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Cobrafreak
04-22-2010, 10:46 AM
I am angry that there are so many in local CA Government that are excited and upbeat about taking away gun rights, rights that will only affect law abiding citizens. I really feel like a second class citizen in CA. Calguns could almost have a section on "what anti-gun laws passed today". Either CA will one day "wake up" and realize they have been depriving Constitutional rights to Law Abiding citizens (Hardly), or this legal war we are in is going to stretch for years and years, or I'm just going to pack and move to AZ. If we get SCOTUS to incorporate, we will still have legal battles for years just to get to where some States have been since the National AWB sun-setted. Sorry for the venting. I am just tired of it all. Really, is there any hope of a free CA as far as we are concerned or will they just ignore SCOTUS decision and invent new ways of stifling Us?

vantec08
04-22-2010, 10:51 AM
Depends on the make-up of SCOTUS, and with the punk-in-chief looking at 2 and possibly 3 appointments, it doesnt look promising. Like you say, even if McDonald seems to come down clean, there will be many more challenges, most of which will take time - - time he needs to stack the court.

Full Clip
04-22-2010, 10:54 AM
This is just one reason why I'm thinking about moving out of our totally dysfunctional state.

2009_gunner
04-22-2010, 11:02 AM
I agree completely.

I've been thinking of moving to Washington. It seems CA will always be the lowest rung on the ladder of rights.

In Washington, you can own a silencer, >10round mag, no bullet button, no roster, as many guns/per month as you want, no online ammo ban, no registration, no 50cal ban, etc. It would be nice to live in freedom, and contribute to the coffers of Calguns from afar....

The added bonus is that Washington has no state income tax. But I've read they're just now trying to change that http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9F7JS902.htm gah!

Then again, we could stay here, and try to annoy the gun grabbers as much as possible. I've been thinking of ways to do that more than ever.

One way could be by organizing range events for elementary school students and after teaching them how to shoot safely, illustrating the absurdity of California laws. One event could be on outlawing open carry while permitting concealed carry. Show them that one method would get mommy & daddy in trouble, and ask the kids why that should be... another event could be on silencers, and then one one "hi-cap" mags... *that* would really annoy the gun grabbers.

Legasat
04-22-2010, 11:06 AM
Moving for me, has become a contingency plan in case things don't work out well.

Untamed1972
04-22-2010, 11:10 AM
If it weren't for the fact that I'm trapped here by unsellable real estate I'd seriously consider it too.

big red
04-22-2010, 11:15 AM
I know I am going to be an outlaw in my own state but I can't give up the fight yet. I thought the UOC movement was important because it showed someone was willing to exercise a right. Kind of like that cartoon of the mouse giving the owl the one finger salute as the owl comes in on him with talons showing. did the movement start this assembly bill fight? I honestly think that was in the hopper before Starbucks and people walking around with unloaded guns. Most informal citizen polls are against this assembly bill almost 3 to 1. The bottom line is not enough people go to the polls to throw these politicians out but we will sit around the coffee and complain about them. We have time to complain but not time enough to vote. You gave these leeches control and most polls of average citizens show they do not agree with what is going on in the capitol but will you take control back? Will you elect that independent who is the neighborhood handyman or go with the slick campaign of the party chosen candidate? Will you vote out the incumbent every time to show them that their jobs are not secure just because they follow party lines instead of looking out for the people they represent? Will you dump a politican who has been very good to you, but not to everyone else, for the good of the area you live in? It is your state so how do you want to live and how willing are you to work to change it. The easiest way is in the ballot box. your the incumbent then your gone. If there is an independent running party favorites lose. Easiest way to change things with no rallies, no threats, no contributions. your forefathers gave you the weapon. now use it to defend yourself. We took gray davis down with a recall and should have done the same with Arnie baby.

artherd
04-22-2010, 11:16 AM
will they just ignore SCOTUS decision ?
Thankfully they lack that ability.

When we stay and win here, in California, we win everywhere by setting precedent.

EscapeFromCal
04-22-2010, 11:16 AM
Moved..........................Not proud of it, just had to protect my sanity. Calguns is the only shinning light I have seen in years and I have sent money in the past and will continue to do so. Just a note from the other side, my heart beats a steady beat and I only drink to enhance my night, not kill my frustration. It's a shame, I love the state of California.;)


...... Besides I can have a range and a motocross track and the only thing my neighbors ask is: "when can we come over?".

TexasBulldog
04-22-2010, 11:22 AM
I moved from socal to tx last september. Other then sometimes missing the Mountains or weather. Texas is just amazing. I love the fact that i don't have big brother holding my hand all day telling me what i can and can not do. I didn't move BECAUSE of gun rights, but it was part of the tipping point.

The company i work for is a Multi Billion dollar company. It couldn't keep being profitable by staying in CA. Something CA has a hard time understanding. So Texas took them in with open arms and it has benefited me a whole lot.

Window_Seat
04-22-2010, 11:25 AM
I'm planning on moving to either WA or OR. I am CPL/CHLed in both states, and I'm so impressed with the fact that both free states are allowing OOSers to exercise their rights that I feel it's only the right thing to do. As far as WA and their initiative to tax the "wealthy", it looks nice on paper, but it's a precursor to taxation for everyone across the board. It has to be voted down because of that.

Erik

windrider
04-22-2010, 11:31 AM
I think California is way past the tipping point. As of right now if all anti-gun politicians were suddenly gone (please come true) it would still take a very very very long time before were are even close to a state like Arizona. So in my eyes right now, on the current path that everything is on, california will never recognize any right to bear arms. We would have to get the entire country behind us practically rioting against gun control to get any sort of right to bear arms. Or something that would override california law like the D.C. hand gun case. But if we all leave, we lose.

TexasBulldog
04-22-2010, 11:38 AM
it would still take a very very very long time before were are even close to a state like Arizona.

don't worry about that. Baby steps. Im in Texas and it will take a damn long time to get the rights of Arizona!

audiophil2
04-22-2010, 11:53 AM
I'm in Arizona and it will take a long time to get the rights of...oh, nevermind.

big red
04-22-2010, 12:01 PM
On another thread there is a discussion/debate/agrument about using our own videos on the internet to get our message across. The auther has some very good ideas and maybe it would not hurt to take a look if you have not already done so. It might be our best chance of putting something on the fast track and really upsetting our opponents. Take a look at the thread "personal" by southwest chuck.

rjf
04-22-2010, 12:05 PM
We live in interesting times. This state is about to implode due to lack of money and promises to pay. It's ok to feed the bear, just don't run out of food. Same for leachers, don't run out of handouts or they will burn their and your stuff. The politicians will not and can not fix this. Ca needs to collapse spectactularly before we can start rebuilding this once great state. We do not need or want Federal help.

PatriotnMore
04-22-2010, 12:18 PM
Any collapse, of any kind will be meaningless, if it is re-built by the same voting population, leadership, and mentality which brought us here.

We live in interesting times. This state is about to implode due to lack of money and promises to pay. It's ok to feed the bear, just don't run out of food. Same for leachers, don't run out of handouts or they will burn their and your stuff. The politicians will not and can not fix this. Ca needs to collapse spectactularly before we can start rebuilding this once great state. We do not need or want Federal help.

Hogxtz
04-22-2010, 12:22 PM
I'm in Arizona and it will take a long time to get the rights of...oh, nevermind.

Now that was just down right mean!

Havoc70
04-22-2010, 12:23 PM
I may have a very interesting job opportunity in Louisiana. Talk about a state that gets it:


Loaded Open Carry without a permit
Honors all non-residency out of state permits (i.e. Florida non-resident, Utah non-resident)
Louisiana's own CCW policy is very straightforward; pay the fee, take the class, get the piece of paper
Your car is considered an extension of the home, so you can conceal a firearm in your car without a permit.
You can own ANY type of firearm (permit required for machine guns, etc)


And the job itself is somewhat dangerous, but right up my alley as a computer geek: setting up microwave WAN connections on oil rigs. Commuting to work by helicopter doesn't suck. Oil rigs exploding, though, does, but ehn, no risk, no reward.

k1dude
04-22-2010, 12:24 PM
Don't be depressed. We're on the verge of some good things.

The insanity in Washington will follow you wherever you go. Leaving California doesn't help with that.

McDonald may give us lots of freedoms we could never have imagined.

If you leave, you just make us even more vulnerable without your vote. There's already too many blithering liberals, even on this site. We don't need to lose more level headed people with common sense. If you took all the people with common sense that have fled this state the past 20 years, we would have one helluva solid and formidible voting block. Instead, we steadily get weaker through attrition.

Fight the good fight here. Stand your ground. If we don't stop it here, it will slowly creep throughout the rest of the country like a cancer.

greasemonkey
04-22-2010, 12:24 PM
I prefer to stay here and swim upstream; yeah, sometimes I get upset about the way things are going but if I don't do all I can, it's exponentially more difficult for the guy 'next in line' behind me. It doesn't bother me to stay here and get involved...then again, I'm a bit younger than some of you and I'm not quite ready to just kick back and relax.

I don't see California as the bottom rung but as setting precedent. Our terrible condition here should serve as a warning to the other states and you guys that have moved to a free state, I think, are obligated to make sure you take a look back in CA's history and make sure the same mistakes aren't being made wherever you are.

SixtyDashOne
04-22-2010, 12:45 PM
I was only planning on being here temporarily anyway (after moving down from Oregon), but after getting a load of all the outlandish gun laws down here, I am pretty much ready right now to GTFO myself. I actually pretty much had my mind made up when I found out about the attempt to ban online ammo sales. That's about the biggest load of crap I've ever heard of. And the roster is another one. You're telling me that hundreds of guns that people in 49 other states own and use every day without mishaps, are not safe enough for CA? Is there something in the air down here that makes them less safe here than they are everywhere else? What a joke. And I won't even get myself started on CCW, or lack thereof.

Furthermore, it's ridiculous to me, that by simply moving down here and bringing all my guns and whatnot with me, keeping in mind that everything was lawfully acquired in another state, that I could go from law abiding citizen to criminal, the instant I cross the border. There is something seriously wrong with that.

I'm still the same person down here that I was up there. My moral character does not suddenly change when I cross the state line. I do not suddenly become less trustworthy, or bring any criminal intent with me when there was none to begin with. Yet down here the law abiding citizens are treated like a bunch of criminals that can't be trusted further than they can be thrown. The 10 day "cooling off period" is a good example of that. They're telling you that they don't trust you enough to not go shoot up a school or a mall on your way home from the gun shop. I honestly do feel almost like I'm in jail down here, or on some sort of probation or something, compared to the freedoms that I had in Oregon. Sorry, I don't like to read this section much because all it does is piss me off, but I felt like I had to rant here for a moment.

PatriotnMore
04-22-2010, 1:02 PM
Yes, we have a serious case of stupidity.

You would really have to live here to see the change from within. I am only old enough to witness it from the eyes of a child in the 60s, but it's my belief beyond the great weather, the free love, drop in and tune out crowd flocked here by the truck load, then raised their families here.

That's just one of the problems. Add no meaningful border control, a whole other set of cultural and political problems have taken over.

Of course, these are all my humble opinions. The reality is, the problems required to fix this state are so divisive, I really do not see a meaningful fix from our current demographics, and voter mentality. In my opinion the best you can do if you want to stay is ride the wave, and hope for the best.

I am 48 and have been politically active in this state since I was old enough to vote. My conservative values, traditions, and patriotism is not shared by the majority, I know I am the minority, and have been, and will continue to be for as long as I can picture.

You will find some relief from the liberalism here, and some like thinkers, but a good percentage of the posters here are an accurate representation of the demographics of the State. Many have become fed up, and left, and I cannot blame them.

I was only planning on being here temporarily anyway (after moving down from Oregon), but after getting a load of all the outlandish gun laws down here, I am pretty much ready right now to GTFO myself. I actually pretty much had my mind made up when I found out about the attempt to ban online ammo sales. That's about the biggest load of crap I've ever heard of. And the roster is another one. You're telling me that hundreds of guns that people in 49 other states own and use every day without mishaps, are not safe enough for CA? Is there something in the air down here that makes them less safe here than they are everywhere else? What a joke. And I won't even get myself started on CCW, or lack thereof.

Furthermore, it's ridiculous to me, that by simply moving down here and bringing all my guns and whatnot with me, keeping in mind that everything was lawfully acquired in another state, that I could go from law abiding citizen to criminal, the instant I cross the border. There is something seriously wrong with that.

I'm still the same person down here that I was up there. My moral character does not suddenly change when I cross the state line. I do not suddenly become less trustworthy, or bring any criminal intent with me when there was none to begin with. Yet down here the law abiding citizens are treated like a bunch of criminals that can't be trusted further than they can be thrown. I honestly do feel almost like I'm in jail down here, or on some sort of probation or something, compared to the freedoms that I had in Oregon. Sorry, I don't like to read this section much because all it does is piss me off, but I felt like I had to rant here for a moment.

wildhawker
04-22-2010, 1:08 PM
In Washington, you can own a silencer, >10round mag, no bullet button, no roster, as many guns/per month as you want, no online ammo ban, no registration, no 50cal ban, etc. It would be nice to live in freedom, and contribute to the coffers of Calguns from afar....

You can own a suppressor but you can't use it.

For now.

Note that WA is an interesting place with about half of the population in the Seattle/King Co. metro area. Most of the state remains gun friendly but there is a vocal anti-gun component on the west coast.

Legasat
04-22-2010, 1:11 PM
We live in interesting times. This state is about to implode due to lack of money and promises to pay. The politicians will not and can not fix this. Ca needs to collapse spectactularly before we can start rebuilding this once great state. We do not need or want Federal help.

This is what scares me more than anything. We are $150B in debt, with $25B more this coming year, and god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. I will not stay to pay 20% or more in State taxes, I don't care how much I like it here. And I fear, that is where it is headed.

wheels
04-22-2010, 3:29 PM
I looked hard at several western states last year when I was looking at setting up residency in another state. WA and Oregon are both nice states, but I worry that the liberals are getting a stranglehold and could continue their progress inch by inch. Dropped anchor in Idaho, now to just get rid of the property in CA.

thebronze
04-22-2010, 3:37 PM
I may have a very interesting job opportunity in Louisiana. Talk about a state that gets it:


Loaded Open Carry without a permit
Honors all non-residency out of state permits (i.e. Florida non-resident, Utah non-resident)
Louisiana's own CCW policy is very straightforward; pay the fee, take the class, get the piece of paper
Your car is considered an extension of the home, so you can conceal a firearm in your car without a permit.
You can own ANY type of firearm (permit required for machine guns, etc)


And the job itself is somewhat dangerous, but right up my alley as a computer geek: setting up microwave WAN connections on oil rigs. Commuting to work by helicopter doesn't suck. Oil rigs exploding, though, does, but ehn, no risk, no reward.

Do it! Get to a Free State while you have the opportunity. I'd certainly do it if I could!

misterjake
04-22-2010, 3:45 PM
You are witnessing change. Not necessiarily what you want to change but that's all it is.

You of course know things have to get much much worse before things get better. We're too stupid as a state to connect the dots, well most of us.

Bascially, they have to have it their way in order for things to fail. The faster they push for their laws, the faster the system will fail.

As a social studies teacher I'll be taking notes. :)

big red
04-22-2010, 3:51 PM
I went to Colorado 20 years ago and still have my place there but I came back to fight for a state I love. I have never missed a vote since I was eighteen and even got my ballot in the military. Liberals bribed the welfare people for their votes with free services, housing, and food that is often better than what many hard working californians can afford for themselves and their children. And yet the tax paying working class Californians are expected to pick up the tab. The politicans who give them selves all sorts of perks including full retirement after eight (Imagine that) years in office have indebted our children and grandchildren with that bill. Where will the politicans be? Living in another state collecting their full benefits. The government is not going to give you your rights back. You are going to have to take them back. Are you going to do it at the ballot box or the cartridge box as a last resort? But if you wait until the latter, the government is going to declare martial law and guess who is going to come knocking at your door for your gun? An unarmed population is an enslaved population. But then the nay sayers are going to say we are crying "wolf" because the courts appointed by the government are going to save us. When was the last time you voted for a state judge, an appeals judge, or the surpeme court judges? Your rights were stripped from you long before you even realized what was going on including critical voting rights on who should be a judge.

ned946
04-22-2010, 3:52 PM
I am angry that there are so many in local CA Government that are excited and upbeat about taking away gun rights, rights that will only affect law abiding citizens. I really feel like a second class citizen in CA. Calguns could almost have a section on "what anti-gun laws passed today". Either CA will one day "wake up" and realize they have been depriving Constitutional rights to Law Abiding citizens (Hardly), or this legal war we are in is going to stretch for years and years, or I'm just going to pack and move to AZ. If we get SCOTUS to incorporate, we will still have legal battles for years just to get to where some States have been since the National AWB sun-setted. Sorry for the venting. I am just tired of it all. Really, is there any hope of a free CA as far as we are concerned or will they just ignore SCOTUS decision and invent new ways of stifling Us?

Agreed. AZ's on my radar too.

misterjake
04-22-2010, 3:55 PM
Agreed. AZ's on my radar too.

They want you to leave. If they were reading your response they'd say, "Good! Go!"


We can't let them be right can we?

Ding126
04-22-2010, 4:05 PM
I've been in CA most of my life...and 4yrs ago moved to AZ...The house of our dreams, on a golf course and the gun freedom I always heard about..It was very eye opening to live in a " free state " Well 6 months ago we moved back to Ca and I have to admit I do miss AZ for some reasons..but since my life includes guns and does not revolve around guns I am able to bare the poor laws currently on the books. I have bouts of frustration everytime a new law is pending or passes but I have to be optimistic in the hopes CA will change. I get strength through Calguns and the comments from Gene, BillW & all the parties involved in fighting to keep the 2nd A alive in Ca

I

kakpataka
04-22-2010, 4:10 PM
I've been in CA most of my life...and 4yrs ago moved to AZ...The house of our dreams, on a golf course and the gun freedom I always heard about..It was very eye opening to live in a " free state " Well 6 months ago we moved back to Ca and I have to admit I do miss AZ for some reasons..but since my life includes guns and does not revolve around guns I am able to bare the poor laws currently on the books. I have bouts of frustration everytime a new law is pending or passes but I have to be optimistic in the hopes CA will change. I get strength through Calguns and the comments from Gene, BillW & all the parties involved in fighting to keep the 2nd A alive in Ca

I

True that. I moved to Plano TX last October. it is indeed free & we are faring just fine but...........................I now miss taking a short drive to Tahoe, reno, SF, Bay area, the ocean, Eldorado forest & BLM land up there!
I dont thing things will get better in CA. Sorry for being pessimistic!

kcbrown
04-22-2010, 4:14 PM
Any collapse, of any kind will be meaningless, if it is re-built by the same voting population, leadership, and mentality which brought us here.

The voting population and leadership in question don't have a clue how to build anything. I mean, look at the state of affairs here. We can't even build any new power plants. That "water shortage" everyone keeps harping upon is trivial to solve: we're right next to a huge body of water, so all we need to do is build desalination plants off the coast. But the "leaders" and those who vote them into office won't stand for such a thing. They'd rather die of thirst, it seems.

I'm skeptical of their ability to do anything constructive.

Ding126
04-22-2010, 4:21 PM
True that. I moved to Plano TX last October. it is indeed free & we are faring just fine but...........................I now miss taking a short drive to Tahoe, reno, SF, Bay area, the ocean, Eldorado forest & BLM land up there!
I dont thing things will get better in CA. Sorry for being pessimistic!

While we were in AZ..everytime we saw shows on cooking & traveling and they were usually about Napa, bay area or the Sierra...we always looked at each other and talked about how we missed so many things in Ca...The stores, the restaurants, the clothing and the fresh produce..until you leave Ca. you don't appreciate what it offered or what was in your back yard..I think I missed the ocean the most.

Ca in now my home and I'm glad to be back ( most of the time )

chuckdc
04-22-2010, 4:24 PM
I looked hard at several western states last year when I was looking at setting up residency in another state. WA and Oregon are both nice states, but I worry that the liberals are getting a stranglehold and could continue their progress inch by inch. Dropped anchor in Idaho, now to just get rid of the property in CA.

If we can get enough "good" Californians to move there, it could easily overmatch the anti-gun twacks that have already moved from here to there. That's the problem with some of the attitude I've met up in OR on my travels there. I may be a Californian and all, that doesn't mean I think OR or WA should BECOME CA. Far from it. I would move there and be the voice crying to NOT follow the lead of CA. Avoid it like the plague.

Scratch705
04-22-2010, 4:24 PM
The voting population and leadership in question don't have a clue how to build anything. I mean, look at the state of affairs here. We can't even build any new power plants. That "water shortage" everyone keeps harping upon is trivial to solve: we're right next to a huge body of water, so all we need to do is build desalination plants off the coast. But the "leaders" and those who vote them into office won't stand for such a thing. They'd rather die of thirst, it seems.

I'm skeptical of their ability to do anything constructive.

desalination plants are very expensive, with low returns. the only country employing it in a mass scale is kuwait and other OPEC countries. cause they can afford it with all the oil they sell to us.

want to help water shortage? vote to get rid of these stupid city ordinances that demands homeowners to keep green lawns. SoCal is a desert, we need to grow plants that is for desert. not palm trees, bermuda grasses, elm trees etc. Las Vegas at least got it right by making homeowners there grow only plants that is desert native. sure it looks a bit bland, but they save thousands if not millions in gallons of water wasted watering "grass"

kakpataka
04-22-2010, 4:26 PM
While we were in AZ..everytime we saw shows on cooking & traveling and they were usually about Napa, bay area or the Sierra...we always looked at each other and talked about how we missed so many things in Ca...The stores, the restaurants, the clothing and the fresh produce..until you leave Ca. you don't appreciate what it offered or what was in your back yard..I think I missed the ocean the most.

Ca in now my home and I'm glad to be back ( most of the time )

I know exactly what you mean.

big red
04-22-2010, 4:31 PM
California is screwed up and we let get this way by not being more watchful at the ballot box. But you do not abandon it in its time of need or your friends. We need to stay and fight to get our rights back and the freedoms everyone else enjoys in other states. We have turned over our responsibilities to teach our kids to the state and we have forgotten how to fight and say no. Demand that our politicans listen to us and that they make the working class not the welfare class their number one priority. Welfare has gone to the voting booth and taken over the government. Now we need to take it back. I would live better if I moved to my place in colorado but I refuse to be run out of my home.

Colt-45
04-22-2010, 4:42 PM
Like some of you have implied guns aren't everything in life, well ok but what scares me the most about this state is how fast liberal policy is brought up and passed. A clear example is that whole UOC deal, weather you agree with UOC or not it was brought down real quick even though NOBODY WAS EVER KILLED BY UOC.

I never open carried but since it was a right I have no problem with people exercising that right. To me it's very ridiculous and immature that throughout this whole UOC thing hippies would call the cops because they saw a decent law-abiding male or female with gun on their person. ":willy_nilly::shock:OMG A GUN:willy_nilly:!"

I was born and raised in this state(Bay Area) BUT because of my political views and preferences I feel like an outsider. Living in Central Valley it isn't as bad as the Bay Area but our state is represented at the federal level and run at the state level by ignorant scum that don't care and alienate a huge amount of their citizens. I feel very disappointed to say the least.

msand951
04-22-2010, 4:46 PM
Well I feel sort of the same way. Arizona would be nice. But i just got a house a year ago. So im stuck here. I love the weather, Im about 1 1/2 hour away from the ocean to fish and 4 lakes around me. But I think CA will only get worst and there is no hope on gun laws. I lost faith. But I will try to do my part by voting im hoping we can figure out who and what we should vote for and thats what i will do. I was about to not even vote now cause its all BS they feed us. So you guys have any recommendations on any of the puppets on the list and i will vote.:shrug: This way my vote wont go to waste. We R F!@ked

Ding126
04-22-2010, 5:07 PM
Let me just say..we want all the things of other states only because we can't have it here. There has to be a balance of sorts.

By my second yr in Az I stopped CCW everywhere I went because at the time it was illegal to CCW where alcohol is served..so I was stuck between leaving it my car or carrying illegally in the resauarant...most of the time I was illegal... I got tired of the extra weight of magazines & weapon. I got tired and making sure my equipment wasn't telegraphing / printing through my cloths...wearing a jacket in AZ can look pretty strange some of the time...I guess it just got old...same as having a MP5..it was great...13k dollars great....then the shoots became more and more expensive..the weapon sat more & more in the safe....and then you realize you have 13k+ sitting around...the newness wore off after the 3rd yr. Sold It..

If I could have a normal AR without the BB & use standard mags..I would be extremly happy and CCW and the roster would just be icing on my cake..I don't need a full auto w/ can ( silencer ) I just want what everyone in a normal state has...NFA stuff is fun but isn't as thrilling to me.

Barkoff
04-22-2010, 5:38 PM
OK, here are some feel good facts that may cheer some of you up. Gun rights are on the move, CA will feel the pressure of the other 49..

I hate hearing people say they are throwing in the towel.


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/mikemarkca/1986righttocarry.gif

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/mikemarkca/righttocarry.jpg

I think San Benito Co. is about to go green.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/mikemarkca/ca_ccw_map-big.jpg

ProlificARProspect
04-22-2010, 6:04 PM
Frustrated with how this State is going on politics is understandable, the politics is affecting our social daily life, especially in the 2ND amendment community. Yes currently the State will impose any anti-gun law or regulation at will, without the will of the people but their own in Sacramento...even if it's against the will of the people.



Many of us have always lived in this state from day 1 of our lives, and some of us are old enough to remember the days of freedom concerning 2ND amendment rights of Californians. But one thing we can't ignore is other States in the Union have a respectable right to keep and bear arms, without the State infringing on that right. We are Americans, we pay taxes, we work, and are Family Men and Women just like any other Americans that LOVE Freedom in our Nation. Why can't we have that OPTION to freely RKBA? that's all we need is the option to do so. Some political entity has decided that if we have options to RKBA in California we would not be responsible enough or trained enough to take such a born right as Americans.



Yes it's going to take years to fight and regain our rights, yes the laws in the books will be fought first... and hopefully one day they will notice the will of the people and respect that, hopefully then we can prevent any such laws to be even considered. As of now i don't think we have outed anybody out of office do to their stance on RKBA, when we do, that's when they will take notice. All we can do is continue to do our battle here in California, if we leave to escape the high taxes, illegal immigration, high cost of living, and disregard for our rights especially the 2ND amendment right.... it will catch up to you eventually in the OTHER State.



First thing is first get incorporation, All else will follow. JUST MY 2 CENTS.




`

Ding126
04-22-2010, 6:06 PM
The red and dark red cancer spots of CA.

ttboy
04-22-2010, 6:12 PM
I'm sorry to say gun owners who value the Second Amendment in California are to small a number to have our voices heard. I realized that now will be moving to AZ ASAP.

Window_Seat
04-22-2010, 7:05 PM
It's been said here, and elsewhere... Eliminate the need of having a "full time" Legislature. Most states have a part time Legislature. Those that do are more pro-RKBA. The more red they are, the more anti they are with the exception of a few.

The National Conference of State Legislatures (http://www.ncsl.org/?tabid=16701) shows which states are full & part time legislatures. CA is one of 10 states that has a full time Legislature. It's no surprise that CA and NY were found to be among some of the most restrictive, according to that study of free states v. least free states.

If this Legislature actually had to work for their money and pay their dues like we do, things might change, but until they do... Just look at the chart, and it tells the story.


Full time Legislatures: 60% may or no issue.

Less than full time Legislatures: 13% may issue (not counting Iowa because they just passed SI).

Part time Legislatures: Just over 0.5% may issue.


Erik.

LazyBoy
04-22-2010, 7:23 PM
The red and dark red cancer spots of CA.
Too bad I live in one of those cancer spots.
My brother got tired of the restrictive laws in ca. so he moved to NV. But I stayed here to keep up the fight. I've lived here all my life and wasn't about to let the anti-gun crowd win

Vidiot
04-22-2010, 7:42 PM
I agree completely.

I've been thinking of moving to Washington. It seems CA will always be the lowest rung on the ladder of rights.

In Washington, you can own a silencer, >10round mag, no bullet button, no roster, as many guns/per month as you want, no online ammo ban, no registration, no 50cal ban, etc. It would be nice to live in freedom, and contribute to the coffers of Calguns from afar....

The added bonus is that Washington has no state income tax. But I've read they're just now trying to change that http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9F7JS902.htm gah!

We moved to Washington from Lost Angeles a little over a year ago. Best thing we ever did.

You're mostly right about the gun laws up here. But there are a few screwy things. We can own silencers...but we're not allowed to actually use them. The funny thing is that there isn't even an exception in the law for cops, so they are breaking the law every time they use a silencer. We do have registration on handguns bought from an FFL, but not on any other kind of firearm, and private party sales are pretty much totally unregulated. Also no short barreled rifles and no full auto. But otherwise you can have just about everything you want.

And CCW (called CPL here) is really easy...just fingerprints and $56 and it arrives in the mail 30 days later. The really cool part is the laws governing use of force in Washington. As a private citizen we actually have slightly more latitude than a police officer to use a firearm in self defense. Plus we have "stand your ground" doctrine so you can defend yourself without retreating in any place where you have a right to be. Also, if you have a CPL, a police officer isn't allowed to disarm you without your consent unless he's placing you under arrest.

And this is the best part...if the DA tries to prosecute you after a self defense shooting, and you are found innocent, the state is required to pay all your legal bills including expert witness fees and time lost from work. They passed that law to keep liberal cesspools like King County from using the courts to create a de-facto ban on concealed carry self defense.

Oh, and the income tax doesn't have a snowballs chance of passing up here. I'm sure they will try it, but it won't fly. The general populace is far more tax adverse than in CA.

Move to Washington. You won't regret it. (Provided you like "slightly damp" weather.)

tom1850
04-22-2010, 8:02 PM
This is what scares me more than anything. We are $150B in debt, with $25B more this coming year, and god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. I will not stay to pay 20% or more in State taxes, I don't care how much I like it here. And I fear, that is where it is headed.

Good point! Why are politicians spending so much time going after responsible gun owners when there are REAL PROBLEMS they should be dealing with? It feels like the walls are closing in.

I am spending more time just trying to understand the few things I can do as a gun owner since there are so many things I can't do.

Just what tid bits of my rights do I actually have left?

Barkoff
04-22-2010, 8:43 PM
Too bad I live in one of those cancer spots.
My brother got tired of the restrictive laws in ca. so he moved to NV. But I stayed here to keep up the fight. I've lived here all my life and wasn't about to let the anti-gun crowd win

As Denzel Washington would say, "my ni#$er".

Never give in to the rat bastards.

Choptop
04-22-2010, 8:50 PM
I am angry that there are so many in local CA Government that are excited and upbeat about taking away gun rights, rights that will only affect law abiding citizens. I really feel like a second class citizen in CA. Calguns could almost have a section on "what anti-gun laws passed today". Either CA will one day "wake up" and realize they have been depriving Constitutional rights to Law Abiding citizens (Hardly), or this legal war we are in is going to stretch for years and years, or I'm just going to pack and move to AZ. If we get SCOTUS to incorporate, we will still have legal battles for years just to get to where some States have been since the National AWB sun-setted. Sorry for the venting. I am just tired of it all. Really, is there any hope of a free CA as far as we are concerned or will they just ignore SCOTUS decision and invent new ways of stifling Us?

well, considering there were no anti-gun laws passed today... you should probably just take and deep breath and calm down a little. :D

aklon
04-22-2010, 10:00 PM
I am angry that there are so many in local CA Government that are excited and upbeat about taking away gun rights, rights that will only affect law abiding citizens.


Gun Control is a safe issue for CA politicians: it gets them press attention, it curries favor and promotion within the Party, and there's no retribution from the electorate.

Not since Roberti was voted out of office all those years ago has any politician been made to pay the price for supporting gun control.

GuyW
04-22-2010, 10:14 PM
But if we all leave, we lose.

No - If we ALL left, the socialists would sink under the weight of their own BS, unless they they were murdered first.

It's nice to think about anyway....
.

Barkoff
04-22-2010, 10:21 PM
No - If we ALL left, the socialists would sink under the weight of their own BS, unless they they were murdered first.

It's nice to think about anyway....
.

Yep, then guess what? They bail too and follow those who moved to WA.

When the taxes become suppressive, and it all starts to fall apart, a lot of moderates will vote conservative. Nov is going to tell us a lot.

JohnDumke
04-22-2010, 10:48 PM
Just contributed $25 to the CGF. At least that is something I can do.

gorblimey
04-22-2010, 10:58 PM
This is what scares me more than anything. We are $150B in debt, with $25B more this coming year, and god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. I will not stay to pay 20% or more in State taxes, I don't care how much I like it here. And I fear, that is where it is headed.

CA Income tax + CA sales tax = ?

cbn620
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
I'm not at the point financially (and in other ways) in my life where I can move, forget wanting to move. And I know there are others like me. Man it sure is depressing watching this happen though. I feel like calling these people and leaving messages does nothing. All the effort I've put into calls and emails and whatnot, and the words seem to just go in one ear and out the other. I feel like the only solution at this point lies in the courts. Maybe I'm completely out of the loop, but with this latest group of bills I don't feel like Heller has said enough on the subject. It feels incredibly hopeless because I feel like every bill that gets passed probably equates to something like ten years in the court system trying to fight out unconstitutional legislation.

dennab
04-22-2010, 11:21 PM
I feel for you, bro! I recently moved to the great state of AZ and it's alike a whole new world here. The government actually allows its residents to make basic decisions for themselves w/out much intervention. Simple pleasures are not infringed upon like riding a motorcycle w/out a helmet (dumb idea but there's no restrictive law against it), talking on your cell phone w/out a mandated bluetooth, being able to buy pretty much any firearm and now the ability to carry w/out a permit. This is all new to me - being treated like an adult and not having some d'bag in local government making decisions for me. It's a breath of fresh air, albeit hot air out here. The longer I'm gone from CA, the more I realize how f'd up CA is and how basic freedoms are simply ignored and negated. Yes, I miss the beauty, the weather, the sushi and the beaches...but hey, sooner or later, AZ will have beaches :)

audiophil2
04-23-2010, 8:44 AM
If it were only gun laws that made CA oppressive then it would be worth staying. All the other factors involved with burdening the working class such as taxes, tolls, fee's, and horrible government programs/laws are what drive many away. If housing and taxes were reasonable I would move back. Instead the ocean has become my backyard pool or month long trips to Hawaii. My $ goes so much farther out here that I can do and go anywhere I want and still save a lot of money.
Why should I wait 20 years for decent gun laws when any state has better laws now.

SuperSet
04-23-2010, 9:10 AM
I wish you guys all the best in the AZ sun. The desert can be nice at times.

For me, this is the front line so I'm staying put. It doesn't hurt that I'm having the best time too. :)

gobler
04-23-2010, 10:13 AM
Not too surprised to see the same sentiments as myself. My wife and I have been talking about this for a year and and a half now. Both if us were born here and grew up here but have become so frustrated by the shear size of our sate government (more and more restrictive laws) and the exceedingly high cost of living, that we've been looking at a large variety of states. I own my own business so I can go anywhere when it come to that and my wife works at a large news paper but could leave (the liberal crap in the media is rough on her). There is one major factor in where we can go though and that s due to an illness so that does rule out a few of the freer places like Alaska but states like Virginia, Texas and Indiana are all in play. Now that Arizona has passed the new freedom (gun) laws and the states good governor is about to sign a major tool to help LEO's nab illegals I am really considering AZ now. My wife does not like the dessert cause she likes to grow plants and what not but has given in to at least going to AZ on a trip to see it for her self; I'm thinking the north sections but not higher then Flagstaff. We've looked at home prices in a lot of markets and this state is simply off our affordable list :mad: We can get a decent home almost anywhere else plus many, many more gun options out of state. :mad: Sac has simply ignored the business owners and law abiding citizens for too long now, so we go.

Sort of a ps. We both are Disney junkie's so that will really hurt :(

SeanCasey
04-23-2010, 10:26 AM
I am deeply frustrated with California laws, but I have vowed that I am not going to run from the fight. The only reason I would leave right now is if I had to or if I simply had an opportunity I couldn't refuse that took me somewhere else. Otherwise, I simply decide to turn my anger and frustration into productive efforts to help keep what rights we do have while working to win back the ones we don't.

Eventually you run out of places to hide, and then what? What do you make your stand? I was born here, and the truth is California wasn't always this bad, but the more of us that leave the harder the fight gets for those of us left behind. In reality what we need to do, is to come up with a strategy to get MORE like minded individuals into this state.

Anyhow I am making my stand here and encourage everyone here to do that same.

audiophil2
04-23-2010, 11:22 AM
You would need an influx of 1,000,000 pro2A voters into CA before you have a slight chance at making a difference. That does not take into consideration the 1,000,000+ new residents that will vote against you so they can have free social services. CA has no chance anymore and those that stay can enjoy the ocean, vineyards, mountains, etc. while living no where near them and paying unreasonable rents and taxes.
I prefer to live where my vote counts, my doors can stay unlocked, my kid can ride his training bike in the street, and I know all my neighbors. Not that I need every pro 2a law Arizona provides but having the choice is true freedom.

Liberty1
04-23-2010, 11:42 AM
CGN the anti-CA-depression! :)

msand951
04-23-2010, 12:13 PM
I would move and run but im stuck in this house i just got. Im happy with it to bad its not in AZ or NV. Sometimes you got to know when to fold them guys. Lets stop calling CA California its F-ing Russia and its a lost cause.
:beatdeadhorse5:
We should start buying air rifles now before they start passing laws on those also. Ive seen some full auto bb guns. Keep buying US made stuff but not if its made in CA, i mean Russia. No more CA dairy milk here and CA grown produce.

KylaGWolf
04-23-2010, 12:22 PM
You can own a suppressor but you can't use it.

For now.

Note that WA is an interesting place with about half of the population in the Seattle/King Co. metro area. Most of the state remains gun friendly but there is a vocal anti-gun component on the west coast.

I think part of that reason is people from CA moving to both Oregon and Washington so they are now getting some of the people that were oh so anti-gun here.

Havoc70
04-24-2010, 5:09 AM
I may have a very interesting job opportunity in Louisiana. Talk about a state that gets it:


Loaded Open Carry without a permit
Honors all non-residency out of state permits (i.e. Florida non-resident, Utah non-resident)
Louisiana's own CCW policy is very straightforward; pay the fee, take the class, get the piece of paper
Your car is considered an extension of the home, so you can conceal a firearm in your car without a permit.
You can own ANY type of firearm (permit required for machine guns, etc)


And the job itself is somewhat dangerous, but right up my alley as a computer geek: setting up microwave WAN connections on oil rigs. Commuting to work by helicopter doesn't suck. Oil rigs exploding, though, does, but ehn, no risk, no reward.

And it looks like in about six months this is going to be a go!

1JimMarch
04-24-2010, 6:00 AM
You guys are about to win BIG. Huge. Even the UOC ban is going to hasten VERMONT CARRY (briefly) until they put in a real shall-issue CCW system.

Read the Heller decision again. Then read all the cases cited in footnote nine. Then understand what McDonald is all about. Once you know that, you'll understand just how badly the gun-grabber cause is screwed.

veeklog
04-24-2010, 6:04 AM
This is what scares me more than anything. We are $150B in debt, with $25B more this coming year, and god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. I will not stay to pay 20% or more in State taxes, I don't care how much I like it here. And I fear, that is where it is headed.

I love California; born and raised there. I was shocked when I went back to Cali to complete my taxes and found out that California raised their state income tax two percentage points (was applied retroactively); it really pissed me off since I claimed "0" on my State Income tax and paid over $10,000 USD in state income taxes last year, almost as much as I paid for Federal Income Taxes. I expected to get some money back, but still owed the state money. My buddy is still owed $1300 USD from California, and he doesn't expect to get it soon.

I have to agree that if California continues on the path of self destruction they are currently at and implodes, the residents of the state, including my family and friends, will pay as much taxes as Europe and Canada. Scary, but true. I wish, as many of you will agree, that I can return to California of my youth, where I can ride my bike to get fresh strawberries, and go with my dad to the New B&B Guns on Goldenwest and see all those brand new Norinco AK's, Colt AR's, HK-91's, 93's, 94's, and Springfield SAR-48's.

Ding126
04-24-2010, 7:29 AM
I feel for you, bro! I recently moved to the great state of AZ and it's alike a whole new world here. The government actually allows its residents to make basic decisions for themselves w/out much intervention. Simple pleasures are not infringed upon like riding a motorcycle w/out a helmet (dumb idea but there's no restrictive law against it), talking on your cell phone w/out a mandated bluetooth, being able to buy pretty much any firearm and now the ability to carry w/out a permit. This is all new to me - being treated like an adult and not having some d'bag in local government making decisions for me. It's a breath of fresh air, albeit hot air out here. The longer I'm gone from CA, the more I realize how f'd up CA is and how basic freedoms are simply ignored and negated. Yes, I miss the beauty, the weather, the sushi and the beaches...but hey, sooner or later, AZ will have beaches :)

Isn't it amazing to have a free state right next to enemy lines..I called AZ America

HUTCH 7.62
04-24-2010, 7:32 AM
AT least in Arizona Illegal Immigrants are well...illegal

Havoc70
04-24-2010, 7:33 AM
I was talking to my fiance, and if it was only the gun laws, I would stay. However, I make a good salary and she makes an OK hourly wage. But she can just barely afford to cover her bills and I'm still paycheck to paycheck. The "rad tax" as I call it is just too expensive. The cost of living in the urban areas of California is ridiculous. The rural areas (like where I grew up in Shasta) aren't so bad for cost, but the jobs are similarly depressed. It's a no win situation.

Full Clip
04-24-2010, 7:40 AM
This is what scares me more than anything. We are $150B in debt, with $25B more this coming year, and god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. I will not stay to pay 20% or more in State taxes, I don't care how much I like it here. And I fear, that is where it is headed.

No kidding.
Moving to another state —*like OR or WA — will become an effective major raise for me.
But I'm lucky, my job moves with me.

HUTCH 7.62
04-24-2010, 7:56 AM
I was talking to my fiance, and if it was only the gun laws, I would stay. However, I make a good salary and she makes an OK hourly wage. But she can just barely afford to cover her bills and I'm still paycheck to paycheck. The "rad tax" as I call it is just too expensive. The cost of living in the urban areas of California is ridiculous. The rural areas (like where I grew up in Shasta) aren't so bad for cost, but the jobs are similarly depressed. It's a no win situation.

Same here, amen. I'd go back to Redding but jobs are hard to come by

Kyle1886
04-24-2010, 8:09 AM
Moved to CA in 1958, (Marine Corps) now too old and too tired to move, so we will stand our ground and fight the fight at the ballot box and with letters, as usual. Too bad not many good choices for Gov. this round though, but...

Kyle

Sunwolf
04-24-2010, 8:51 AM
Will stay and fight as long as I can but it is getting old and so am I.Another State is definitely on the horizon.The ancestral homelands are in Arizona and New Mexico,who knows?Maybe next year.

Kharn
04-24-2010, 8:55 AM
A few works:
McDonald v. Chicago
;)

PatriotnMore
04-24-2010, 8:58 AM
I am just curious, if you move to reservation land, are you given property, is it highly discounted, how does that work?

Will stay and fight as long as I can but it is getting old and so am I.Another State is definitely on the horizon.The ancestral homelands are in Arizona and New Mexico,who knows?Maybe next year.

Sunwolf
04-24-2010, 9:09 AM
I really don`t know,since my Grandfather was one of the ones that took off for the Sierra Madre and returned after 1910 where he settled in Utah of all places.He was never on a reservation.He died at Bingham canyon.My father shied away from any connection to any reservation but enrolled my older brother in Indian school after a series of deaths in the family.Great grand,Grand and father were born in Arizona.Going to the desert will not be a hardship for someone from the desert.

themethod
04-24-2010, 12:22 PM
Any collapse, of any kind will be meaningless, if it is re-built by the same voting population, leadership, and mentality which brought us here.
The voting population and leadership in question don't have a clue how to build anything.

...

I'm skeptical of their ability to do anything constructive.

+1 I was going to post this but knew someone probably beat me to it.

barthel
04-24-2010, 2:24 PM
I have lived in California 98% of my adult life. I can't imagine leaving the South Bay as it is the only home I've ever known, but like a lot of you don't know how much longer I can put up with this moronic and myopic state.

And it's not just 2A either (although lately that's a LARGE part of it), it's almost like the state government as a whole does the exact opposite of what would be intelligent or prudent and the lefty libs LOVE it. "We're so forward thinking", well actually your *** backwards and the laughing stock of 49 other states.

I will stay and fight (for now) but I am getting very tired of fighting tooth and nail and having nothing to show for it.

As a Marine friend of mine used to remind me, "Embrace the Suck"!:mad:

big red
04-24-2010, 2:36 PM
lived in california since 1958 under Pat Brown and I can't agree with you more Barthel. Sooner or later people will start waking up and until then all we cna do is protect ourselves. Work as hard as you do in any other state and you would be a success because the local and state governments do not suck everything out of you. Here you lose rights and slave away to pay taxes. Just look at how much you spend on taxes from sales tax, to gas tax, to house tax, to income taxes and several in between. 80% of your salary goes to some form of tax.

HUTCH 7.62
04-24-2010, 2:40 PM
If the Jefferson State we're to succeded from this failing state I would immediatly move back up there and help them build a fence on the southern border.

barthel
04-24-2010, 2:42 PM
Red, if we worked this hard in any other state, we'd be running that state.

big red
04-24-2010, 3:18 PM
You don't have to tell me Barthel and unfortunately your local and state government does not care about you if your paying taxes. I don't say that just as a taxpayer but also as one of the people who worked inside the system for three decades to help any other individual workers who were honestly working for the taxpayer and trying to help the little guy. But we were in the minority because the powers to be only wanted to collect and never improve unless it was on how to collect more taxes. It begins at the ballot box and when you remove the political bribers and favor givers and boot them from office then you elect people who will go through government at all levels and rid us of the power leeches who did the dirty work of those above. If they were not on the sh--list of the power brokers then they need to go and that means ninety percent of the administrators, managers, and supervisors at all levels of government. They were only out for themselves. You will run the state but from the ballot box. No party favorites and no incumbents. Both parties do not want you in control. You are just slaves to the system as far as they are concerned and stupid to boot in their minds.

barthel
04-24-2010, 3:28 PM
Agreed.

I'm not one to put on the tin foil hat very often :TFH: but it seems to me the more people they can get on the government take, the more they've got a "captive" audience as that group (mostly illegals and welfare recipients) will NEVER vote for a smaller government, as a smaller government would take their services away. Once we reach a simple majority that is on the government dole, we've lost. Our state will never come back to normality at that point and the liberal agenda will run amok.

Unfortunately, I often feel like we've either reached that point, or are at 49.9%. Once that happens, I'm outta here. :mad:

L84CABO
04-24-2010, 3:34 PM
Not too surprised to see the same sentiments as myself. My wife and I have been talking about this for a year and and a half now. Both if us were born here and grew up here but have become so frustrated by the shear size of our sate government (more and more restrictive laws) and the exceedingly high cost of living, that we've been looking at a large variety of states. I own my own business so I can go anywhere when it come to that and my wife works at a large news paper but could leave (the liberal crap in the media is rough on her). There is one major factor in where we can go though and that s due to an illness so that does rule out a few of the freer places like Alaska but states like Virginia, Texas and Indiana are all in play. Now that Arizona has passed the new freedom (gun) laws and the states good governor is about to sign a major tool to help LEO's nab illegals I am really considering AZ now. My wife does not like the dessert cause she likes to grow plants and what not but has given in to at least going to AZ on a trip to see it for her self; I'm thinking the north sections but not higher then Flagstaff. We've looked at home prices in a lot of markets and this state is simply off our affordable list :mad: We can get a decent home almost anywhere else plus many, many more gun options out of state. :mad: Sac has simply ignored the business owners and law abiding citizens for too long now, so we go.

Sort of a ps. We both are Disney junkie's so that will really hurt :(

+1 I was born and raised here and it's tragic what this state has become. It's gone from the best place to live in the US to one of the worst. I'd say that it doesn't make sense to move for the gun laws alone but the list of absurdities is hard to deny. Housing prices are off the charts, gas prices are the most expensive in the nation (at least where I live), traffic and congestion make you want to kill yourself each morning on the drive to work...if the crazies don't do it for you...that state is bankrupt both financially and when it comes to common sense. It's a hell of price to pay for sunshine.

Peace

big red
04-24-2010, 3:36 PM
We are very close to it and why do you think the government is very concerned about who owns guns and what type. The hard working honest workers who have stayed had made it clear they do not intend on giving up what they have earned to a corrupt government are also many of the gun owners willing to fight to keep what they have earned. The government knows the clash is not far off because either the government goes bankrupt or they take what is left to keep the ship afloat a while longer. Then we become a socialist state. When that moment happens the LEO's, the Guard, and otehrs carrying a gun for government are going to have to make a choice. Join their neighbors or face them in armed confrontation. The U.S. military will not intervene. It only did so in 1968 in Washignton D.C. because the city was not a sovereign state like California. It will degenerate into a in-house fight. Hopefully we can keep that from happening by using the ballot box and not the cartridge box.

big red
04-24-2010, 3:41 PM
Look at Sheridan Wyoming. The city mayor wants a gun free city so he hires an ex-Detroit chief of police to come in and start violating Wyoming laws to run Sheridan. Wyoming was the place where Starbucks made a stand against the Brady campaign but now they are fighting an anti-gun movement fueled by the politicans. You can't run to a better place because the anti-gun folks are attacking everywhere through crooked cops and politicans who want absolute power. Might as well stand and fight where you are. I have a place in Colorado but I will be damned if some two bit politician or crooked cop is going to run me off in this state. I even have the muskets for that famous shot heard around the world if we need it.

HUTCH 7.62
04-24-2010, 5:16 PM
5To see that this state is losing it's grip on it's people just look at all the ammo hoarding going on and now the state is gonna ban mail order ammo to stem the folw, quincidence I think not.

nk-1911
04-24-2010, 5:52 PM
Hell yeah I'm depressed. But I can't move because this is where my job is so I have to stay and fight. I know it's an uphill battle but we can't give up. I feel that we are about to reach a tipping point. I hate to say it but there is going to be an uprise here in California in a not so distant future.

barthel
04-24-2010, 6:15 PM
Hell yeah I'm depressed. But I can't move because this is where my job is so I have to stay and fight. I know it's an uphill battle but we can't give up. I feel that we are about to reach a tipping point. I hate to say it but there is going to be an uprise here in California in a not so distant future.

+1 on that

IW378
04-24-2010, 6:32 PM
The only thing keeping me here is the sturgeon fishing.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4010/4810009.jpg
I got a hard time giving this up. And only fish catch and release but the state will probably figure out a good way to screw this up as well.

big red
04-24-2010, 6:41 PM
Let's all stick around and give them He--. Go check out Norse Armory in Woodland on 10 North East Street in suite 211. Good guys and fair prices on some neat stuff is you like little black box pistols. I am too old to run and I was never trained to do that anyway. Fight them head on and then fall back if we have to and fight a hit and run fight. Life is going to get rougher in the Golden State for honest hard working people but why should we give up our homes to freeloaders. They will destroy this state and just follow you wherever you go.

HUTCH 7.62
04-24-2010, 11:11 PM
The only thing keeping me here is the sturgeon fishing.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4010/4810009.jpg
I got a hard time giving this up. And only fish catch and release but the state will probably figure out a good way to screw this up as well.

Caught a f'er bigger than that off the dumbarton RR bridge 2 months ago

neuron
04-24-2010, 11:19 PM
True that. I moved to Plano TX last October. it is indeed free & we are faring just fine but...........................I now miss taking a short drive to Tahoe, reno, SF, Bay area, the ocean, Eldorado forest & BLM land up there!
I dont thing things will get better in CA. Sorry for being pessimistic!

You could move to Reno or Carson City and still be close to the good stuff around here...and you'd be in Nevada, a great state that still has its senses...if they vote Dingy Harry out of office.

HUTCH 7.62
04-24-2010, 11:31 PM
You could move to Reno or Carson City and still be close to the good stuff around here...and you'd be in Nevada, a great state that still has its senses...if they vote Dingy Harry out of office.

even NV is being flooded by CA libby politics. It all started to go downhill with Med. POT and diesel emission laws

nk-1911
04-25-2010, 12:29 AM
Arizona would be my choice. I like their new anti ILLEGAL immigrants law.

anthonyca
04-25-2010, 1:28 AM
I was talking to my fiance, and if it was only the gun laws, I would stay. However, I make a good salary and she makes an OK hourly wage. But she can just barely afford to cover her bills and I'm still paycheck to paycheck. The "rad tax" as I call it is just too expensive. The cost of living in the urban areas of California is ridiculous. The rural areas (like where I grew up in Shasta) aren't so bad for cost, but the jobs are similarly depressed. It's a no win situation.

You sir, are correct. I work a crap load of hours and pay so much frigging tax that the taxes I pay are more than the gross I made when I started this job. The cost of living here is also crazy. If I transfer to a cheaper part of the state, with the same company, my wage will decrease by about 35%, and my hours would decrease by about 800 a year as there is no work in those areas. That would kill my pension and I would not be able to retire and ditch this place. No win.

Milsurp Collector
04-25-2010, 7:36 AM
CA has no chance anymore and those that stay can enjoy the ocean, vineyards, mountains, etc. while living no where near them and paying unreasonable rents and taxes.


The view from my front porch in Oregon

http://i43.tinypic.com/23ihqwz.jpg

This beach is less than 45 minutes away

http://www.dl-digital.com/images/Travel-Oregon/v15--cannonbeach-coastline-print2-Bstamp2.jpg

I live in Oregon's wine country. This vineyard is walking distance from my house

http://www.winesofwoi.com/Images/orWV_montinore.jpg

Skiing on Mt. Hood is available a little over an hour's drive from downtown Portland, and about 2 hours drive from my house. Lindsey Vonn trained at skiing camps there when she was younger.

http://lemonlemonade.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/mthood0.jpg


My wife does not like the dessert cause she likes to grow plants and what not but has given in to at least going to AZ on a trip to see it for her self;

Portland is called the Rose City. This is the Washington Park International Rose Test Garden and the Crystal Springs Rhododendron Garden

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vinqeu.jpg


The only thing keeping me here is the sturgeon fishing.


The Columbia River that separates Oregon from Washington has great sturgeon and salmon fishing (not me in the picture) and also world-class windsurfing (http://windsurf.gorge.net/cgwa/).

http://www.totalfisherman.com/tom_johnson_58_inch_sturgeon.jpg

http://www.totalfisherman.com/photos.htm

Firearms laws? Article I, Section 27 of the Oregon Constitution states

Section 27. Right to bear arms; military subordinate to civil power. The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence [sic] of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power[.]


No "assault weapon" or .50 BMG ban
No magazine capacity limits
Full auto and suppressors are legal
"Shall issue" concealed weapon permits
Loaded open carry is legal and requires no permit, except in a few cities. Loaded open or concealed carry legal in those cities with the "shall issue" CCW
No 10-day waiting period
No 1-per-month handgun purchase limit
No "safe handgun" roster
No Handgun Safety Certificate
No sales restrictions/hassles with handgun ammo


There is a large annual machine gun shoot at the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club

n4_EVJ4q52o

Gun shows almost every other weekend

http://www.collectorswest.com/pages/schedule.html

I'm a member of a gun club that has events every weekend

http://www.tcgc.org/cgi-bin/calendar.pl

Last weekend I shot my M1903A3 in a match. Later today I'll be shooting my M1 Carbine (with 15-round magazines) in a match.

Oregon has NO sales tax.

Life is short, there is no guarantee that California is going to get better during your lifetime, in fact it might get even worse. Meanwhile, you could be living the dream TODAY.

PatriotnMore
04-25-2010, 7:39 AM
^^^You just suck, go away.^^^:) kidding

Barkoff
04-25-2010, 7:47 AM
Agreed.

I'm not one to put on the tin foil hat very often :TFH: but it seems to me the more people they can get on the government take, the more they've got a "captive" audience as that group (mostly illegals and welfare recipients) will NEVER vote for a smaller government, as a smaller government would take their services away. Once we reach a simple majority that is on the government dole, we've lost. Our state will never come back to normality at that point and the liberal agenda will run amok.

Unfortunately, I often feel like we've either reached that point, or are at 49.9%. Once that happens, I'm outta here. :mad:


However as the number of those who contribute dwindles and those who take rises, that system will fall apart, and those who supported it will be forced to learn the hard way. Could be we are in the first stages of total collapse, hopefully this will turn the left onto the hard left.

VW*Mike
04-25-2010, 11:19 AM
I hate it here. I would have been gone yesterday if my house wasn't under water, and I bought it 6 years ago! All I can hope is the people are mad enough this Nov to kick start a "sea change" in this state. Lets just say I'm not betting on it. The cry babies, lazy people, free loaders and liberals are nice and comfy in this state and the roots have set in.

Personally, my money is on California going down in a huge spectacular way and we revert to some sort of "Third World country" where the state is broke, services and infrastructure is beyond feasible repair, crime runs rampant and there are few major businesses left. I think this spiral is likely, infact the path is being paved as we are walking on it at this point and the signs are being ignored. It will last for a short time before the feds are forced to step in. Our budget has QUADRUPLED since Wilson was in office with his own budget troubles.

The likely hood of a politically and financially conservative republican EVER getting elected in this state until we are past the point or no return IMO is slim and none. It has to go into pieces before that will happen. Problem is the group of people sucking at the teat of the government here has gotten so large they will not cut off the hand that feeds them at the voting booth. It will have to be a forced change. How long will it keep going like this is anyone's guess. I'm glad CA is broke its a step in the right direction, but considering the last few budget cycles, the politicians and citizens still don't get it, teachers crying about cuts, well I took a 30% pay cut last year. It sucks, was it necessary? Yup, I made lots of money when the worlds economy was great, now its not so its time to adjust. This is America. When we get kicked down, we get up, dust ourselves off, adapt and continue to carry on. Not wait crying for someone to help us. That's what made this nation greater then everyone else at one time. We carried on. We made due with what we had. Now we are choking on people too selfish to save for retirement, or trust fund babies who don't work for a living and live of the money THEIR parents saved to make it better for their families future generations. Case in point, my wifes own piece of **** father spent the money her GRANDMOTHER left to her for college on a new kitchen before she was 18.

/Rant

mossy
04-25-2010, 3:59 PM
A few works:
McDonald v. Chicago
;)

i dont see this as the cure all for CA gun laws and it definitely will not even touch the other bull*hit CA puts me through, and taxes me out of. i have had it with CA those who want to stay can, but i am out of this mess as soon as i am done with college. CA will NEVER be nice to us gun owners. it is to far gone, and we find ourselves fighting (and losing) to keep the little rights we have while other places keep getting more and more rights given to them.

tuolumnejim
04-25-2010, 4:17 PM
Depends on the make-up of SCOTUS, and with the punk-in-chief looking at 2 and possibly 3 appointments, it doesnt look promising. Like you say, even if McDonald seems to come down clean, there will be many more challenges, most of which will take time - - time he needs to stack the court.

Unless they have to reley on O'oganizer care, we could see some new appointments coming up in the next term. :D

VW*Mike
04-25-2010, 5:46 PM
Anyone else think he will have a hard time with nominations for SCOTUS after Nov? Then January will be here, and our countries sentence will be halfway over!

wheels
04-25-2010, 6:00 PM
Sometimes I worry that my posterity will be trapped behind the lines if we stay here.

An absolute fact - I am past the point of thinking CA can be rescued. I have 2 daughters here in CA in their 20's that don't see the potential problems that are coming. It's hard to just up and leave them.

:(

Sinixstar
04-25-2010, 6:10 PM
even NV is being flooded by CA libby politics. It all started to go downhill with Med. POT and diesel emission laws

That's kind of a bit of a mis-characterization I think. there's a lot of stuff being blamed on the 'California transplants', but my experience while i was there - was that it was a lot of locals who had been around for generations that were doing the most harm.

Great example of this- was in Douglas County. you'd hear all about the 'CA developers who want to pave the valley over' and this and that. All this talk about protecting the ranchers and the agriculture heritage and all this stuff. meanwhile the biggest developers were locals, and the ranchers were making money hand over fist selling their land - then turning around yelling about needing protection.

By and large it was the people from California and elsewhere that were getting the most pissed at all the stuff that was happening, because they went there to get AWAY from all that BS, not recreate it.

But - your results may vary...

Hogxtz
04-25-2010, 6:21 PM
Reasons why I am leaving my birth state Ca in 3 years when I retire:

1. Huge infringement of my RKBA, and related anti-gun laws, ammo,ect.
2. Red Sticker restrictions on dirt bikes
3. Gold dreging has been outlawed anywhere in the entire state of Ca.
4. Excessive vehicle registration costs
5. Excessive taxes everywhere on everything for every action in this State.
6. Clueless politicians that are "on the take"
7. California air resources board
8. Smog check requirement by area you live in.
9. Cell phone law
10. seat belt law
11. Helmet law
12. Welfare system, including benefits for Illegal's
13. ect....

hell, we just narrowly missed new legislation last year that would have required me to smog check my Harley and would not be able to use after market exhaust.

It's a wave in Ca, if Anybody does something that somebody doesn't like or agree with, just make a law banning it.

I will take my pension and exit this toilet flushed state and never look back. Arizona is looking pretty dam good these days!

VW*Mike
04-25-2010, 6:37 PM
^^^^^^^ This! I want out, but I'm stuck. I will rent my house out and leave when the wife is done with school and working. I was born here too. It may change, it probably won't, either way, I likely won't be here to see it, I will read about it online.

Sinixstar
04-25-2010, 6:53 PM
See - I think moving out is the wrong thing to do.
What you need to do is figure out the 'soft' counties - counties that lean dem, but aren't SOLIDLY blue. Move there, convince your friends to move there. When you move, Register either I or D - not R. Vote according to your beliefs - watch everyone scramble as they try to figure out wtf.

Aleksandr Mravinsky
04-25-2010, 7:25 PM
<snip>

You just sold me on moving to Oregon. Was planning on college (at least) there, but those pictures just sold me on living the rest of my life there.

Hogxtz
04-25-2010, 7:32 PM
^^^^Warning about Oregon he did not mention. My Mom lives in Florence. It rains and rains and rains in Oregon. Btw, did I mention that it rains a lot in oregon?

Aleksandr Mravinsky
04-25-2010, 7:48 PM
^^^^Warning about Oregon he did not mention. My Mom lives in Florence. It rains and rains and rains in Oregon. Btw, did I mention that it rains a lot in oregon?

Love the rain. Only problem is when the school dress-code bans jackets based on colors (that I have no jackets in).

Window_Seat
04-25-2010, 8:26 PM
As far as Oregon & tax, I can live in Vancouver, work in Portland, pay no income tax in Washington, buy my things in Portland & other areas in Oregon (while I'm there), and qualify for the Amtrak law which basically says that I work for a company that does work in Interstate Commerce.
:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Erik; looking forward (to the savings).:cool:

cimsm
04-25-2010, 9:08 PM
I'm adding a "me too." My wife and I were doing some house shopping in Eugene, OR last weekend. Checked out a few of the local gun shops and ranges while I was there; looked good to me!

I was born and raised in California, my family has been here for as long as they've been in America and they helped build this state. It kills me to have to leave, but my wife and I can't afford the housing, I've been furloughed by the state (a 10% pay cut with no real reduction in work), the state government is a wreck and to top it all off, they keep passing things like the mail-order ammo ban.

I'm glad that McDonald will eventually lead to some friendlier gun laws in the state, but there's more problems in California that are driving me away. In the meantime though, I'm glad that CalGuns is fighting the good fight, and I donate when I can.

Super Spy
04-25-2010, 9:13 PM
I'm depressed my hours got cut 20% again, but the flip side is motivation to look for a better job, and you better believe I'm looking out of state. I know that there is plenty I'd miss, the weather, all the stuff to do from the beach to Tahoe, friends, family......but if I can make the same or better money in a state with lower cost of living (often times less or no income tax too) It will sure help. I don't want to leave California because I love the land, the weather, and some of the people......the government and the rest of the people I could do without.

Lone_Gunman
04-25-2010, 9:33 PM
I absolutely hate CA. I have begun researching jobs in other states. I'm also working on my wife, she's starting to come around. The problem is our family is here and she would like to stay near them. We bought our house about a year and a half ago- not at the bottom but near enough that we will be able to get back out of it in a few years. I don't expect to live here in 5 years unless there is some kind of huge conservative voter revolution-- I'm not holding my breath. I've been looking at Arizona and Idaho. Just have to find a job in my field, convince my wife, and be able to get little cash out of the house.

Milsurp Collector
04-25-2010, 10:13 PM
As far as Oregon & tax, I can live in Vancouver, work in Portland...

A lot of people had the same idea. It has lead to a hellish commute across the single bridge (built in 1917 and expanded in 1958) that connects Portland and Vancouver.


Today, the Interstate Bridge carries 135,000 vehicles per day. Because congestion is so heavy in the morning and evening commute hours, bridge lifts for river traffic have been restricted, but not prohibited, during the weekday rush hour.

Traffic congestion at the I-5 bridge currently lasts six hours and is expected to increase to more than seven hours southbound and eight hours northbound by the year 2030.

http://www.columbiarivercrossing.org/

motorhead
04-26-2010, 12:03 PM
speaking as a 53 yo native, i'm impressed with the outpouring of enthusiasm in the last few years. we got to where we are through apathy. i still know people who are too friggin lazy to MAIL IN a ballot. folks here at calguns represent the future. it's soooo time to reclaim our rights. it won't happen overnight but i'm expecting it to happen before i check out.

woodsman
04-26-2010, 2:13 PM
Every now and again I get caught up and start thinking I should leave California. However, there are still lots of reasons to stay though it often seems that our elected officials seem to try their best to run us out.

I may leave one day but it will be a combination of "things" that result in my departing California.

In the mean time, when it comes to 2A stuff, may as well fight it here. If we all leave, the battle will just follow us.

Kyle1886
04-26-2010, 3:09 PM
As I mentioned before, we will stay and continue to butt heads with those in power. Unfortunately it isn't just the firearms issue but a combination of issues that make living in California a bit more difficult. We owned and tried to keep afloat a business for 25+ years and between the Workerscomp Ins., environmental regulations, and dealing with the multitude of regulatory agencies, we finaly went under. California is not business friendly--period.

Yes, I get frustrated, but I was never promised a "rose garden" so I guess we will just continue to butt heads as long as we can. Excedrin head ache # (pick a number).

We may lose a few skirmishes, but together I prey we win the "war".

Respectfull,
Kyle

big red
04-26-2010, 4:53 PM
If you do not stop it here California will export everything you hate to other states next to it. And as for oregon check with gun owners since I heard southern oregon is not thrilled with the big cities and that state seems to be having it's own problems. Be careful you are not going someplace and just delaying facing the same issues again.

advocatusdiaboli
04-26-2010, 7:19 PM
California has a great climate and natural beauty, but it's inability to deal with gangs and illegal immigration, increasing taxation, budget deficits, increasing costs of housing and living, and ever weakening of gun rights has our family intent on moving to OR/WA one of these days but our employment opportunities here are keeping us a while longer. AMD is moving out of Sunnyvale to AZ and Cisco is moving its HQ to Raleigh-Durham NC as it exports more jobs to India. So even corporations recognize California is in decline in quality of life and increasing in costs and they are leaving. Why shouldn't we follow suit and export ourselves out of here? We are making our plans. I would love not to have magazine restrictions, no waits, no damn roster based on cosmetic finishes of Sigs, etc. I can't leave fast enough.

harbinger007
04-26-2010, 8:18 PM
I'm not active but popped in here because I was depressed also after reading this article tonight. It probably should have it's own thread (maybe it's started somewhere, but I didn't see it. I just couldn't believe the PD would be like this in Ripon.

http://www.modbee.com/2010/04/26/1143164/ripon-man-fires-gun-to-scare-off.html

Ripon man fires gun to scare off gang-banger burglars
Police nab two suspects nearby
Bee Staff Reports

RIPON -- A man who heard banging outside his apartment confronted three suspected burglars and scared them off by firing a pistol, police said today. Officers arrested two of them a short while later.

Police said the incident happened just before 10 p.m. Sunday near West Washington Street and Key Avenue.

The resident told police he confronted three men outside his apartment building and as they advanced on him, he retreated and fired a semi-automatic pistol into the ground.

The men backed off but stayed in the area. Police responding to the possible burglary report captured two of the men about two blocks away: Lamberto Godina, 18, of Ripon and Jose Mendoza, 19, of Salida.

They were booked into the San Joaquin County Jail on charges of assault, trespassing, and creating a disturbance.

Officers are trying to locate the third suspect. All three are documented members of the Norteño street gang.

The police department will ask the San Joaquin County District Attorney’s Office to review the case for possible charges against the victim for discharging a firearm within city limits, under the suspicion that the victim needlessly escalated the situation, police said.

Police are not releasing his identity because he fears for his safety.

Citing an increase in criminal activity, most of it gang-related, in the area, police urge anyone with information on the incident to report it immediately at 599-2102.

big red
04-26-2010, 11:04 PM
Isn't California great where the victim is likely to wind up in the jail cell next to the perps for defending himself?

Jerm
04-27-2010, 11:23 AM
Many years ago California was basically a farm state most of the people here were involved in farming and ranching activities. Since world war 2 it has been going the other way no one is hardly left in the Farming and ranching communities. With this change came the urbanization of California which created larger cities. With these changes most of population gave up hunting and etc. The problem now is most of the people living in the urban areas of California are looking for a handout and look to the govt for their every need. Which leads to people like Nancy Pelosi getting elected and most any liberal in the assembly and state senate this is what has killed California.

Suvorov
04-27-2010, 11:47 AM
If you do not stop it here California will export everything you hate to other states next to it. And as for oregon check with gun owners since I heard southern oregon is not thrilled with the big cities and that state seems to be having it's own problems. Be careful you are not going someplace and just delaying facing the same issues again.



Yes, but it is often better to fall back and regroup than to die in place.

neuron
04-27-2010, 8:35 PM
Yes, but it is often better to fall back and regroup than to die in place.

Yeah. I understand why the victim fired into the ground (to make it clear to
the BGs that he meant business) and I guess he viewed this act is a "less lethal" use of force than shooting the BG, while a greater level of force than just "branishing" his weapon. This is a good armed SD scenario to "Monday morning quarterback" (MMQ)

I wasn't there, so I'm just MMQ'ing. I hope the DA doesn't prosecute, and were I on a jury I'd aquit him. BUT, his best strategy would have been to hold his ground, brandish his weapon while giving clear verbal warning to the BGs to stop and retreat (and then call the cops to report them). You should not fire your weapon unless you are justified in shooting the threat. For all I know, he may have been justified in shooting the BGs, but took the chance (to avoid shooting them) of firing a "warning shot" into the ground. If so he placed his own safety at risk to go the extra distance to avoid shooting another human being. The Devil will be in the details.:confused:

Mendo223
04-28-2010, 2:47 PM
...... Besides I can have a range and a motocross track and the only thing my neighbors ask is: "when can we come over?".

thats so awesome man....man i want to move sometimes. unfortunately im also stuck in a mortgage.

i also like staying because than i am a gun owner in CA and helping tip the tide. i can also vote in nancy pelosis district against all her BS.

but i do have plans for moving out in the future hopefully....where do you own a range and motocross track?

Mendo223
04-28-2010, 2:51 PM
speaking as a 53 yo native, i'm impressed with the outpouring of enthusiasm in the last few years. we got to where we are through apathy. i still know people who are too friggin lazy to MAIL IN a ballot. folks here at calguns represent the future. it's soooo time to reclaim our rights. it won't happen overnight but i'm expecting it to happen before i check out.

ive been saying this too...calguns needs to become a single voting block.....50k votes in a particular direction could definately sway things.

we need more threads educating membesr and new visitors WHO TO VOTE FOR IN NOVEMBER, because honestly i dont know too much either and i want to know. basically assuming to fill in (R) on everything. (im voting in san francisco)

SoCalCitizen
04-28-2010, 8:11 PM
California, love it or leave it. If you love it, you know Cali though far from perfect, is still one of the greatest states in the union. I've been to a number of the other great states and we all have a-holes and crooked politicians to deal with. Some people I have known that moved out are happy and left Cali in the rear view mirror, while most miss and regret the move. For those that choose to leave, sorry it didn't work out for you, but quit whining and just go. Chances are you'll probably be miserable in what ever state you end up anyhow. For those that choose to stay, more power to ya.

echo1
04-29-2010, 2:03 PM
[QUOTE=harbinger007;4192068]I'm not active but popped in here because I was depressed also after reading this article tonight. It probably should have it's own thread (maybe it's started somewhere, but I didn't see it. I just couldn't believe the PD would be like this in Ripon.

Dude, I'm in Ripon, my wife and I defected from The Bay in '76. If in wasn't for this town being a true "community", we would have bailed Kali long ago. The RPD is reviewing the facts before making a determination. Do you know what the situation was? Departments have to error on the side of caution, in order to make a solid case, they didn't cite the guy, they're "investigating". May be the victim has history. Wait for the details. I'm from Fremont and grew up renegade during the revolution, with all LOEs as my sworn mortal enemy, until I started raising my sons here. I have guns on wall racks and in glass display cases. In the 28 years we've live in Ripon, we've never locked the house or our cars. Kali does suck hard, and it's tough to make here, when it implodes soon, it's going to be interesting. PAX

winnre
04-29-2010, 2:22 PM
Many years ago California was basically a farm state most of the people here were involved in farming and ranching activities.

Yup, in fact you have KFI radio, and the FI stood for Farm Information!

ImOverHere
04-29-2010, 3:16 PM
If you do not stop it here California will export everything you hate to other states next to it.


At least re RKBA, I just don't perceive that as happening:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=204 In fact, it's just the opposite.

vantec08
04-29-2010, 3:27 PM
Exactly, Jerm. The voting strength is in CA's inner cities, they are highly organized, and want what YOU have worked hard for. Which is why I prefer small, agronimal communities - - they seem to have a logical idea of what life is about: the plant, the harvest, the fallow, etc.

SickofSoCal
04-29-2010, 3:42 PM
It's so sad how fast we went down the tubes. Just a little over 10 years ago Los Angeles, of all places, had the largest gun show in the country.

For me, even if we had the same gun laws as one of the "Free States", I would still move, because for me it's a lot more to do then just gun laws.

Steyr_223
04-29-2010, 4:05 PM
So if you all hate Cali so much and think that our gun rights here are doomed..Why not leave already!! Just go? Stop your wining and leave.

Some of us will stay and fight. We may lose but I'd rather go down fighting then cut and run, but that is just me.

And it's not just the gun laws for me. My family is here. My friends are here. My job is here. My house is here. I think California is a great state with endless possibilities..

I choose to stay and fight.

Milsurp Collector
04-29-2010, 4:46 PM
I choose to stay and fight.

Sounds good, but what can an individual do to "fight", except give money to Calguns, and that can be done from anywhere in the country?

Whether in Sacramento, Oakland, or Emeryville, the anti-gun politicians turn a deaf ear to letters, email, arguments given in person, etc. and do whatever they want to do. There is nothing an individual can do directly to change the actions taken by the anti-gun politicians. They just don't care what you think, and they are in the majority.

The real "fight" is in the courts, not in the Legislature or city council chambers. Give money to Calguns so they can fight the battle where we have a chance of winning.

By staying in California and continuing to send your income tax $$$, sales tax $$$, property tax $$$, gasoline tax $$$, vehicle registration $$$, etc. etc. to state and local government, you are feeding and supporting the beast that is urinating on your rights, and delaying its inevitable collapse. Only the collapse of California's unsustainable welfare state will produce the conditions necessary to sweep the commissars out of power so the state can be fixed. By "staying and fighting" you are continuing to feed California's welfare state with your tax $$$ and keeping the beast alive that much longer.

If you can't leave, you're stuck, endure as best you can. But if you can leave, move to a place where you can enjoy your freedom TODAY, before you are too old to hold up a rifle or see the target. Send you tax $$$ to a state government that isn't oppressing you (as much). Send contributions to Calguns from your new home in a free state, so the real fight for gun rights can be fought in the only place where it can be won. :patriot:

BluNorthern
04-29-2010, 7:36 PM
By staying in California and continuing to send your income tax $$$, sales tax $$$, property tax $$$, gasoline tax $$$, vehicle registration $$$, etc. etc. to state and local government, you are feeding and supporting the beast that is urinating on your rights, and delaying its inevitable collapse. Only the collapse of California's unsustainable welfare state will produce the conditions necessary to sweep the commissars out of power so the state can be fixed. By "staying and fighting" you are continuing to feed California's welfare state with your tax $$$ and keeping the beast alive that much longer.

If you can't leave, you're stuck, endure as best you can. But if you can leave, move to a place where you can enjoy your freedom TODAY, before you are too old to hold up a rifle or see the target.
+1:thumbsup:

Hogxtz
04-29-2010, 7:54 PM
.
By staying in California and continuing to send your income tax $$$, sales tax $$$, property tax $$$, gasoline tax $$$, vehicle registration $$$, etc. etc. to state and local government, you are feeding and supporting the beast that is urinating on your rights, and delaying its inevitable collapse. .

.move to a place where you can enjoy your freedom TODAY, before you are too old to hold up a rifle or see the target. Send you tax $$$ to a state government that isn't oppressing you (as much). Send contributions to Calguns from your new home in a free state, so the real fight for gun rights can be fought in the only place where it can be won. :patriot:

AMEN BROTHER!!

harbinger007
04-29-2010, 8:00 PM
[QUOTE=harbinger007;4192068]
Dude, I'm in Ripon, my wife and I defected from The Bay in '76. If in wasn't for this town being a true "community", we would have bailed Kali long ago. The RPD is reviewing the facts before making a determination. Do you know what the situation was? Departments have to error on the side of caution, in order to make a solid case, they didn't cite the guy, they're "investigating". May be the victim has history. Wait for the details. I'm from Fremont and grew up renegade during the revolution, with all LOEs as my sworn mortal enemy, until I started raising my sons here. I have guns on wall racks and in glass display cases. In the 28 years we've live in Ripon, we've never locked the house or our cars. Kali does suck hard, and it's tough to make here, when it implodes soon, it's going to be interesting. PAX

Pal, I don't know the facts and it doesn't sound like you do either, yet you are finding it necessary to speculate about the situation. If the LOEs are still investigating, why is it necessary to make what is essentially an allegation:
suspicion that the victim needlessly escalated the situation

Putting statements like that out in public taints the image of the victim even if he is completely innocent and charges are never filed. Odds are that he won't have the legal resources our Ben Cannon had to help clear his name.

Havoc70
04-29-2010, 8:01 PM
My exit strategy is already in place, but I'm going to fight here and when I leave. Though I have to wonder if I will get pulled over more now, my avatar is the license plate I just ordered...

ImOverHere
04-29-2010, 8:04 PM
Whether in Sacramento, Oakland, or Emeryville, the anti-gun politicians turn a deaf ear to letters, email, arguments given in person, etc. and do whatever they want to do. There is nothing an individual can do directly to change the actions taken by the anti-gun politicians. They just don't care what you think, and they are in the majority.

If you can't leave, you're stuck, endure as best you can. But if you can leave, move to a place where you can enjoy your freedom TODAY, before you are too old to hold up a rifle or see the target. Send you tax $$$ to a state government that isn't oppressing you (as much).

Exactly right on both points, IMO.

I believe the course one takes is determined in part by their age and "place" in life. If I were 25yo again, I might feel differently. But being (~2x) older, I now choose to live somewhere I can exercise my 2A rights, and simply be somewhere where my social and political opinions aren't in the minority. Hopefully, someplace where my "representatives" are likely to be more responsive to my beliefs than someone who is dependent on cont'd. handouts from the gov't. to which I send taxes. Hopefully, someplace where there is not a sense of increasing gov'tl. control over my personal life and how I choose to live it.

EscapeFromCal
04-30-2010, 8:07 PM
but i do have plans for moving out in the future hopefully....where do you own a range and motocross track?[/QUOTE]

Idaho Panhandle.:)