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blkA4alb
02-26-2006, 12:06 PM
i was browsing FN's website today and i saw that their carbine bullpups, the PS90 and FS2000 are now available with 10 round magazines. is there any chance that the PS90 would be available is california? the AR-15s may have to wait a little while if it is.....:D http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/cb_home.htm

xenophobe
02-26-2006, 12:12 PM
Nope. Not California legal, and never will be.

Pulsar
02-26-2006, 12:13 PM
Just judging from the pictures I can't see any way of getting mag's permanently attached that could be loaded from the top or other places. And since it's a bullpup design there's no way we can get around the thumbhole or pistol grip.

I'd have to get my hands on one to tell ya for sure, but I just don't see any way to make it comply.

blkA4alb
02-26-2006, 12:15 PM
yea you guys are right...my excitement blinded me from seeing the reality.:mad:

double_action
02-26-2006, 12:16 PM
However, those 10 round mags would be great for the 5.7x28 upper that Rhineland Arms is making for AR lowers . . .

blkA4alb
02-26-2006, 12:23 PM
However, those 10 round mags would be great for the 5.7x28 upper that Rhineland Arms is making for AR lowers . . .
holy!:eek: that upper is awesome! but i dont see us being able to use it, even with the 10 round theres no way to pin and load it. BUT if we get the AW registration then we would be able to use it. and i WILL be getting one:) .

double_action
02-26-2006, 12:41 PM
Who's to say there's no way to pin and load those . . .;)

However, you're right, they would make more sense with a reg. lower.

saki302
02-26-2006, 1:00 PM
I have an inside source who is telling me they are CURRENTLY working on a kit to make both Cali-legal.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO PIN THE MAG. Fill the thumbhole stock, ditch the flash hider, and make overall length 30". That's IT. NO bull, no conjecture, something is in the works. That's all I can say for now.
The FS2000 is even easier- thumbhole plug and muzzle brake (1" longer). That's all. Simple, and easy to do.

And having handled one at the SHOT show, you could disable the PS90 mag release by slicing off the two tabs which you press backwards- it would then require a screwdriver to press it back to remove the mag. The thing is, there is no way to break open and top load the action, and you can't buy any replacememnt parts right now to test on, so you'll have to just wait for a de-sb23 kit. This is a LOT less gray than the AR/AK deal, since it is not and was not ever a 'named' weapon, it only needs to slide by the characteristics-based ban.

Whether the final deal goes through, and whether we get it in a reasonable amount of time are two wholly different questions. There is a nationwide shortage of the PS90's right now, so don't expect to see one here too soon; but if all goes well, do expect them sometime.

blkA4alb, start saving your pennies- but don't skip an AR for it!

-Dave

TonyM
02-26-2006, 1:02 PM
Maybe the Shoeless Ventures FAB10 and the DPMS single shot lower still have a viable future.

Hey Ted,

If you're thinking about a Fab10 or DPMS with a Rhinelands 5.7 upper, it won't work. They exect the spent brass out the open magwell of an AR lower. :(

saki302
02-26-2006, 1:08 PM
http://home.earthlink.net/~sasaki888/caP90b.jpg

I can say the design in the works for the PS90 looks better than my creation- I can't really say how, but you will like it better.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sasaki888/caok.jpg

The Rhineland upper will be good for someone with an SB23 exempt AW, but you still can only get 10 round mags for it. I'd rather have the rifle that looks and handles different if it's going to just be a toy. The FS2000 will accept all your pre-ban AR mags! :D

-Dave

blkA4alb
02-26-2006, 1:21 PM
interesting, i would like to see what kind of grip the FS2000 would have. if the thumbhole was filled in i can't see how you would hold it effectively. the P90 is so awesome despite the magazine flaw if it's dropped. theres just too many guns i need! and no money...

xenophobe
02-26-2006, 1:22 PM
On the PS90, I'd rather see the barrel extended further than the buttpad like that...


Quick photoshop of what the FS2000CA might look like. ;)

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6316/fncbfs20007xr.jpg

blkA4alb
02-26-2006, 1:25 PM
On the PS90, I'd rather see the barrel extended further than the buttpad like that...


Quick photoshop of what the FS2000CA might look like. ;)

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6316/fncbfs20007xr.jpg
i still don't see where your thumb would go...:confused:

TonyM
02-26-2006, 1:30 PM
i still don't see where your thumb would go...:confused:

Along the side, w/o a pistol grip/thumbhole it would be legal, just "different" to hold..

xenophobe
02-26-2006, 1:31 PM
i still don't see where your thumb would go...:confused:


Umm... I did say it was a QUICK photoshop.... I don't have time right now, so perhaps you could add a thumb groove?

blkA4alb
02-26-2006, 1:38 PM
Umm... I did say it was a QUICK photoshop.... I don't have time right now, so perhaps you could add a thumb groove?
sorry, i wasn't trying to imply that i was dissatisified with the picture. just curious:). if i had to choose personally i would take the PS90 over the FS2000. a little less bulky looking.

saki302
02-26-2006, 1:39 PM
Your thumb would ride up where the wider sectiopn of the receiver is. You could probably add a thumb shelf on the thumbhole plug, but remember, these are mods to make it LEGAL, not necessarily the best ergonomic design on earth.

I held both the PS90 and FS2000 without using the thumb hole at the SHOT show, and you can fire them both quite easily this way. You would shoot it with the same grip used on a heavy target rifle- pull straight back, except you don't have the little shelf to rest your thumb on.

The whole point is to have them here legally and be able to shoot them! :D If I want a more functional 'evil' rifle, I have all my pre-2000 regged AR's, and my M1A. Whole point of this venture? I don't have either of these two fine rifles yet, and the critical point is (IMO) that these molestations be reversible (even with great effort) upon the return to free America.

-Dave

Yute
02-26-2006, 2:39 PM
Oh please make a CA Legal scar rifle, please make a CA Legal scar rifle, please make a CA Legal scar rifle....

Sigh... I can dream...:rolleyes:

saki302
02-26-2006, 4:03 PM
If the SCAR pistol grip is removable (I can't remember if it was molded as 1 piece or not), and the buttstock fixable, it will be a possibility (think Robinson Arms M96). If it's a traditional gas-op design, and you can disable the gas system, think straight-pull bolt action.

I know, it makes it an impractical weapon, but at least you CAN HAVE one!! Which is ultimately what counts..

-Dave

xenophobe
02-26-2006, 4:31 PM
sorry, i wasn't trying to imply that i was dissatisified with the picture. just curious:). if i had to choose personally i would take the PS90 over the FS2000. a little less bulky looking.

Oh, I didn't imply that you were dissatisfied... I was just saying that I didn't have time... I do now, so after I eat I'll try to make a better mock up of both.

saki302
02-26-2006, 6:28 PM
You also have to remember the difference in power. The PS90 is a carbine, the FS2000 is a rifle. The 5.7 round is ballistically similar to 9mm or 9mm +P as far as energy goes, while the F200, is, well, .223. :)

I'd say, buy both :D

I'll keep the forum posted whenever I hear more and am allowed to reveal the info...

-Dave

shopkeep
02-26-2006, 7:04 PM
I have a feeling that after seeing the absolutely rabid rate of consumption for offlist AR-15 and AK-47 recievers, manufacturers and FFLs alike are taking keen notice of the California market. Not only do we pay 150% - 200% more for these items than the rest of the country, but we buy 2 to 3 times more quantity.

I expect to see all sorts of modded weaponry to flood into the state in the near future.

blkA4alb
02-26-2006, 8:17 PM
thats pretty awesome. so how many you have in stock:D? well in time we'll see what FN does

xenophobe
02-27-2006, 1:44 AM
My new photoshop CA Editions! ;)

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8072/fncbfs2000ca4kq.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7778/fncbps90ca8uv.jpg

Charliegone
02-27-2006, 1:55 AM
My new photoshop CA Editions! ;)

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8072/fncbfs2000ca4kq.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7778/fncbps90ca8uv.jpg

I'll buy that.:D

VeryCoolCat
03-02-2006, 12:30 PM
Heh, thought i'd add something before it dies and everyone gets to happy.

I was downtown recently and saw this store that had toy guns, i found a fullsize airsoft p90. I just wanted to see exactly if it would be possible. So I bought it, put some shaped styrofoam into there.

You do need somewhat thin fingers. So if you got fat fingers, it'll feel very awkward to fire.

Now the second thing I noticed. Technically the front part of the gun is a FORWARD GRIP. Although its rounded and attacked to the gun in a circular way. I think under law, they would say it has a forward grip.

Another big point, the styrofoam felt terrible. The is ergonomically designed, and it feels very smooth while being held, no sharp edges whatsoever. Unfortunately, covering this hole MIGHT make it legal but it feels so akward to fire then. There nowhere to put your thumb and your fingers rub against the fire selector.

Not 100% sure if its full size or not, but its pretty damn big and looks very well done though its not very small as everyone wants to believe. Its actually somewhat large for firearms of the similar category.

You'd be buying it for the looks and just to say you own it, rather than for the practicality of it.