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View Full Version : "police style" shot gun mount in vehicle?


destro360
04-21-2010, 8:04 PM
curious about back window gun racks you used to see in some older fellers' trucks and the legality of them?? also if the back window thing is legal could you legaly mount a shot gun in the same location the police have them?? of course un loaded ca legal guns. i did some research on this but did not get very much info.

cdtx2001
04-21-2010, 8:11 PM
No problem as long as you're not traveling through a school zone. Also, be prepared to be pulled over by the occasional LEO to make sure your evil guns are unloaded.

CSACANNONEER
04-21-2010, 8:14 PM
Why are you calling them "shotgun" racks? You could legally drive with any type of firearm hanging from the rack as long as it is unloaded and you are not in a school zone.

destro360
04-21-2010, 9:13 PM
Why are you calling them "shotgun" racks? You could legally drive with any type of firearm hanging from the rack as long as it is unloaded and you are not in a school zone.

i did not call the window rack a shotgun rack. i was referring to the mounts that police typically use for shotguns in the front of the vehicle... i have my off road toy that i do a lot of camping and backwoods exploring in and i thought it would be nice to mount my mossberg 500 in the same fashion for quick defense against bears etc. not to mention picking up fat chicks and such haha;)

destro360
04-21-2010, 9:14 PM
No problem as long as you're not traveling through a school zone. Also, be prepared to be pulled over by the occasional LEO to make sure your evil guns are unloaded.

thats my next concern because just driving past a school is considered a school zone.....

pullnshoot25
04-21-2010, 9:42 PM
You all do realize that long guns are exempt from the locking container rule in this state and Federal GFSZ is unenforceable unless you are pulled over by a Fed which pretty much can't happen since Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?

Doheny
04-21-2010, 9:46 PM
You all do realize that long guns are exempt from the locking container rule in this state and Federal GFSZ is unenforceable unless you are pulled over by a Fed which pretty much can't happen since Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?

Oh yeah?

Good to know.

:thumbsup:

sepiid
04-21-2010, 9:50 PM
PnS more details on this would be great. my curiosity is getting the best of me.

pullnshoot25
04-21-2010, 9:50 PM
Oh yeah, shameless plug...

CHECK THE FAQ IN MY SIG LINE!

tyrist
04-21-2010, 9:51 PM
You all do realize that long guns are exempt from the locking container rule in this state and Federal GFSZ is unenforceable unless you are pulled over by a Fed which pretty much can't happen since Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?

Please don't give out legal advice.

pullnshoot25
04-21-2010, 9:54 PM
Please don't give out legal advice.

Ummm... please don't assume that what I am saying is legal advice? :thumbsup:

I will be sure to clarify EVERYTHING for people such as yourself with a sigline disclaimer.

Cali-V
04-21-2010, 9:57 PM
In an urban area, the school zones would make non-locking racks, a little problematic... right...

tombinghamthegreat
04-21-2010, 10:27 PM
In an urban area, the school zones would make non-locking racks, a little problematic... right...

If pullandshoot is right(odds are might be) that the law is non enforceable the it would not be but that is untested and i am sure not advised by the CGF. If UOC ban becomes law then it really would not matter if federal law is enforceable or not.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=262028

But then again this person was not charged with a school zone violation

supersonic
04-21-2010, 10:32 PM
Check these out, I'm thinking of getting the bucket seat version for my car: http://www.fleetsafety.com/gun-racks/

-Scott

demnogis
04-21-2010, 11:38 PM
UOC ban is worded specifically for handguns and even re-words other penal codes to say "handgun".

If pullandshoot is right(odds are might be) that the law is non enforceable the it would not be but that is untested and i am sure not advised by the CGF. If UOC ban becomes law then it really would not matter if federal law is enforceable or not.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=262028

But then again this person was not charged with a school zone violation

POLICESTATE
04-21-2010, 11:51 PM
How about a locking vehicle gun mount? Like the kind the LEO's use already, lock up your unloaded long gun and keep it unloaded. Good for GFSZ? Could I actually drive around with my BB AR in the front of my car? :eek:

I could just see the state legislature dems having heart attacks, and if that were to actually happen I'd start doing it TOMORROW!

Still being pulled over all the time doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but it would get some looks I'm sure if I was cruising down the freeway with an AR up front between the seats. Or maybe not, I drive a white Crown Vic :rolleyes:

And let me clarify, I am not going to be doing this, just saying :)

wolff
04-22-2010, 12:55 AM
But it's still a damn PIG!:mad:

For fun, Mrs. Wolff and I will often sit and listen to SCOTUS oral arguments. (it really is fun!) We listened to U.S. v. Lopez a couple months ago; as well as the reading of the "sharply divided" decision.

Well, I just re-read the Bulls%*t that spewed forth from the "Gentleman from Wisconsin" (Kohl) on the Safe Schools Act, 1995 GFSZ, re-make: (to paraphrase) "This time it'll pass Constitutional muster, by golly.":rolleyes:

According to Congress, this new and improved GFSZ Act is Constitutional because (and I quote), it requires the "prosecutor prove that the gun brought to school `moved in or affected interstate commerce,.." In fact, during Oral Arguments in Lopez, Justice Scalia had asked if driving on a freeway within 1000' of a school would be a violation? (hint: it would have been!) So how, now, under the current GFSZ, in the Hell does Mr. Prosecutor find that my driving past a school with my 70 year old unloaded Winchester 60A .22LR single shot bolt action rifle in the rack of my pick `em up, constitutes an " explicit connection between the gun and interstate commerce"? And the Wisconsin Senator had the BALLS to conclude that the above-mentioned prosecutorial burden - the only change to the "old" GFSZ Act - will "assure the constitutionality of the act."
(I'm not kidding)

Frakking Bozos:mad:

Text of Congressional Record:
http://www.fau.edu/~tunick/courses/conlaw/gunlaw.html

I think my truck'll look mighty fine with a rack....

Brianguy
04-22-2010, 1:01 AM
I didn't know there were so many damn schools till after my first firearm purchase

JDay
04-22-2010, 1:18 AM
You all do realize that long guns are exempt from the locking container rule in this state and Federal GFSZ is unenforceable unless you are pulled over by a Fed which pretty much can't happen since Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?

Yep, there's even case law to support this. See City of Garden Grove v. Superior Court. Even though this case deals with medical marijuana the courts ruling is applicable to state enforcement of any federal law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Bill_420#City_of_Garden_Grove_v._Superior_C ourt

On December 1, 2008, the Supreme Court decided not to hear arguments in City of Garden Grove v. Superior Court of Orange County, leaving a lower court ruling standing which requires local police officers to enforce state law, not federal law. The case stems from a traffic stop of Felix Kha, who had 8.1 grams of medical marijuana in a container, which the police officers confiscated. The ruling requires police officers to return the seized medicine.[14]

JDay
04-22-2010, 1:21 AM
If pullandshoot is right(odds are might be) that the law is non enforceable the it would not be but that is untested and i am sure not advised by the CGF. If UOC ban becomes law then it really would not matter if federal law is enforceable or not.

UOC applies to openly carrying a handgun or other firearm capable of being concealed. Long guns are not considered to be concealable under state law. UOC also has nothing to do with transport of firearms, the law on that only applies to concealed handguns in your vehicle and loaded firearms in incorporated areas.

JDay
04-22-2010, 1:24 AM
Still being pulled over all the time doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but it would get some looks I'm sure if I was cruising down the freeway with an AR up front between the seats.

Could you imagine the officers defense should you file a lawsuit?

I observed the suspect legally transporting a firearm so I decided to pull him over.

wolff
04-22-2010, 3:37 AM
Could I actually drive around with my BB AR in the front of my car? :eek:
Still being pulled over all the time doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but it would get some looks I'm sure if I was cruising down the freeway with an AR up front between the seats.


How about a ring mount up by the sunroof :36:

OleCuss
04-22-2010, 4:23 AM
I want a turret!!!

destro360
04-22-2010, 6:39 AM
How about a locking vehicle gun mount? Like the kind the LEO's use already, lock up your unloaded long gun and keep it unloaded. Good for GFSZ? Could I actually drive around with my BB AR in the front of my car? :eek:

I could just see the state legislature dems having heart attacks, and if that were to actually happen I'd start doing it TOMORROW!

Still being pulled over all the time doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but it would get some looks I'm sure if I was cruising down the freeway with an AR up front between the seats. Or maybe not, I drive a white Crown Vic :rolleyes:

And let me clarify, I am not going to be doing this, just saying :)

thats what i meant the locking "police style" racks that mount from floor at the dash. ar? no shotgun? maybe.....

Glock22Fan
04-22-2010, 6:50 AM
Please don't give out legal advice.

You fo realize, I hope, that if we didn't give out advice, there would not be much of this forum left.

There's warnings all over the forum that nothing in this forum constitutes legal advice. Many of us also have it in sig lines.

supersonic
04-22-2010, 7:11 AM
And here are some more (scroll all the way down to the "HIGH SECURITY M4 RACK" - VERY COOL!:drool5:) : http://www.att-tactical.com/att_weapon_racks.html

CSACANNONEER
04-22-2010, 7:53 AM
i did not call the window rack a shotgun rack. i was referring to the mounts that police typically use for shotguns in the front of the vehicle... i have my off road toy that i do a lot of camping and backwoods exploring in and i thought it would be nice to mount my mossberg 500 in the same fashion for quick defense against bears etc. not to mention picking up fat chicks and such haha;)

Get a double one and keep both a shotgun and an AR just like almost every police car I see has. If you wanted too, you could even mount a rack to carry an unlocked, unloaded handgun in plain view. You just can't do it in school zones.

BigDogatPlay
04-22-2010, 8:31 AM
Well, I just re-read the Bulls%*t that spewed forth from the "Gentleman from Wisconsin" (Kohl) on the Safe Schools Act, 1995 GFSZ, re-make: (to paraphrase) "This time it'll pass Constitutional muster, by golly.":rolleyes:

Senator Kohl may have an MBA from Harvard, but he ain't a lawyer and the only thing he knows about what will and will not pass constitutional muster would pass for a rhetorical fart if any one of us said it.

:rolleyes: indeed.

Untamed1972
04-22-2010, 8:41 AM
And here are some more (scroll all the way down to the "HIGH SECURITY M4 RACK" - VERY COOL!:drool5:) : http://www.att-tactical.com/att_weapon_racks.html

Rack & Roll baby!! :punk:

bodger
04-22-2010, 8:47 AM
I have good old redneck gun rack in the back window of my Ford pickup. I keep a three foot mahogany spirit level on the top rack. :)

Mad Scotsman
04-22-2010, 9:03 AM
Check these out, I'm thinking of getting the bucket seat version for my car: http://www.fleetsafety.com/gun-racks/

-Scott

OOOOOOOO! I like the overhead mount. :)

hangman7
04-22-2010, 9:10 AM
http://www.santacruzgunlocks.com/index.html

GrizzlyGuy
04-22-2010, 9:15 AM
How about a locking vehicle gun mount? Like the kind the LEO's use already, lock up your unloaded long gun and keep it unloaded. Good for GFSZ? Could I actually drive around with my BB AR in the front of my car? :eek:

Yes, good for GFSZ. (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones) The state GFSZ law exempts long guns while they are being transported. The federal one does not, but allows for locking gun racks (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Law) in the exemptions:

(iii) that isó
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;

ripcurlksm
04-22-2010, 9:37 AM
And all this time i thought i had to lock my shotgun when driving through a school zone?

GrizzlyGuy
04-22-2010, 9:38 AM
And all this time i thought i had to lock my shotgun when driving through a school zone?

You do, see my post above, it is a requirement of the federal GFSZ law.

Maestro Pistolero
04-22-2010, 9:45 AM
Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?Not too sure about that. BATF will 'help' enforce state gun laws. My FFL buddy gave me some examples awhile back.

GrizzlyGuy
04-22-2010, 9:56 AM
The feds can enforce federal law, including the federal GFSZ law. Here is a pretty well-known example of them doing that in NH, although they (secret service guys not shown in the video) were nice and didn't arrest Kostric. The police chief of that city (Portsmouth) then arranged for him to stand at a church just outside the GFSZ: :)

rY1WJ4MsDJM

demnogis
04-22-2010, 9:58 AM
William Kostric also had a permit from his state to carry openly or concealed -- which would also exempt him from the Fed GFSZ laws. The SS guys were just harassing him.

Untamed1972
04-22-2010, 10:12 AM
"Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?"

Yeah.....and that's why there have been cases of BLM rangers confiscating OLLs they thought were AW's right? That's why rangers at the various off-roading areas will write you tickets for CVC violations or arrest you for DUI?

jnojr
04-22-2010, 11:16 AM
You all do realize that long guns are exempt from the locking container rule in this state and Federal GFSZ is unenforceable unless you are pulled over by a Fed which pretty much can't happen since Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?

Problem is, "unenforceable" doesn't mean you wave a magic wand at the cop who's taking you in, and he gives up and goes away.

It means you get arrested, post bail, face charges, and pay for an attorney. It means you go to court and maybe prison. Years later, a handful of judges rule on the technicality of the arrest. Best case for you, they let you go, and if it's a really good day, you get an apology. Most likely, though, you're bankrupted and left with a record. Meanwhile, no police officer or DA or judge is ever prosecuted or fired or in any way inconvenienced, because they cannot be expected to know every possible nuance of every law. That's a burden for us average citizens to bear.

destro360
04-22-2010, 11:19 AM
And here are some more (scroll all the way down to the "HIGH SECURITY M4 RACK" - VERY COOL!:drool5:) : http://www.att-tactical.com/att_weapon_racks.html

nice equipment there but kinda useless unless your leo :rolleyes:

metalhead357
04-22-2010, 12:18 PM
"Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?"

Yeah.....and that's why there have been cases of BLM rangers confiscating OLLs they thought were AW's right? That's why rangers at the various off-roading areas will write you tickets for CVC violations or arrest you for DUI?

Thats because its specifically BLM. Somewhere buried in thier codes IS the provision for them to enforce local & state regs. The Forest Service on the other hand is just the opposite-- NO provision (unless something's changed)....but all this is moot as I dunno of too many schools located on either BLM or NFS lands..........

xxsleepyxx
04-22-2010, 12:31 PM
Police will give you a police style shove

POLICESTATE
04-22-2010, 12:58 PM
Yes, good for GFSZ. (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones) The state GFSZ law exempts long guns while they are being transported. The federal one does not, but allows for locking gun racks (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Gun_Free_School_Zones#Law) in the exemptions:
(iii) that isó
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;

Does the trunk of a car constitute a locked container for the purposes of federal law?

GrizzlyGuy
04-22-2010, 3:36 PM
Does the trunk of a car constitute a locked container for the purposes of federal law?

I think so. The law doesn't define "locked container" and doesn't specifically exclude a trunk.

Over in the law for interstate transport (926A (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html)) it specifically excludes the glove compartment and console. So if they meant to exclude trunks in the GFSZ law, you'd think it would specifically do so.

franklinarmory
04-22-2010, 6:08 PM
Okay, I just read that Federal statute that you linked to. It would seem to me that a COE would fulfill the requirements of the Federal statute since the Feds neglected to specify the terms of the "license." (e.g. CCW) In order to get a COE, you'd have to be checked out by State DOJ and found to be legal to have "possession" of a firearm. I could be totally wrong here, so Idonno.....

POLICESTATE
04-23-2010, 8:33 AM
Give it a few more years, next thing you know we'll all need a COE just to breathe.

bwiese
04-23-2010, 8:41 AM
You all do realize that long guns are exempt from the locking container rule in this state and Federal GFSZ is unenforceable unless you are pulled over by a Fed which pretty much can't happen since Feds can't (or are at least not supposed to) enforce state/local laws?


Don't assume 100% lack of communications between Fed & state entities.

I know of incidences where, say, BATF has called DOJ after finding no Fed violation (and assumed a state violation) and vice versa.

Once you have an encounter with a LEO, you kinda have to assume any violation can or will be exposed to the relevant party (local/state/Fed).

metalhead357
04-23-2010, 10:37 AM
Don't assume 100% lack of communications between Fed & state entities.

I know of incidences where, say, BATF has called DOJ after finding no Fed violation (and assumed a state violation) and vice versa.

Once you have an encounter with a LEO, you kinda have to assume any violation can or will be exposed to the relevant party (local/state/Fed).

But Bill, just a question here, Doesnt' the law provide for the commission of a crime like this actually have to be done in the presence of the arresting officer? If the Fed aint there then off to court it might never go.......:confused:

tyrist
04-23-2010, 10:39 AM
Don't assume 100% lack of communications between Fed & state entities.

I know of incidences where, say, BATF has called DOJ after finding no Fed violation (and assumed a state violation) and vice versa.

Once you have an encounter with a LEO, you kinda have to assume any violation can or will be exposed to the relevant party (local/state/Fed).

He is confusing who detains you for the violation and who conducts the investigation. Violations of federal law will be investigated by federal authorities but local LE can still detain/arrest for violation.

ZombieTactics
04-23-2010, 10:44 AM
... fellers' ...
Who are you ... Yosemite Sam?

E Pluribus Unum
05-21-2010, 12:45 AM
Whoever says fed law enforcement officers cannot enforce state law are just wrong.


Ever heard of citizen's arrest?? If he witnesses you commit a crime, he can arrest you; maybe not under the color of authority as a peace officer.... but do not think he cannot slap cuffs on you and drag you to jail.

Big E
05-21-2010, 8:39 AM
Whoever says fed law enforcement officers cannot enforce state law are just wrong.


Ever heard of citizen's arrest?? If he witnesses you commit a crime, he can arrest you; maybe not under the color of authority as a peace officer.... but do not think he cannot slap cuffs on you and drag you to jail.

This has always been my understanding. They may never be seen again because everything get's handed over to the LEOs, except if called as a witness.

Aldemar
05-21-2010, 9:06 AM
Check these out, I'm thinking of getting the bucket seat version for my car: http://www.fleetsafety.com/gun-racks/

-Scott

Thanks for the link. Not really interested in the shotgun rack but this handgun safe really opened my eyes.

http://www.fleetsafety.com/Hand-Gun-Safe-507

Mount something like this in your trunk and you don't have to worry about going to carwashes, etc.

gunsmith
05-21-2010, 9:28 AM
Oh yeah?

Good to know.

:thumbsup:

really good to know!

paul0660
05-21-2010, 9:45 AM
Okay, I just read that Federal statute that you linked to. It would seem to me that a COE would fulfill the requirements of the Federal statute since the Feds neglected to specify the terms of the "license." (e.g. CCW) In order to get a COE, you'd have to be checked out by State DOJ and found to be legal to have "possession" of a firearm. I could be totally wrong here, so Idonno.....

That is well thought out, but I wonder if it would fly.

ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;


And this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
Still being pulled over all the time doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but it would get some looks I'm sure if I was cruising down the freeway with an AR up front between the seats.
Could you imagine the officers defense should you file a lawsuit?

Quote:
I observed the suspect legally transporting a firearm so I decided to pull him over.

Cops have the authority to do 12031(e) checks anytime.

Deamer
05-21-2010, 4:20 PM
When I have the cash and get off my butt I am going to buy the rollcage mount and mount it hanging below the cage on my wrangler.