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View Full Version : Purchasing NEW, modern handguns with 03 FFL + COE


P1X4R
04-21-2010, 6:20 PM
Once I obtain my 03 FFL+COE I will be exempt from the 1/30 new handgun rule. I will also be able to purchase multiple handguns. Is there a restriction as to how many I can DROS at one time? Say I want to do ten pistols. They will all be new, modern non-C&R pistols. Will this raise a flag? Should I get them in smaller batches? Thanks for any info.

ke6guj
04-21-2010, 6:24 PM
no, there isn't any limit (barring any physically data limitations of the DROS system with like 99+ handguns), you can DROS as many handguns as you want . If you DROS more than one handgun from a specific dealer within a 5-day period, the multiple purchases will be reported to BATF and local LE. But you aren't doing anything wrong, it shouldn't matter.

P1X4R
04-21-2010, 6:30 PM
i only plan on doing ten at one time then i'll wait a few months for a couple more. my wallet will need to recuperate for a while. :) definitely not within a 5 day period. thanks ke6guj!

ke6guj
04-21-2010, 6:34 PM
not sure If I made myself clear, those 10 you plan on doing at one time would be considered a 'multiple handgun purchase' since you would have bought more than 1 handgun in a 5-day period from one dealer. The dealer has to report that. But, you are buying them for personal use, it doesn't matter. The point of that form is to try and stop those people that would go in and buy 5, 10, 15 Glock 9mm's with the intent to flip them. That purchase would be reported to BATF, and if they looked at and saw that you bought 10 identical handguns, a red flag would probably go up to look into it further, because it is unlikely that someone would buy 10 Glock 17's for personal use. But, if you bought 10 different types of handguns, it doesn't look as likely that you would be dealing them.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf

littlejake
04-21-2010, 6:46 PM
Jack's correct. They report it to ATF. ATF is looking for people acting like dealers who are not properly licensed.

If you buy 10 and sell 9 rather quickly, expect a visit.

The 1 in 30 exception is not valid in certain municipalities that have their own 1 in 30 limit, such as the city of Los Angeles.

P1X4R
04-21-2010, 6:51 PM
ah, i see. yes, these would all be for my own personal use. there are no identical models in the bunch. a few from the same manufacturer but no duplicates except for a few that are of the same caliber.

i don't intend on becoming a full 01 FFL. just a hobbyist. i've been purchasing new handguns 1/30 for the last six months.

P1X4R
04-21-2010, 6:56 PM
The 1 in 30 exception is not valid in certain municipalities that have their own 1 in 30 limit, such as the city of Los Angeles.

i'm in Contra Costa. where can i look up whether my area is allowed or not?

P1X4R
04-26-2010, 10:16 AM
so i had my livescan done today at my local UPS store. unfortunately, i got three fingers that did not scan properly. looks like there are only so many retries that can be done. the operator said i will get a rejection letter. she said to take that letter back to them and they'll scan again free of charge.

ugh. a bit frustrating. :(

ke6guj
04-26-2010, 1:43 PM
they'll scan them again free of charge, but will they pay the CADOJ and ATF fees as well for a re-submittal. Or, do ATF and CADOJ allow for a re-submittal on the original payment?

P1X4R
04-26-2010, 2:03 PM
that's a good question. she did mention that i'd have to resubmit new forms. hmmm.. i have a feeling that i'll have to cough up the ATF/DOJ fees again for it. i may just go somewhere else.

P1X4R
04-26-2010, 2:07 PM
ok, i called the ATF and spoke with Judy. she said that i'll have to pay the fees again for the DOJ/FBI since i'm submitting new forms. i'll call up the UPS store to see if i can get it waived also.

P1X4R
04-26-2010, 2:12 PM
just got off the phone with the manager at the UPS store. he confirmed that i won't have to pay again the DOJ/FBI fees. whew! all good. :)

ke6guj
04-26-2010, 2:19 PM
good. Otherwise, I would be complaining about the system. If the operator knows that they aren't getting acceptable scans, why did they send them in the first place? Wasn't there the option to cancell the submittal before it was transmitted?

But it sounds like you'll get taken care of.

P1X4R
04-26-2010, 2:30 PM
my brother-in-law had similar results when he had his done at the police station as a job requirement. he said the scanning machine is pressure sensitive. the software she used scans it then gives it a success or fail. it definitely should wait until a good scan is taken then submit.

well, i'm glad i did this early enough before getting my 03 FFL.

7.62x54R
04-26-2010, 4:06 PM
Once I obtain my 03 FFL+COE I will be exempt from the 1/30 new handgun rule. I will also be able to purchase multiple handguns. Is there a restriction as to how many I can DROS at one time? Say I want to do ten pistols. They will all be new, modern non-C&R pistols. Will this raise a flag? Should I get them in smaller batches? Thanks for any info.

Good luck I asked Turners just to see if I could do it. They wont recognize 03+COE at all. Not on C&R rifle or handgun and no go on the 30 day exemption. This was chino hills Turners dont know if all of them would but I assume they would all be the same. One more reason for me to never buy anything from Turners.

Guess I will go to a more knowledgeable dealer

P1X4R
05-17-2010, 9:13 AM
i received my 03 FFL!! it took about a month to arrive. YES!!!!
now i'm just waiting for my COE do over.

P1X4R
05-22-2010, 9:37 AM
COE arrived yesterday! i'm good to go now! http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/yess.gif

P1X4R
06-04-2010, 10:05 AM
03FFL+COE

works like a charm! i'll pick up the rest in a few weeks. gotta give the wallet a break (for now). :)

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9563.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9562.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9561.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9559.jpg

ke6guj
06-04-2010, 12:25 PM
congrats.

P1X4R
06-05-2010, 5:42 PM
congrats.
thank you for being very helpful. http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/hi5.gif

AR-Ballistic
06-06-2010, 12:01 AM
Sheeesh... Wish I was a trust fund baby:innocent: Nice looking irons you got there bro. Congrats on the FFL buddy. Been a while since we talked LOL looks like you've been busy. Mike:D

03FFL+COE

works like a charm! i'll pick up the rest in a few weeks. gotta give the wallet a break (for now).

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9563.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9562.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9561.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/Guns/TMP/IMG_9559.jpg

P1X4R
06-06-2010, 1:08 AM
haha. thanks Mike!

i buy the real deal guns now. no more sci-fi replicas. well, there's a few exceptions. ;)

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh285/P1X4R_2008/TMP/IMG_4289.jpg

btw, when are you buying my lifesize Terminator? :D

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k143/P1X4R_2006/Sideshow%20Endoskeleton/Picture026.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k143/P1X4R_2006/Sideshow%20Endoskeleton/Picture029.jpg

slomofo
06-06-2010, 3:21 AM
Jack's correct. They report it to ATF. ATF is looking for people acting like dealers who are not properly licensed.

If you buy 10 and sell 9 rather quickly, expect a visit.

The 1 in 30 exception is not valid in certain municipalities that have their own 1 in 30 limit, such as the city of Los Angeles.



I hate to hijack a thread, but is this the same case with rifles? I buy roughly 15 rifles a year and usually end up selling 1 if I need the cash to fund a new purchase, but last year I sold two. Will ATF come bangin down my door someday?

WokMaster1
06-06-2010, 11:31 AM
I hate to hijack a thread, but is this the same case with rifles? I buy roughly 15 rifles a year and usually end up selling 1 if I need the cash to fund a new purchase, but last year I sold two. Will ATF come bangin down my door someday?

They are lining up outside your door now.:eek:

savasyn
06-06-2010, 1:28 PM
Good luck I asked Turners just to see if I could do it. They wont recognize 03+COE at all. Not on C&R rifle or handgun and no go on the 30 day exemption. This was chino hills Turners dont know if all of them would but I assume they would all be the same. One more reason for me to never buy anything from Turners.


I've done both C&R+COE 10 day wait exemptions on C&R handguns as well as multiple modern handgun purchases as the Redondo Beach Turners. It helps to have documentation to back you up if they don't already know.

I have yet to go to a store that fully understands the C&R+COE exemptions. I'm sure they are out there, but all the ones in my area need to be walked through it every time.

stitchnicklas
06-06-2010, 1:33 PM
i used my ffl03 and coe yesterday at centerfire in riverside and they gave me no fuss.... edited 6-11-10 never use this shop!!!!!! they screw people over on pricing vs. their internet sales site 34 buck mark up for walking in the door,bastards beware of this store run away

Cokebottle
06-06-2010, 1:38 PM
Good luck I asked Turners just to see if I could do it. They wont recognize 03+COE at all. Not on C&R rifle or handgun and no go on the 30 day exemption. This was chino hills Turners dont know if all of them would but I assume they would all be the same. One more reason for me to never buy anything from Turners.

Guess I will go to a more knowledgeable dealer
Yup.

Maybe not one more reason to avoid Turners, but certainly one more reason to avoid Chino Hills.

Picked up two handguns from them a few months ago, and the FUD that was dished out during the safe handling demonstration was astounding... AND dangerous. My wife was told one thing, I was told the other.
Wife was told that the gun has to be transported in a locked container WITH the DOJ trigger lock installed (ever try to get a revolver into a locking pistol case with the cylinder out and a padlock through it?).
I was told that the DOJ lock alone was GTG :eek:
It's not.

Of course, we were both told that the gun must be locked in the trunk, and the ammo must be in a separate locked container in the passenger compartment, preferably in the glove box.

Okay... when not on the bike, we both drive SUVs.
And ever try to get more than 100-200 rounds in a glove box?
Pure stupidity.

And all of this is on top of their 11-day waiting period, and $30 DROS ($5 dealer fee).


Someone needs to sit down with the store manager and a copy of the PC and give him an 8-hour class in gun laws, including 03/COE laws.

Midian
06-06-2010, 2:23 PM
haha. thanks Mike!

i buy the real deal guns now. no more sci-fi replicas. well, there's a few exceptions. ;)




You have to be a VFX guy. In my thirteen years in VFX, the only people I've ever met that buys this stuff (and can afford it) are the CG guys with disposable income.

plan-b
06-06-2010, 7:02 PM
Sorry to threadjack but I'm kind of curious if there are any other benefits to the 03 FFL & COE. The 1 in 30 exemption is nice, but are there any other perks for those who are more interested in modern stuff?

ke6guj
06-06-2010, 7:24 PM
Sorry to threadjack but I'm kind of curious if there are any other benefits to the 03 FFL & COE. The 1 in 30 exemption is nice, but are there any other perks for those who are more interested in modern stuff?

It has a very limited use in CA, but when used in conjuction with the C&R FFL, exempts you from the 10-day wait on C&R purchases (handguns and long guns) from a dealer (still must DROS it), and exempts you from the 1-in-30 handgun regulations for ALL handguns, modern and C&R.


When/If the mail-order ban portion of AB962 goes into effect, the C&R+COE combo will also allow you to do mail-order handgun ammo, provided the seller understands the exemtpion.

that's basically it.

Cokebottle
06-06-2010, 7:52 PM
Don't forget the ability to purchase 50+ y/o arms out of state and bring them home... only $19 to declare/DROS a handgun rather than the normal $25 DROS ($30 at Turner's).

Flyin Brian
06-06-2010, 11:27 PM
I've been lurking on this topic for a while and I'm going to ask for clarification on something that keeps confusing me to no end :P Here goes...

The "Open Letter" that comes with the C&R license has a few paragraphs describing what the definition of a collector is, etc, and has the following sentence under "LIMITATIONS":

"A Collector's license only enables the Collector to obtain curio or relic firearms interstate."
and,
"Licensed Collectors have no special privileges with regard to firearms that are not curios or relics."

So my question is, wouldn't the COE be enough on it's own to bypass the waiting period or the 1 in 30? Why is the C&R even needed in this case?

ke6guj
06-06-2010, 11:34 PM
I've been lurking on this topic for a while and I'm going to ask for clarification on something that keeps confusing me to no end :P Here goes...

The "Open Letter" that comes with the C&R license has a few paragraphs describing what the definition of a collector is, etc, and has the following sentence under "LIMITATIONS":

"A Collector's license only enables the Collector to obtain curio or relic firearms interstate."
and,
"Licensed Collectors have no special privileges with regard to firearms that are not curios or relics." that refers to federal "privledges". A state, city, or company may assign its own privledges to those that have a C&R FFL as long as they don't violate federal law.

So my question is, wouldn't the COE be enough on it's own to bypass the waiting period or the 1 in 30? Why is the C&R even needed in this case?not it wouldn't. Needed because CA law only extends the privledge to those that have both the C&R AND the COE.

Flyin Brian
06-06-2010, 11:59 PM
Interesting. Thanks for the reply.

plan-b
06-07-2010, 7:44 AM
It has a very limited use in CA, but when used in conjuction with the C&R FFL, exempts you from the 10-day wait on C&R purchases (handguns and long guns) from a dealer (still must DROS it), and exempts you from the 1-in-30 handgun regulations for ALL handguns, modern and C&R.


When/If the mail-order ban portion of AB962 goes into effect, the C&R+COE combo will also allow you to do mail-order handgun ammo, provided the seller understands the exemtpion.

that's basically it.

Well I don't typically mail order ammo and I'm not all that interested in C&R. But I guess if/when the roster is taken down, being exempt from 1 in 30 would be useful (gotta stock up before they find another way to enact roster 2.0).

beemaze
06-11-2010, 11:45 PM
My question is this. When the dealer DROSes multiple handguns for you since you have the 03 FFL/COE, how is the exception to one in 30 entered on the DROS? In other words, how does CA DOJ know that this going on so that you don't get a rejection from the DOJ on multiple handgun purchase?

P1X4R
06-12-2010, 6:17 AM
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/9907.pdf

P1X4R
06-12-2010, 6:34 AM
there's also a Multiple Purchase Reporting form that is sent to the BATF.

NotEnoughGuns
06-12-2010, 7:27 AM
If you have a just a C&R can you still have C&R handguns sent directly to you or do they have to be sent to an 01 FFL and you still wait 10 days?

And with the COE do they have to be sent to a 01 FFL just for the DROS but no 10 day wait?

Is this right?

Mssr. Eleganté
06-12-2010, 9:04 AM
If you have a just a C&R can you still have C&R handguns sent directly to you or do they have to be sent to an 01 FFL and you still wait 10 days?

And with the COE do they have to be sent to a 01 FFL just for the DROS but no 10 day wait?

Is this right?

All handguns being shipped in from out of state for transfer have to be sent to a California licensed dealer and must be DROS'd to the buyer. If the buyer has both a C&R FFL and a COE then the 10 day waiting period is waved for C&R firearms.

NotEnoughGuns
06-12-2010, 9:35 AM
I see, thanks

ETA: Is that the same for C&R handguns that are in the state already? Say shipped from within CA or at a gun show.

Mssr. Eleganté
06-12-2010, 12:44 PM
I see, thanks

ETA: Is that the same for C&R handguns that are in the state already? Say shipped from within CA or at a gun show.

Yes. All handgun transfers that take place within California have to go through a California licensed dealer. California considers a transfer that is being shipped in from the seller to be taking place within the State. If you actually travel outside of California for the transfer then it is cash and carry, since you are not affected by California law while you are out of the State (assuming you have a C&R FFL and are acquiring C&R firearms.)

NotEnoughGuns
06-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.

beemaze
06-12-2010, 3:58 PM
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/9907.pdf

That is the letter I was looking for. You are THE man. Thanks!