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mac5989
02-24-2006, 12:27 PM
I bought a 10 rnd fixed mag kit but it looks like a 20 rnd mag but it has a block inside that makes it a 10 rnd mag. Can I get in some trouble if I get caught with it at a range if someone mistakes it for a 20 rnd? I bought it here in california so I'm guessing its good but some idiot out there might try and pull some,"YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT!" Just wanted to get advise from you experts cause I'm a noob on this site. And yes I read the FAQ. Thanks:D

1911_Mitch
02-24-2006, 12:33 PM
link or source or pic for mag?

this will help to answer you question.

IIRC any modification to "standard capacity mags" to make them 10 rounders must be PERMANENT

tenpercentfirearms
02-24-2006, 12:37 PM
You would hope someone would try and stick over 10 rounds in it to determine if it held over ten rounds or not. I have one of those. Looks like a standard straight 20 rounder, but it is really 10.

blacklisted
02-24-2006, 12:52 PM
link or source or pic for mag?

this will help to answer you question.

any modification to "standard capacity mags" to make them 10 rounders must be PERMANENT

I'm curious, where does it say it must be permanent?

ocabj
02-24-2006, 1:00 PM
I have some Colt 5-round magazines that are simply Colt 20-round magazines with something in side to prevent more than 5 rounds from being loaded. The floor plates are riveted. These were magazines that Colt sold with their 'Sporter' model of rifles.

1911_Mitch
02-24-2006, 1:01 PM
I'm curious, where does it say it must be permanent?


PC 12276.1 (d)(2):

"Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

fun2none
02-24-2006, 1:08 PM
I'm curious, where does it say it must be permanent?

This is a left-over vestige from the 1994 Federal AWB. The expired law defined "Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices" as any device "that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition;"

So there is no regulation that says 10 round magazines (1994 AWB compliant) must be permanently blocked BUT there is a prior legal precedent that said any magazine that can be readily restored or converted to accept more than 10 rounds would be considered a LCAFD (aka hi-cap or standard cap magazine).

The safest course is to permanently alter a 20-round so that the follower moves no lower than 10.5 rounds. The 0.5 round extra space is needed to load a full mag with the bolt shut.

EDIT:: I stand corrected by previous post. There is a CA statute covering this..

blacklisted
02-24-2006, 1:09 PM
PC 12276.1 (d)(2):

"Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

Thanks.


:mad:

mac5989
02-24-2006, 1:50 PM
Thanks everyone for great info!!!:)

wayoutwest
02-26-2006, 8:29 PM
PC 12276.1 (d)(2):

"Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

SO just what is PERMANENTLY altered?

Is a rivit though the mag only allowing for 10 rounds permanent?
Is a rivit though the mag only allowing for 10 rounds and a welded floor plate?

LOW2000
02-26-2006, 9:28 PM
Permanent means if you tried to undo it, you'd essentially destroy the mag in the process.

If you already owned a high cap, and modified it as such that it would only accept 10 rounds for use in a fixed mag config i.e. you used a pre-2000 30 rounder just for looks sake and blocked it so it only took 10 rounds then fixed it in the rifle, I would think that would be ok.

The purpose of the LCAFD rules is for sale of mags in state, not modification to legally owned "hi-caps".

Since the mag is fixed in your rifle, if someone doesn't believe you, they can break open the weapon and try to load more than 10 rounds, if they cant, then you're safe. For me, I don't see the need to try to bait someone with attention like that though. I'd just buy one of the many 10 round 20rounder lookalikes on the market and be done with it until all of this blows over and you can use your 20, 30 and 100 rounders to your hearts content, which is my plan at least (and I mean that in a strictly hypothetical sense due to the fact that my intent is and has always been to have a fixed mag and/or SB23 compliant semi-auto weapoon.)

troyPhD
02-27-2006, 12:17 AM
I remember seeing Iggy write a letter saying the blocked 20s are, in his opinion, not legal. This was in regards to the Vulcan receivers. It's one of the letters in the "Calguns greatest hits" thread.

Don't kill the messenger.

C.G.
02-27-2006, 12:21 AM
I remember seeing Iggy write a letter saying the blocked 20s are, in his opinion, not legal. This was in regards to the Vulcan receivers. It's one of the letters in the "Calguns greatest hits" thread.

Don't kill the messenger.

However, Vulcan still uses the blocked off 20 rounders to this day, seemingly with DOJs blessing.

CalExile
02-27-2006, 4:29 AM
This is an area I have some interest...lots of old stuff that was never made or isn't available in 10rd mags. Back when men knew what guns were for, and politicians stayed out of it. 20rd Beretta 38A mag...cut down or rivet to prevent follower from full travel? Is this a worthy written question for DOJ?