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View Full Version : Are BP exempt from destructive device laws?


wilit
04-12-2010, 11:07 PM
If so, I want this bad boy.

http://www.vincelewis.net/2bore.html

Saigon1965
04-12-2010, 11:39 PM
Did you scolled all the way down to read this part -

At the time of writing 20th June 2009, a 2 bore cartridge costs between $80.00 to $85.00 each. Even hand loading them yourself is a major expense as the empty cartridge cases are $495.00 per pack of 10 ( shipped ) and solid bronze or copper bullets are $295.00 per pack of 10 ( shipped ) which now actually equals $790.00 for 10 rounds of 2 bore ammunition. Just imagine firing off 50 rounds down the range, it would cost you about four thousand bucks !

Now...are you sure that you still want one?

Argonaut
04-12-2010, 11:51 PM
A black powder rifle that is a breech loader is a rifle, a muzzleloader is not a firearm. The only legal problem here might be how our 50BMG laws are written. (I don't know) but I have a friend with a 4 gauge rifle and 12 gauge rifled barrels are legal.......It is probably legal. And if it were a C&R it would be easier yet. A muzzle loading cannon of any size is legal as long as you are not firing explosive projectiles.

mls343
04-13-2010, 4:29 AM
A speciality weapon - for sure! Not for the fainthearted or financially weak either...

Good luck!

E Pluribus Unum
04-13-2010, 4:59 AM
A black powder rifle that is a breech loader is a rifle, a muzzleloader is not a firearm. The only legal problem here might be how our 50BMG laws are written. (I don't know) but I have a friend with a 4 gauge rifle and 12 gauge rifled barrels are legal.......It is probably legal. And if it were a C&R it would be easier yet. A muzzle loading cannon of any size is legal as long as you are not firing explosive projectiles.

Our .50 BMG laws only effect .50 BMG. There are other .50 caliber rounds which do not meet the physical dimensions of a .50 BMG and those are legal.

littlejake
04-13-2010, 5:27 AM
Doesn't California have a prohibition on fixed ammunition above 60 caliber? Even if it is a blackpowder cartridge...

That thing belongs on a gun carriage with wheels and trails.

E Pluribus Unum
04-13-2010, 5:35 AM
Doesn't California have a prohibition on fixed ammunition above 60 caliber? Even if it is a blackpowder cartridge...

That thing belongs on a gun carriage with wheels and trails.

Yes

CPC 12301(a)(3)

Quiet
04-13-2010, 5:41 AM
Penal Code 12301
(a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons:
(3) Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a "destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition (single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon. For purposes of this section, the term "antique cannon" means any cannon manufactured before January 1, 1899, which has been rendered incapable of firing or for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. The term "antique rifle" means a firearm conforming to the definition of an "antique firearm" in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

27 CFR 479.11
Antique firearm.
Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Destructive device.
(a) Any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (1) bomb, (2) grenade, (3) rocket having a propellent charge of more than 4 ounces, (4) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (5) mine, or (6) similar device;
(b) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Director finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes;
(c) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as described in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this definition and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term shall not include any device which is neither designed or redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army under 10 U.S.C. 4684(2), 4685, or 4686, or any device which the Director finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

Argonaut
04-13-2010, 12:09 PM
Doesn't California have a prohibition on fixed ammunition above 60 caliber? Even if it is a black powder cartridge...

That thing belongs on a gun carriage with wheels and trails.

So, How does effect a 12 Gauge rifled barrel shotgun? That is well over 60 caliber and shoots a slug.................

littlejake
04-13-2010, 1:01 PM
So, How does effect a 12 Gauge rifled barrel shotgun? That is well over 60 caliber and shoots a slug.................

Penal Code 12301
(a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons:
(3) Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a "destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition (single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon. For purposes of this section, the term "antique cannon" means any cannon manufactured before January 1, 1899, which has been rendered incapable of firing or for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. The term "antique rifle" means a firearm conforming to the definition of an "antique firearm" in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

Z ME FLY
04-13-2010, 1:10 PM
I have no clue what you folks are talking about but........

I would love a BP shotgun :) The tiny cut down pistol version that was posted here a couple of weeks ago. Maybe one of these days.

littlejake
04-13-2010, 2:33 PM
A little calculation on that 1.326 inch bore reveals that if it were a shotgun, it would be a 2 gauge.

(I seem to recall nothing larger than a 10 gauge is legal in CA....)

ke6guj
04-13-2010, 2:36 PM
(I seem to recall nothing larger than a 10 gauge is legal in CA....)

based on the definition of a destructive device, I don't see a gauge limit for shotguns in CA.

sargenv
04-13-2010, 3:08 PM
I think the restriction on gauge is for the hunting regs.. 10 gauge is the largest shotgun you can use on game animals be they waterfowl or big game. I don't know that an 8 gauge can't be used for anything else save boiler scale removal.. I'm not sure I'd want to fire that behemoth.. :D

Z ME FLY
04-13-2010, 6:23 PM
Isn't there a thing called a punt gun? or something? Basically a big old shotgun?

littlejake
04-14-2010, 9:10 AM
Isn't there a thing called a punt gun? or something? Basically a big old shotgun?

Seems you are correct. I'd never heard the term... but here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

Z ME FLY
04-14-2010, 3:08 PM
Seems you are correct. I'd never heard the term... but here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

Nah this one is better! For us who don't like to read haha

n7FeeamC4qk

That's a big ol shotgun! Just looked it up, it's probably been posted somewhere here before.

justMike
04-14-2010, 10:27 PM
An old guy I used to work with told me about a zero gauge shotgun used in
the Revolutionary War. He said you could drop a silver dollar down the barrel and it wouldn't hit either side (possible exaggeration). Said it had a stock curved both left and right for placing up against a tree. Used for shooting horses out from under His Majesty's soldiers. This guy seemed to know alot and not a B.S.er but I never verified (before internet) if it was true. Sounds real believable to me though.

wolff
04-16-2010, 10:24 PM
2 Gauge!? If Gauge was determined by the number of lead balls you can put down the barrel to make a pound way back when, then this bad boy fires eight ounces of shot or slug:eek: at just 1,000fps, you get 7,700+ft/lbs of energy - that's stopping power!
The type of propellant used won't be a factor used to classify this particular rifle as a DD or not - unless it's a repro of an antique BP rifle.