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virulosity
04-22-2010, 2:57 PM
Someone has contacted me to buy a rifle I have listed in the for sale section. At first he asked to buy the rifle without going through an FFL because "he wouldn't pass the background check". I said that I cannot do that because the rifle is not C&R (and even if it was I wouldn't want to after hearing that). A week later, he asks me if I will sell the rifle to his brother (a straw purchase) so that it can be transferred to him. At this point, I am feeling pretty uncomfortable. Should I report this to some LEA? Ignore it? If I have already made a mistake by posting this, mods please delete.

Dirtbiker
04-22-2010, 2:59 PM
Report the user to the mods. We don't need that crap here.

Ten Rounder
04-22-2010, 3:25 PM
Like a HOT ROCK, don't pass GO, and don't collect $200

geeknow
04-22-2010, 3:31 PM
this is bad, all the way around.

like dirtbiker said, report this to the head janitor.

were I in your shoes, I would forward all/any relevant correspondance to kestryll...immediately.

also, like dirtbiker said...

"we dont need that crap here"

radioman
04-22-2010, 3:34 PM
I smell set up, if your gut tells you not to, don't, thats what 53 years on this planet tell me!

Robidouxs
04-22-2010, 3:39 PM
Someone has contacted me to buy a rifle I have listed in the for sale section. At first he asked to buy the rifle without going through an FFL because "he wouldn't pass the background check". I said that I cannot do that because the rifle is not C&R (and even if it was I wouldn't want to after hearing that). A week later, he asks me if I will sell the rifle to his brother (a straw purchase) so that it can be transferred to him. At this point, I am feeling pretty uncomfortable. Should I report this to some LEA? Ignore it? If I have already made a mistake by posting this, mods please delete.

Shaking head....is this guy just plain stupid for openly admitting to conspiracy to commit a felony through a straw purchase? Then again this seem just too dumb of an admission for any sane person to make.

Josh3239
04-22-2010, 3:41 PM
OUT HIM and report him. We don't need people like that here and that kind of practice is negative towards our cause and bringing that stuff here is negative to Calguns.

hk91666
04-22-2010, 3:52 PM
Sounds like the guys I encountered at the Cow Palace and the Expo wanting me to take it out in the parking lot for $50 more. Interestingly enough they had boot hair cuts and smelled like DOJ guys. I didn't do it of course.

LazyBoy
04-22-2010, 4:04 PM
Don't do it, smells like a set up. And even if it wasn't a set up I still wouldn't do it.

Cokebottle
04-22-2010, 4:08 PM
Should I report this to some LEA? Ignore it? If I have already made a mistake by posting this, mods please delete.
Reporting to LEA won't do anything.
Report him to the mods and they'll swat his account.
Don't even consider dealing with him... some users may be DOJ shills trolling for arrests and ways to discredit Calguns.

radioman
04-22-2010, 4:10 PM
Shaking head....is this guy just plain stupid for openly admitting to conspiracy to commit a felony through a straw purchase? Then again this seem just too dumb of an admission for any sane person to make.

My take on this is, that a young person is looking for help, to do the right thing.

todd2968
04-22-2010, 7:56 PM
Wow +3 on set up.

If it is not a trap then it is at least a stupid move to knowingly break the law, even if this guy isn't setting you up You might/are be placing a weapon in the hands of a felon! or Illegal immigrant even resident aliens can buy a gun

jmlivingston
04-22-2010, 7:59 PM
Forward me any messages you may have on this via PM.

John

B Strong
04-22-2010, 8:14 PM
Someone has contacted me to buy a rifle I have listed in the for sale section. At first he asked to buy the rifle without going through an FFL because "he wouldn't pass the background check". I said that I cannot do that because the rifle is not C&R (and even if it was I wouldn't want to after hearing that). A week later, he asks me if I will sell the rifle to his brother (a straw purchase) so that it can be transferred to him. At this point, I am feeling pretty uncomfortable. Should I report this to some LEA? Ignore it? If I have already made a mistake by posting this, mods please delete.


It would be a no-go for me.

Even if it's not a sting the whole deal stinks.

neuron
04-22-2010, 8:32 PM
Wow +3 on set up.

If it is not a trap then it is at least a stupid move to knowingly break the law, even if this guy isn't setting you up You might/are be placing a weapon in the hands of a felon! or Illegal immigrant even resident aliens can buy a gun

+1. The "buyer," who has admitted to being unable to pass a background check is either: 1) a criminal who's trying to purchase a gun illegally from you; 2) a nutcase; or 3) a LEO (probably fed) or an "informant" who's trying to entrap you into doing an illegal gun transfer. And if he's #3, he's probably fishing on CGN to discredit us. If you were foolish enough to do what he wants you to do, CGN could be portrayed as encouraging criminal behavior.

So...1) Don't do what he wants you to do; 2) Print out all correspondence he's sent you; 3) Report him to CGN moderators (you've already done that via your posts here); and, 4) Consider reporting him to LEA's.

IF it turns out that this "buyer" is a trolling LE agent/informer who was engaged in a "set up" CGN should raise Holy Hell very publicly, IMHO.

virulosity
04-22-2010, 8:40 PM
I never had the intention to sell to this person from the first hint that they would not do the transfer through an FFL. My question was whether or not the authorities should be involved. I don't see how I am at fault here?

Shaking head....is this guy just plain stupid for openly admitting to conspiracy to commit a felony through a straw purchase? Then again this seem just too dumb of an admission for any sane person to make.

HowardW56
04-22-2010, 9:01 PM
I never had the intention to sell to this person from the first hint that they would not do the transfer through an FFL. My question was whether or not the authorities should be involved. I don't see how I am at fault here?

If you didn't do the deal, you aren't at fault...

The law is what it is, we may not like it but anyone who doesn't follow it is foolish... The stakes are too high...

Mstrty
04-22-2010, 9:14 PM
Sounds like Dateline "To Catch a Criminal" Its probably a cop or anti gun news program IMO. Give it to the mods. Just think what a transaction like that would do to this board if it is a sting. Even worse what it would do to society if its a criminal.

Window_Seat
04-22-2010, 9:19 PM
This is most definitely a set up. They are here trolling for arrests, and the news media is just slobbering for this to happen.

ETA: Can we rate users without them having made purchases? Maybe you can rate their accounts as negative if it's permitted.

Erik.

evidens83
04-22-2010, 10:40 PM
Notify the mods immediately! Let me guess, this potential "buyer" is a noob too huh?? Either a set-up or just an ignorant person, doesn't matter because he's an idiot.

m1aowner
04-23-2010, 1:37 AM
So whatcha selling? :)

EBWhite
04-23-2010, 1:57 AM
Don't get on the high horse like some and just leave the dude alone. He is a criminal, he will get it somewhere else like all criminals do. Just dont be the one that sells to him!

Lateralus
04-23-2010, 2:14 AM
What if:

It was LEO? Would this be legal or dismissal due to entrapment? Say an undercover agent told you "It's OK, it's legal", would that stand up in court?

santacruzstefan
04-23-2010, 2:36 AM
What if:

It was LEO? Would this be legal or dismissal due to entrapment? Say an undercover agent told you "It's OK, it's legal", would that stand up in court?

I just read the wikipedia article on entrapment, and I think if you know that its illegal, then it isn't entrapment. Although, if you don't have a history of breaking the law, and the LEO continued insisting on having you sell them the gun, or perhaps threatened you if you didn't sell it to them, it might be considered entrapment. But for a long time, entrapment wasn't even considered a valid defense. Today, its different, but there are a couple of different forms. Interesting hypothetical though.

tenpercentfirearms
04-23-2010, 6:25 AM
Simply tell him you can't sell it to him or anyone he knows. Report his user name to Kestryll. It is that simple.

OleCuss
04-23-2010, 6:33 AM
Kudos to the OP for doing the right thing. Whether it is an LEA working the system or a criminal trying to buy a firearm - it was never going to happen.

Now that it has been reported to the moderators I'm confident that the right rear ends will be kicked to the extent possible!

Curtis
04-23-2010, 10:09 AM
I had a similar situation. Someone on the site said they were looking for a revolver for their mom. After trading an e-mail or two, he suggested I just mail the gun to him. I never responded. He followed up several time, even called my office (I forgot to delete my signature before hitting send). I considered posting/outing him, but I was a very young member and didn't want to cause issues.

I would pass on the info to the mods. Although it would be interesting to be involved in some type of sting with the police.

Good luck with your sale.

N6ATF
04-23-2010, 10:48 AM
Place your bets, IP belonging to a government agency:
Yes
No

Cokebottle
04-23-2010, 11:56 AM
What if:

It was LEO? Would this be legal or dismissal due to entrapment? Say an undercover agent told you "It's OK, it's legal", would that stand up in court?
It would be legal.
Entrapment is when the cop puts the idea of committing the crime into the mind of the target.
In this case, the buyer was completely up-front and a bit too complete with information...
"Can we avoid an FFL because I won't pass background?"
"Can you sell to my brother?"

I really suspect this is a cop... if I were worried about background, I'd say something like "Can we avoid an FFL because I don't want the man knowing about my guns? We can cash and carry this and nobody will know except us"
Even that's suspicious... but at least it's not admitting to being a prohibited person.

Guys... this kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME on Calguns, and the mods have always asked us to report those users who attempt it. This is a high-profile forum in LEO/DOJ/BATF circles and any criminal activity that can be linked to CGN would not be good for our credibility.
This isn't Arfcom or 1911org... this is CGN, and though they are separate entities, many attach CGN to CGF.

obeygiant
04-23-2010, 12:18 PM
Place your bets, IP belonging to a government agency:
Yes
No

I'd vote Yes, especially after seeing a similar thing happen on CL not too long ago.

Bray556
04-23-2010, 12:30 PM
This is ridiculous. Of course you don't sell to the guy.

KylaGWolf
04-23-2010, 1:09 PM
What if:

It was LEO? Would this be legal or dismissal due to entrapment? Say an undercover agent told you "It's OK, it's legal", would that stand up in court?

It would only be entrapment if it is something they got you to do that you normally wouldn't do. It would be hard to argue if they did do the sale because then it could be said he knew the guy was off limits and sold to his brother therefore he would do it.

To the OP don't do the sale. Report to the mods. I saw in your post you said you wouldn't sell to him good for you. Just goes to show that even here on Calguns we have riffraff.

EOD3
04-23-2010, 1:32 PM
My take on this is, that a young person is looking for help, to do the right thing.

I think Robidouxs is talking about the "dirtbag buyer", not the original poster. .02

IMHO, the dirtbag is a, well, dirtbag and should be treated that way.

Rat him out!

yelohamr
04-23-2010, 2:48 PM
Probably a Brady Campaigner with latent gun ownership tendencies and wants no paper trail.

galekowitz
04-23-2010, 9:52 PM
The worst setup ever. Maybe there should be some kind of end user agreement that has to be signed admonishing sellers and buyers before they can post. If the OP was anything but above board (which he is way above board) the ramifications would be bad for not only the seller but for Calguns. They would spin it so fast Lois Lane would come back up out the crack making Calguns look like a Cambodian black market where anything goes for the right price. Good for Virolosity. Keep your head on a swivel.

Tarn_Helm
04-24-2010, 7:20 PM
Sounds like Dateline "To Catch a Criminal" Its probably a cop or anti gun news program IMO. Give it to the mods. Just think what a transaction like that would do to this board if it is a sting. Even worse what it would do to society if its a criminal.

Yeah, this whole thing sounds totally screwy.

Someone is trying to bring down this forum and do a disservice here to all the law abiding practitioners of the right to keep and bear arms for purposes of lawful self-defense.

What a scumbag.

I hope he gets banned for life.

Colt-45
04-24-2010, 7:32 PM
It's most likely someone attempting to use you so they can later say in the media that "calguns is an easy place to illegally get guns" or something like that. They probably have hidden cameras and everything just waiting for the encounter.

Don't do it. Even if he was the first person to say I'll take it, make this an exception.

big red
04-24-2010, 7:33 PM
Notify the mods, follow their advice, and don't worry about it. The dude can find plenty of stolen guns on the streets if he really wants one. Why admit he can't do it legally, offer a straw purchase deal, and risk being busted in a sting operation when he can go buy from a gun show or on the street without much problem? Sounds like a set up to me and I don't think you want your fifteen minutes of fame this way.

OleCuss
04-24-2010, 7:44 PM
Guys, please note that the OP will not sell to the cretin who wanted to buy it. His post is about how to properly report the situation.

EOD3
04-24-2010, 9:33 PM
http://www.mamapop.com/mamapop/images/2009/03/23/its_a_trap.jpg

This guy seems to be openly admitting that he is ineligible to own a firearm; that's pretty stupid even for a criminal. I'd guess it's a cop.

I'm betting you didn't mean that the way it sounded. You DON'T want Retired to come over here and smack you on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper. :rolleyes:

neuron
04-26-2010, 9:53 PM
It's most likely someone attempting to use you so they can later say in the media that "calguns is an easy place to illegally get guns" or something like that. They probably have hidden cameras and everything just waiting for the encounter.


All the more reason to turn the tables on this "buyer" by ID'ing him and reporting him to LE...because he has committed a crime by attempting to purchase a gun illegally. If, as is likely, he turns out to be a LE, news media, or Brady Buncher type of troll (as opposed to just a garden variety criminal), CGN should make a very public Big Deal about it. Making a Big Deal about this sort of crap would make us look good in the court of public opinion. :43:

neuron
04-26-2010, 9:57 PM
All the more reason to turn the tables on this "buyer" by ID'ing him and reporting him to LE...because he has committed a crime by attempting to purchase a gun illegally. If, as is likely, he turns out to be a LE, news media, or Brady Buncher type of troll (as opposed to just a garden variety criminal), CGN should make a very public Big Deal about it. Making a Big Deal about this sort of crap would make us look good in the court of public opinion. :43:

And if the troll is some Brady Buncher or anti-SA "investigative reporter," wouldn't it be wonderful to have them charged with a gun crime? Go for it CGN moderators!!:43:

Nor-Cal
04-26-2010, 10:02 PM
Sounds like a trap and someone trying to ruin calguns reputation, this is not how we do here on cal guns we are law abiding citizens!

killmime1234
04-26-2010, 10:12 PM
Oh, don't worry. I'm sure it's just someone wanting to commit a harmless felony. ;) I mean who hasn't? Am I right?

In all seriousness, report everything you know about him. It's bad enough that people like that taint Calguns, let alone the reputation California's gunowners in general.

Ducman
04-26-2010, 10:24 PM
why protect the criminal? should out him out !

leelaw
04-26-2010, 10:27 PM
Already got a Moderator on it.