PDA

View Full Version : 21 to buy a complete AR lower?


AirNavBlue
04-20-2010, 4:29 PM
I've done some research and asked a few people and never got a straight answer. Do I have to be 21 to purchase a COMPLETE AR15 lower receiver with a full stock?

I know you have to be 21 to purchase a stripped lower, but isn't a complete lower considered a rifle?

Kharn
04-20-2010, 4:31 PM
If it is not a *rifle* or *shotgun* you must be 21 to buy it, only those two classes of firearm can be sold to someone 18-21. An AR lower is not a rifle unless it has both a >16" barrel and a stock attached.

CSACANNONEER
04-20-2010, 4:32 PM
Yep! until you are 21, you can only buy a complete rifle. ATF has ruled that a complete lower, even with a stock on it, is not a rifle. Therefore, on a federal level, it would be completely legal to buy a complete lower, remove the stock and build a pistol with the lower. That's why you have to be 21 to buy anything other than a complete long gun.

AirNavBlue
04-20-2010, 4:37 PM
Alright, thanks for the clarification. I will now kick myself for buying a really nice upper and thinking I can buy a complete lower (followed some bad advice I guess... I was told as long as the lower isn't stripped and is complete with a rifle stock it's considered a rifle). So now I have an upper and can't purchase the lower until I turn 21 in a year and a half!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

383green
04-20-2010, 4:40 PM
Can't one of his parents buy a lower and gift it to him, though?

CSACANNONEER
04-20-2010, 4:41 PM
Alright, thanks for the clarification. I will now kick myself for buying a really nice upper and thinking I can buy a complete lower (followed some bad advice I guess). So now I have an upper and can't purchase the lower until I turn 21 in a year and a half!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Now, if someone else, maybe a parent, wife, girlfriend, etc. who is ove 21 was to buy a stripped lower and build a rifle with it, you could buy it from them later. Either PPT or, in the case of a parent, just do an intrafamilar transfer. They could even use the upper that you don't have a use for.

Kharn
04-20-2010, 5:36 PM
Or if you took your upper to the dealer, he could attach it to the complete lower you want to buy and then sell it to you as a rifle.

CSACANNONEER
04-20-2010, 5:53 PM
Or if you took your upper to the dealer, he could attach it to the complete lower you want to buy and then sell it to you as a rifle.

I'm not sure about that. I believe that the FFL would need a 07FFL.

AirNavBlue
04-20-2010, 6:14 PM
Or if you took your upper to the dealer, he could attach it to the complete lower you want to buy and then sell it to you as a rifle.

If that's true it would make things A LOT easier. I hope this could be done.

CHS
04-21-2010, 8:29 AM
I've done some research and asked a few people and never got a straight answer. Do I have to be 21 to purchase a COMPLETE AR15 lower receiver with a full stock?

I know you have to be 21 to purchase a stripped lower, but isn't a complete lower considered a rifle?

Correct. You have to be 21 to buy a complete lower. A complete lower IS NOT a rifle or a shotgun, which are the only exemptions to the 21yo age requirement for purchasing firearms:

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m446/bdsmchs/ARpistolreceiverletter-page1-web.jpg

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m446/bdsmchs/ARpistolreceiverletter-page2-web.jpg

Can't one of his parents buy a lower and gift it to him, though?

Yup. Mother/father/grandparent could purchase the lower and gift it to you without legal repercussions. When they hand it to you there is no paperwork required either.

Or if you took your upper to the dealer, he could attach it to the complete lower you want to buy and then sell it to you as a rifle.

Only if that dealer is also an 07 manufacturer. If he attaches an upper he is manufacturing a rifle.

A dealer is allowed to do this very occasionally as long as it's not a regular course of business, but it's not really advisable.

dirtyJ
04-21-2010, 9:34 AM
Check your PMs, we love to help out people in this exact situation :).

AirNavBlue
04-21-2010, 3:59 PM
Check your PMs, we love to help out people in this exact situation :).

PM'ed back, I don't know why my message doesn't show up in my "sent" folder though. Hope it went through.

xnv733x
04-23-2010, 9:38 AM
im curious to know also if theyre are options i just had friend call that is in the same position if someone can help him out let me know

dirtyJ
04-23-2010, 11:13 AM
There are many options, shoot me a pm with his specific details and we'll work something out.

GearHead
04-23-2010, 1:50 PM
Wow, I definitely bought my complete lower before I was 21. It was before that ATF letter though.

dfletcher
04-23-2010, 3:15 PM
Wow, I definitely bought my complete lower before I was 21. It was before that ATF letter though.

All this "stripped receiver = handgun" stuff started about 6 months ago, with stock attached is only the last month or so I believe. I've posted the original thread about the buttstock attachment on a few other sites, most folks are entirely unaware.

ke6guj
04-23-2010, 3:22 PM
All this "stripped receiver = handgun" stuff started about 6 months ago, with stock attached is only the last month or so I believe.what?/ stripped receiver doesn't equal handgun. If you read the law you'll see that since 1968, it has been illegal for an FFL to sell ANY firearm to a person less than 21. Except that a rifle or shotgun can be sold to anyone 18 or older. It was in November 2008, IIRC, a year and a half ago, that ATF clarified on the 4473 that a stripped lower is not a rifle or a shotgun. That is why you ahve to be 21 to purchase any stripped lower, or complete lower that doesn't have a barrel assembly. Without a barrel assembly, it doesn't meet the definition of a rifle.

Cokebottle
04-23-2010, 3:31 PM
All this "stripped receiver = handgun" stuff started about 6 months ago, with stock attached is only the last month or so I believe. I've posted the original thread about the buttstock attachment on a few other sites, most folks are entirely unaware.
It's not "stripped receiver = handgun", it's "not a rifle, shotgun, or handgun = other", and under BATF law, ONLY a long gun can be sold to someone under 21.

Someone under 21 can also not purchase a Mossy 500 "Persuader" or other shotgun that is pistol-grip only, as they also fall into the "other" classification.

BATF requires both a buttstock and a barrel > 16" be attached to create a long gun.

This is Federal... not State. California DROS has only "long gun" and "handgun", so within California law, a stripped lower or "cruiser" shotgun would be legal for someone under 21 to buy.

dfletcher
04-23-2010, 6:14 PM
what?/ stripped receiver doesn't equal handgun. If you read the law you'll see that since 1968, it has been illegal for an FFL to sell ANY firearm to a person less than 21. Except that a rifle or shotgun can be sold to anyone 18 or older. It was in November 2008, IIRC, a year and a half ago, that ATF clarified on the 4473 that a stripped lower is not a rifle or a shotgun. That is why you ahve to be 21 to purchase any stripped lower, or complete lower that doesn't have a barrel assembly. Without a barrel assembly, it doesn't meet the definition of a rifle.

Oops - too much shorthand by me. Meant stripped AR lower = must be 21 to buy because it can be a handgun. And I'm getting old, Nov 2008 just seems like last year - it really was 2008? Damn, the memory is going. :p

ke6guj
04-23-2010, 6:17 PM
Oops - too much shorthand by me. Meant stripped AR lower = must be 21 to buy because it can be a handgun. OK, gotcha. But its not that it "could be a handgun", it is because it isn't a rifle or shotgun.



And I'm getting old, Nov 2008 just seems like last year - it really was 2008? Damn, the memory is going. :pyup, 2008, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124598&highlight=4473

woodey
04-23-2010, 6:18 PM
Can't he buy a lower if it was assembled as a complete rifle? No matter how brief of time? That the upper off & sell the lower as a legal long gun.

Amacias805
04-23-2010, 7:00 PM
Alright, thanks for the clarification. I will now kick myself for buying a really nice upper and thinking I can buy a complete lower (followed some bad advice I guess... I was told as long as the lower isn't stripped and is complete with a rifle stock it's considered a rifle). So now I have an upper and can't purchase the lower until I turn 21 in a year and a half!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

find a complete and just sell the upper...

Amacias805
04-23-2010, 7:05 PM
or find someone selling a used lower and sell them your upper for a $1, buy the complete rifle from them, and then you can dros a full long gun!

Cokebottle
04-23-2010, 7:06 PM
must be 21 to buy because it can be a handgun.
That's not why....
It's simply because it's not a long gun without a barrel and a buttstock.

A "cruiser" shotgun cannot be a handgun (unless you make it an SBS), but they are under the same restrictions.



And in California, you can't DROS a stripped lower and build it into a handgun anyways.

Cokebottle
04-23-2010, 7:08 PM
Can't he buy a lower if it was assembled as a complete rifle? No matter how brief of time? That the upper off & sell the lower as a legal long gun.
Must be complete at the time of DROS and pickup.

If his FFL is an 07, then he can hand them his upper, ask them to assemble it and a buttstock to the lower, and he can then buy it as a long gun, but it must be a long gun at the time it goes into "jail" and comes out of jail.