PDA

View Full Version : News: Militias and firearms lobby fear Barack Obama is trying to take their guns away


wildhawker
04-20-2010, 11:22 AM
When good press goes bad...

Now we are associated with the whackjob/militia movements and appear to be challenging the NRA.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7102256.ece


Tim Reid, Washington

Pistols hanging from belts, rifles slung over backs, hundreds of firearms activists gathered close to the White House yesterday to declare that President Obama is the extremist, not them.

The protest, the first time that campaigners have openly carried weapons in a US national park, came amid growing fears in Washington — voiced last week by Bill Clinton — over the violent anti-Government rhetoric that is spreading across the American heartland.

Equally alarming to many is that the gathering was made up of little-known militia and gun-obsessed organisations that have begun to proliferate since Mr Obama came to power.

One reason for their growing numbers is that they believe the powerful and well-funded National Rifle Association, a powerhouse in expanding the right to bear arms over the past 30 years, has become too mainstream and is not taking on the Obama Administration aggressively enough.

The date of the gathering was also a painful one for gun control and anti-militia groups: it fell on the anniversary of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, which left 168 dead, and the final confrontation between federal authorities and the Branch Davidian cult in Waco, Texas, in 1993. Organisers insist that those dates had nothing to do with the protest. Yesterday was chosen, they say, to mark the 1775 battles at Lexington and Concord that began the War of Independence against British rule.

The demonstration was marked by the same rhetoric that has galvanised the Tea Party movement and which crowds hear from Sarah Palin on an almost daily basis: disgust with Mr Obama’s agenda, rage at his health reform legislation, Government bailouts, accusations of a socialist White House and an unconstitutional takeover of American life by Washington.

“We are in a war,” said Larry Pratt, president of Gunowners of America. “The other side knows they are at war because they started it. They’re coming for our freedom, for our money, for our kids, for our property. They’re coming for everything because they are socialists.”

At the rally were several prominent members of the militia movement, which includes hitherto unknown groups such as Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. They included Mike Vanderboegh, who has advocated throwing bricks through the windows of Democrats who voted for Mr Obama’s health reforms. Another, Tom Fernandez, has organised a nationwide alert system to mobilise armed resistance to any government effort to seize firearms.

What alarms Mr Clinton and others is the fear that the antipathy to Mr Obama and his policies could trigger another home-grown atrocity similar to Timothy McVeigh’s bomb attack in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. Until the September 11 attack, it was the worst act of terrorism on American soil.

Ironically, few protesters credited Mr Obama with signing the Bill that allowed them, for the first time, to carry weapons openly in a federal park. Yesterday’s protest was at Gravelly Point, Virginia, on the doorstep of the reviled Government.

Laws guaranteeing the right to bear arms have also been strengthened in several states since Mr Obama took office, and have been bolstered by the US Supreme Court. Yet the militias believe the President wants to take their guns away. Since Inauguration Day, gun sales have risen by 20 per cent and 80 million people in the US now own guns.

Some of these small groups believe the NRA is too passive. One group, Calguns, says it has spotted a loophole in the Californian law banning assault weapons. They are recruiting lawyers to argue in court that AK47s and other semi-automatic weapons are legal if the models were not on the banned list.

Travis8128
04-20-2010, 11:24 AM
ahhh man no good!

metalhead357
04-20-2010, 11:34 AM
Seriously....What else would you expect from a half educated and highly biased media?

They wouldn't recognize the truth if it came up and wiggled 'em on thier butt:rolleyes:

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 11:37 AM
nice..... I'm suprised the open carry guys were not listed.

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 11:37 AM
Seriously....What else would you expect from a half educated and highly biased media?

They wouldn't recognize the truth if it came up and wiggled 'em on thier butt:rolleyes:

its not about that.... sometimes truth doesnt sell...

I think media should be next to get reformed..

Can'thavenuthingood
04-20-2010, 11:41 AM
He sure covered a lot of territory with a brief article.
Looks like he managed to get it all in though. Must have been left breathless and tired by the time he finished it.

From the U.K., they have a different outlook altogether regarding guns.

Vick

BluNorthern
04-20-2010, 11:48 AM
Seriously....What else would you expect from a half educated and highly biased media?

They wouldn't recognize the truth if it came up and wiggled 'em on thier butt:rolleyes:

Truth has nothing to do with it...it's their agenda. Been seeing this coming on MSNBC's Maddow, she's been linking April 19 with gun rights advocates and militias for the last couple of weeks and mainstream news has been picking it up...herding the sheep.

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 11:49 AM
yeah I noticed the .uk after I posted. I'm sure he worked hard to get all his facts from the internet... Might as well just be a blogger..

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 11:51 AM
Truth has nothing to do with it...it's their agenda. Been seeing this coming on MSNBC's Maddow, she's been linking April 19 with gun rights advocates and militias for the last couple of weeks and mainstream news has been picking it up...herding the sheep.

She knows its a hot topic, and that linking she does makes her look good and well brings ratings = money.

Nodda Duma
04-20-2010, 11:51 AM
What's that saying ... The higher up the ladder you climb, the greater the number of people who can see your *** crack.

Seriously, momentum is on our side...who gives two bits what the media of a socialist European country thinks?

-Jason

Sinixstar
04-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Is anybody really surprised? I mean no offence, but let's call a spade a spade. have you seen some of the stuff people have been spoutin off? let's not turn around and try to pretend there aren't some people out there beating their chests pretty hard - just because it got written up in an article that you don't like

Truth has nothing to do with it...it's their agenda. Been seeing this coming on MSNBC's Maddow, she's been linking April 19 with gun rights advocates and militias for the last couple of weeks and mainstream news has been picking it up...herding the sheep.
It would probably help if we would all stop giving them ammunition...

KALIDAWG8996
04-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Considering this press release is from the UK, where gun rights are about existant as the dodo bird, it's a whole different atmosphere and animal there. This was not targetting an American audience for the most part but, it does not help British public sentiment of Americans in general.

Draankol
04-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Damn, what is that stink? I can almost name it? What is it? Hmmmm, oh yeah, its the stench of the leftist media machine doings it's work.

That's all this is, a leftist, cowardly, lib-tard, dirty hippie puff piece. Give it the credit it deserves. Print it out, and wipe your backside with it next time you give brith to a liberal....

PaperPuncher
04-20-2010, 11:58 AM
They are recruiting lawyers to argue in court that AK47s and other semi-automatic weapons are legal if the models were not on the banned list.

I wish you guys would speed this up a bit so I can finally go buy an AR-15 or an AK-47, lol.

msand951
04-20-2010, 12:01 PM
WOW, WTF
Not to go off the subject but should i go out and get a ar lower so i can have 1 at least.

msand951
04-20-2010, 12:05 PM
How can they call use Calguns in the same sentence as militia. When we are law abiting citizens, Leos, Military, Govenment ,etc.

JDoe
04-20-2010, 12:06 PM
WOW, WTF
Not to go off the subject but should i go out and get a ar lower so i can have 1 at least.

Yes.

Marxman
04-20-2010, 12:07 PM
How can they call use Calguns in the same sentence as militia. When we are law abiting citizens, Leos, Military, Govenment ,etc.

The truth's too inconvenient (see what I did there) for the leftist gun grabbers to acknowledge. They'll just do what they always do - think of the children!

Sinixstar
04-20-2010, 12:09 PM
How can they call use Calguns in the same sentence as militia. When we are law abiting citizens, Leos, Military, Govenment ,etc.

Let's not jump around trying to play the poor-innocent-me game. If we can't be honest with ourselves, then- **** man, i don't even know.

If you don't *get it* already, and you just come on sites like calguns - it's extremely difficult to differentiate between people who are just venting some frustration, and people who are genuinely considering taking up arms against the government. The line gets pretty blurry sometimes.

K1LLROI
04-20-2010, 12:12 PM
Calguns has been in the paper and news quite a bit already. Seems were getting both positive and negative feedback. This one is just plain funny. What loophole??:confused:

Uneducated people are so ignorant.:p

Marxman
04-20-2010, 12:13 PM
Let's not jump around trying to play the poor-innocent-me game. If we can't be honest with ourselves, then- **** man, i don't even know.

If you don't *get it* already, and you just come on sites like calguns - it's extremely difficult to differentiate between people who are just venting some frustration, and people who are genuinely considering taking up arms against the government. The line gets pretty blurry sometimes.

I don't know, people do a pretty good job of differentiating serious from non-serious posts even if the original poster wont. Aside from that there isn't a majority of people that feel or post this way even jokingly, so I can see msand951's point.

msand951
04-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Damn, Im in a tight budget and was going to wait a couple of months. And i dont like using plastic but now is one of those times that i might have to go to riflegear and get those JD lowers.

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 12:18 PM
I'm not happy about california laws, But I dont plan on causing harm over it,
Part of our great rights in the country is the right to move, or openly voice my opinon...
And well I have a home in Arizona and in the Bay Area,
So I can go shoot in Arizona, and come listen to the b.s. in californnia.

Marxman
04-20-2010, 12:18 PM
It's freedom of speech. We enjoy it just as much as they do. Considering this is a .uk publication this is probably the only freedom of speech allowed regarding firearms and firearms groups.

mbuna
04-20-2010, 12:28 PM
Bollocks.

Doheny
04-20-2010, 12:31 PM
We brought much of this on ourselves; every time a post was made talking about revolution, storming the capitol, calling Obama a socialist, etc. We gave them the fodder to lump us in with the rest of the right-wing nut-jobs.

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 12:34 PM
We brought much of this on ourselves; every time a post was made talking about revolution, storming the capitol, calling Obama a socialist, etc. We gave them the fodder to lump us in with the rest of the right-wing nut-jobs.

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

100% correct!

But what do you do about it, you will always have someone in a crowd.

msand951
04-20-2010, 12:50 PM
I became a member here a couple months ago. I really like the site and there is some great info on our sport and hobby. But I do have to agree when people start making remarks, "of taking over the government, revolution stock up on as much ammo as you can, Or what will you do when SHTF". Like if they are wishing for it. Then I would have to agree. There is a line between being a hate group or a support group. Just my 2 cents.

Glock22Fan
04-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Pistols hanging from belts, rifles slung over backs, hundreds of firearms activists gathered close to the White House

So close to the White House that they weren't even in the same state!

I read elsewhere that there was another, unarmed, gathering in D.C., but this one was in Virginia.

turbosbox
04-20-2010, 1:09 PM
100% correct!

But what do you do about it, you will always have someone in a crowd.

Easy :ban: !. Freedom of speech is super important, and remind them to take it over to hutaree.com or opencarry.com or SHTF.com or something.

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 1:16 PM
Easy :ban: !. Freedom of speech is super important, and remind them to take it over to hutaree.com or opencarry.com or SHTF.com or something.

yeah but then you ban them, you then lose as well. you get listed as a ban site and then things go down hill.

I think that as long as everyone understands that you will always have a person in a crowd. And that persons views do not reflect the views of the crowd or website.

Maybe add that to the front page header for a while. So that people may see that we all are not pro-take over....
Then just nudge people to take those views to other websites.

I do think that a letter to that writer is due, Expressing the views do not refect the crowd.

audiophil2
04-20-2010, 1:25 PM
Calguns is getting free press and so many members can only see the negative's in it.
Maybe some research should be done on how many non-CA members have been added since Calguns got in the spotlight.
Use this free press to our advantage instead of complaining and pointing fingers.

Sinixstar
04-20-2010, 1:27 PM
yeah but then you ban them, you then lose as well. you get listed as a ban site and then things go down hill.

I think that as long as everyone understands that you will always have a person in a crowd. And that persons views do not reflect the views of the crowd or website.

Maybe add that to the front page header for a while. So that people may see that we all are not pro-take over....
Then just nudge people to take those views to other websites.

I do think that a letter to that writer is due, Expressing the views do not refect the crowd.

And therein lies the problem.

This kinda goes back to what I said earlier about how the majority of people out there do not know, do not see, and do not care about the back story. They see the sound byte. that's it.

You or I may see that kind of stuff as just gloss over it as hot air. A little chest beating is par for the course. They see a sound byte of somebody standing up talking about taking on the government, and they don't really see any real effort on the part of the rest of the gun owning community to distance themselves from pretty inflammatory language. Since nobody's really making an effort to clarify any kind of positions - that becomes the default image of all gun owners.


I think that as long as everyone understands that you will always have a person in a crowd.

NO

You understand that.
I understand that.
calguns understands that.
We have experience with the pro-2nd community and realize sometimes emotions run hot and words can run even hotter.

The majority of average people out there do NOT understand that. They do NOT have that experience, and can NOT make that distinction.

Therein lies the absolute core of the problem.

Sinixstar
04-20-2010, 1:30 PM
Calguns is getting free press and so many members can only see the negative's in it.
Maybe some research should be done on how many non-CA members have been added since Calguns got in the spotlight.
Use this free press to our advantage instead of complaining and pointing fingers.

i'm going to call this the 'sex-tape to stardom' approach.

Sure it's getting you press - but what kind of reputation are you really getting in the process?

artherd
04-20-2010, 1:35 PM
If this is the best the British mainstream media can do - then I am happy.

jdberger
04-20-2010, 1:39 PM
Love the new avatar, Ben.....

jdberger
04-20-2010, 3:09 PM
An interesting article on how Clinton exploited the Oklahoma City Bombing (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-Clinton-exploited-Oklahoma-City-for-political-gain-91267829.html)and successfully tarred the Right Wing with the extremist label.

Let's not let others label us.

POLICESTATE
04-20-2010, 3:29 PM
Another article from the UK on an American right? Down with the queen I say!

SgtDinosaur
04-20-2010, 4:56 PM
"One group, Calguns, says it has spotted a loophole in the Californian law banning assault weapons. They are recruiting lawyers to argue in court that AK47s and other semi-automatic weapons are legal if the models were not on the banned list."

Uh, didn't this already get resolved, like 5 years ago? Is this what they call "news" in the UK?

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 5:43 PM
UK and fact checking = fail and wrong side of road drivers. :-)

dustoff31
04-20-2010, 6:52 PM
Pistols hanging from belts, rifles slung over backs, hundreds of firearms activists gathered close to the White House yesterday to declare that President Obama is the extremist, not them.

And nothing untoward happened. Absolutely nothing. No revolution, no blood running in the streets, no dead babies, not so much as a good old fashioned pistol whipping. Nothing.

30rdMag
04-20-2010, 7:12 PM
not so much as a good old fashioned pistol whipping. Nothing.



:)

And I think you have a better chance getting hurt from the riot squad that shows up to tear gas and water cannon you. But hey, Its legal for them to do that.

highpowermatch
04-22-2010, 2:02 PM
We brought much of this on ourselves; every time a post was made talking about revolution, storming the capitol, calling Obama a socialist, etc. We gave them the fodder to lump us in with the rest of the right-wing nut-jobs.

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

Lets not blame poor reporting.... Damn free speech. :rolleyes:

highpowermatch
04-22-2010, 2:07 PM
One reason for their growing numbers is that they believe the powerful and well-funded National Rifle Association, a powerhouse in expanding the right to bear arms over the past 30 years, has become too mainstream and is not taking on the Obama Administration aggressively enough.

Expanding? try taking back!!!

Untamed1972
04-22-2010, 2:37 PM
At the rally were several prominent members of the militia movement, which includes hitherto unknown groups such as Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. They included Mike Vanderboegh, who has advocated throwing bricks through the windows of Democrats who voted for Mr Obama’s health reforms. Another, Tom Fernandez, has organised a nationwide alert system to mobilise armed resistance to any government effort to seize firearms.


Since when has JPFO been an unknown group?

RomanDad
04-22-2010, 4:10 PM
One group, Calguns, says it has spotted a loophole in the Californian law banning assault weapons. They are recruiting lawyers to argue in court that AK47s and other semi-automatic weapons are legal if the models were not on the banned list.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/welcome.gif

Lulfas
04-22-2010, 6:59 PM
Since when has JPFO been an unknown group?

As a person who watches the evening news, and spends a fair of chunk of every day reading news online (in between classes), I've never heard of them. Probably fair to call them unknown.

383green
04-22-2010, 7:06 PM
As a person who watches the evening news, and spends a fair of chunk of every day reading news online (in between classes), I've never heard of them. Probably fair to call them unknown.

As a person who's been shooting and crawling around on the Internet since before there was any such thing as a web browser, I've heard of them. ;)