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blkA4alb
02-24-2006, 6:11 PM
since i got my first lower its time to order some parts. i want this one to be a long range shooter, but i cant decide between a 20" or 24" barrel. how much performance benefit would i get from the extra 4"? i know that the longer length would increase the bullet velocity but is it worth the extra length/weight? ive done a lot of research and i was looking at the RRA varmint upper. any thoughts on it? for the trigger i was going to go with the chip mccormic 2-stage trigger, and for buttstock the M4 SOCOM collapsable stock. the one question i have about it though is that ive read that it is "not DOJ approved for post ban use." am i not allowed to use it :confused:? sorry for the long post and thanks for any help or thoughts.

C.G.
02-24-2006, 6:34 PM
since i got my first lower its time to order some parts. i want this one to be a long range shooter, but i cant decide between a 20" or 24" barrel. how much performance benefit would i get from the extra 4"? i know that the longer length would increase the bullet velocity but is it worth the extra length/weight? ive done a lot of research and i was looking at the RRA varmint upper. any thoughts on it? for the trigger i was going to go with the chip mccormic 2-stage trigger, and for buttstock the M4 SOCOM collapsable stock. the one question i have about it though is that ive read that it is "not DOJ approved for post ban use." am i not allowed to use it :confused:? sorry for the long post and thanks for any help or thoughts.

What will you be using the rifle for? If it is paper punching then the 24", general use and hunting 20". As far as the McCormick trigger, I have a 2 stage on my Grendel and love it (BTW, if you are going long range you might want to consider the 6.5 Grendel). Don't worry about the stock, if your mag is pinned and the rifle is longer than 30" than you have nothing to worry about. Personally, I like the Magpul PRS stock and will get one for my Grendel: http://www.oriontacticalgear.com/MAGPUL.html

Army
02-24-2006, 6:41 PM
since i got my first lower its time to order some parts. i want this one to be a long range shooter, but i cant decide between a 20" or 24" barrel. how much performance benefit would i get from the extra 4"? i know that the longer length would increase the bullet velocity but is it worth the extra length/weight? ive done a lot of research and i was looking at the RRA varmint upper. any thoughts on it? for the trigger i was going to go with the chip mccormic 2-stage trigger, and for buttstock the M4 SOCOM collapsable stock. the one question i have about it though is that ive read that it is "not DOJ approved for post ban use." am i not allowed to use it :confused:? sorry for the long post and thanks for any help or thoughts.

There are many hurdles in the legalities of rifle configuration here in Calli. But basically, if you want it to still resemble an AR15, the buttstock has to be a standard style, or pinned (non)collapsable. Besides, a tele-stock would not serve your long range purpose very well.

To have a removeable magazine, you cannot have a 1)flash-hider 2) bayonet lug 3) pistol grip that extends "conspicuously" below the receiver {no, a thumbhole stock is also not allowed} 4) tele-stock. Which, of course, makes little reason to have an AR....or so the DOJ thinks.

A fixed 10 round magazine lower will have to suffice.

Personally, I would go with the 24" (which is what I am going with on my vARmint rifle). Nearly all ammo is tested in 20"-26" barrels, so you would be getting close to actual performance levels.

blkA4alb
02-24-2006, 6:45 PM
What will you be using the rifle for? If it is paper punching then the 24", general use and hunting 20". As far as the McCormick trigger, I have a 2 stage on my Grendel and love it (BTW, if you are going long range you might want to consider the 6.5 Grendel). Don't worry about the stock, if your mag is pinned and the rifle is longer than 30" than you have nothing to worry about. Personally, I like the Magpul PRS stock and will get one for my Grendel: http://www.oriontacticalgear.com/MAGPUL.html
i will mainly be using it for target and compettion shooting, but im not ruling out the possibility of ever hunting with it, sounds like a 22" would be just right. i should say though that the receiver i have now is an Ameetec 6.8mm SPC, i will be getting 4 more receivers on monday and will be building one of those up with the setup i just listed. the 6.8mm i will build as a 6.8mm but at a later time:) (really long range, right?)

blkA4alb
02-24-2006, 6:49 PM
There are many hurdles in the legalities of rifle configuration here in Calli. But basically, if you want it to still resemble an AR15, the buttstock has to be a standard style, or pinned (non)collapsable. Besides, a tele-stock would not serve your long range purpose very well.

To have a removeable magazine, you cannot have a 1)flash-hider 2) bayonet lug 3) pistol grip that extends "conspicuously" below the receiver {no, a thumbhole stock is also not allowed} 4) tele-stock. Which, of course, makes little reason to have an AR....or so the DOJ thinks.

A fixed 10 round magazine lower will have to suffice.

Personally, I would go with the 24" (which is what I am going with on my vARmint rifle). Nearly all ammo is tested in 20"-26" barrels, so you would be getting close to actual performance levels.
lol, trust me i know ALL about the legalities and "hurdles" for building the AR :p. and i personally think that the M4 SOCOM is completely awesome looking, which is the main reason i chose it for this, as well as the long barrel with a collapsable stock will make getting it into a case just a little easier. i hope

C.G.
02-24-2006, 6:58 PM
i will mainly be using it for target and compettion shooting, but im not ruling out the possibility of ever hunting with it, sounds like a 22" would be just right. i should say though that the receiver i have now is an Ameetec 6.8mm SPC, i will be getting 4 more receivers on monday and will be building one of those up with the setup i just listed. the 6.8mm i will build as a 6.8mm but at a later time:) (really long range, right?)

Actually, 6.8 is mid-range, Grendel 6.5 goes out to about 1000 yards. See comparison of .223, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62 Nato:
http://www.65grendel.com/graphics/grendelballistics.pdf

blkA4alb
02-24-2006, 7:09 PM
Actually, 6.8 is mid-range, Grendel 6.5 goes out to about 1000 yards. See comparison of .223, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62 Nato:
http://www.65grendel.com/graphics/grendelballistics.pdf
wow, but how much is that ammo going to cost? any more than the 6.8? do only 1 or 2 companies make it so they can charge whatever they want (no competition?) and what about reloading it? and i noticed you said comparison of .223, when they say 5.56 (not the same.) yes im picky..:D (and just giving you a hard time, when i probably should not)

C.G.
02-24-2006, 7:19 PM
wow, but how much is that ammo going to cost? any more than the 6.8? do only 1 or 2 companies make it so they can charge whatever they want (no competition?) and what about reloading it? and i noticed you said comparison of .223, when they say 5.56 (not the same.) yes im picky..:D (and just giving you a hard time, when i probably should not)

Well, since I haven't been able to buy any XM193 lately, so I've been shooting .223 and guess what, it fits.:)
Seriously, at the moment factory ammo is expensive about $1 per round, but Wolf announced at the Shot Show that they will be producing Wolf Performance Ammo (also including 5.56) with brass casings etc. in 120 Nosler and 123 Lapua for list price of $8/20, which means they will be about $6 on the street. It will be available about May. This will be the first time I will be buying Wolf; it will be for plinking and the accurate stuff I will start loading myself.

blkA4alb
02-24-2006, 7:25 PM
Well, since I haven't been able to buy any XM193 lately, so I've been shooting .223 and guess what, it fits.:)
Seriously, at the moment factory ammo is expensive about $1 per round, but Wolf announced at the Shot Show that they will be producing Wolf Performance Ammo (also including 5.56) with brass casings etc. in 120 Nosler and 123 Lapua for list price of $8/20, which means they will be about $6 on the street. It will be available about May. This will be the first time I will be buying Wolf; it will be for plinking and the accurate stuff I will start loading myself.
eh, you confused me there. are you talking about 6.5 grendel or .223 or 5.56? and also is it true that for long range accuracy you want it chambered for .223 and for carbines 5.56? thats what ive been under the impression of, and yes ive been to ammo oracle:p.

C.G.
02-24-2006, 7:39 PM
eh, you confused me there. are you talking about 6.5 grendel or .223 or 5.56? and also is it true that for long range accuracy you want it chambered for .223 and for carbines 5.56? thats what ive been under the impression of, and yes ive been to ammo oracle:p.

Long range and Wolf Performance Ammo at $6/20, I was talking about the Grendel 6.5.

Going back to .223/5.56. For all purpose gun, chrome-lined barrel and 5.56 chamber are good because they will accept most ammo and not be finicky about it.
For paper puncher you may want to consider .223 Wylde chamber, it may not eat all ammo but will probably be more accurate. You may want to read this thread here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=27141&highlight=wylde
Wolf will also be making Performance Ammo in 5.56, supposedly very similar to XM193.

Hope that clears it up.:)

CTT2
02-25-2006, 7:03 AM
5.56 is aka mil surplus ammo. It is loaded hotter than .223
Also as far as chambering on the gun there is a differnce between 5.56 and 223.
223 chambering is a little tighter than 556, which gives 223 better accuracy. How ever if you use 556 ammo in a 223 rifle your barrel will wear out sooner and also you will have an increase in chamber pressure.

Demented_Mind
02-25-2006, 4:48 PM
5.56 is aka mil surplus ammo. It is loaded hotter than .223
Also as far as chambering on the gun there is a differnce between 5.56 and 223.
223 chambering is a little tighter than 556, which gives 223 better accuracy. How ever if you use 556 ammo in a 223 rifle your barrel will wear out sooner and also you will have an increase in chamber pressure.

I read somewhere in an article that if you shot 5.56 in a .223 chamber that it could possibly cause an unsafe chamber pressure which could lead to possible injury from a ruptured casing or something. Is this true or a bunch of bs? Also, how much accuracy is lost when using .223 in a 5.56 chamber? Is it a significant amount lost?

C.G.
02-25-2006, 5:09 PM
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

Demented_Mind
02-25-2006, 8:22 PM
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

Thanks, very informative.

xrMike
02-26-2006, 4:31 PM
Personally, I like the Magpul PRS stock and will get one for my Grendel: http://www.oriontacticalgear.com/MAGPUL.htmlI really like the look of that PRS model also... Is it considered "collapsible" or "telescoping"? (I'd like to build up my lower with the SRB and no 'evil' features, so I can use detachable mags).

C.G.
02-26-2006, 4:42 PM
I really like the look of that PRS model also... Is it considered "collapsible" or "telescoping"? (I'd like to build up my lower with the SRB and no 'evil' features, so I can use detachable mags).

It shouldn't be, as the buttstock extends 1" and one can't do it very fast either, but that is a good question. Maybe Technical Ted will chime in.

xrMike
02-27-2006, 10:42 AM
It shouldn't be, as the buttstock extends 1" and one can't do it very fast either, but that is a good question. Maybe Technical Ted will chime in.Well I sent this to Orion Tactical, about the Magpul PRS stock:

-------------
Hi,

I found your website and really like that Magpul Precision Rifle Stock
(PRS) stock you sell. I'm thinking about buying one, but I have a
question first:

==> Does this PRS stock qualify as being "collapsible" or "telescoping"
under California law?

Thanks,

--Mike

-------------
and I received this very quickly after:
-------------

Mike:

I don't believe it falls under any of those catagories. But you should check with the locals first.

We are out of the PRS stocks at the moment. We can't keep them on the shelves. We will shoot you off an email when they come in.

Vince