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View Full Version : Do mail order C&R pistols count towards the 30 day rule?


ROTC sniper
04-14-2010, 10:27 AM
I wanted to buy a couple of tokarev t33s online with my c&r license and was wondering if they count towards the one per 30 day rule. I'm already back logged and have a number of new pistols just waiting for me to begin the DROS period but was hoping that when I order stuff online it wouldn't count. Thanks guys.

littlejake
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
I wanted to buy a couple of tokarev t33s online with my c&r license and was wondering if they count towards the one per 30 day rule. I'm already back logged and have a number of new pistols just waiting for me to begin the DROS period but was hoping that when I order stuff online it wouldn't count. Thanks guys.

IIRC -- C&R pistols do not count in the 1 in 30 days. Remember, the transfer from the online source through a CA dealer for DROS is called an FFL transfer; and they may charge you what ever process fee they wish; so line up a good dealer to receive them in advance.

If you had your C&R plus COE, you wouldn't have a queue of handguns waiting to DROS. As it stands now, that combination is an exemption from 1 in 30 even for new handguns.

A dealer would have to file a multiple handgun transfer form with BATF if you DROS more than one in 7 (I think 7, might be 5) days. That's just ATF looking for people acting like dealers. As long as they are not coming in and going out like a dealer, it's not a problem.

TWoods450
04-14-2010, 11:12 AM
I believe the 30 day rule is for NEW handguns only.

savasyn
04-14-2010, 11:21 AM
Unless you have a C&R and COE, any handgun that you get at a CA dealer counts towards the 1 in 30 rule.

If you have a C&R handgun sent to a local shop, you DROS it just like any other handgun, there is nothing special about it being a C&R in that case. You will also have to log it into your bound book like any other C&R. You'll log it in as purchased from your local FFL, not whomever you had ship it to them as it'll be logged into and out of your local FFL.

If you have a C&R and COE, you still have to do all of that except that you can take it home with you after you DROS (you don't have to wait 10 days) and you can buy multiple handguns per month(modern or C&R) as long as all of them are DROS'd under the "collector" exemption. There is another exemption that also works, but the collector one has gotten me through many DROSes regardless of age of the gun.

Edit to add: Here's a quote from the CA DOJ FAQ on this(underlining added by me):

"I am a collector of firearms and I want to purchase a pair of consecutively-numbered pistols. Does the one-handgun-per-30-day restriction apply?

No. If you possess a valid federal Curio Relics Collector's license and a valid California Certificate of Eligibility, you are exempt from the one-handgun-per-30-day restriction.

(PC section 12072(a)(9)(x))"

ke6guj
04-14-2010, 12:06 PM
IIRC -- C&R pistols do not count in the 1 in 30 days. .the 1-in-30 rule applies to all handgun transfers, except for those few exemptions, such as PPT/cosignment. C&R status is not an exemption.

I believe the 30 day rule is for NEW handguns only.the 30-day rule applies to both all NEW and USED handgun transfers, except for those exempt transfers such as PPT/Cosignment/C&R+COE/etc.

ROTC sniper
04-14-2010, 12:23 PM
So in this instance I want to buy the pistols from southern Ohio gun. I would still have to send them to a local FFL even though I have my c&r? I couldn't have them sent to me directly? Is it only long guns that they can send to us directly? Thanks guys for all the info. Lois like my next step is getting my COE.

dfletcher
04-14-2010, 12:24 PM
I think the easy way to remember the "1 per 30" is this - if it comes from the dealer's stock of firearms, whether used or new, it counts.

When a handgun is transferred from out of state it enters the dealer stock - that's how the roster gets involved with handguns coming in from out of state. C & Rs and SA revolvers, single shot pistols are exempt from the roster but they do still enter the dealer's stock.

858casper858
04-14-2010, 12:37 PM
You will also have to log it into your bound book like any other C&R.

But if the gun is DROS'ed then why do you need to log it in your book? I thought the book was for logging C&R eligible firearms being transfered without a dealer.

ke6guj
04-14-2010, 12:38 PM
So in this instance I want to buy the pistols from southern Ohio gun. I would still have to send them to a local FFL even though I have my c&r? I couldn't have them sent to me directly?correct. All handguns, including C&R, have to go through a CA FFL, with limited exemptions. Having a C&R FFL is not an exemption unless you physically go out of state to take possession of the C&R handgun and then bring it back into CA with you (and then register it with CADOJ within 5-days).


Is it only long guns that they can send to us directly? Thanks guys for all the info. Lois like my next step is getting my COE.correct. They can send any 50+ year-old C&R long guns directly to you. Any <50-year-old C&Rs, such as a Yugo "SKS", would still need to go through a CA dealer to be DROSed to you.

ke6guj
04-14-2010, 12:40 PM
But if the gun is DROS'ed then why do you need to log it in your book? I thought the book was for logging C&R eligible firearms being transfered without a dealer.

Because federal law says that you must log all acquistions of C&R firearms that happen WHILE you are licensed. YOu don't USE your license, you ARE licensed.

858casper858
04-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Because federal law says that you must log all acquistions of C&R firearms that happen WHILE you are licensed. YOu don't USE your license, you ARE licensed.

I'm still new to this, so if I'm licensed and I buy a mosin at Big5 and do the DROS and wait ten days, I still have to log it in my book?

ke6guj
04-14-2010, 1:06 PM
I'm still new to this, so if I'm licensed and I buy a mosin at Big5 and do the DROS and wait ten days, I still have to log it in my book?Yes.

858casper858
04-14-2010, 1:10 PM
Ok cool, thanks Ke6guj!

TWoods450
04-14-2010, 1:23 PM
the 1-in-30 rule applies to all handgun transfers, except for those few exemptions, such as PPT/cosignment. C&R status is not an exemption.

the 30-day rule applies to both all NEW and USED handgun transfers, except for those exempt transfers such as PPT/Cosignment/C&R+COE/etc.

I stand corrected, wyatt, you are an oak.

M. D. Van Norman
04-14-2010, 2:42 PM
Having a C&R FFL is not an exemption unless you physically go out of state to take possession of the C&R handgun and then bring it back into CA with you (and then register it with CADOJ within 5-days).

While I donít agree with this interpretation, SOG will not ship you a C&R handgun directly, as SOG was a defendant in the lawsuit that appears to have established said interpretation.

But the big Reno show is this weekend. :D

littlejake
04-14-2010, 3:59 PM
To the OP. As you can see, having a COE has advantages. I got my first COE in 2007. I dowloaded the form, filled it out, found a live-scan operator and got printed, went to the post office and got a postal MO for the fees and sent it USPS Priority mail. Took most of one morning to do.

It arrived 3 weeks later. Renewals are easy, they send a form well in advance.

Get the form here:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf

You can likely get it quickly and clear your queue of handguns waiting to be DROS'ed to you.

Kindest Regards,

Jake

ROTC sniper
04-14-2010, 7:02 PM
This forum is awesome. I get so much info, bought so much stuff, meeting and gone shooting with a bunch of the guys on here. Thanks for everything guys.

ROTC sniper
05-19-2010, 11:55 PM
Hey guys, hate to bring up an old thread but had a question. I just got my COE today. Have my C&R already. Question is this: if I have both of those and I want to DROS a pistol, or rifle for that matter, can I take it home right away or do I still have to wait the 10 days. I am going to clear my queue of pistols but they are all over the place and I don't want to have to drive back nor wait if I don't have to. Also I just started DROS on a few pistols last Saturday, (couple of PPTs and a new pistol), can I pick those up early? I'd like to practice with them before a 3 gun match coming up. Thanks!

ke6guj
05-20-2010, 12:02 AM
the 10-day wait exemption only applies to C&R firearms, not modern firearms.

ROTC sniper
05-20-2010, 12:05 AM
the 10-day wait exemption only applies to C&R firearms, not modern firearms.

Oh well. Thanks Jack. At least I can start the DROS on everything.

savasyn
05-20-2010, 12:08 AM
Hey guys, hate to bring up an old thread but had a question. I just got my COE today. Have my C&R already. Question is this: if I have both of those and I want to DROS a pistol, or rifle for that matter, can I take it home right away or do I still have to wait the 10 days. I am going to clear my queue of pistols but they are all over the place and I don't want to have to drive back nor wait if I don't have to. Also I just started DROS on a few pistols last Saturday, (couple of PPTs and a new pistol), can I pick those up early? I'd like to practice with them before a 3 gun match coming up. Thanks!

The C&R + COE combo only eliminates the 10 wait on C&R firearms, it does NOT apply to modern ones of any type. If they were C&Rs then yes, you could have taken them home that day, if they were not C&R then you'll have to wait.

Hopefully all the non-PPT DROSs you started were done with the "Collectors" exemption in the computer or all but the first will be denied and you'll lose the DROS fees. If they were all done with the exemption, then you'll be good to go. PPTs will be fine without.

ROTC sniper
05-20-2010, 1:06 AM
Yeah the ones that I DROS on Saturday was one rifle, one pistol ppt and one new one. I'm gonna start the DROS on all the other pistols this weekend. So when I DROS, I guess I'll have to bring in copies of my C&R and COE and let them know it should be classified as a collectors exemption?

savasyn
05-20-2010, 8:54 AM
I'm not 100%, but you might be hosed already if you didn't DROS the new pistol the other day with the "collector" exemption. I suppose you could try doing one more making sure they do the collector thing and wait the 10 days and see what happens. If it goes through, you can start the rest(with exemption) and if it doesn't, you'll have to wait 30 days to start over.

Yes, bring your C&R and COE. The gun store will have to keep copies of them with the DROS packet in case they get audited. In my experience, you'll have to be very clear that they need to select the exemption in the DROS computer. If they don't do it one time when you are doing more than 1 in 30 days, it could put you into a 30 day wait and possibly some denied DROSs(which means you lose the money for all denied ones). Most places don't understand the law regarding C&R and COE as it's not really all that common. You may need to bring in the PC to show them that it really works for multiple modern handgun purchases(but not eliminating the 10 day wait).