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wolfsong
02-24-2006, 10:33 PM
I know very little about "military/assault" type weapons, as my tastes and interests are with more traditional hunting rifles. But lately I find myself very curious and ready to branch out. What do you all think of the KelTec su16ca? From the research I've done, it appears to be a decent gun, I like the caliber and it's weight and compact size. Is this a good choice to start with or are there other brands that are superior for the money? I know that most of you here are serious high end, high tech weapons people, can ya help me out? Thanks, Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

blkA4alb
02-24-2006, 10:35 PM
I know very little about "military/assault" type weapons, as my tastes and interests are with more traditional hunting rifles. But lately I find myself very curious and ready to branch out. What do you all think of the KelTec su16ca? From the research I've done, it appears to be a decent gun, I like the caliber and it's weight and compact size. Is this a good choice to start with or are there other brands that are superior for the money? I know that most of you here are serious high end, high tech weapons people, can ya help me out? Thanks, Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.
i dont personally own one but i have held them in the stores and they feel fine, have you jumped on the lowers bandwagon yet though? one thing about the su16 is the fact that it takes the AR magazines and has a pretty unique handguard/bipod, but im sure you already know that.

MrTuffPaws
02-24-2006, 10:44 PM
The one thing about the SU16 is that it takes AR mags and can have them detatch. That right there, until this whole lower thing blows over, is worth the price.

Justang
02-25-2006, 12:48 AM
I have one. I like it. The only problems I've ever had with it were FTE's. But that was due to old crappy mags. I need new bodies, badly.

It's a good gun for plinking. It gets really hot if fired a lot w/o a rest. Most people that shoot it, like it.

That and my SKS are my fun plinkers.

grammaton76
02-25-2006, 2:10 AM
Every time I take my SU-16CA to the range, I end up liking it more. With the whole hubbub about the sporting conversion mag-lok's and the DOJ, I'm going to be taking my SU-16 and 22LR AR to the range instead of the fixed-mag AR's for a bit.

sohijiro
02-25-2006, 3:00 AM
its a good gun, well worth the money.

another thing is: its not a assault weapon, so if you want to go hunting like varmint hunting you can take it on public land, since lately blm has started banning the use of assault weapons on that land

WallySparx
02-25-2006, 6:34 AM
i'm waiting/hoping for the beretta .223 carbine to come out, in anticipation of a flood of dumped su-16ca's hitting the market.

CAT_101
02-25-2006, 7:44 AM
I have a su/16A. and I know a few others that have the CA model. the uspsa match at the SVSC is starting rifle division for fun as a second gun. So if anyone want's to see a few in action come on out tomarow.

superhondaz50
02-25-2006, 8:08 AM
The su16 ca is an awesome little gun. It's accurate, reliable, has a lifetime warrenty, and it takes AR mags! It's also very light and short. Another cool feature about the CA is that is has a threaded barrel, but dont put a flash hider on it, only a muzzle brake. Flash hider = AW Muzzle brake = legal and cool

jp.cherokee
02-25-2006, 9:07 AM
I have the SU-16CA model and love it, and it is LEGAL:D With a detachable AR magazine.

Check out these forums:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105

http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=667ac3977719608aa8515b4d733ca3b2

EBWhite
02-25-2006, 9:26 AM
The SU16CA is cool, got a threaded barrel and i added a muzzle break to shoot the noise at the front. The gun is nice, a little to much plastic for me. sometimes it feels like you could bend it but overall for the money is is very nice!

HEUER
02-25-2006, 9:45 AM
i'm waiting/hoping for the beretta .223 carbine to come out, in anticipation of a flood of dumped su-16ca's hitting the market.

Expect to wait up to one year. LE sales first.

Justang
02-25-2006, 2:21 PM
I have the SU-16CA model and love it, and it is LEGAL:D With a detachable AR magazine.

Check out these forums:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105

http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=667ac3977719608aa8515b4d733ca3b2

My AR is legal.

Dont Tread on Me
02-25-2006, 3:46 PM
Another vote for the SU16CA. It is really easy to handle and very accurate. I've added the compact foreend and sling kit. Looks great and works well in 3 gun matches.

i've been having problems with failure to extracts which is apparently common. A replacement extractor is supposed to fix the problem and I'm waiting on one from keltec now. Customer service is excellent from that company.

You might take a look at the mini-14. It is not as accurate, in my experience, but is not as terrible as some have warned me. I find it a very reliable design if you have factory mags. It is next but one on my list (M1A next).

EDTED: correct spelling for those sensative to it:-)

Gnote
02-25-2006, 4:06 PM
I agree with the praise for the CA model here. We have one and it is nice. What I really like is that it can be folded and thrown into a backpack for those time when you want to go hiking in the back woods. You can't "trick" the gun out the way you can an AR but it has utility if you need something light with a small footprint.

Justang
02-25-2006, 5:20 PM
Another vote for the SU16CA. It is really easy to handle and very accurate. I've added the compact foreend and sling kit. Looks great and works well in 3 gun matches.

i've been having problems with failure to exstracts which is apprently common. A replacement exstractor is supposed to fix the problem and I'm waiting on one from keltec now. Customer service is excellent from that company.

You might take a look at the mini-14. It is not as accurate, in my experiance, but is not as terrible as some have warned me. I find it a very reliable design if you have factory mags. It is next but one on my list (M1A next).

spell check buddy. ;)

Yes there are failure to extracts, and they can be common. I have read reports of the extractor failing after thousands of rounds in one day. It's a good gun... but it's no AR. Great backpacking rifle!

Mini14 is a good gun. I don't particularly think the action is the best for the .223 cal. But that's my opinion. I think the SU16 is a better action. Heck, in some respects I like the SU16 action better than the AR...the SU doesn't crap where it eats. ;)

Charliegone
02-25-2006, 5:22 PM
Heey! Watts wrong wiht a little missspelling?:D

Justang
02-25-2006, 5:40 PM
Heey! Watts wrong wiht a little missspelling?:D

nuting at al.

11Z50
02-25-2006, 7:11 PM
I have a B-model and I like it better than the Mini-14 I tinkered with for a couple years. I just shot it today, and I finally got the BSA red dot zeroed. Shoots well now. Very few malfunctions, just about as reliable as an AR. The use of the M-16 mags I had stashed is very cool. The SU grows on you, and if you use it for what it is, a lightweight carbine, you'll enjoy it. It 'aint a battle rifle and isn't intended to be.

Justang
02-25-2006, 9:16 PM
It 'aint a battle rifle and isn't intended to be.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better. I think many people try to judge it as a battle rifle when it, clearly, is not.

11Z50
02-25-2006, 9:29 PM
Indeed.....

When you compare the M-14 to the M-4 you have a very similar situation. One is a robust, powerful "battle rifle" that when all else fails you can club your opponent to death with. Compared to the M-14, the M-4 is plastic, fragile, and frequently jams when dirty. Sound familiar?

Having used the M-14, the M16 family and the SU-16B, I see the SU as a viable lightweight carbine for general recreational use, and in a pinch, a decent self-defense (SHTF?) weapon. Sure, if I had one available, it's hard to beat an M-4. But a SU-16 in hand is better than a neutered M-4 any day.

rodgster
02-25-2006, 9:49 PM
My opinion, I don't own one and probably never will, it feels flimsy. And I don't even want to start talking about the crimped on barrel.

I'd be afraid to fire the damn thing. I've had a KaBOOM happen to me (not that gun).

HK_Fan
02-25-2006, 10:29 PM
Indeed.....

But a SU-16 in hand is better than a neutered M-4 any day.


Indeed!!!


Rob

shopkeep
02-25-2006, 10:36 PM
The one thing about the SU16 is that it takes AR mags and can have them detatch. That right there, until this whole lower thing blows over, is worth the price.

I don't suppose you've seen the videos of the SRB in the rifleman's forum. Many are beginning to fabricate grip replacements for AR-15 pattern rifles built on off list lowers. These rifles not only feature the use of detachable magazines but have superior accuracy and availability of parts to the Kel-Tech.

As time goes on, the grip replacements and ingenuity that goes into off-list builds will continue to produce rifles superior to the Kel-Tech. I'd invest into an off-list lower if I were you. As things stand now the Kel-Tech will be with us for some time but there are indications from the DOJ that the off-list lowers will become "Assault Weapons" soon in some form or another.

Justang
02-25-2006, 10:39 PM
But a SU-16 in hand is better than a neutered M-4 any day.

Ha. You can't be serious.

11Z50
02-25-2006, 11:38 PM
Here's the deal. The whole "off list" lower fiasco is a pipe dream that at best will give you a registered AW. At worst, you have an expensive paperweight, if you don't wind up in jail. When the AW ban took effect, I sold my collection after making a logical decision to obey the law, even if I disagreed with it.

I also made the decision that I would rather dispsose of my legally-acquired AW collection rather than submit to registration. That is why buying a lower, to wind up with a registered AW makes no sense to me.

Getting back to the original question, ie SU-16 v AR, I would rather own a legal SU-16 that requires no AW registration than own 100 "lowers" that MAY someday be registered as an AW. Is the AR-series superior to the SU-16? Yes, in almost every way. Is the SU-16 much more compliant with the law? Yes in almost every way. Unless you plan on walking the streets of Fallujah, a SU-16 will meet your needs. Until the laws are changed, it is better to remain legal. I will happily support Ben and the rest that challenge the status quo.

As for the SRB, yes, I have seen it, and I think it's absurd. It is very transparent as to what the real intent is. Nobody that has ever shot an AR for real would see the SRB as a viable option.

The most alarming thing I see here is why all the clamour to own an AW? Clearly, there are people who I have seen that have no business owning one. I will wholeheartedly agree that we should be free to exercise our 2A rights, and also just as clearly our 2A rights are being violated here in the PRK. Of the thousands of lowers that have been purchased here in the PRK, at least one will be made into an illegal AW, and that's what the anti's are waiting for. This will do our cause much more harm than good.

Justang
02-25-2006, 11:51 PM
Here's the deal. The whole "off list" lower fiasco is a pipe dream that at best will give you a registered AW. at worst, you have an expensive paperweight. When the AW ban took effect, I sold my collection after making a logical decision to obey the law, even if I disagreed with it.

I also made the decision that I would rather dispsose of my legally-acquired AW collection rather than submit to registration. That is why buying a lower, to wind up with a registered AW makes no sense to me.

Getting back to the original question, ie SU-16 v AR, I would rather own a legal SU-16 that requires no AW registration that own 100 "lowers" that MAY someday be registered as an AW. Is the AR-series superior to the SU-16? Yes, in almost every way. Is the SU-16 much more compliant with the law? Yes in almost every way. Unless you plan on walking the streets of Fallujah, a SU-16 will meet your needs. Until the laws are changed, it is better to remain legal. I will happily support Ben and the rest that challenge the status quo.

The most alarming thing I see here is why all the clamour to own an AW? Clearly, there are people who I have seen that have no business owning one. I will wholeheartedly agree that we should be free to exercise our 2A rights, and also just as clearly our 2A rights are being violated here in the PRK. Of the thousands of lowers that have been purchased here in the PRK, at least one will be made into an illegal AW, and that's what the anti's are waiting for. This will do our cause much more harm than good.

At worst, we have fixed mag AR. Best, we have a normal AR.

Obey the law? We should obey the law at all times. But having a registered "AW" is legal. Have an off list lower, is legal.

To some of us, registering is not a big deal.

And a fixed mag AR in Cali can be taken out of Cali and made to be a normal AR. And that's my entire take on this. I want something that I can take to free states and shoot. I have many friends out of state that I shoot with. It'd be nice to have a decent gun. Those guys always point and laugh at my SU. :( j/k. lol.

11Z50
02-25-2006, 11:59 PM
If your friends laugh at your SU maybe you need new friends.

The whole issue is this: Of the currently legal alternatives, is the SU-16 a good choice? I'd have to say yes. Better than the Mini-14. Better than a 10-round neutered AR.

shopkeep
02-26-2006, 12:19 AM
Here's the deal. The whole "off list" lower fiasco is a pipe dream that at best will give you a registered AW. At worst, you have an expensive paperweight, if you don't wind up in jail. When the AW ban took effect, I sold my collection after making a logical decision to obey the law, even if I disagreed with it.

I also made the decision that I would rather dispsose of my legally-acquired AW collection rather than submit to registration. That is why buying a lower, to wind up with a registered AW makes no sense to me.

Getting back to the original question, ie SU-16 v AR, I would rather own a legal SU-16 that requires no AW registration than own 100 "lowers" that MAY someday be registered as an AW. Is the AR-series superior to the SU-16? Yes, in almost every way. Is the SU-16 much more compliant with the law? Yes in almost every way. Unless you plan on walking the streets of Fallujah, a SU-16 will meet your needs. Until the laws are changed, it is better to remain legal. I will happily support Ben and the rest that challenge the status quo.

As for the SRB, yes, I have seen it, and I think it's absurd. It is very transparent as to what the real intent is. Nobody that has ever shot an AR for real would see the SRB as a viable option.

The most alarming thing I see here is why all the clamour to own an AW? Clearly, there are people who I have seen that have no business owning one. I will wholeheartedly agree that we should be free to exercise our 2A rights, and also just as clearly our 2A rights are being violated here in the PRK. Of the thousands of lowers that have been purchased here in the PRK, at least one will be made into an illegal AW, and that's what the anti's are waiting for. This will do our cause much more harm than good.

I also sold off my "Assault Weapons" rather than register them back in 1999. Result: I get to watch everyone who registered enjoy them every weekend at the public ranges. There was never any confiscation and the only thing registration lets you do is keep your property. Worst case scenario they confiscate in which case my property is headed out of the state before they ever knock on my door.

I've already got registered handguns and I'm sure if they wanted to grab guns they'll go for those as well anyhow. Who knows how this whole thing is going to end up. All I know is that I'm sick and tired of the bullcrap the state continues to force on me. Even if all I do is piss off the state by buying lowers, I got my money's worth!

Justang
02-26-2006, 12:22 AM
If your friends laugh at your SU maybe you need new friends.

The whole issue is this: Of the currently legal alternatives, is the SU-16 a good choice? I'd have to say yes. Better than the Mini-14. Better than a 10-round neutered AR.

It was a joke. sarcasm. hence the lol and j/k.

That's your opinion.

you're way to serious for 1am on saturday.

wolfsong
02-26-2006, 1:18 AM
I just love the passion all the members here show when defending their opinions! You guys are out of my league when it comes to FALs,ARs, AWs, etc. I don't post much here, I just read and learn. Thanks for the input so far, I'll be ordering an SU16 this week if my local dealer can get it. As I said in my original post, I like it's compact size, the caliber is adequate for most purposes and I think it looks cool. I like the life-time warranty and the price is right. Besides, my circle of shooting friends are all hunters and are also into black powder, so I'll be the first to own this type of weapon. Kinda sounds like this gun will draw their interest. If it performs well, I can foresee a serious game of "oneupmanship" coming on in our gang. This could get expensive...Weatherby loves us because once one of us got a Mark V everyone had to get one (three, in my case). Gonna have to work some overtime now. Thanks for the input and info. And for the record, mini 14s are what we use at work, so they don't interest me for pleasure. Nothing against them, just like the overall impression of the KelTec. Thanks again, peace and God bless, Wolfsong. P.S. keep up the dialogue, you guys are crazy! (in a good way):cool:

grammaton76
02-26-2006, 2:48 AM
Besides, my circle of shooting friends are all hunters and are also into black powder, so I'll be the first to own this type of weapon. Kinda sounds like this gun will draw their interest. If it performs well, I can foresee a serious game of "oneupmanship" coming on in our gang. This could get expensive...

Gah, your group has its own version of "The Curse"?

One of my guys set off the first round of "The Curse" by buying a Sig 226 - it forced two more of us to buy Sig 229's when Turner's put them on sale.

The second round of Curse came with the off-list lowers; Mr. 226 has one, the other Mr. 229 has two, and I've got... uh, 10.

I foresee the next round of Curse being set off with optics, but I'm not totally sure...

wolfsong
02-26-2006, 12:59 PM
Gah, your group has its own version of "The Curse"?

One of my guys set off the first round of "The Curse" by buying a Sig 226 - it forced two more of us to buy Sig 229's when Turner's put them on sale.

The second round of Curse came with the off-list lowers; Mr. 226 has one, the other Mr. 229 has two, and I've got... uh, 10.

I foresee the next round of Curse being set off with optics, but I'm not totally sure...
Ah, life is good...Don't forget reloading dies, hats, tee shirts, gun bags, knives, framed targets of the best groups of every caliber that you shoot, stealing other shooters' spent brass; :o it never stops! I love it. The wife, on the other hand...Wolfsong.

shopkeep
02-26-2006, 2:25 PM
You know I think I'm going to really summarize the whole off-list vs. Kel-Tech arguement here.

You get the Kel-Tech because you want a Kel-Tech and it's different than the AR-15. The Kel-Tech isn't going to be as accurate, but on the other hand it's half the price and loads of fun.

I still think anyone who skips out on the off-list recievers is making a HUGE mistake. It is inevitable that next time there's a democrat majority in US Congress and a Democrat president SB-23 type legislation will be passed on the federal level.

11Z50
02-26-2006, 3:40 PM
Shopkeep, after all the tribulations of selling off my AW collection after considerable soul-searching, I cannot do that again. At the time, I had 2 AR-15's, a CAR (my Favorite), a folding-stock Chi-com AK-47, both 5.56 and 7.62 Galils, an FNC, an UZI, an M1A, and a Maadi AKM. I got my money back and then some, but I had to make a choice. Reg'ing them was out of the question since morally I could not agree with that. They were reg'd when I bought them and I would not submit to the tyranny of the PRK, so I sold them all. I shot them almost every weekend, I enjoyed them immensely, but a choice was necessary, and my profession did not allow me to knowingly violate the law. I do not want an "off list" lower because I do not believe in the AW reg law, and I still cannot knowingly violate the law.

IMHO, you guys are doing more harm than good with the "lower" uprising and there will certainly be consequences. Not for me. I do support those who will challenge the AW law, and I have sent money to the cause.

Since then, I have tinkered with the mini-14 and now the SU. If those like me choose to sit the lower revolt out, that doesn't mean we don't support the cause. As for me, until the wrong is set right, I'll shoot my SU-16 with my lawfully possessed 30 round mags in silent protest. Please understand that not everyone needs or wants a lower.

akjunkie
02-26-2006, 4:22 PM
on a different note... the guys at GunRunners in Duarte, Ca swears the Su16 CA model with a threaded barrel is ILLEGAL in california.

their explainaiton is it has 3 points:

1) semi auto
2) take detachable mags
3) threaded barrel

even tho other big chain (gun)stores are selling them.

comments everyone???

DPC
02-26-2006, 4:26 PM
I have an SU-16A with a Tac-Point red dot site and that thing is deadly to within 3" at a 100yds and I really didn't dial my site in to precision accuracy I just did a quick set up and the rifle vise I was using kept moving. Like some of the other members here I like it more every time I shoot it. One of the guy on the forum said it will probably be the next Glock, guys at turners bad mouth them but none of them own one. When the Glock first came out it got a lot of bad press but over time it's proven to be a very reliable pistol you just may not like the way it looks but without a dought it works. I believe it the best .223 rifle you can get in Cali at the present time. Everyone thats shot mine has said man this thing is dead on and one guy owns a Socom-16 which I take as a compliment. All I can say is buy one I don't think you will be dissapointed. Get your self a nice site as well one draw back is I don't like the factory sites on the SU-16A I prefer the bravo sites sold by Kel-Tec.

God bless you too!!

DPC:)

CAT_101
02-26-2006, 5:59 PM
I shoot my SU-16A in a USPSA local match today and loved it. I can see how the barel can get too hot, even after 35-40 rounds stage the barel culd not be touched. But for thous rounds it shot very acurret. I have a 3X9 tac scope on it and at 100yrds I anm shooting a 2" and less group. I had no FTE 1 jam and due to me not slaming in the mag FTL but a quick slap and recok away I went.
I had loads of fun and need lots of pratice. This was my first 223 rifel shoot.

C.G.
02-26-2006, 6:18 PM
on a different note... the guys at GunRunners in Duarte, Ca swears the Su16 CA model with a threaded barrel is ILLEGAL in california.

their explainaiton is it has 3 points:

1) semi auto
2) take detachable mags
3) threaded barrel

even tho other big chain (gun)stores are selling them.

comments everyone???

They need to read the regs; threaded barrel only applies to handguns, not long guns.

Justang
02-26-2006, 6:33 PM
Shopkeep, after all the tribulations of selling off my AW collection after considerable soul-searching, I cannot do that again. At the time, I had 2 AR-15's, a CAR (my Favorite), a folding-stock Chi-com AK-47, both 5.56 and 7.62 Galils, an FNC, an UZI, an M1A, and a Maadi AKM. I got my money back and then some, but I had to make a choice. Reg'ing them was out of the question since morally I could not agree with that. They were reg'd when I bought them and I would not submit to the tyranny of the PRK, so I sold them all. I shot them almost every weekend, I enjoyed them immensely, but a choice was necessary, and my profession did not allow me to knowingly violate the law. I do not want an "off list" lower because I do not believe in the AW reg law, and I still cannot knowingly violate the law.

IMHO, you guys are doing more harm than good with the "lower" uprising and there will certainly be consequences. Not for me. I do support those who will challenge the AW law, and I have sent money to the cause.

Since then, I have tinkered with the mini-14 and now the SU. If those like me choose to sit the lower revolt out, that doesn't mean we don't support the cause. As for me, until the wrong is set right, I'll shoot my SU-16 with my lawfully possessed 30 round mags in silent protest. Please understand that not everyone needs or wants a lower.

I refuse to quit exercising my RKBA based on appearance. So an off list lower is the way to do this legally. For somebody that says they are very into shooting, and shot almost every weekend, it seems you gave up awfull fast.

But remember, if you have a handgun, they know what you have, when you bought it, who you brought it from, the SN# on the gun, ect. You are submitting to the PRK by buying handguns. Really no different from a AW reg.

Silent protest will get you nothing but silence.

jp.cherokee
02-26-2006, 7:34 PM
At the time, I had 2 AR-15's, a CAR (my Favorite), a folding-stock Chi-com AK-47, both 5.56 and 7.62 Galils, an FNC, an UZI, an M1A, and a Maadi AKM. .

Question: When you DROS, dosn't the DOJ know what you have already. What is the difference when you have to register. They already know your hardware, or am I wrong?

11Z50, I am really bummed you had to sell those firearms, if you did really have to....
JP...

CALI-gula
02-26-2006, 7:51 PM
As everyone here well knows, I have bought MANY lowers, AND... I was in my favorite gun store yesterday, and while in the process of buying and DROSing a new Kel-Tec SU-16CA, I look over to their "fondle-the-rifle" rack, also what I call their "poop-rack" (because it is comprised of a lot of well-worn rifles and much cheaper surplus) and what do I find but a mint Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm, in near "New in Box" condition - not a nick or scratch on it anywhere, chamber looked like new, for $339. So 2-for-one fun!

I was one of the first in California to get the Kel-Tec SU16-A model (super low serial number too) and was thoroughly impressed with its accuracy. It nearly matched the performance of my HBAR pre-94 ban Bushmaster AND was much more accurate and pleasant to shoot than my regular Mini-14 and my other Mini-14GB factory folder, even with the folder's shoulder stock open.

I can logically see that at this time next year, for SHOT show 2007, Kel-Tec releasing their new .308 model. In fact, I FULLY expect it. Keep watching their website.

And as far as those that sold all of their AW guns because they did not wish to "register"?

You did EXACTLY what the Anti-2nd Amendment groups of California had hoped you would do - get rid of your guns. They would rather have you get rid of them than to defy them by doing the paperwork and jumping through their silly hoops to keep them. I would rather defy them with their own laws, and instead of registering 2 or 3 AW rifles, I went out, bought a boat load and registered as many as several registration cards could hold. I am a citizen of the United States and these dumb laws will not stop me from expressing my right to keep and bear arms - getting rid of them is no different than when the King George and his Red Coats told us we had to get rid of our guns; those that complied often suffered.

Paul Koretz would be more than happy to see me gunless! King George Soros would be even happier! Screw them both! Now I've got an arsenal and armory, registered or not, and this is sure to bother them a WHOLE lot more. Oh sure, I can hear the rebuttal now "just wait until they knock on your door at 2AM to confiscate them, etc." It just doesn't work that way, so long as you have complied with the silly laws they create. And if they ever do go to a full ban, then I still have the option of selling them at my own free will or taking them with me to another state. It would be awfully difficult for the DOJ to round up over 100,000 registrants' rifles in one night, not including another likely 20,000 or so for AB50, and another 9,000 or so for lowers. In any case, if I should be force to comply with drastic ban changes, I won't do it easily, and it won't be done without a fight, that is for sure. :D

Clodbuster
02-27-2006, 11:47 AM
It's been only 5 years since you had to register AWs...which may be a long time to you, but it's really nothing to the government -- or if you haven't noticed how long "2 weeks to update the list" is actually taking them.
The minute someone commits another 101 California Street event, you know they are going to be taken away. That's what the registration is for.

Clod

I also sold off my "Assault Weapons" rather than register them back in 1999. Result: I get to watch everyone who registered enjoy them every weekend at the public ranges. There was never any confiscation and the only thing registration lets you do is keep your property.

HEUER
02-27-2006, 11:51 AM
Shopkeep, after all the tribulations of selling off my AW collection after considerable soul-searching, I cannot do that again. At the time, I had 2 AR-15's, a CAR (my Favorite), a folding-stock Chi-com AK-47, both 5.56 and 7.62 Galils, an FNC, an UZI, an M1A, and a Maadi AKM. I got my money back and then some, but I had to make a choice. Reg'ing them was out of the question since morally I could not agree with that. They were reg'd when I bought them and I would not submit to the tyranny of the PRK, so I sold them all. I shot them almost every weekend, I enjoyed them immensely, but a choice was necessary, and my profession did not allow me to knowingly violate the law. I do not want an "off list" lower because I do not believe in the AW reg law, and I still cannot knowingly violate the law.

IMHO, you guys are doing more harm than good with the "lower" uprising and there will certainly be consequences. Not for me. I do support those who will challenge the AW law, and I have sent money to the cause.

Since then, I have tinkered with the mini-14 and now the SU. If those like me choose to sit the lower revolt out, that doesn't mean we don't support the cause. As for me, until the wrong is set right, I'll shoot my SU-16 with my lawfully possessed 30 round mags in silent protest. Please understand that not everyone needs or wants a lower.

This is a very valid post.

D.R.E.
09-21-2008, 8:05 PM
Thanks for the pointers! Super useful.

I have the SU-16CA model and love it, and it is LEGAL:D With a detachable AR magazine.

Check out these forums:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105

http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=667ac3977719608aa8515b4d733ca3b2

caldude
09-21-2008, 8:46 PM
I wish people would stop resurrecting threads from 2 1/2 years ago.

X-NewYawker
09-21-2008, 9:27 PM
I wish people would stop resurrecting threads from 2 1/2 years ago.

Why?
Some people weren't HERE two and a half years ago.
If the newb visitors get interested enough maybe they'll stay and we'll amass POWER. I guess most of you guys who have been on CG since it's inception don't remember what an exciting, eye opening resource and AA-type meeting it can be.

As long as the few REALLY snide MFs don't drive the weak away...

stphnman20
09-21-2008, 9:30 PM
Why?
Some people weren't HERE two and a half years ago.
If the newb visitors get interested enough maybe they'll stay and we'll amass POWER. I guess most of you guys who have been on CG since it's inception don't remember what an exciting, eye opening resource and AA-type meeting it can be.

As long as the few REALLY snide MFs don't drive the weak away...
Word!

X-NewYawker
09-21-2008, 9:35 PM
Thanks

D.R.E.
09-21-2008, 9:38 PM
I wish people would stop resurrecting threads from 2 1/2 years ago.

What got resurrected were the SU-16CA pointers. They remain as useful as when they were originally posted.


I need something cheaper to shoot than shotgun slugs (and reloading them looks like too much trouble), and the SU-16CA seems like a reasonable alternative, esp w/ a 650 to back it up.

D.R.E.
09-21-2008, 9:41 PM
How'd you guess? ;-)

I'm making up for it, though. As, unfortunately, my finances can attest...


Why?
Some people weren't HERE two and a half years ago.
If the newb visitors get interested enough maybe they'll stay and we'll amass POWER. I guess most of you guys who have been on CG since it's inception don't remember what an exciting, eye opening resource and AA-type meeting it can be.

As long as the few REALLY snide MFs don't drive the weak away...

aplinker
09-21-2008, 11:36 PM
I don't mind threads being dug up, but sometimes it does pay to check the date. :) A LOT of info ceases to be relevant.

For example, some statements about OLL being marginal or on the edge... we've already won that fight (DOJ gave up their ability to list, essentially surrendering to us).

How'd you guess? ;-)

I'm making up for it, though. As, unfortunately, my finances can attest...

If you don't shoot a lot and want a lightweight rifle, the SU-16 is nice and serviceable.

However, the ROs at my local range have running bets on when the next SU-16 KB will occur. It's not an uncommon thing and they tend to be pretty catastrophic. All rifles can KB, but the SU tends to be more dangerous and obvious when it does.

Be sure you spend time searching and shopping - you can find them substantially cheaper than the prices at standard shops - I see them frequently here around $400, and often with a lot of accessories.

You also might want to consider the Saiga in .223 - it's built on arguably the most bullet-proof platform in the world.

JohnnyBangBang
09-22-2008, 11:32 AM
Shot mine last week while up in the mountains camping. Fun and accurate.

D.R.E.
09-22-2008, 4:35 PM
Hadn't even looked at SAIGA --- I really only shoot pistols and shotguns, so still have a lot of background reading to do for rifles. Though, that didn't stop the ordering of .223 dies and brass last night.

Just ordered a saiga from evil-black-rifles. $325 shipped. Thanks for the pointer!

I don't mind threads being dug up, but sometimes it does pay to check the date. :) A LOT of info ceases to be relevant.

For example, some statements about OLL being marginal or on the edge... we've already won that fight (DOJ gave up their ability to list, essentially surrendering to us).



If you don't shoot a lot and want a lightweight rifle, the SU-16 is nice and serviceable.

However, the ROs at my local range have running bets on when the next SU-16 KB will occur. It's not an uncommon thing and they tend to be pretty catastrophic. All rifles can KB, but the SU tends to be more dangerous and obvious when it does.

Be sure you spend time searching and shopping - you can find them substantially cheaper than the prices at standard shops - I see them frequently here around $400, and often with a lot of accessories.

You also might want to consider the Saiga in .223 - it's built on arguably the most bullet-proof platform in the world.

grammaton76
09-23-2008, 1:19 PM
I did some writing on the SU-16 just last weekend.

When/if you get one, if it makes a nails-on-chalkboard sound when you first cock the handle... you have to take it apart and lube the action. The gun shop that sold my NIB SU-16CA to me told me that sound was normal for these rifles. When I finally got around to taking it apart last weekend (2.5 years later, but it made the exact same sound and handled the same as when I first bought it), I found out there was plenty of rust in the works. Don't trust Kel-Tec to have lubed their weapons! Don't get me wrong, I like my SU-16CA and I no longer dread pulling the charging handle... it feels much more like a "real gun" now. Just make sure you get some CLP in there if you buy one.

Now, with that cautionary note aside... here's how to disassemble one, and some solid evidence as to which AR-15 parts it will actually accept:
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/AnalysisKelTecSU16

Here's a breakdown of the SU-16 family:
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/AboutSu16

Here's a by-no-means-conclusive list of modifications you can make to one:
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RecModsSu16