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taperxz
04-11-2010, 5:55 PM
How many hunters here think a game warden can knock on your door and inspect your freezer anytime they want? If you think they can, its FUD!!!

SLYoteBoy
04-11-2010, 6:01 PM
Was always under the impression they could.

picasso
04-11-2010, 6:09 PM
How many hunters here think a game warden can knock on your door and inspect your freezer anytime they want? If you think they can, its FUD!!!

If your freezer is in the camp (NF or BLM), I "think" they can without a warrant.

ScottB
04-11-2010, 6:16 PM
How many hunters here think a game warden can knock on your door and inspect your freezer anytime they want? If you think they can, its FUD!!!

Code citation with comments please?

Cokebottle
04-11-2010, 6:23 PM
Code citation with comments please?
US Constitution
4th Amendment

yoteassasin
04-11-2010, 6:37 PM
oh johnny green-pants..... his job is to make money issuing citations NOT be your friend. and btw stupid people believing in bogus laws are the biggest threat to freedom we have. he will push and you need to push back

taperxz
04-11-2010, 6:47 PM
A California Game Warden has no more powers than any police officer in this state! He needs probable cause or a search warrant unless you allow him in!

jltapia
04-12-2010, 8:09 AM
A California Game Warden has no more powers than any police officer in this state! He needs probable cause or a search warrant unless you allow him in!

You are right Taperxz. I agree with you.

RikSors
04-12-2010, 8:11 AM
How many hunters here think a game warden can knock on your door and inspect your freezer anytime they want? If you think they can, its FUD!!!

This is a perfect case for a "good" FUD!

Makes the poachers think twice.

Spread the FUD...

professionalcoyotehunter
04-12-2010, 8:12 AM
With probable cause they can. It happened t a buddy of mines buddy.

SickofSoCal
04-12-2010, 8:13 AM
If you're an American, there is something called the 4th Amendment........

napahunter
04-12-2010, 8:25 AM
Back up your statement..Your wrong. Mr. Greenjeans can can do what they want. I don't care about what anyone has to say. I seen it first hand, just like PCH.
Think what you want. When the man's at your door, you'll find out how it all plays out first hand.

taperxz
04-12-2010, 9:02 AM
Remember, it is OK for a LEO to lie!! US constitution is the supreme law of the land and no where does it say except for game wardens!!

It would play out like this: GW at the door, and says"I am here to inspect your freezer" You, Thinking he can wonders if this is right. He says "you know i can come in and check anytime i want" You believe him and open the door. BINGO You have opened up to consent. He lied!! You believed him. He needs probable cause or a warrant!!

taperxz
04-12-2010, 9:04 AM
Ask any LEO in this forum and they will tell you a GW has no more powers than any other LE in the state.

BigJB
04-12-2010, 10:22 AM
My Grandfather was a DFG warden. He had thousands of stories about busting poachers. He always had to get a warrant to search in peoples homes for evidence, cars no. He only needed probable cause to search cars. Although onetime he was closing in on some poachers who happened to be Marines living on Camp Pendelton, MPs searched their freezers with no warrant, turns out they poached on base as well, they were screwed.

HokeySon
04-12-2010, 10:33 AM
Remember, it is OK for a LEO to lie!! US constitution is the supreme law of the land and no where does it say except for game wardens!!

It would play out like this: GW at the door, and says"I am here to inspect your freezer" You, Thinking he can wonders if this is right. He says "you know i can come in and check anytime i want" You believe him and open the door. BINGO You have opened up to consent. He lied!! You believed him. He needs probable cause or a warrant!!

well, maybe, maybe not ... it depends upon how well your lawyer argues it later. The law is clear that a LE can misrepresent facts to get a confession. I do not think the law supports a LE misrepresenting the law to get consent to a search; I believe that under those circs, the consent is invalid. Got an appeal going on this very issue where govt misrepresented law on getting infor from insurance carrier.

I think the correct response to the GW is: "you know, I really don't think that is true, I am not going to interfere with you, but I do not consent to any warrantless search." The time to argue is later in court, you don't win arguments on the street/bush/world with any LEO's.

ScottB
04-12-2010, 1:22 PM
You can't just say "4th Amendment!" and declare that's the end of the story. The Constitution is interpreted through case law and precedent - and there are boat loads of precedent and rulings regarding the 4th Amendment

I'm sure they need a warrant, like anyone else. If the initial claim was that a warden can randomly select a house and enter at will, that's silly and nobody with any sense would have read the question that way.

"any time" to me just implicitly recognizes that can get a warrant "any time" without much trouble if they have any reason to suspect illegal game parts. If you are on their radar, LEOs can generally obtain a warrant.

Also, if their intent is to just inflict an ad hoc penalty on you, why would they care if things eventually get decided in your favor? How much time and money, loss of reputation etc., did they inflict along the way?

Best way to avoid having to worry about these things is don't break the law.

Bagelthief
04-12-2010, 3:25 PM
From my understanding as long as the warden believes that you are hunting or something similar they can search anything they think maybe hiding evidence.
If you are on private property with a locked gate during season and they hear a gunshot and believe you are hunting they can shoot the lock off your gate and come in.

NOT 100% sure

THATS CRAP RIGHT THERE!

No way anyone except SWAT can shoot the lock off anything just because they "think" you were hunting...

180ls1
04-12-2010, 4:29 PM
may be a little off topic but it is a good video to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

paul0660
04-12-2010, 4:38 PM
How about when you are coming up the boat ramp and the Fish cop wants to check your catch? I have never seen a fisherman in the situation do anything but roll over.

Barbarossa
04-12-2010, 4:48 PM
Warden: "May I take a look around?"
Honest Hunter: "Got a warrant?"
Warden: "Okay then have a nice day..."
Now suspicious looking hunter: (I sure stuck it to the man. Hahaha!)
Warden: (Note to self keep an extra eye on the suspicious guy who had something to hide)

3 months later:
Hunter at day break: "aww crap another Hen"
Warden: (Got you by the short hairs! No break for you!)
------------

Be friendly. Offer him a cup of coffee. If he asks to inspect you freezer be polite. Pleasantly deny and let him know why. "Sir, I have nothing illegal in my freezer, but I don't feel comfortable with you searching it. You may look at anything within plain view. Would you like some eggs?"

Our clubs been getting extra attention because someone went out of their way to be aggressive towards a warden. We are ethical sportsman, but the extra attention isn't worth the ego boost of telling a warden to pound sand and get a warrant.

(By extra I mean being stopped and asked to see your strap, license, etc... Nothing crazy, and well within the realm [I feel] of reasonable contact.)

YMMV...
----------

For the "4th AMENDMENT!" crowd... relax. I'm not saying you should roll over. Just that a lot of wardens are sportsmen themselves, and a little respect can pay dividends.

Cokebottle
04-12-2010, 6:15 PM
How about when you are coming up the boat ramp and the Fish cop wants to check your catch? I have never seen a fisherman in the situation do anything but roll over.
They are within the law in this situation. Same for your boat whether underway or on anchor.

A really scary thing about some of California's new lobster fishing laws is that the law states that the bugs must not be "tailed" until they are being prepared for consumption.
The law has always been that they have to be brought ashore complete so they can be properly measured by DFG.

The new law can be taken two ways... On the negative side (and illegal) it can be taken that they are trying to assert authority to come into your home.
On the positive side, it now appears that it would be legal to "tail" bugs that have been caught BEFORE you come ashore if you are preparing them for consumption.
Though common sense, this would have been illegal last year.

bigboarstopper
04-12-2010, 9:38 PM
I pulled this from dfg's web site in the Q&A section.


Can game wardens enter private property to see if someone is fishing?

Question: If I own 1,000 acres and there is a pond in the middle, can game wardens drive across my land on private roads just to see if someone is fishing? (Dan P.)

Answer: Wardens can enter if they believe hunting or fishing is occurring. According to Northern California Chief Mike Carion, if there is a violation in progress, they can drive in even if that means cutting a lock due to exigent circumstances. However, for routine checks, if it is locked up, they enter on foot. If the road is open, they can drive in.

Heres another post from the Q&A section

Since running an answer to a question posed recently regarding game wardens’ rights for search and seizure of hunters, we received requests for clarification.

Our game wardens do not have any additional authority to search someone when making regular law enforcement contacts. Absent valid officer safety concerns, there is no search without consent. That being said, any time an officer asks for a consent search, there is a concern for safety or suspicion of a violation or hiding of evidence, etc. The “red flag” reference in the answer was relative to this situation – an increase in an officer’s awareness and alertness would be a normal response to a refusal of such a request.

In the hunting and fishing context, the search authority is much broader. Hunting and fishing are privileges, not rights. The fish and wildlife belong to the people of the state and not to any individual. Many states, including California, recognize this and have provided a much broader search authority to game wardens when interacting with those who are engaged in hunting and fishing activities.

Searches of containers, equipment and even businesses may be conducted without a search warrant as long as the person involved was clearly associated with hunting or fishing and the search is for equipment used for the take or for fish and wildlife. This search authority is unique and does not apply to any other law enforcement officer in the state.

# # #


Now you know why people like myself hate wardens. Uneducated, untrustworthy and over powered.

HokeySon
04-12-2010, 11:19 PM
I pulled this from dfg's web site in the Q&A section.


Can game wardens enter private property to see if someone is fishing?

Question: If I own 1,000 acres and there is a pond in the middle, can game wardens drive across my land on private roads just to see if someone is fishing? (Dan P.)

Answer: Wardens can enter if they believe hunting or fishing is occurring. According to Northern California Chief Mike Carion, if there is a violation in progress, they can drive in even if that means cutting a lock due to exigent circumstances. However, for routine checks, if it is locked up, they enter on foot. If the road is open, they can drive in.

Heres another post from the Q&A section

Since running an answer to a question posed recently regarding game wardens’ rights for search and seizure of hunters, we received requests for clarification.

Our game wardens do not have any additional authority to search someone when making regular law enforcement contacts. Absent valid officer safety concerns, there is no search without consent. That being said, any time an officer asks for a consent search, there is a concern for safety or suspicion of a violation or hiding of evidence, etc. The “red flag” reference in the answer was relative to this situation – an increase in an officer’s awareness and alertness would be a normal response to a refusal of such a request.

In the hunting and fishing context, the search authority is much broader. Hunting and fishing are privileges, not rights. The fish and wildlife belong to the people of the state and not to any individual. Many states, including California, recognize this and have provided a much broader search authority to game wardens when interacting with those who are engaged in hunting and fishing activities.

Searches of containers, equipment and even businesses may be conducted without a search warrant as long as the person involved was clearly associated with hunting or fishing and the search is for equipment used for the take or for fish and wildlife. This search authority is unique and does not apply to any other law enforcement officer in the state.

# # #


Now you know why people like myself hate wardens. Uneducated, untrustworthy and over powered.

two things:
1) what would expect to find on the DFG website. "you don't have to let us in if you do not want" The writing is phrased to suggest they can come in anytime they want -- until it gets to the standard. exigent circumstances, that's the universal exception to the need for a warrant. A GW cutting a lock on a hunch is a case I would love.

2) Obviously, this post was not reviewed by counsel or they would not have admitted that refusal to consent to a search "heightens" suspicious. While that is no doubt true on every human level, that whole 5th amendment thing, and quite a few cases -- say refusal to consent or lack of cooperation cannot be figured into to probable cause. My point is only that I am surprised to see this statement in black and white.

HokeySon
04-12-2010, 11:24 PM
They are within the law in this situation. Same for your boat whether underway or on anchor.

A really scary thing about some of California's new lobster fishing laws is that the law states that the bugs must not be "tailed" until they are being prepared for consumption.
The law has always been that they have to be brought ashore complete so they can be properly measured by DFG.

The new law can be taken two ways... On the negative side (and illegal) it can be taken that they are trying to assert authority to come into your home.
On the positive side, it now appears that it would be legal to "tail" bugs that have been caught BEFORE you come ashore if you are preparing them for consumption.
Though common sense, this would have been illegal last year.

I do not doubt that you are right on this (the fish cops ability to search). I just wonder where the authority comes from. Natural resources code? DFG regs? any idea? I would actually like to look into this for my own sake.

randy
04-13-2010, 2:09 AM
Its not California Game Wardens, its game wardens.

E Pluribus Unum
04-13-2010, 2:25 AM
Game Wardens are no more exempt from the constitution than other LEOS.

The first thing a warden tries to do is establish you are hunting. He will ask you what you are doing and what he wants to hear is "I am hunting". This gives him the extra rights that other LEOs do not have. Once you admit to hunting, or he establishes with probable cause that you are hunting with blood trails, feathers, et cetera, he has the right to search you for game. As soon as you admit to hunting, or it is established through PC that you are hunting, the possession of lead ammo, and all the other hunting laws become arrestable and prosecutable.

Game wardens have no more right to enter private property than other leos. They break the law ALL of the time.

I personally witnessed a game warden trespass to check hunting licenses. Under California law, for most circumstances it is only trespassing if they enter a fenced area marked no trespassing, or they refuse to leave upon request. One of the exceptions is a planted field. If you enter a planted field without permission, it is automatically trespassing.

One year we did a pheasant hunt on a private alfalfa field. At the time the game warden showed up, everyone had just gotten there and they had their guns but no one had fired a shot. The game warden entered the property to check for licenses. As soon as he did, he committed a misdemeanor. He had no probable cause that hunting was occuring. 10 guys with shotguns in a field is not PC for hunting. He would have had to watch from the road until one of us took a bird.

Now, if push came to shove and we tried to press the issue, don't you think that game warden would have put in his report that he witnessed someone discharging a firearm? You will learn very quickly that what an officer actually does or thinks is not what is important; its what he can articulate in his report. Basically, if he writes it, and you cannot prove him wrong, its the fact. That is the extreme power that any law enforcement officer has.

ScottB
04-13-2010, 8:00 AM
I don't believe that discharging a firearm is necessary to establish that someone is hunting. I have personally witnessed tickets being issued for hunting the evening before the duck opener where two guys were in a blind, with dogs, guns loaded, dekes out. It was a sea blind and I understand their intent was to spend the night in it so no one else would beat them to it the next morning. FWS wardens didn't buy it, which worked out well for us because we ended up getting the by then empty blind the next morning.

The other thing in the example you cited is that if you were hunting planted birds on a private field, I question wether that could be construed as "hunting" under the F&G code at all. I train dogs and we plant and shoot birds all year long and its legal. Clubs hold shoots into April and start in about September. Pheasant season is only about 6 weeks beginning in mid-November.

theseacow
04-13-2010, 8:11 AM
3 weeks ago, my buddy and i drove through a locked gate where we had permission to be and locked the gate behind us. We were in plain clothes and did not have any sort of hunting devices on us that were visible (guns/camo/hunting equip were in the truck). We drove about 150 yards from the gate around a corner and stopped to look at fresh rooting. We were looking at the rooting trying to establish track sizes for about 5 minutes when a game warden walked up on us. He must have observed us going through the gate from a lower road. He drove to the gate and parked, then hopped over it. Anyways, there was no sign of us hunting, and he did go past a locked gate with a no-trespassing sign on it. He asked what we were doing, and since it was obvious, we said "looking at this pig rooting". Long story short, he was pretty nice about it, but he was looking to find something wrong with what we did. 10 minutes later, he left without us being cited.

taperxz
04-13-2010, 8:13 AM
I don't believe that discharging a firearm is necessary to establish that someone is hunting. I have personally witnessed tickets being issued for hunting the evening before the duck opener where two guys were in a blind, with dogs, guns loaded, dekes out. It was a sea blind and I understand their intent was to spend the night in it so no one else would beat them to it the next morning. FWS wardens didn't buy it, which worked out well for us because we ended up getting the by then empty blind the next morning.

The other thing in the example you cited is that if you were hunting planted birds on a private field, I question wether that could be construed as "hunting" under the F&G code at all. I train dogs and we plant and shoot birds all year long and its legal. Clubs hold shoots into April and start in about September. Pheasant season is only about 6 weeks beginning in mid-November.

You wonder if that is hunting at all??? You need to have a license and an upland game stamp in order to shoot on the chicken farms. The owner of the club must check your license and stamp before you are allowed in the field. The club owner must have a permit from DF&G to run this club. After processing birds all birds must have a tag affixed to there leg to show what club they came from. WELL REGULATED!!

taperxz
04-13-2010, 8:29 AM
3 weeks ago, my buddy and i drove through a locked gate where we had permission to be and locked the gate behind us. We were in plain clothes and did not have any sort of hunting devices on us that were visible (guns/camo/hunting equip were in the truck). We drove about 150 yards from the gate around a corner and stopped to look at fresh rooting. We were looking at the rooting trying to establish track sizes for about 5 minutes when a game warden walked up on us. He must have observed us going through the gate from a lower road. He drove to the gate and parked, then hopped over it. Anyways, there was no sign of us hunting, and he did go past a locked gate with a no-trespassing sign on it. He asked what we were doing, and since it was obvious, we said "looking at this pig rooting". Long story short, he was pretty nice about it, but he was looking to find something wrong with what we did. 10 minutes later, he left without us being cited.

I own land and if that happened to me i would tell him politely it was none of his business! My next question would be " what do you want?" "can i help you?" "are you lost?" I know if its not your land and you are unsure of their powers you back off of them. I for one will stick up for myself because when i do hunt, I dont break the law!! If i forget something or they get me for a minor infraction, then so be it.

If you tell them you are hunting or fishing they can then ask for a license! Just like when you are driving. When i cruise my atv to a remote lake behind my place, i carry a rifle. If he were to approach me and ask for a license and i said i didnt have one whats he going to do? I have a right to carry that rifle whether i am hunting or not. As and LE all he can do is check to make sure there is not one in the chamber as i am driving the ATV. I don't care if it is in the middle of deer season!! If i do have my license with me, and it is deer season and he ask's me for a license and tag and i dont produce a tag, he still have nothing on me! I either dont hunt deer, i'm after yotes, or as usually the case i am all tagged out.

Now with my big fat mouth i told him i am all tagged out and have killed either one or two bucks!! He then has the right to inquire about those bucks. Now i dont have to tell him where those bucks are. You do have to keep the tag on the antlers for at least 30 days after the closure of the season though whether it be at the butchers or at you residence.

echo1
04-13-2010, 8:23 PM
GWs & LOEs, as I've told my sons often, can do what ever they want. Will flagrant abuse of their authority hold water in court, probably not. But the point is, they tied up your time, gear, maybe money, just not to pursue the bogus charge. All the while they are on the clock.

ChaparralCommando
04-13-2010, 10:49 PM
I don't believe that discharging a firearm is necessary to establish that someone is hunting. I have personally witnessed tickets being issued for hunting the evening before the duck opener where two guys were in a blind, with dogs, guns loaded, dekes out. It was a sea blind and I understand their intent was to spend the night in it so no one else would beat them to it the next morning. FWS wardens didn't buy it, which worked out well for us because we ended up getting the by then empty blind the next morning.

The other thing in the example you cited is that if you were hunting planted birds on a private field, I question wether that could be construed as "hunting" under the F&G code at all. I train dogs and we plant and shoot birds all year long and its legal. Clubs hold shoots into April and start in about September. Pheasant season is only about 6 weeks beginning in mid-November.

Hmm, issuing citations without any shooting or killing taking place is a new one from what I've read. I read 2 of career California and Federal game warden Terry Grosz's memoirs, and he always waited until shooting or killing was taking place before ticketing.

As far as the planted birds, I am aware DFG doesn't like that because they don't get license fees that way. Recently some reservoirs in San Diego county were petitioning DFG to not require licenses since all the fish were stocked. At that point the fish or birds become livestock, not wildlife. Livestock do not belong to everybody, wildlife does.

Fireguy
04-14-2010, 12:35 AM
DFG violations are either a misdemeanors or a felonies, there are no infractions in the DFG codes. If you are issued a citation from DFG you have to appear in court 3 separate times. At the perlim hearing you will have to post a fine and court cost which can be 3 to 4 times the fine. Then there are lawyer fees.
The big hassel is the travel time to the county courthouse. Let's say you hunt in Lassen County and live in Alameda County that's 4 or 5 hour trip each way. So the moral of the story is don't bend the rules because it is going to cost Big Bucks. If you lose you have a criminal record and could lose you hunting rights and lose the right to own firearms,

E Pluribus Unum
04-14-2010, 3:43 AM
DFG violations are either a misdemeanors or a felonies, there are no infractions in the DFG codes. If you are issued a citation from DFG you have to appear in court 3 separate times. At the perlim hearing you will have to post a fine and court cost which can be 3 to 4 times the fine. Then there are lawyer fees.
The big hassel is the travel time to the county courthouse. Let's say you hunt in Lassen County and live in Alameda County that's 4 or 5 hour trip each way. So the moral of the story is don't bend the rules because it is going to cost Big Bucks. If you lose you have a criminal record and could lose you hunting rights and lose the right to own firearms,

You forget that as such.... one that cannot afford an attorney is guaranteed a public defender. :)

If speeding tickets were misdemeanors, 60 percent of them would never go to trial.

bigboarstopper
04-14-2010, 4:26 PM
Sad to admit but Ive been cited a total of 15 times over the 20 years ive been hunting and depredating. Not that ive recieved 15 citations on 15 different occasions but ive recieved numerous violations on a few occurances.

In all those citations over all those years I was only convicted of hunting with an expired licence back in 98'. I believe the thought process by wardens is to write as much citations as they can possibly can. Thus the person being cited will plea bargan rather than to fight the excessive charges. Wardens know that they NEED to write enough charges to offset the cost of an attorney. If the cost of an attorney is roughly the same or more as the fines then the person charged will usually plead guilty just to go the most financially feasable way.

I have fought everything I knew was bogus. All of those 14 other citations were dropped either by DFG or the DA. \

My last encounter with the warden 3 years ago, I ended up with 5 charges and all my hunting equipment confiscated. A year later I finally got my day in court. The judge looked at the wardens report, the citations I recieved and said he couldnt see a single violation commited by me in the report. DISMISSED!

It took another 3 months to get my belongings back to me that were confiscated. The warden that cited me had transfered to another region and TOOK the confiscated items with him. He didnt have them stored in an evidence locker at the dfg office where the offence occured. Nither did he store them in the evidence locker of the place where he transfered. He had taken the items he took from me and kept them at his HOUSE in northern California where he had moved to!!! On top of that he was out on a work related injury and the DFG told me that I wouldnt get the items back unil he returned to duty. Well that didnt work for me. I called the main DFG office in Redding and spoke to the wardens Captain. After 2 weeks he finally called me back and said I could get my items if I wanted to make the 5 hour drive up there. HELL NO! I called the DFG main office in Sacramento and finally talked to one of the big wigs. After 3 months of phone calls The items were delivered and given to me at the local DFG office. One of the items listed on the confiscated items sheet was missing. I was happy I finally got back what I did and decided to cut my losses on the item they had lost.

As for getting a lawyer if you cant afford one is BS. When I was younger I recieved my first violation and asked for a court appointed attorney. I was basically making minimum wage at the time and wasnt even making rent every month. The judge told me that if I had a job then I didnt qualify for a court appointed attorney.

Cokebottle
04-14-2010, 6:08 PM
The big hassel is the travel time to the county courthouse. Let's say you hunt in Lassen County and live in Alameda County that's 4 or 5 hour trip each way. So the moral of the story is don't bend the rules because it is going to cost Big Bucks. If you lose you have a criminal record and could lose you hunting rights and lose the right to own firearms,
Request a change of venue to your county seat.

gdun
04-14-2010, 8:51 PM
I would rather have overly aggressive wardens than none at all

Cokebottle
04-14-2010, 8:53 PM
I would rather have overly aggressive wardens than none at all
And what's wrong with wardens that uphold the law while following it themselves?

Overly aggressive wardens are breaking the law, same as those they arrest.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

bigboarstopper
04-14-2010, 9:41 PM
I would rather have overly aggressive wardens than none at all

you only say that because you havent had an encounter with one like that.

Wardens like that will ruin your entire hunt/fishing day asking questions, searching your vehicle, asking the same questions again, quoting you out of context, asking you catch 22 questions, mislead you in order to say incriminating things and start the process all over again if he hasnt been succesful in getting enough for a violation. Ive been detained by a game warden for 6!, count em 6 hours on a single day!

Dont fool yourself. Wardens go many days or weeks without giving citations. So when they come across somone and they havent had any contacts for a while THEY FISH or HUNT harder than we do to get that ticket so they can show their captain or lutenant that they have been doing something in the last few weeks.

tpuig
04-15-2010, 10:11 AM
This is an interesting thread. My last contact with a warden in the field was years ago, and it was very pleasant. I imagine things may have changed, but this is a disturbing trend. I've never had a bad experience and have a very high regard for these guys. But then again, if they mirror general law enforcement, there are plenty of both types.

I was speaking with a commercial fisherman in the central coast and he complained that there was no enforcement for real violations. His crab pots were getting poached, and when he and others would call in blatant violations no wardens were available. Most attribute it to easier pickings up north. For example, why tromp through the woods or marsh to catch one hunter, when a group of wardens can sit on the end of the only access road and stop every car to check for abalone violations...

ScottB
04-15-2010, 1:51 PM
tpuig,

My experiecnes have always been pleasant as well. I'm sure there are wardens that are having a bad day or maybe just have an attitude for some reason, but over the years I have noticed some guys always seem to have negative encounters and some (like me) never do. I have never been tailed or staked out and if I see a warden, I usually wave and say hello. I always break my shotgun open or sling my rifle before i approach them. If they want to check my license or game, its all in order.

I always look for common denominators and I think a lot of guys set themselves up for a negative encounter with their appearance and/or demeanor and some just have a preference for pushing the envelope with the regs.

tpuig
04-15-2010, 2:16 PM
My behavior matches yours, and they've always been very pleasant. The last check was to see a license and the plug in my shotgun. Otherwise, I never even see them.


tpuig,

My experiecnes have always been pleasant as well. I'm sure there are wardens that are having a bad day or maybe just have an attitude for some reason, but over the years I have noticed some guys always seem to have negative encounters and some (like me) never do. I have never been tailed or staked out and if I see a warden, I usually wave and say hello. I always break my shotgun open or sling my rifle before i approach them. If they want to check my license or game, its all in order.

I always look for common denominators and I think a lot of guys set themselves up for a negative encounter with their appearance and/or demeanor and some just have a preference for pushing the envelope with the regs.

gdun
04-15-2010, 2:42 PM
And what's wrong with wardens that uphold the law while following it themselves?

Overly aggressive wardens are breaking the law, same as those they arrest.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
I never said that it was not wrong, all i said was that i would rather have the wardens that we have than none at all. I know wardens step outside of what is acceptable and legal.



you only say that because you havent had an encounter with one like that..
Your right, i have had at least 5 contacts with wardens, and they have all been nothing but pleasant.

pieeater
04-15-2010, 3:10 PM
Ive never had a problem with them. Usualy if I see a warden I stop him before he stops me. I'll introduce myself with a handshake and a smile ask if he wants to check my license or anything. Then I start pumping them for info. lol

bigboarstopper
04-15-2010, 3:58 PM
Ok then. I will make it much simpler. Who has contact with a monterey or san benito county warden? What was your experience?

The issue with wardens in this area is that they dont want to be here. These two counties are training grounds for new wardens. Not including the marine wardens. Field wardens or Land wardens (whatever you want to call them) come and go as quickly as they arrive im my area. They due their 2 years or whatever in the manditory area that they are assigned to and then they transfer at first chance. We get a new warden constantly. Always fresh from the factory hell bent on getting citations and hell bent on getting a transfer. For what ever reason they always leave. Wether its because they cant afford to live in this area or because they dont get any respect. I dont know. I personally dont know ANYBODY in my area who hunts or fishes on a regular basis thats had regular contacts with wardens and has anything good to say about them. Wether its if they have been contacted by one or have called one themselfs.

But in all fairness its true, I personally have a problem with wardens in my area. Like I said in my previous posts Ive had my share of contacts with them and recieved more citations then most anyone. Try to take a look at my perspective for a moment. Look at the ammount of citations that I have recieved over the years. Look at the ammount of dismissals to convictions. 15 citations and 1 conviction for huting with an expired licence. (which I was guilty of).

In all those years and all those encounters ive done my homework. I know what the laws are and what they have tryed to get away with. Im not made of money. I didnt hire Jonny Cochrane as my lawyer to get away with something. I read the damn laws. If the laws say this and the warden says that im gonna call him on it. Ive had to call em on it 14 times! Ive showed them copies of DFG regulations in the field and have wardens say they dont believe what is written is correct or say they they have never seen the documents im showing them. ITS THEIR OWN INFORMATION!!! I get cited anyhow. I show up to court and get my case dismissed. I have payed a 1000 dollar lawyer retainer on more than one occasion to fight a 700 dollar fine.

I hunt or fish every weekend. Its my passion. You get out in the field as much as I do and you will come across the wardens more than most. Youll see the underbelly after a while.

pieeater
04-15-2010, 4:27 PM
Ok then. I will make it much simpler. Who has contact with a monterey or san benito county warden? What was your experience?

The issue with wardens in this area is that they dont want to be here. These two counties are training grounds for new wardens. Not including the marine wardens. Field wardens or Land wardens (whatever you want to call them) come and go as quickly as they arrive im my area. They due their 2 years or whatever in the manditory area that they are assigned to and then they transfer at first chance. We get a new warden constantly. Always fresh from the factory hell bent on getting citations and hell bent on getting a transfer. For what ever reason they always leave. Wether its because they cant afford to live in this area or because they dont get any respect. I dont know. I personally dont know ANYBODY in my area who hunts or fishes on a regular basis thats had regular contacts with wardens and has anything good to say about them. Wether its if they have been contacted by one or have called one themselfs.

Two San Benito wardens pulled up on me just as i had gotten back to the truck with a pig. I was parked on a main road that had some blm access. pretty short contact from what I remember just checked the license and tag and split.

Of course this was back in 1982 or 83. lol

bigboarstopper
04-15-2010, 4:31 PM
Two San Benito wardens pulled up on me just as i had gotten back to the truck with a pig. I was parked on a main road that had some blm access. pretty short contact from what I remember just checked the license and tag and split.

Of course this was back in 1982 or 83. lol

Its a new world my friend.

pieeater
04-15-2010, 4:50 PM
Its a new world my friend.

Ya know now that I think about it maybe it was SO and not DFG. And I said they checked my license and tag but it must have just been my license cause there was no tag back then. lol Damn it sucks getting old.

spectr17
04-16-2010, 12:22 AM
Most of the wardens I've encountered in the field have been professional with maybe 3 first class turds that needed some people skills training. Like any career field you get the occasional klinker with the good. You hunt long enough you'll get to meet a couple.

BBS, I bumped into now retired Warden Foster up in Monterey a lot when hunting FHL and nearby. He was okay, never had any trouble really when stopped by him. The first time I met him I was filming deer off of Jolon Rd and he had just busted some guys for poaching near where I was parked. When he drove by I had my long lens up and he did a double take LOL. He crept up on my door kinda nervous but once he saw my camera gear he relaxed.

I know what you mean about the training area for wardens, in MO where I hunt there is a county where the agents train and we just stay away from there. You're guilty until you prove your innocent around that area, not worth the hassle and lost time from hunting.

SLYoteBoy
04-16-2010, 1:07 AM
I have to agree , Warden Foster was always a good guy. Its to bad he is retired now. Tons of poacher's around Jolon Rd , Lockwood area. Not much DFG presence since hes retired.

Rickertb
01-14-2011, 2:39 PM
Just read the F&G Code

1006. The department may inspect the following:
(a) All boats, markets, stores and other buildings, except dwellings, and all receptacles, except the clothing actually worn by a person at the time of inspection, where birds, mammals, fish, reptiles, or amphibia may be stored, placed, or held for sale or storage.
(b) All boxes and packages containing birds, mammals, fish, reptiles, or amphibia which are held for transportation by any common carrier.

Dwelling includes RVs unless there is an obvious violation visible from the outside.

bigboarstopper
01-14-2011, 3:32 PM
Funny how this topic was started before the "wild Justice" show began. Curoius how some feel now?

Also note the post above. There is no specification in the search clause that referes to motor vehicles. The toolbox of your truck, trunk or back seat is clearly not mentioned or implyed. Your truck is not a "receptical". Case law prooves that a warden cannot search your vehicle. http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=in%20caco%2020100105018.xml&docbase=cslwar3-2007-curr Read this and see

devilinblack
01-14-2011, 6:41 PM
Watching "Wild Justice" now and it makes them all look like first class D-Bags. It also makes all hunters and gun owners look like scofflaws.

On the other hand I was flagged down by one on my way home from deer hunting (X-10) last fall. Checked my license and tag, asked where the guns were (but didn't ask to see them), etc. Chatted about the weather (hot) and lack of success and I went on my way. Hopefully that's how most of them are.

tony270
01-15-2011, 4:56 AM
Game Wardens are no more exempt from the constitution than other LEOS.

The first thing a warden tries to do is establish you are hunting. He will ask you what you are doing and what he wants to hear is "I am hunting". This gives him the extra rights that other LEOs do not have. Once you admit to hunting, or he establishes with probable cause that you are hunting with blood trails, feathers, et cetera, he has the right to search you for game. As soon as you admit to hunting, or it is established through PC that you are hunting, the possession of lead ammo, and all the other hunting laws become arrestable and prosecutable.

Game wardens have no more right to enter private property than other leos. They break the law ALL of the time.

I personally witnessed a game warden trespass to check hunting licenses. Under California law, for most circumstances it is only trespassing if they enter a fenced area marked no trespassing, or they refuse to leave upon request. One of the exceptions is a planted field. If you enter a planted field without permission, it is automatically trespassing.

One year we did a pheasant hunt on a private alfalfa field. At the time the game warden showed up, everyone had just gotten there and they had their guns but no one had fired a shot. The game warden entered the property to check for licenses. As soon as he did, he committed a misdemeanor. He had no probable cause that hunting was occuring. 10 guys with shotguns in a field is not PC for hunting. He would have had to watch from the road until one of us took a bird.

Now, if push came to shove and we tried to press the issue, don't you think that game warden would have put in his report that he witnessed someone discharging a firearm? You will learn very quickly that what an officer actually does or thinks is not what is important; its what he can articulate in his report. Basically, if he writes it, and you cannot prove him wrong, its the fact. That is the extreme power that any law enforcement officer has.

For the wealthy who have vast recourses that may work.

But for Joe Sixpack I don’t think that’s entirely correct. As long as the GW has reasonable suspicion to suspect that someone is hunting or fishing on the property he wouldn’t be trespassing when he conducted a routine check.

Also, if someone is on posted property they don’t become trespassers until the property owner or his agent asks the person to leave. If they don’t leave then it becomes a trespassing violation. The law clearly implies that the land has to be posted 1 sign per 1/3 mile and that the person has to be told leave.

On another note, I think some states require that private land owners are required to allow access to their land for hunting and fishing, they can’t lock out the public.

tony270
01-15-2011, 5:44 AM
One time I was approached by a guy who dressed like a hiker in a polo shirt and short kaki pants. I was fishing in an open area, I noticed him from far off. As he got about 20 yards from me he reached behind his back and pulled out a baseball cap with the CDFG emblem on it, and put it on. He came up and checked me, when he left I saw that he had his pistol in a holster in the small of his back.

I’ve had numerous contacts CDFG GW’s, and none of them have been pleasant. They’ve always treated me suspect as they do my friend’s, that’s their job. We’re always respectful (that a given), kind, and pleasant when in contact with them. The reason my experience may be different than others is that I have darker skin (that’s not a race card’ that’s a fact).

These guys are sneaky, make no mistake about it. Their job is to hunt hunters and fisherman so that they can catch violators. Then they issue citations and or take you to jail. You could even be shot, or even killed in certain circumstances. Always be professional, courteous and respectful to them. Comply with their request if possible and don’t engage in small talk, make the contact short and quick, than you’ll have more time to hunt or fish.

tankerman
01-15-2011, 7:11 AM
I've been hunting and fishing my entire life and have had plenty of contact with Game Wardens, never been harassed or treated bad.

yoteassasin
01-15-2011, 7:45 AM
i have had some ok contacts with wardens but they are farr overshadowed by the bad I had a fedral fishcop blow through my deeks on opening morning @ don edwards Cpt morgan on the bow rips his jacket back to expose badge and wepon and starts issuing citations well he was lost and thought we were in a closed zone he had a rokie fed and CA fish cop with him i chalenged and he spent an hour on the phone trying to figure where he was He didnt even have a map. in the end no cites but a miserable opening morning.
Now i hunt napa-sonoma marsh and talked to the managing bio of the unit so i know all the little quirks in what is legal and what is not.
When you are in the right DO NOT TAKE their bull ***** harrasment if all else fails ask them if the have heard of your cousin , Claude Dallas:cuss:
BTW im pretty sure over 80% of poaching in CA comes out of immigrant/ non-english speaking comunities and why they dont have laotian/hmong wardens is beyond me

taperxz
01-15-2011, 7:58 AM
For the wealthy who have vast recourses that may work.

But for Joe Sixpack I don’t think that’s entirely correct. As long as the GW has reasonable suspicion to suspect that someone is hunting or fishing on the property he wouldn’t be trespassing when he conducted a routine check.

Also, if someone is on posted property they don’t become trespassers until the property owner or his agent asks the person to leave. If they don’t leave then it becomes a trespassing violation. The law clearly implies that the land has to be posted 1 sign per 1/3 mile and that the person has to be told leave.

On another note, I think some states require that private land owners are required to allow access to their land for hunting and fishing, they can’t lock out the public.

Right, and in some states you can go and use peoples swimming pools because the state says you can. I guess in Ca if you have a med. pot card you can just grow on anyones land also? I'd like to see some proof of this one!!

People that allow the public to hunt their land usually have entered into an agreement with the state or fed. government. This kind of agreement is to keep the land natural ect. Lots of duck properties get subsidies to do this. But, they don,t have to let anyone in. Ca just recently submitted a program to allow public hunting on private land through fish and game but i don't know what the payoff to the land owner is.

tony270
01-15-2011, 8:33 AM
Right, and in some states you can go and use peoples swimming pools because the state says you can. I guess in Ca if you have a med. pot card you can just grow on anyones land also? I'd like to see some proof of this one!!

People that allow the public to hunt their land usually have entered into an agreement with the state or fed. government. This kind of agreement is to keep the land natural ect. Lots of duck properties get subsidies to do this. But, they don,t have to let anyone in. Ca just recently submitted a program to allow public hunting on private land through fish and game but i don't know what the payoff to the land owner is.

I read that on trapper man dot com in a thread that the trappers were stating exactly what I wrote. I think the state was Washington, I never know that either. They called it an open state of something like that, and the reasoning behind it was that property owners only own the land and have know right to isolate the animals and fish. But they did mention some distance from there homes and areas of activity like cultivated fields and pastered animals. Someone mentioned that they found locked gates, and that they had to go to the farmers home to get him to open them.

BC9696
01-15-2011, 8:39 AM
Hahahahahaha!!!! I have to laugh...as if Game Wardens are going door to door asking to look in freezers! Gimme a break. Unless they have a warrant or probable cause, no Warden is going to make this request. The guys who react strongly in this thread must have something to hide. I know I play by the rules and have no problem opening up my ice boxes to LEO providing they have a warrant or PC (which they won't because I play by the rules). They knock on doors when the suspect has been observed engaging in suspicious activity and in most cases, has been under survilellance for awhile. I would not allow a search w/o a warrant simply because i see no reason to surrender any of my rights but I certainly would not react as emotionally as some here because i have nothing to hide. I too would prefer strict enforcement if only to scare the bejesus out of the other bad guys who poach. JMO

rooster85
01-15-2011, 10:10 AM
It boils down to the 4th amendment. LEO knocks on door and says hed like to check your freezer, you tell him to leave your property. He cant come in without a warrant OR consent. "may i come in" NO, please leave. Problem solved.

Spyder
01-15-2011, 11:14 AM
if all else fails ask them if the have heard of your cousin , Claude Dallas:cuss:


Brilliant. Threaten a cop with murder. Sounds like a smart thing to do.