

Hopefully the de facto ban on most NFA items in CA will eventually be challenged (by the PERFECT plaintiff) after a favorable McDonald decision.

Right now, don't even bother; you will NOT be issued a Dangerous Weapons permit from the DOJ.

Quiet
04-22-2010, 10:52 PM
I know the permit is state wide but I understand the CLEO has to sign off on it first. Ours is Rod Hoops currently.

Assuming I was in some sort of position to believe I would get the permit I was hoping to avoid any pitfalls that may have come up lately that's all.

There is no CLEO sign off for the Dangerous Weapons Permit.
You apply direct to the CA DOJ BOF and they approve/deny the permits.

There is a CLEO sign off for the BATFE Form 1/4.
However, if you are going the trust/corporation route, you do not need a CLEO sign off.

You need to get approved for a Dangerous Weapons Permit from CA DOJ BOF, prior to submitting a Form 1/4 to the BATFE.
Without the Dangerous Weapons Permit, BATFE will not approve/issue a tax stamp.

Application fee for a Dangerous Weapons Permit is around $372.
Yearly renewal fee for 1 "dangerous weapon" is $165.
Dangerous Weapons Permit holders also need to register the weapon, the vehicles the weapon will be transported in and the location where the weapon will be stored with CA DOJ BOF.
Dangerous Weapons Permit holders are also subjected to yearly inspection audits by the CA DOJ BOF.
Transporting the weapon in a non-registered vehicle or storing the weapon in a non-registered location is grounds for having the Dangerous Weapons Permit revoked and weapon confiscated.

GearHead
04-22-2010, 10:53 PM
SBR stands for SHORT BARRELED RIFLE, a rifle with a barrel under 16 inches. In states other than California you can apply for TAX stamp, pay for it every year, and own one. Howver, here in California it has to be C&R and cannot be a modern rifle. We have our own ban on them. I am 99.99% certain - but too tired to look it up right now and cite my source like I normally as I am just killing time before bed. Ask Bill Wise, he's one of the legal experts on here.

If you want a SBR modern rifle, consider a Pistol Build instead. Very common with AKs and ARs and HK Clones. You register it as a handgun and do not put a stock on it (ever) and it is legal. Then the barrel can be as short as you want. There are specific rules and guidelines. You cannot turn your existing rifle into a PISTOL. It has to start its life as a pistol. Many pistol lowers and complete rifle type pistols exist out there. Virgin lowers, lowers not listed by the manafacturer as a rifle to the ATF, never DROSd as a rifle and never been built into a rifle can be built into a PISTOL. I myself own an AR pistol. Lots of fun to shoot.

You may know all that already. But since you did not specify it was a C&R rifle I figured I would point all this out just in case.

Just FYI you only pay an ATF tax stamp once.

stormy_clothing
04-22-2010, 10:54 PM
Yeah I love pistols I've had a few my ar47 build they do leave me wanting though.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1924/img0496rs1.jpg

and my current draco with the offending ar15 that needs some 10.5inch loving

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3430/20100421182355.jpg

Built a bunch more for my dad and some other people but the HK416 look makes me want, lol

http://world.guns.ru/assault/hk416-1.jpg

Anyway I'm still going to try if possible

stormy_clothing
04-22-2010, 10:56 PM
I see you guys added some responses with useful info whilst I was typing thanks!

socalblue
04-22-2010, 11:58 PM
Stormy,

In a nutshell: unless you are recognized movie industry, hold a contract to manage a privatized prison facility, handle contract prisoner transport, security company for a nuclear power plant or run an armored car company the odds are virtually zero of DOJ issuing a dangerous weapons permit.

Can'thavenuthingood
04-23-2010, 6:36 AM
Stormy,

In a nutshell: unless you are recognized movie industry, hold a contract to manage a privatized prison facility, handle contract prisoner transport, security company for a nuclear power plant or run an armored car company the odds are virtually zero of DOJ issuing a dangerous weapons permit.


Naw, it used to be that way. Jerry Brown is on our side, he'll sign off on it.

Is this the same permit needed for a machine gun? Thompson type?

Vick

Flopper
04-23-2010, 8:00 AM
Naw, it used to be that way. Jerry Brown is on our side, he'll sign off on it.

Vick

Has something changed, or are you just being sarcastic?

Barkoff
04-23-2010, 8:30 AM
SBR stands for SHORT BARRELED RIFLE, a rifle with a barrel under 16 inches. In states other than California you can apply for TAX stamp, pay for it every year, and own one..

Thank you sir.

Can'thavenuthingood
04-23-2010, 9:45 AM
Has something changed, or are you just being sarcastic?

Change is in the wind so I'm thinking someone ought to make the run at getting a SBR or Machine Gun permit from the AG.
My thoughts are form a different thread discussing Jerry Brown (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=291450&page=4).
I had pretty much the same question then.
I understand money is an issue, I'm not able to do it but I can help.

Vick
----------------------------------------
So after reading this article (http://www.examiner.com/x-26553-LA-History-Examiner%7Ey2009m10d31-Jerry-Brown--The-California-Democrats-Heir-Apparent), this paragraph specifically roused my curiosity,

......A little known fact to most voters is that machine guns were legal in California up until 1975. Technically, they still are legal but one needs a permit from the California Attorney General to possess one in the state and Jerry Brown, as California's Attorney General, hasn't exactly handed out the permits as if they were candy. Contrast this with the states bordering California; Oregon, Nevada and Arizona were they are relatively easy to obtain. The hardest part about buying one in our neighboring states is coming up with the cash. The least expensive machine pistols (e.g., M11/Mac-10) cost close to $5,000 and one can look to spend $20,000 and more for a period Thompson Sub-Machine gun.

I began to wonder about how I might go about to get one for myself or Calguns.

I went to the California Attorney Generals site,
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12200.php

Found this pertaining to machine guns;
ARTICLE 3. PERMITS



12230. The Department of Justice may issue permits for the possession, manufacture, and transportation or possession, manufacture, or transportation of machineguns, upon a satisfactory showing that good cause exists for the issuance thereof to the applicant for the permit, but no permit shall be issued to a person who is under 18 years of age.

12231. Applications for permits shall be filed in writing, signed by the applicant if an individual, or by a member or officer qualified to sign if the applicant is a firm or corporation, and shall state the name, business in which engaged, business address and a full description of the use to which the firearms are to be put.
Applications and permits shall be uniform throughout the state on forms prescribed by the Department of Justice. Each applicant for a permit shall pay at the time of filing his or her application a fee determined by the Department of Justice not to exceed the application processing costs of the Department of Justice.
A permit granted pursuant to this article may be renewed one year from the date of issuance, and annually thereafter, upon the filing of a renewal application and the payment of a permit renewal fee not to exceed the application processing costs of the Department of Justice.
After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living adjustments for the department's budget.

12232. Every person, firm or corporation to whom a permit is issued shall keep it on his person or at the place where the firearms are kept. The permit shall be open to inspection by any peace officer or any other person designated by the authority issuing the permit.

12233. Permits issued in accordance with this chapter may be revoked by the issuing authority at any time when it appears that the need for the firearms has ceased or that the holder of the permit has used the firearms for purposes other than those allowed by the permit or that the holder of the permit has not exercised great care in retaining custody of any weapons possessed under the permit.

12234. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), the Department of Justice shall, for every person, firm, or corporation to whom a permit is issued pursuant to this article, annually conduct an inspection for security and safe storage purposes, and to reconcile the inventory of machine guns. (b) A person, firm, or corporation with an inventory of fewer than five devices that require any Department of Justice permit shall be subject to an inspection for security and safe storage purposes, and to reconcile inventory, once every five years, or more frequently if determined by the department.

Has Jerry Brown issued any such permits?
Has he revoked any such permits?

Has anyone applied?

As I understand this, it is a may issue type of permit with good cause. I think Calguns has a good cause as in educating the public about the California gun laws. We have a proven track record via the gun show booths success.

Several Police Departments utilize our literature for training their Police Officers.

I'd think it would also be show of good faith in the California gun owners by the Attorney General.

Flopper
04-23-2010, 10:33 AM
Change is in the wind so I'm thinking someone ought to make the run at getting a SBR or Machine Gun permit from the AG.


Yes, that is a good idea. . .

. . . but it needs to be planned out and done by the PERFECT applicant, so that if they get denied we can challenge it in court and have a huge victory.

We don't need another bad plaintiff setting us back decades.

Please everybody, for the Love of God, DON'T do this on your own.

CGF will get to this when it's feasible.

bwiese
04-23-2010, 10:35 AM
Is this the same permit needed for a machine gun? Thompson type?
Vick

Yes, SBR, SBS etc. all are under umbrella of Dangerous Weapons Permit.

Don't expect JB to go out on a limb on something like this. This crap gets resolved in the courts down the line.

Let's worry about killing Roster, differential/preferential CCW issuance, and AW bans first.

-hanko
04-23-2010, 1:10 PM
... In states other than California you can apply for TAX stamp, pay for it every year, and own one...
You pay your $200 ONCE when you submit your forms, the tax stamp comes back stuck on you paperwork.

subguns.com or titleii.com will give you more info;)

-hanko