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evolution1974
04-07-2010, 10:48 AM
I’m in the middle of making a deal to purchase two bolt action long guns that were manufactured in 1951 and 1956 from a private seller. Both of us are “vaguely aware” that these long guns qualify as C&R because of their age. The seller and I do not have a C&R license. The seller is open to a “Cash and Carry” sale if I can provide references to proper laws and regulations; otherwise we will go to an FFL for the transfer. Below is what I have found. Please let me know if I am missing anything or if you have something to add.

Is there anything else that is specific to private party buying/selling a C&R long gun?

Is there a form that I can give him along with a copy of my California Drivers License (ie: I am over 18 years of age, California resident and am legally able to own firearms.)?

I did try the search function but came up with a bunch of hits that were not necessarily on point. Research lead me to the FAQ of the California Office of the Attorney General website.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#9

14 Want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?
Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement…….
(PC section 12072(d))

California Penal Code section 12070 (b)(17) states

(17) The delivery of an unloaded firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, by a person licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto with a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 12071 to a dealer.


California Penal Code section 12078 regarding waiting period states

(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

I printed out the definition of C&R as stated in 27CFR section 478.11 (Part 178.11 was redesignated to Section 478.11 in 27CFR).

Curios or relics. Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;…………………..

Mssr. Eleganté
04-07-2010, 10:53 AM
You have it all right there. The definition of C&R, the mention of the exemption on CalDOJ's web site FAQ, and the actual text of the exemption in the California penal code. There is nothing else to add except to clarify that both parties need to be California residents.

paul0660
04-07-2010, 10:57 AM
12078 is what you hang your hat on.

PutTogether
04-07-2010, 11:12 AM
You have all the proof I think it is possible for you to have.

Guns are over fifty years old, check.

Guns aren't handguns, check.

Both CA residents?

Infrequent Transfer? (ie, not engaging in an ongoing business) Check.

Zomgie
04-07-2010, 11:23 AM
I did try the search function but came up with a bunch of hits that were not necessarily on point. Research lead me to the FAQ of the California Office of the Attorney General website.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#9

14 Want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?
Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement…….
(PC section 12072(d))

California Penal Code section 12070 (b)(17) states

(17) The delivery of an unloaded firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, by a person licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto with a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 12071 to a dealer.


California Penal Code section 12078 regarding waiting period states

(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

I printed out the definition of C&R as stated in 27CFR section 478.11 (Part 178.11 was redesignated to Section 478.11 in 27CFR).

Curios or relics. Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;…………………..

I highlighted the areas you care about. You got everything you need right there.

GrizzlyGuy
04-07-2010, 7:27 PM
You have it, there is similar info in the wiki here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#How_do_I_buy_a_C.26R_long_gun_.28rifle_or_shot gun.29.3F) and here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Buying_f rom_a_Private_Party_WITHOUT_a_Dealer).

evolution1974
04-08-2010, 7:27 AM
Thanks for the comments and clarification everyone.