View Full Version : hypothetical sbr curio and relic question

04-15-2010, 6:32 PM
Ive heard that if a short barreled rifle was a listed curio or relic it could be transfered to california. i was wondering based on this example of the volksgewehr 1-5.


its semiauto, short barreled and listed on the c&r list. its longer than 30' and doesnt have any other evil features. expensive, but is it possible?

04-16-2010, 8:55 PM
I am NOT an attorney, DOJ, etc... however, IIRC, California regs trump the Feds (for now). You would need to establish a Firearms Trust - see elsewhere on Calguns - and then, I believe, you can put the firearm "into" the Trust; essentially negating California's regs.

04-17-2010, 12:11 AM
C&R SBRs are CA legal. [PC 12020(b)(7)]

The German VG 1-5 (Volksgewehr) semiautomatic rifle has been delisted from the NFA registery by the BATFE, so no tax stamp is needed to acquire one.

However, C&R status does not exempt it from CA assault weapons laws.

If it is semi-auto centerfire rifle and has a OAL of less than 30", it would be considered an assault weapon. [PC 12276.1(a)(3)]

Luckly, the German VG 1-5 (Volksgewehr) semiautomatic rifle has a barrel length of 14.9" and an overall length of 34.8". Since, it's OAL is greater than 30", it is not considered an assault weapon.

The seller will ship it to a CA 03-FFL.
You will need to let him know he needs to dissassemble the magazine prior to shipping.

Penal Code 12020
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(7) Any firearm or ammunition that is a curio or relic as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and which is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the items pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. Any person prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition who obtains title to these items by bequest or intestate succession may retain title for not more than one year, but actual possession of these items at any time is punishable pursuant to Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code. Within the year, the person shall transfer title to the firearms or ammunition by sale, gift, or other disposition. Any person who violates this paragraph is in violation of subdivision (a).

Penal Code 12276.1
(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

04-17-2010, 7:01 AM
I thought the barrel length had to be over 16 inchs.Wouldn't that make it illegal?Would that be a AOW?

04-17-2010, 10:12 AM
I thought the barrel length had to be over 16 inchs.Wouldn't that make it illegal?yes, the barrel of a rifle needs to be >16" lest it be considered an SBR. However, since it is a C&R SBR, as long as it is properly possessed per federal law, it is exempt from CA's SBR regs.

Would that be a AOW?no, it would be an SBR.

04-17-2010, 10:17 AM
WOW! reserve not meet! $16K

04-17-2010, 5:10 PM
What's nice is that ammo is available for that gun at $10-12 a box, which isn't bad for a specialty caliber.

05-05-2010, 1:20 AM
Anyone got a spare $21,000 lying around?

05-05-2010, 4:43 AM
Wow that is expensive! First time seeing one of these to, I like it.:)

05-05-2010, 5:57 AM
Wow...I wonder if the designers ever imagined that their cheap, throwaway, peasant rifle would one day command sufficient money to arm a decent militia, or buy a quality car.

Very cool..."last ditch" weapons are historically very interesting.

Dr. Peter Venkman
05-05-2010, 7:27 AM
I've only seen those in museums. Very cool piece of history there; wish I had the money.

05-05-2010, 7:31 AM
WOW! reserve not meet! $16K

$21K wasn't enough.