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View Full Version : garand to BM59/BM62 conversion legality?


tzahoy
02-20-2006, 8:00 AM
Okay, I've got a stash of BM59 mags I acquired many years ago as I knew I would buy one, and the deal was too good to pass up. Not long afterwards the BM59 was outlawed by Roberti-Roos :( My question is, if I convert a Garand to accept these, and add a BM59 stock am I in violation of any laws. I would still be using a Garand gas system, so it's technically not a BM59 yet, and if anything is more like a BM62 which is not on the list to my knowledge.

How far can I go with this conversion before I'm treading on thin ice? If I use all BM59 parts and a modified Garand receiver, am I in the green, or the red? I assume with any of these conversions I have to stay clear of threaded barrels and flash suppressors as well, is this correct?

I've searched and read a lot of stuff on this, and I cannot seem to find a clear answer. The only thing I have found is that it's easy to find yourself breaking the law unintentionally in this state due to the vagueness and ambiguity...

Thanks for your help!

xenophobe
02-20-2006, 9:27 AM
Threaded barrels are okay. Just keep away from the tri-compensator. You would need a muzzle break or a standard Garand type gas cylinder lock to keep it legal.

Charliegone
02-20-2006, 12:04 PM
Yeah, plus if you use a garand receiver you really do not have much to worry about. All you gotta do is follow sb23 and your fine.:D

shopkeep
02-20-2006, 12:42 PM
I have seen M-1 Garand adapted to accept BAR mags and M-14 magazines before. I don't see why there would be any problem adapting them to accept a BM-59/62 mag. As long as there is no Flash Hider, pistol grip, or other evil features it will be fine. Just be sure you post a picture of the finished product!

Stanze
02-20-2006, 12:57 PM
That project sounds like it would kick major arse!

Keep us updated.:cool:

Sgt Raven
02-20-2006, 1:35 PM
Okay, I've got a stash of BM59 mags I acquired many years ago as I knew I would buy one, and the deal was too good to pass up. Not long afterwards the BM59 was outlawed by Roberti-Roos :( My question is, if I convert a Garand to accept these, and add a BM59 stock am I in violation of any laws. I would still be using a Garand gas system, so it's technically not a BM59 yet, and if anything is more like a BM62 which is not on the list to my knowledge.
Thanks for your help!

Not all BM-59s were outlawed, just the ones marked Springfield Arms.

HEUER
02-20-2006, 2:07 PM
Not all BM-59s were outlawed, just the ones marked Springfield Arms.


Is this true? Why can you not buy Berreta BM-59'S/

Charliegone
02-20-2006, 2:56 PM
No the beretta one is also outlawed. Look at the AW list w/ pics. It specifically says it might say "Beretta bm-59." :mad:

Stanze
02-20-2006, 3:10 PM
No the beretta one is also outlawed. Look at the AW list w/ pics. It specifically says it might say "Beretta bm-59." :mad:

Hmmm...that AW "guide" is just that, I wonder if the Beretta BM-59 is on the Roberti-Roos? If it isn't, then the DOJ may of just slipped the Beretta BM-59 in the AW guide to cause confusion(presuming it's legal and complies with SB-23), like they did with the AR/AK "series" or "all". But, we know they wouldn't ever do THAT!:rolleyes:

Make em' fess up with a letter like the non-listed lowers.:D

Sgt Raven
02-20-2006, 4:52 PM
Hmmm...that AW "guide" is just that, I wonder if the Beretta BM-59 is on the Roberti-Roos? If it isn't, then the DOJ may of just slipped the Beretta BM-59 in the AW guide to cause confusion(presuming it's legal and complies with SB-23), like they did with the AR/AK "series" or "all". But, we know they wouldn't ever do THAT!:rolleyes:

Make em' fess up with a letter like the non-listed lowers.:D

The Roberti- Roos lists (3) Beretta AR-70. (13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48. It does not list the Beretta BM59.

Sgt Raven
02-20-2006, 4:57 PM
No the beretta one is also outlawed. Look at the AW list w/ pics. It specifically says it might say "Beretta bm-59." :mad:

Only if it was imported by Springfield Armory and is so marked as the R/R list says (13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48. Other companies also imported the BM59 and those ones don't say Springfield Armory anywhere on them. Notice no where in R/R does it say series for the BM59.

dwtt
02-20-2006, 7:20 PM
Only if it was imported by Springfield Armory and is so marked as the R/R list says (13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48. Other companies also imported the BM59 and those ones don't say Springfield Armory anywhere on them. Notice no where in R/R does it say series for the BM59.
Sooo, if one were to get a BM-59 with a national ordnance receiver, it would be legal in CA since it's not on the Roos-Roberti or SB23 series? Of course any flash hider would be removed.
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2300/2335.htm
I like this line of thinking.:D

Charliegone
02-20-2006, 7:21 PM
My bad I thought it said that, but it actually says

"The marking "Beretta" may also be found but is not material to identifying it as an assault weapon." So in other words it doesn't really matter.:D

I heard sarco had some beretta bm59 kits for sale for like 400 something bucks.

tzahoy
02-20-2006, 9:35 PM
Thanks for all of the responses. I'll definitely post pictures when the time comes.

Sarco does have BM59 kits, comes with everything but the receiver. You need a modified Garand receiver, I'll let you all know how the modifications go when I get around to it. The Sarco kits are $595, or $495 in a quantity of three or more, but they come with a 20 round mag, which makes shipping to CA a small problem. The other problem is I've never seen anything smaller than a 20 round BM59 mag, and they don't interchange with anything else.

I'll keep you posted on the project!

bwiese
02-20-2006, 9:44 PM
My bad I thought it said that, but it actually says

"The marking "Beretta" may also be found but is not material to identifying it as an assault weapon." So in other words it doesn't really matter.:D

I heard sarco had some beretta bm59 kits for sale for like 400 something bucks.


Um, that's outdated info. It has to be banned by make AND model. While Harrott addressed AR/AK 'series' membership, the broader context would apply to specificity for other guns.

vf111
05-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Resurrecting this thread w/ a thought: how about taking a Garand tanker, sticking the BM-59 tricompensator on it w/ bipod and keeping the en-bloc clip system? Since the en-bloc clip is not a detachable magazine, it seems like a good way to get a sorta BM59 clone without a lot of hassle. This also doesn't mess up the Garand receiver in case I ever want to change it back to it's classic form.

shopkeep
05-02-2006, 1:40 AM
Resurrecting this thread w/ a thought: how about taking a Garand tanker, sticking the BM-59 tricompensator on it w/ bipod and keeping the en-bloc clip system? Since the en-bloc clip is not a detachable magazine, it seems like a good way to get a sorta BM59 clone without a lot of hassle. This also doesn't mess up the Garand receiver in case I ever want to change it back to it's classic form.

Don't forget to throw on the Nigerian MARK IV folding pistol grip stock also. And then just for kicks add the scout scope mount from Fulton Armory.

tzahoy
05-02-2006, 8:02 AM
I say bring it on! This is the best platform out there for a useable CA legal autoloading rifle. Way faster to reload than a CA compliant AR based rifle. And you could build it for less money as well.

If you look in the "Trader's Bulletin Board" section of the CMP forum you can buy Tanker kits for $200 shipped. This includes a new .308 barrel and the shortened op-rod and follower rod, new op rod spring and front handguard. Get a woodless dane rom the CMP for $295, and a pistol grip Nigerian stock from Reese surplus for $75 and you are in business! Yeah you'll spend a little more scrounging for handguards and stock metal and headspacing the barrel but it's all easy stuff.

Let's see 'em!

CEDaytonaRydr
04-05-2010, 2:05 PM
Sooo, if one were to get a BM-59 with a national ordnance receiver, it would be legal in CA since it's not on the Roos-Roberti or SB23 series? Of course any flash hider would be removed.
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2300/2335.htm
I like this line of thinking.:D

I'm thinking about building a BM59 and I had a question on this:

I was considering doing this because I have an extra barreled receiver lying around. Unfortunately, that receiver is a Springfield. Are the ones that are banned marked specifically "BM59" or would it be illegal for me to use a Springfield receiver to build a BM59?

Group B
04-05-2010, 2:08 PM
Those BM-59/62 mags are pricey!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158645418

CEDaytonaRydr
04-05-2010, 2:13 PM
Those BM-59/62 mags are pricey!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158645418

Lucky for me, I already have a few lying around.

(benefits of a country upbringing) ;)

ohsmily
04-05-2010, 2:18 PM
Wow, a necro from almost four years ago. Fantastic.

vf111
04-05-2010, 2:21 PM
I'm thinking about building a BM59 and I had a question on this:

I was considering doing this because I have an extra barreled receiver lying around. Unfortunately, that receiver is a Springfield. Are the ones that are banned marked specifically "BM59" or would it be illegal for me to use a Springfield receiver to build a BM59?

It has to say "Springfield Armory" and "BM59" to be banned per Harrot. A Garand Springfield Armory receiver will only say M1. You do need to be make sure you don't install the pistol grip stocks or the flash-hider if you want to go detachable mags. Another thing to remember is the BM59 tricompensator is also a grenade launcher which is banned in another section of the Penal Code as a "destructive device". You will need to weld something onto it to prevent the ability to slide a grenade on.

vf111
04-05-2010, 2:22 PM
Wow, a necro from almost four years ago. Fantastic.

Yeah, the guy above should've probably started a new post...:o

Josh3239
04-05-2010, 3:39 PM
Wow, a necro from almost four years ago. Fantastic.

Haha, we need a zombie smilie for dead threads being brought back to life.

CEDaytonaRydr
04-05-2010, 4:07 PM
Haha, we need a zombie smilie for dead threads being brought back to life.

If I'd have started a new thread, the first 3 replies would have been people blasting me for not using the search button... :rolleyes:

You can't have it both ways...



So! BM59s?

CSDGuy
04-05-2010, 4:13 PM
There is a tri-comp that has been modified and is JUST a compensator, not a Grenade Launcher...

My Garand doesn't have much kick, but putting a brake on it would make it even softer shooting... but I'd have to be careful about gas port pressures as I've read that brakes do increase port pressure.

CEDaytonaRydr
04-05-2010, 4:18 PM
It has to say "Springfield Armory" and "BM59" to be banned per Harrot. A Garand Springfield Armory receiver will only say M1. You do need to be make sure you don't install the pistol grip stocks or the flash-hider if you want to go detachable mags. Another thing to remember is the BM59 tricompensator is also a grenade launcher which is banned in another section of the Penal Code as a "destructive device". You will need to weld something onto it to prevent the ability to slide a grenade on.


Thanks! Great info...

I've been reading that the receiver has to be modified as well and I am wondering how complicated that process would be. It looks like it's just two diagonal cuts on the bottom to accept the Mag. Do you have to have a Mill, or will some steady band-saw work do the trick?

Jim McCoin
04-05-2010, 5:54 PM
I'm curious to see how the modification to the Garand reciever works, I also have seen M1's modified to use BAR mag's, but that was a long time ago.

I bought a M62 in the early 80's, I have a few thousand rounds through it and Love It.

Jim

Josh3239
04-05-2010, 5:55 PM
I am not blasting you, I just thought it was funny. :thumbsup:

If I'd have started a new thread, the first 3 replies would have been people blasting me for not using the search button... :rolleyes:

You can't have it both ways...



So! BM59s?

vf111
04-05-2010, 6:10 PM
Thanks! Great info...

I've been reading that the receiver has to be modified as well and I am wondering how complicated that process would be. It looks like it's just two diagonal cuts on the bottom to accept the Mag. Do you have to have a Mill, or will some steady band-saw work do the trick?

Check this out:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275989

Not the classic BM59 but rather the BM59E (or SL) but gives you a good idea of what mods are needed.

CEDaytonaRydr
04-05-2010, 6:12 PM
I'm curious to see how the modification to the Garand reciever works, I also have seen M1's modified to use BAR mag's, but that was a long time ago.


Hmmm...

Is that easier, or harder to do? That would be one way of keeping it .30-06, which would be kinda kewl... :)

Josh3239
04-05-2010, 6:14 PM
Tim Shuff at Shuff's Parkerizing does M1 conversions, one of the conversions he offers is a .308 conversion that accepts M1A mags, he could probably do other mags.

CEDaytonaRydr
04-06-2010, 9:03 AM
Tim Shuff at Shuff's Parkerizing does M1 conversions, one of the conversions he offers is a .308 conversion that accepts M1A mags, he could probably do other mags.

That would be better. I have more of those than I do the BM59 mags.

Metric pattern FAL mags would be better still. I have a bunch of those...

If the M1A mags are an option, would it still be a good idea to get the BM59 kit from SARCO? I'm sure a lot of the parts will be able to be used for that build, correct?