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captn_tyler
04-21-2010, 4:42 PM
I hope this is the right area for this.

I work with a felon who would like to go shooting with me. Whats the laws on this? I know they cant own/buy, and I would be with him and my guns at all times. So would this be allowed?

RedStripes
04-21-2010, 4:44 PM
bad idea dude

MrEd
04-21-2010, 4:47 PM
the second he as much as touches the gun he is then a felon in posetion and just added a felony to his record . At least he won't have to worry about making rent for a few years as he will be incarcerated if caught .

Ron-Solo
04-21-2010, 4:49 PM
.........and if you have knowledge he is a felon and provide him a weapon, technically you become an accessory to a felony.

Bad Karma all around

Havoc70
04-21-2010, 4:52 PM
Are you freakin' kidding me? You would seriously considering loaning a felon your gun? In your presence or not, it doesn't matter, It's another felony for him and possibly one for you.

Whatever gave you the idea this might be a remotely good idea?

captn_tyler
04-21-2010, 4:55 PM
Yeah Kinda what I figured, but had to ask, thats why we havent gone. I was unsure so I asked

Havoc70
04-21-2010, 4:56 PM
Well good for you for asking. Simple equation:

felon + gun = BAD IDEA.

AndrewMendez
04-21-2010, 4:57 PM
Welcome To Calguns!!!!

LazyBoy
04-21-2010, 5:00 PM
Welcome to Calguns!

Don't do it!

Doheny
04-21-2010, 5:03 PM
Just say no.

So, did he bring up the idea of shooting, or what?

liberty08
04-21-2010, 5:58 PM
I hope this is the right area for this.

I work with a felon who would like to go shooting with me. Whats the laws on this? I know they cant own/buy, and I would be with him and my guns at all times. So would this be allowed?

Not that it matters but what was his felony for?

Jwood562
04-21-2010, 6:01 PM
haha the felon is luring you to the boonies with loaded guns! did he remind you to bring the shovel too?

but seriously re-thinks your plans.

What felony was he convicted of? curious minds want to know

BigDogatPlay
04-21-2010, 6:06 PM
Welcome to CGN.... rough way to make an entrance. ;)

But seriously... your friend even handling a single round of ammunition makes him a felon in possession. Do not mess with it.

Kerplow
04-21-2010, 6:08 PM
a guy with a felony in one of my classes keeps asking me to go shooting. all i can say is sorry, no dice.

he got popped with one pill of ecstasy some years ago and i guess they threw the book at him.

i know he's not violent or dangerous or has any malicious intentions, but the answer stays the same: NO DICE!

it just dang ol' taint worth it, man.

smarter
04-21-2010, 6:17 PM
Felons can't hold, touch, or even breath in the same room as a firearm, let alone go shooting. Don't do it if you value your freedom. Maybe airsoft?

Fjold
04-21-2010, 6:29 PM
a guy with a felony in one of my classes keeps asking me to go shooting. all i can say is sorry, no dice.

he got popped with one pill of ecstasy some years ago and i guess they threw the book at him.

i know he's not violent or dangerous or has any malicious intentions, but the answer stays the same: NO DICE!

it just dang ol' taint worth it, man.

Remember, felons lie.

I had a guy tell me the same story, he got popped for one tab of something so I got curious and looked up his record. Trafficking cocaine > 5 Kilos.

Bill Carson
04-21-2010, 6:44 PM
I only had two beers ossifer. Maybe he isn't a felon maybe he is a just ex-felon. Maybe you should not tell felons or ex-felons that you own guns.

destro360
04-21-2010, 7:31 PM
maybe he was at a gun range with with his legal ar-15 that had a malfunction from worn internals that put off more then one round with a single pull? a concerned citizen placed him under citizens arrest and call leo. now he is a "felon" for possessing a machine gun. :36: but on another note i have the same question regarding a guy who was at a friends house shooting a while back. it came up in conversation that he had a 3 year "NO CONTACT ORDER" with his ex wife and for the remaining 2 years he could not legally own a fire arm. do the same rules apply to him? found that to be an interesting situation...

santacruzstefan
04-21-2010, 7:41 PM
Yeah, what about other prohibited persons, such as those who had a 5150 a few years ago?

GrizzlyGuy
04-21-2010, 7:51 PM
Yeah, what about other prohibited persons, such as those who had a 5150 a few years ago?

Same answer (real bad idea), from the FAQ: Can I loan a firearm to a prohibited person? (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Faq#Can_I_loan_a_firearm_to_a_prohibited_person.3F )

Trendkill
04-21-2010, 9:56 PM
Does anyone here think its just stupid to put such restrictions on people that have been released back into society..???

If they are free...and if they have paid their debt to society (so to speak)...why are they not restored all their God given rights....especially that of self-protection...??

And if they arent quite on the up and up....you know...still scary to let out..why are they let out...???

pullnshoot25
04-21-2010, 9:58 PM
If you guys REALLY have to go shooting, just go shoot some airguns.

Quackenbush makes some *****IN pieces.

pullnshoot25
04-21-2010, 9:58 PM
Does anyone here think its just stupid to put such restrictions on people that have been released back into society..???

If they are free...and if they have paid their debt to society (so to speak)...why are they not restored all their God given rights....especially that of self-protection...??

And if they arent quite on the up and up....you know...still scary to let out..why are they let out...???

YES.

Wild Squid
04-21-2010, 10:39 PM
My experience with the few felons that I have known personally over my years is that once a felon, always a felon. They have done some hard time and are hardened beyond saving. Some can land a good job but will be back on the crack pipe or whatever inside a year. Some will all of a sudden threaten someone's life, woman, or property out of the blue just like that. They are highly unpredictable. And you want to hand him a loaded gun at a gun range?

Sinixstar
04-21-2010, 10:43 PM
I hope this is the right area for this.

I work with a felon who would like to go shooting with me. Whats the laws on this? I know they cant own/buy, and I would be with him and my guns at all times. So would this be allowed?

Negatory.
Felons are not allowed near guns, period.

The minute he touches a gun, he's committed a crime - and you have committed a crime by giving it to him.

Tell him if he wants to go shooting, petition the courts to have his rights restored.

Wild Squid
04-21-2010, 10:46 PM
Also some people are easily seduced or befriended by felons-ex felons whatever. I don't know why it is, maybe they just think it's so cool how this hard dude who's done prison time could be so friendly and probably never deserved to be in prison in the first place.

bigcalidave
04-21-2010, 10:54 PM
It's so entertaining when people with <10 posts make wonderful posts like this... Please, we like our members to stay out of jail and be happy!!!

Sinixstar
04-21-2010, 10:57 PM
Also some people are easily seduced or befriended by felons-ex felons whatever. I don't know why it is, maybe they just think it's so cool how this hard dude who's done prison time could be so friendly and probably never deserved to be in prison in the first place.


holy hell dude - lighten up.

Martha Stewart is a freakin convicted felon. You really think queen cupcake is gonna jump across the table and shank ya at lunch?

Better make sure you're carryin if she's around - you never know with them...

Wild Squid
04-22-2010, 12:38 AM
holy hell dude - lighten up.

Martha Stewart is a freakin convicted felon. You really think queen cupcake is gonna jump across the table and shank ya at lunch?

Better make sure you're carryin if she's around - you never know with them...

Umm yea, ok, like I would really be afraid of Martha Stewart. But your sarcasm does not impress me. You know what kind of felons I'm talking about. If not, then well, I can't help you.

Sinixstar
04-22-2010, 12:40 AM
Umm yea, ok, like I would really be afraid of Martha Stewart. But your sarcasm does not impress me. You know what kind of felons I'm talking about. If not, then well, I can't help you.

No - actually I don't know "what kind" you're talking about, because you're making blanket generalizations.

JDay
04-22-2010, 1:30 AM
He can legally go shooting with you if he successfully petitions to get his rights restored.

juicemansam
04-22-2010, 1:50 AM
Remember, felons lie.

I had a guy tell me the same story, he got popped for one tab of something so I got curious and looked up his record. Trafficking cocaine > 5 Kilos.

They could also be looking to set you up for something.

JDay
04-22-2010, 1:55 AM
he got popped with one pill of ecstasy some years ago and i guess they threw the book at him.

That's a simple possession charge unless he got caught selling it.

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/cal_ecstasy_law.htm

MDMA's Current Legal Status in California

MDMA is *not* an explicitly scheduled substance in California. Rather, prosecutors treat MDMA as a "controlled substance analog." If a prosecutor succeeds in proving this, then the MDMA is treated just like a Schedule I controlled substance.

California Punishment for MDMA ("Ecstasy") Offenses

Possession of MDMA

A person convicted of possessing a personal use amount of MDMA in California faces a maximum of 1 year in the county jail or state prison. It is almost unheard of for a judge to actually impose such harsh sentence. If the person meets six criteria the prosecutor is required to refer the case to Diversion. The six criteria for Diversion are:

(1) The defendant has no conviction for any offense involving controlled substances prior to the alleged commission of the charged offense.

(2) The offense charged did not involve a crime of violence or threatened violence.

(3) There is no evidence of a violation relating to narcotics or restricted dangerous drugs other than a violation of the sections listed in this subdivision.

(4) The defendant's record does not indicate that probation or parole has ever been revoked without thereafter being completed.

(5) The defendant's record does not indicate that he or she has successfully completed or been terminated from diversion or deferred entry of judgment pursuant to this chapter within five years prior to the alleged commission of the charged offense.

(6) The defendant has no prior felony conviction within five years prior to the alleged commission of the charged offense.

(See Pen. Code. Sec. 1000; For more about California’s diversion program read this article by Jeff Brown of the San Francisco Public Defender’s Office.)

If a person is eligible for Diversion they are able to enter a conditional plea of guilty and if they then successfully complete the diversion program (usually “drug education” classes) the plea is set aside. This means that they do not receive a criminal record.

Possession of MDMA with Intent to Sell

Punishment for possession of MDMA with intent to sell is governed by section 11378 of the California Health and Safety Code. Along with Penal Code Section 18, the punishment is a state prison term of 16 months, or two years, or three years. Diversion is not an option.

JDay
04-22-2010, 2:00 AM
Yeah, what about other prohibited persons, such as those who had a 5150 a few years ago?

A 5150 is just a hold for observation, nothing more.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5150-5157

5150. When any person, as a result of mental disorder, is a danger
to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled, a peace
officer, member of the attending staff, as defined by regulation, of
an evaluation facility designated by the county, designated members
of a mobile crisis team provided by Section 5651.7, or other
professional person designated by the county may, upon probable
cause, take, or cause to be taken, the person into custody and place
him or her in a facility designated by the county and approved by the
State Department of Mental Health as a facility for 72-hour
treatment and evaluation.
Such facility shall require an application in writing stating the
circumstances under which the person's condition was called to the
attention of the officer, member of the attending staff, or
professional person, and stating that the officer, member of the
attending staff, or professional person has probable cause to believe
that the person is, as a result of mental disorder, a danger to
others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled. If the
probable cause is based on the statement of a person other than the
officer, member of the attending staff, or professional person, such
person shall be liable in a civil action for intentionally giving a
statement which he or she knows to be false.

JDay
04-22-2010, 2:04 AM
Does anyone here think its just stupid to put such restrictions on people that have been released back into society..???

If they are free...and if they have paid their debt to society (so to speak)...why are they not restored all their God given rights....especially that of self-protection...??

And if they arent quite on the up and up....you know...still scary to let out..why are they let out...???

Yes it is, once someone has been released and completes their parole they should have all rights restored. If they're going to break the law they will get a gun regardless.

santacruzstefan
04-22-2010, 2:11 AM
A 5150 is just a hold for observation, nothing more.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5150-5157

Well, my roommate bought a Glock at the same time I did a week or so ago. I helped him fill out the paperwork, and on the "mental hospital" question, he started to answer yes. But we looked at the instructions, and it said only if ordered by a judge; he was self admitted, and was held for 72 hours. The cops weren't involved. Long story short, he was denied the other day. Its been almost 5 years since, and I guess at the 5 year mark, he's good to go again, but until then, police/judge involved or not, anyone with a 5150 or related is prohibited. Its just a bummer that he can't come shoot mine when I pick it up. What also sucks, is he had rented guns at this one range, before knowing he was prohibited. So, I guess he committed a felony without knowing it.

Sinixstar
04-22-2010, 2:12 AM
Does anyone here think its just stupid to put such restrictions on people that have been released back into society..???

If they are free...and if they have paid their debt to society (so to speak)...why are they not restored all their God given rights....especially that of self-protection...??

And if they arent quite on the up and up....you know...still scary to let out..why are they let out...???

So when the child predator who's just out of jail after showing a history of raping teenage girls wants to babysit your daughter while you're outta town - that's cool, right?

santacruzstefan
04-22-2010, 2:16 AM
So when the child predator who's just out of jail after showing a history of raping teenage girls wants to babysit your daughter while you're outta town - that's cool, right?

Certain people deserve second chances, because most folks are capable of turning their lives around. Some, such as serial killers and child molesters (aka sociopath/psychopaths) aren't because their brain lacks the capacity for empathy. Therefore, the example you give here is a bad one. But I know first hand that some types of former criminals can change.

johnthomas
04-22-2010, 2:16 AM
Does anyone here think its just stupid to put such restrictions on people that have been released back into society..???

If they are free...and if they have paid their debt to society (so to speak)...why are they not restored all their God given rights....especially that of self-protection...??

And if they arent quite on the up and up....you know...still scary to let out..why are they let out...???

No, I don't think it is a bad idea. Given the current economic times, people are getting shorter terms, some being release early. God given rights? OK, but a felon gives up those rights, he knows he is giving up his rights but becomes a felon in spite of what he is giving up. I myself, would rather see an unarmed ex-felon than one with a gun. An ex-felon can hire a lawyer and see what can be done about his record or get his rights restored.

Sinixstar
04-22-2010, 2:21 AM
Certain people deserve second chances, because most folks are capable of turning their lives around. Some, such as serial killers and child molesters (aka sociopath/psychopaths) aren't because their brain lacks the capacity for empathy. Therefore, the example you give here is a bad one. But I know first hand that some types of former criminals can change.

So what you're saying - is that before an individuals full rights are restored - it should be examined on a case-by-case basis? Such a mechanism would require a petition for review to have rights restored. Maybe after such a period of good behavior is demonstrated, the courts could grant restoration....

imagine that.

edit:
Not trying to be a ***** - I agree that there should be a means for people to have their rights restored. Not all crimes are created equal. There's a big difference between a gangbanger with multiple drug and weapons charges along with a history of violence, and a young drunk stupid kid who showed a lack of judgment one night and caught a case. Problem is - it get really difficult to separate the two sometimes. If you've shown such a lack of judgment to find yourself in jail for a period of time, your judgment in other areas should come into question as well. Maybe it's not entirely fair - but very few things in life really are.

santacruzstefan
04-22-2010, 2:28 AM
So what you're saying - is that before an individuals full rights are restored - it should be examined on a case-by-case basis? Such a mechanism would require a petition for review to have rights restored. Maybe after such a period of good behavior is demonstrated, the courts could grant restoration....

imagine that.

Of course good behavior needs to be demonstrated. I don't think anyone would suggest handing a felon a gun as they walk out the gate. But they shouldn't be barred for life. Of course, I personally believe child molesters, murderers, even folks who kill people while drunk driving, should be shot by firing squad, so it eliminates a good number of potential repeat offenders who shouldn't have guns. But once someone has demonstrated that they are again productive members of society, by all means let them vote/ own guns. Otherwise, they are forever doomed to be second-class citizens, even once they have made amends for their crimes.

Sinixstar
04-22-2010, 2:30 AM
Of course good behavior needs to be demonstrated. I don't think anyone would suggest handing a felon a gun as they walk out the gate. But they shouldn't be barred for life. Of course, I personally believe child molesters, murderers, even folks who kill people while drunk driving, should be shot by firing squad, so it eliminates a good number of potential repeat offenders who shouldn't have guns. But once someone has demonstrated that they are again productive members of society, by all means let them vote/ own guns. Otherwise, they are forever doomed to be second-class citizens, even once they have made amends for their crimes.

and you are aware that felons can petition the courts to have their rights restored, after a period of time (varies by state). Correct?

santacruzstefan
04-22-2010, 2:33 AM
and you are aware that felons can petition the courts to have their rights restored, after a period of time (varies by state). Correct?

sure, but I was under the impression that it was a long, drawn out process that sometimes required a pardon from the Governor. If it were streamlined, or automatic depending on the crime and perhaps some kind of proof of rehabilitation or "upstanding-ness", it would be better. Then again, asking for anything simple and streamlined from the govt is damn near impossible...:rolleyes:

Sinixstar
04-22-2010, 2:46 AM
sure, but I was under the impression that it was a long, drawn out process that sometimes required a pardon from the Governor. If it were streamlined, or automatic depending on the crime and perhaps some kind of proof of rehabilitation or "upstanding-ness", it would be better. Then again, asking for anything simple and streamlined from the govt is damn near impossible...:rolleyes:

Yea - i think this is just one of those cases where 'better safe then sorry'. To some degree it sucks, but on the other hand - don't do the crime if you can't do the time. that's simply part of the punishment that comes with certain crimes.

JDay
04-22-2010, 5:48 AM
Well, my roommate bought a Glock at the same time I did a week or so ago. I helped him fill out the paperwork, and on the "mental hospital" question, he started to answer yes. But we looked at the instructions, and it said only if ordered by a judge; he was self admitted, and was held for 72 hours. The cops weren't involved. Long story short, he was denied the other day. Its been almost 5 years since, and I guess at the 5 year mark, he's good to go again, but until then, police/judge involved or not, anyone with a 5150 or related is prohibited. Its just a bummer that he can't come shoot mine when I pick it up. What also sucks, is he had rented guns at this one range, before knowing he was prohibited. So, I guess he committed a felony without knowing it.

No they are not, a 5150 does not involve a court order. The whole purpose of a 5150 hold is to figure out if you need to be in a mental hospital. There's more to this story than your roommate is telling you. As for him committing a felony without knowing it, that's just not possible. He would have done hard time, unless he wasn't caught in which case there would be no record of it. Did he even call DOJ to find out why his DROS was denied? Sometimes you can get denied because a prohibited person has the same name.

Big Jake
04-22-2010, 5:55 AM
Run for the hills and don't even consider letting this guy around your guns or you will be roommates courtesy of the state!

not-fishing
04-22-2010, 6:47 AM
There is a way.

I had a friend who was a felon (now deceased) who loved to hunt. He was convicted on a business code violation and could not own weapons.

So he duck hunted in Argentina every year. His shotguns were sent ahead to the lodge and kept their.

All your friend has to do is make a few million and be able to get out of the country when he wants to shoot otherwise he's out of luck, just like the rest of us po' folk.

M1A Rifleman
04-22-2010, 6:49 AM
Judged by the company your keep...:whistling:

Trendkill
04-22-2010, 5:49 PM
So when the child predator who's just out of jail after showing a history of raping teenage girls wants to babysit your daughter while you're outta town - that's cool, right?


I think you entirely missed the point didnt ya..???


If they arent ready to let go....DONT LET THEM GO!!!!! I personally believe child predators should never be released....but our judicial system has its own set of rules huh..???

Trendkill
04-22-2010, 5:55 PM
No, I don't think it is a bad idea. Given the current economic times, people are getting shorter terms, some being release early. God given rights? OK, but a felon gives up those rights, he knows he is giving up his rights but becomes a felon in spite of what he is giving up. I myself, would rather see an unarmed ex-felon than one with a gun. An ex-felon can hire a lawyer and see what can be done about his record or get his rights restored.


Your logic is flawed.....you are assuming that telling a released felon to stay away from guns is sufficient. How many times do we have to hear about some cop being shot by a parolee...or a family getting murdered by some ex-felon..???


Assumptions get people dead....

bubbapug1
04-22-2010, 6:32 PM
I know a lot of felons that are a lot more honest and open minded than the born agains I know.

There are a lot of laws which make honest hard working, god fearing people felons...like owning an AR or AK prior to the ban, being out of the country for a year, than coming back to find out...vwalla...your a potential felon.

Tell me how that makes you a liar, a cheat, and a very evil fellow??

True, you can't let a felon handle a gun, but you also cannot look at very felon and think they are the next Charlie Manson either.

anthonyca
04-22-2010, 7:27 PM
and you are aware that felons can petition the courts to have their rights restored, after a period of time (varies by state). Correct?

Isn't it ironic that one with a misdemeanor DV can not?

ENVYGREEN
04-22-2010, 8:48 PM
I know a lot of felons that are a lot more honest and open minded than the born agains I know.

There are a lot of laws which make honest hard working, god fearing people felons...like owning an AR or AK prior to the ban, being out of the country for a year, than coming back to find out...walla...your a potential felon.

Tell me how that makes you a liar, a cheat, and a very evil fellow??

True, you can't let a felon handle a gun, but you also cannot look at very felon and think they are the next Charlie Manson either.

It's voila and when you say it don't say it like walla, its more like vwalla, for some reason people on tv and commercials can't get it right either

Ron-Solo
04-22-2010, 9:15 PM
It is very hard to catch a felony in California. By the time the average person gets convicted of a felony, they've been in the justice system for some time.

While in prison, they learn how to lie, cheat, and manipulate people.

And one pill will get you diversion and the case will be dismissed when you complete diversion.

Step into the real world.

bubbapug1
04-22-2010, 10:46 PM
It is very hard to catch a felony in California. By the time the average person gets convicted of a felony, they've been in the justice system for some time.

While in prison, they learn how to lie, cheat, and manipulate people.

And one pill will get you diversion and the case will be dismissed when you complete diversion.

Step into the real world.

That depends on where you get busted, tried, how much your lawyer charges and the skin color you have...

rodent.22
04-22-2010, 11:18 PM
God help you or your family members if you are sucked into the supposed ''JUSTICE SYSTEM''. The justice system is a huge industry that MUST BE FED, and the judges and prosecutors are there to feed it. The only difference between the ones inside the bars and those on the outside is one step. What I've seen when serving during jury duty is enough to make you sick. The ''us against them'' mentality in the system is awful. I'm sure that many people convicted of a felony deserve to be put away forever. But take a 18 year old kid with a non-violent offense, lock him up for a couple of years, take his drivers license, mark ALL his records forever FELON, don't forget the credit bureaus also, then when you release the kid, lock him up again for not having a job within 7 days. Who hires a felon, no drivers license ? Sure- hire an attorney and get your rights restored.....What planet are you living on??? This is NOT sarcasm- its fact. A misdemeanor in your state might be a felony in mine, where's the justice in that? Explain that justice system....please.

Falstaff
04-22-2010, 11:42 PM
Tell your friend to file 17b and 1203 motions with the court/courts he was convicted in. IF his "felony" was what's called a "wobbler" ie; the DA could have charged him with a misdameanor (if he was rich and connected) or a felony (if he was a regular joe without ability to fight) he can have all his rights (including firearms) restored. If he served time in the state prison, the 17b motion is not possible. If his felony was DV related he's outta luck there too. But if it was actually a "minor" offense, and he was not sentenced to prison, odds are he can get his rights restored.

Theres a thread on this in the best of forum. Very informative BTW.

goodlookin1
04-23-2010, 6:09 AM
Let's be clear here: There are many different ways to get a felony. Some are completely legit, others....not so much. I believe anyone that was intentionally breaking the law, like murder, rape, robbery, selling drugs, theft (not petty), etc, should receive their due reward: Felony. That being said, I know someone that should be considered a felon.....but by complete accident.

The first time my buddy went out with his AR-15, he had accidentally and unknowingly installed the hammer spring upside-down. He put about 40-50 rounds down the pipe without issue when he got a two round burst! By law, he should have been a felon in possession of an unregistered/unlicensed automatic rifle, no? I feel this would be a much undeserved sentence (or any sentence for that matter). I am sure there have been many felony convictions for ridiculous things. Needless to say, he unloaded the rifle and put it down right quick and didnt shoot anymore that day. Later, we figured out what caused the malfunction.

All I'm saying is just because your coworker is a felon, doesnt mean he's gonna go on a shooting rampage if he went out to the range.

But that being said....DONT DO IT!!! You would be aiding a felon if you did. Regardless of how petty his crime might have been, he is still a felon and until he gets his rights back by the courts, he's a no-go.

CSACANNONEER
04-23-2010, 6:43 AM
My experience with the few felons that I have known personally over my years is that once a felon, always a felon. They have done some hard time and are hardened beyond saving.

You're right. Anyone who has ever been convicted of felony tax evasion, or any other white collar felony is past saving. Of course, there are many 70+ year old shooters in Ca who never registered their AWs for various reasons. Maybe, they never even knew that the flash hider on their stock M1A could land them in prision. What if one of them pleads guilty to a felony? Will they
automatically start smoking crack and doing hard time? Your idea of what a felon is is exceptionally narrow minded. I'm willing to bet that a large percentage of felony convictions never do "hard time". I say that because, I've know several people, convicted of felonies, who have done a small amount of time in county lock up and that's it. Many people have spent days, weeks or months in county and never have been convicted of a thing. Matt Cowen spent more time locked up that a guy I work with who was convicted of multiple felonies after a bar fight. In your opinion, is Matt past saving just because he could not afford to be bailed out when he was arrested and charged with crimes which he did not commit?

LBJOE
04-23-2010, 10:17 AM
He can legally go shooting with you if he successfully petitions to get his rights restored.


:iagree:
what he said

pepsi2451
04-23-2010, 11:16 AM
With all the ridiculous gun laws that could make someone a felon without them even knowing, I would think people on this site wouldn't be so quick to call all felons bad.

I know a guy who ordered some tracer rounds a few years ago. He didn't know they where illegal he was just reading cheaper than dirt or one of those catalogs and he saw some tracers rounds and thought he would try a box. They shipped them right to his house. If I hadn't told him they where illegal he wouldn't have known he broke the law. He disposed of them as soon as I told him. If he had been caught should he have lost his gun rights?

With all the laws we have now someone could become a felon without doing anything violent or even morally wrong.

KylaGWolf
04-23-2010, 12:39 PM
Does anyone here think its just stupid to put such restrictions on people that have been released back into society..???

If they are free...and if they have paid their debt to society (so to speak)...why are they not restored all their God given rights....especially that of self-protection...??

And if they arent quite on the up and up....you know...still scary to let out..why are they let out...???

No I don't think its stupid.

KylaGWolf
04-23-2010, 12:43 PM
Your logic is flawed.....you are assuming that telling a released felon to stay away from guns is sufficient. How many times do we have to hear about some cop being shot by a parolee...or a family getting murdered by some ex-felon..???


Assumptions get people dead....

Usually a felon KNOWS they are not allowed to have guns or possession of one. On another post you asked why they are let out most of the time it is because they have finished their sentence or paroled. Yes every once in a while someone that has committed a felony changes and straightens out and gets their conviction overturned and their rights restored. If that isn't the case I will still say they have no rights to using a gun.

haodoken
04-23-2010, 12:53 PM
Does anyone here think its just stupid to put such restrictions on people that have been released back into society..???

If they are free...and if they have paid their debt to society (so to speak)...why are they not restored all their God given rights....especially that of self-protection...??

And if they arent quite on the up and up....you know...still scary to let out..why are they let out...???

It's call no state budget. 25-30k prisoners are getting earlier parole since no money to keep them in jail/prison. Not because they have been "rehabilitated". Criminals NEVER repay their debt to society. :mad:

haodoken
04-23-2010, 1:08 PM
It is very hard to catch a felony in California. By the time the average person gets convicted of a felony, they've been in the justice system for some time.

Exactly! It's hard to get a FELONY. Often charges are plead down to a lesser offense. It's all too common in the courts.

If the temptation to break the law is too great, then you should be prepared for the consequences. People these days don't think about the ramfiications of their actions and refuse to accept responsibility. :mad:

I've learned to stay away from convicted criminals in general. You should stay far away from the FELON.

steelrain82
04-23-2010, 1:12 PM
I hate how everybody thinks oh a felon and than the person is instantly a child molestor or some hardcore criminal

SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
04-23-2010, 1:18 PM
just take him paintballing.

winnre
04-23-2010, 1:36 PM
sure, but I was under the impression that it was a long, drawn out process that sometimes required a pardon from the Governor. If it were streamlined, or automatic depending on the crime and perhaps some kind of proof of rehabilitation or "upstanding-ness", it would be better. Then again, asking for anything simple and streamlined from the govt is damn near impossible...:rolleyes:

Forget about the pardon. Google for lawyers who specialize in 17b and 1203.4. Find out of the felony is a wobbler. Most the attorneys will give you free time for a first consultation. There's nothing to lose!

Trendkill
04-23-2010, 5:15 PM
Usually a felon KNOWS they are not allowed to have guns or possession of one. On another post you asked why they are let out most of the time it is because they have finished their sentence or paroled. Yes every once in a while someone that has committed a felony changes and straightens out and gets their conviction overturned and their rights restored. If that isn't the case I will still say they have no rights to using a gun.


You...and everyone else is still not showing me how this is done exactly...???

How do you release an unreformed felon into society and just assume they will be a good boy from here on out because they are told to not posess guns weapons etc etc etc..??



Here's the deal....

Either keep em locked up or restore their rights when released , because if anyone wants a gun and intends to do malice they will get one anyways. If people cant grasp that , then they must be the same people that think -

1. Background checks keep guns away from unreformed felons

2. AB962 will keep ammo out of the hands of unreformed felons....

3. Gun shows are where unreformed felons get most of their guns...

4. Assault weapon bans are effective because unreformed felons and criminals often use rifles to commit crimes.

5. If youre gun gets stolen by an unreformed felon its your fault.

6. When unreformed felons are given a set of rules , they will comply.

7. I feel safe knowing there are restrictions put on unreformed felons , even though it wont stop them from getting guns even a little bit. And feeling safe in my head is all that matters regardless of what reality and logic has to say.

8. "Gun Free" school zones are an effective measure to keep unreformed felons , gangbangers and criminals from taking guns on school grounds and doing harm to innocents.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7386862&rss=rss-kgo-article-7386862



.

KylaGWolf
04-23-2010, 11:36 PM
You...and everyone else is still not showing me how this is done exactly...???

How do you release an unreformed felon into society and just assume they will be a good boy from here on out because they are told to not posess guns weapons etc etc etc..??



Here's the deal....

Either keep em locked up or restore their rights when released , because if anyone wants a gun and intends to do malice they will get one anyways. If people cant grasp that , then they must be the same people that think -

1. Background checks keep guns away from unreformed felons

2. AB962 will keep ammo out of the hands of unreformed felons....

3. Gun shows are where unreformed felons get most of their guns...

4. Assault weapon bans are effective because unreformed felons and criminals often use rifles to commit crimes.

5. If youre gun gets stolen by an unreformed felon its your fault.

6. When unreformed felons are given a set of rules , they will comply.

7. I feel safe knowing there are restrictions put on unreformed felons , even though it wont stop them from getting guns even a little bit. And feeling safe in my head is all that matters regardless of what reality and logic has to say.

8. "Gun Free" school zones are an effective measure to keep unreformed felons , gangbangers and criminals from taking guns on school grounds and doing harm to innocents.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7386862&rss=rss-kgo-article-7386862



.

You can have your rights restored by getting two things one is a 17C and 1203.4. But best to have a lawyer deal with this.

Now to take care of some of your points:

1. Background checks keep guns away from unreformed felons

Technically yes although not always.

2. AB962 will keep ammo out of the hands of unreformed felons....


Um no that only keeps law abiding citizens from getting ammo as easy. That law was proven to be a failure back when the feds tried something similar in the 70's and well the test run of the bill before they made it law now was a failure too. The only reason the felons were caught were other means then the ammo was found not stopped from buying in the first place.

3. Gun shows are where unreformed felons get most of their guns...

Not in California even gun shows the guns MUST got through an FFL


4. Assault weapon bans are effective because unreformed felons and criminals often use rifles to commit crimes.

Give me a freaking break. A criminal will use what ever weapon they can find be it a rifle, handgun, knife, or even a baseball bat. Your beginning to sound like your getting your argument from the Brady Campaign


4. Assault weapon bans are effective because unreformed felons and criminals often use rifles to commit crimes.

OK I am calling BS on this one. If someone breaks in to MY house and steals my stuff how is it MY fault.

6. When unreformed felons are given a set of rules , they will comply.


No they don't. I know at one time this states recidivism rate was something like 80% at one point so saying a felon is going to follow a set of rules is insanity in and of itself.

7. I feel safe knowing there are restrictions put on unreformed felons , even though it wont stop them from getting guns even a little bit. And feeling safe in my head is all that matters regardless of what reality and logic has to say.

OK if you want to believe that go right ahead. But do us all a favor when something goes haywire don't whine about it because remember in your head you were safe and that is all you say matters.

And last but not least:

8. "Gun Free" school zones are an effective measure to keep unreformed felons , gangbangers and criminals from taking guns on school grounds and doing harm to innocents.

Do a little research the original reason for the "gun free" school zone was to try to stop drug deals from happening near the schools. Well guess what is it is a catastrophic failure. The criminal and gang-banger are not going to avoid a school zone because they MIGHT get in trouble. I saw all sorts of things when I worked juvenile probation on our school campus's. Trust me when I say it does nothing in stopping gang members from going near them. Doesn't stop drug dealers either. Or child molesters or anyone else that wants to commit a crime.

Merc1138
04-24-2010, 2:56 AM
You can have your rights restored by getting two things one is a 17C and 1203.4. But best to have a lawyer deal with this.

Now to take care of some of your points:


You totally missed his point, he was saying all of those points were BS.

Trendkill
04-24-2010, 9:19 AM
You totally missed his point, he was saying all of those points were BS.


Thanks.....Im glad someone was paying attention.

:)

dodge
04-24-2010, 9:48 AM
It's so entertaining when people with <10 posts make wonderful posts like this... Please, we like our members to stay out of jail and be happy!!!
also an indication of this persons 'newness' to firearms
he asked a question that anyone w/an nra card or ccw would easily know the answer
but common folks just walking around everyday life; they obviously DO NOT realize the danger they are putting themselves & their friend in

scenario #1) you guys are out in bfe (middle of no where)
a country sheriff hears the report of firearms & is curious who is shooting & what?
he's just curious; not interested beyond that.
so he stops by where you guys are enjoying the firearms
how will your friend re act? how well do you know this 'friend'?
it's certainly not @ all worth the risk & everything in life should be assessed from a position of risk vs. reward

so the risk is you become a felon along w/your friend & both get incarcerated
the reward is an afternoon of wasting ammunition @ your favorite spot

just not enough of a reward concerning the risks; which as everyone in thread seems to be in agreement isn't worth your potentially becoming a 'criminal' yourself just because you wanted to let one 'cool friend', that happens to be a felon, enjoy shooting w/you.

i'm also in the boat w/the peeps that feel once you've served your time & have proven to society you can again be 'trusted' the ban on firearms should be lifted or alleviated. same reasoning as others
they've paid w/time for their crime & have proven to be rehabilitated by living in society w/out getting any leo contact other than traffic violations


when your immediate instinct is to question whether or not you should do something; the answer is almost always 'no'

hope this helps & don't put yourself @ risk

your friend is also indicating signs of not being such a great friend by asking you to do something that he/she knows can lead to jail time for both of you

Fjold
04-24-2010, 10:45 AM
If you want to find out if your friend is telling the truth, look up his record and the charges that were held against him in court. Find out how long he was actually in prison and what his parole terms were.

A person with no criminal record and who has no other criminal charges involved is not going to get a felony conviction for one tab of "e". I don't care what color he is. The worst Public Defender in the office is going to get that pled down to diversin or a misdemeanor. No DA is going to waste the time and money for a felony trial for one tab on a clean citizen.

nrgcruizer
04-24-2010, 2:36 PM
I think people can and have changed. I have a friend who did hard time for 5 years in San Quentin State Prison for crossing state lines with narcotics. He is not a hardened criminal. He works like all of us. He pays taxes. He has changed for the better.

I mean...just look at this guy," David Marshal "Carbine" Williams."

http://www.ncmuseumofhistory.org/collateral/articles/f06.david.carbine.williams.pdf

The M1 Carbine was invented in prison for goodness sake. :cool:

winnre
04-24-2010, 7:51 PM
A person with no criminal record and who has no other criminal charges involved is not going to get a felony conviction for one tab of "e". I don't care what color he is. The worst Public Defender in the office is going to get that pled down to diversin or a misdemeanor. No DA is going to waste the time and money for a felony trial for one tab on a clean citizen.

Out of how many hundreds of thousands of arrests you say there are NONE that result in a felony if the guy has a clean background? Sorry, untrue. It does happen. It may be very very rare but it is not 0%.