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View Full Version : Anyone Keep Their Mosin Loaded for HD? Condition?


MoBait
04-05-2010, 4:55 PM
I keep my Mosin next to my bed with bayonet attached with 4 in the mag, one chambered, decocked. Obviously it is not the weapon I pick up during an emergency but I like to have it ready in case the home invaders come in with level III armor. By the way, I have it loaded with 180 gr. lead core FMJ.

CEDaytonaRydr
04-05-2010, 5:02 PM
Not only would you kill an intruder, but you'd also get your neighbor... :eek:

...and your neighbor's neighbor. :o

littlejake
04-05-2010, 5:03 PM
I keep my Mosin next to my bed with bayonet attached with 4 in the mag, one chambered, decocked. Obviously it is not the weapon I pick up during an emergency but I like to have it ready in case the home invaders come in with level III armor. By the way, I have it loaded with 180 gr. lead core FMJ.

A little "hot" for urban Home Defense. If it's all you've got, then use it.

Keep in mind most high power rifles will carry through many walls and your neighbor's homes.

I like a revolver or a shotgun with bird shot. But that's my opinion -- and you know what they say about opinions...

Jake

Lucky Scott
04-05-2010, 5:05 PM
Really, a Mosin?

I love my Mosins and they are my favorite gun to shoot. But for HD its shotguns and handguns for me. I just dont think 5 rounds are enough.

Fate
04-05-2010, 5:08 PM
Decocked? Good way to have a round go thru your floor/wall/family/neighbor. Why aren't you using the SAFETY?

Putting a firing pin onto the primer of a 7.62x54r cartridge is beyond foolish.

Either use the safety (there's a technique to using it that is super easy) or have NO round chambered.

Dr Rockso
04-05-2010, 5:09 PM
Decocking a Mosin on a loaded chamber sounds like a good way to have a ND. Can you really retract the cocking piece that much faster than you can work the bolt?

rromeo
04-05-2010, 5:11 PM
A 91/30 doesn't need to be loaded for HD use. Just beat the guy with it.

ae13291
04-05-2010, 5:15 PM
wow a Mosin? are you trying to snipe somebody in your house?

Maltese Falcon
04-05-2010, 5:32 PM
My boss has a private ranch, where he and some buddies go shooting. One of them has a Mosin...It will penetrate 1/2" steel plate at 100 yards.

I wouldn't want to be your neighbor...

.

MoBait
04-05-2010, 5:42 PM
I think some of you may have missed the part where I stated that it is not my go to gun. The Mosin is #5 on the list, after the .357, .45, 10/22, and 10" Forschner. I am aware of penetration issues, my backyard faces a canyon and the nearest human dwelling is over 700 yards away and at a higher elevation than I. I would not fire it in any direction other than towards the canyon. And as for having a round chambered, I do not see a problem with that, I have tried to cook off a round by decocking (at the range) without any luck. When I decock at home, I hold the bolt handle and ease it down (similar to the hammer on a revolver). IMO it is stupid to have unloaded guns in the home, if there aren't any very young children or psychologically imbalanced people. Of course you would want the loaded guns strategically hidden in your home.

C.W.M.V.
04-05-2010, 5:52 PM
I personally don't keep a round in the chamber EVER except for those paid vacations to the sandbox. HD weapon stays in amber status (Mossy 500 w/ birdshot) and all others are unloaded until actually ready to go hot.

Jaiofspam
04-05-2010, 5:58 PM
there is no way you can decock a mosin... safely that is
the russians didnt design them that way :D hell, they didnt even design the safety to actually be used LOL

back on topic... not for HD but more like zombie apocalypse maybe :)

AngryPossum
04-05-2010, 6:01 PM
I think some of you may have missed the part where I stated that it is not my go to gun. The Mosin is #5 on the list, after the .357, .45, 10/22, and 10" Forschner. I am aware of penetration issues, my backyard faces a canyon and the nearest human dwelling is over 700 yards away and at a higher elevation than I. I would not fire it in any direction other than towards the canyon. And as for having a round chambered, I do not see a problem with that, I have tried to cook off a round by decocking (at the range) without any luck. When I decock at home, I hold the bolt handle and ease it down (similar to the hammer on a revolver). IMO it is stupid to have unloaded guns in the home, if there aren't any very young children or psychologically imbalanced people. Of course you would want the loaded guns strategically hidden in your home.

So if someone breaks into the front of the home... you just politely ask them to move towards the back in a position where you can shoot them towards the canyon? Where is the 10/22 strategically posted in the home?...lol.

Really though....Get a shotgun with some bird-shot. Plenty enough to take out any intruder without hurting anyone else...

MoBait
04-05-2010, 6:01 PM
there is no way you can decock a mosin... safely that is
the russians didnt design them that way :D hell, they didnt even design the safety to actually be used LOL

back on topic... not for HD but more like zombie apocalypse maybe :)

I will reconsider keeping a round chambered.

As for the zombies, will they call ahead so I can clean up the place or do you think they'll just show up? lol

7.62x54R
04-05-2010, 6:06 PM
Nope It would be easier with a Mauser as they have an actual safety. I dont keep any of my rifles loaded. Handgun mags are loaded with hollow points for home defense. You could use a M44 to impale a thug or beat him with it.

MoBait
04-05-2010, 6:11 PM
So if someone breaks into the front of the home... you just politely ask them to move towards the back in a position where you can shoot them towards the canyon? Where is the 10/22 strategically posted in the home?...lol.

Really though....Get a shotgun with some bird-shot. Plenty enough to take out any intruder without hurting anyone else...

I politely nudge them with a cylinder of .357, if that doesn't motivate them, I will offer them 2070 grains of .45 ACP. By then I'm sure there would be no need for the 10/22, Forschner, or Mosin.


I thought birdshot doesn't penetrate enough to destroy the heart or CNS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Toast
04-05-2010, 6:25 PM
I wouldn't trust my life to birdshot...

btw (3/4 way down the page)
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

Attiic
04-05-2010, 6:26 PM
I find the abundance of birdshot in this thread disturbing.

Jaiofspam
04-05-2010, 6:35 PM
oh no here we go with the whole birdshot thing again :whistling:
there are plenty of threads discussing birdshot for HD... very few about 7.62x54r

back on topic :D

IronCobra
04-05-2010, 6:48 PM
For HD i like Centurion Buck and ball, winchester military grade buck

also got 2 less lethal rounds in the saddle (rubber slug)

rromeo
04-05-2010, 6:58 PM
Buck & Ball works in a Mosin?

Brianguy
04-05-2010, 7:02 PM
I just use the bayonet on intruders ;)

Barabas
04-05-2010, 7:11 PM
I use the bayonet that is apparently permanently attached to one of my 91/30s on my ceiling every time I try to move it out of the corner I keep it in.

It is never loaded while in the house, it's dangerous enough on its own.

JAGACIDA
04-05-2010, 7:15 PM
Rom to room slicin' the pie with a Mosin, your house must be a mess. paint scrapes, torn drapes, broken lamps. CSI is looking for the projectile in the next county.

SVPRApps
04-05-2010, 7:16 PM
i've done it before but mosins are way too powerful, it'll hit the bad guy in your home and hit the guy going out for a jog 3 counties over:D


umm u can just beat someone with the mosin no need to shoot

Lucky Scott
04-05-2010, 7:41 PM
A mosin is a spear that can shoot bullets.

Navyguy0023
04-05-2010, 8:22 PM
Rom to room slicin' the pie with a Mosin, your house must be a mess. paint scrapes, torn drapes, broken lamps. CSI is looking for the projectile in the next county.

LOL, this one formed a few tears it was so funny. I can just see someone clearing a house with a 91/30 with bayo getting hooked on the drapes.

Bird of Fire
04-05-2010, 8:54 PM
I can see the television broadcast now on the 8 o clock news.

Tricia Takanawa: A home invasion gone wrong in Point Loma tonight, as two armed men attempted to break into the home of what police describe as "a crazed russian guy" hopped up on way too much mountain dew.

At approximately 9:30PM these two individuals armed with baseball bats and an airsoft pellet gun tried taking the television out the front door of the crazed russian homeowner. From what neighbors tell us, he was armed with some sort of a rifle that appeared as though it was roughly 5 1/2 feet in length. One of the individuals pulled his airsoft pistol out of his pants, and the russian guy in fear for his life shot at the man. The second attacker with the baseball bat, defecated himself, turned and ran. He is currently in the intensive care unit at mercy hospital, not from any gun shot wounds, but 3rd degree burns covering 35% of his upper body from the muzzle blast, and a ruptured colon from what doctors describe as the most extreme bowel movement they've ever seen in medical history.

Both men are being charged with armed robbery, the russian guy is at home and not taking any questions not because he doesn't want to speak to the media, but because he cannot hear a damn thing we say.

The round fired from the rifle was last seen headed towards Kentucky, pissed off as all get out, and not slowing down anytime soon.

Onto the weather with Ollie Williams. Ollie?

IT'S GUNNA RAIN!!!!

[/broadcast]

MoBait
04-05-2010, 8:57 PM
Bird, that was hilarious.

Bird of Fire
04-05-2010, 9:01 PM
I do what I can to entertain the masses.

Rem1492
04-05-2010, 9:04 PM
I would NEVER keep a mosin chambered. Lots of russian deaths from accidental mosin and ppsh discharges.


Besides, the mosin is a long range weapon, without ammo, its a medium range weapon :)
Id go no ammo, and bayonet fixed, that should keep the robbers 30ft away.

JaMail
04-05-2010, 9:08 PM
I can see the television broadcast now on the 8 o clock news.

Tricia Takanawa: A home invasion gone wrong in Point Loma tonight, as two armed men attempted to break into the home of what police describe as "a crazed russian guy" hopped up on way too much mountain dew.

At approximately 9:30PM these two individuals armed with baseball bats and an airsoft pellet gun tried taking the television out the front door of the crazed russian homeowner. From what neighbors tell us, he was armed with some sort of a rifle that appeared as though it was roughly 5 1/2 feet in length. One of the individuals pulled his airsoft pistol out of his pants, and the russian guy in fear for his life shot at the man. The second attacker with the baseball bat, defecated himself, turned and ran. He is currently in the intensive care unit at mercy hospital, not from any gun shot wounds, but 3rd degree burns covering 35% of his upper body from the muzzle blast, and a ruptured colon from what doctors describe as the most extreme bowel movement they've ever seen in medical history.

Both men are being charged with armed robbery, the russian guy is at home and not taking any questions not because he doesn't want to speak to the media, but because he cannot hear a damn thing we say.

The round fired from the rifle was last seen headed towards Kentucky, pissed off as all get out, and not slowing down anytime soon.

Onto the weather with Ollie Williams. Ollie?

IT'S GUNNA RAIN!!!!

[/broadcast]


omg, i just read this and i automaticlly used the nasal voice she has.. i started laughing

10ga-killa
04-05-2010, 9:15 PM
This thread made me....

CDFingers
04-06-2010, 4:20 AM
Bayonets can be surprisingly persuasive.

CDFingers

bigstick61
04-06-2010, 11:46 AM
I keep my Lee-Enfield No.5 Mk I as my primary HD weapon. It is currently my best weapon suited to the task. A rifle will certainly put someone down if it comes to that. It's also short enough that I can pie most of the corners properly; it is actually a tad bit shorter than an M-16A2. I don't see anything wrong with using a rifle as long as you are aware about what is behind your target. The pistol is just for if I have to take immediate action without a chance to get something better/until I can get something better.

mls343
04-06-2010, 12:17 PM
I live in an urban environment, and a rifle will not cut it as a HD weapon because I value my neighbors and family members. If I lived in the country, then I might consider it.

For me, full battle rifles are not to well suited for my environment.

paul0660
04-06-2010, 12:29 PM
but 3rd degree burns covering 35% of his upper body from the muzzle blast

true dat.

GSequoia
04-06-2010, 12:58 PM
1: I would not use a Mosin Nagant rifle as a home defense gun. As perviously stated way too powerful and cumbersome on top of that.

2: If, for whatever crazy reason, I wanted to have an MN rifle in a ready state it would have five in the mag and the bolt open, I'm sure I can slap the bolt closed just as fast, if not faster, than grabbing the cocking piece, pulling, then putting my hand back into the trigger area.

pullnshoot25
04-06-2010, 1:06 PM
Get some subloads for that thing, no matter how far down the list it is. Also, empty chamber and 4 rounds in the mag shall suffice. No need to kill a neighbor.

bigthaiboy
04-06-2010, 1:14 PM
Talk about overkill. Shooting a Mosin in a confined space or hallway will very likely give you serious hearing damage. It's not like you would have time to remember to find your ear plugs when you have seconds to react to an intruder.

mif_slim
04-06-2010, 1:22 PM
hearing damage will be done no matter what fire arm is fired in a confine area. Think of all the WWII guys, Im sure plenty of them were not deaf after firing their MN inside a building. But I agree that MN is a over kill. Shotgun my friend, shotgun.

Nick1236
04-06-2010, 1:22 PM
I say find a M44 or M38 canrbine version and load the thing with blanks. The fireblast out the muzzle is enough to roast a chicken, and someones face.

POLICESTATE
04-06-2010, 1:23 PM
Decocked? Good way to have a round go thru your floor/wall/family/neighbor. Why aren't you using the SAFETY?

Putting a firing pin onto the primer of a 7.62x54r cartridge is beyond foolish.

Either use the safety (there's a technique to using it that is super easy) or have NO round chambered.

That's what I was thinking, how does one safely decock a Mosin in the first place? Very risky IMO.

bootcamp
04-06-2010, 1:26 PM
This thread was put up for comedy right? I see several homes with a hole aligned through all the homes. ahhahaha

Z ME FLY
04-06-2010, 1:28 PM
That's what I was thinking, how does one safely decock a Mosin in the first place? Very risky IMO.

You pull the round knob on the bolt and I believe you pull and turn to the left or right. Haven't shot the mosin in awhile so can't remember off the top of my head

POLICESTATE
04-06-2010, 1:28 PM
I politely nudge them with a cylinder of .357, if that doesn't motivate them, I will offer them 2070 grains of .45 ACP. By then I'm sure there would be no need for the 10/22, Forschner, or Mosin.


I thought birdshot doesn't penetrate enough to destroy the heart or CNS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're obviously shooting to kill, you're going to go directly to jail with that kind of plan.

POLICESTATE
04-06-2010, 1:29 PM
You pull the round knob on the bolt and I believe you pull and turn to the left or right. Haven't shot the mosin in awhile so can't remember off the top of my head

That's the safety, that is not decocking.

gunn
04-06-2010, 1:33 PM
Remember this one where the 19yr old shoots a per who was stealing his stereo with a Mosin?

All the internet bravado aside, don't be this guy. Think about the consequences of your actions (for you as I could care less about the perp) and be prepared to lawyer up.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411698_northgate30.html

nick
04-06-2010, 1:37 PM
I'd rather have a semiauto than a bolt action for close quarters HD. Ideally, a small semiauto, such as a handgun.

SixPointEight
04-06-2010, 1:45 PM
I can see the television broadcast now on the 8 o clock news.

Tricia Takanawa: A home invasion gone wrong in Point Loma tonight, as two armed men attempted to break into the home of what police describe as "a crazed russian guy" hopped up on way too much mountain dew.

At approximately 9:30PM these two individuals armed with baseball bats and an airsoft pellet gun tried taking the television out the front door of the crazed russian homeowner. From what neighbors tell us, he was armed with some sort of a rifle that appeared as though it was roughly 5 1/2 feet in length. One of the individuals pulled his airsoft pistol out of his pants, and the russian guy in fear for his life shot at the man. The second attacker with the baseball bat, defecated himself, turned and ran. He is currently in the intensive care unit at mercy hospital, not from any gun shot wounds, but 3rd degree burns covering 35% of his upper body from the muzzle blast, and a ruptured colon from what doctors describe as the most extreme bowel movement they've ever seen in medical history.

Both men are being charged with armed robbery, the russian guy is at home and not taking any questions not because he doesn't want to speak to the media, but because he cannot hear a damn thing we say.

The round fired from the rifle was last seen headed towards Kentucky, pissed off as all get out, and not slowing down anytime soon.

Onto the weather with Ollie Williams. Ollie?

IT'S GUNNA RAIN!!!!

[/broadcast]

LOL, Priceless.

You pull the round knob on the bolt and I believe you pull and turn to the left or right. Haven't shot the mosin in awhile so can't remember off the top of my head

That's the safety, And mine is like...IMPOSSIBLE to get on or off. To decock I'm pretty sure you hold the trigger while closing the bolt.

Brianguy
04-06-2010, 3:22 PM
Remember this one where the 19yr old shoots a per who was stealing his stereo with a Mosin?

All the internet bravado aside, don't be this guy. Think about the consequences of your actions (for you as I could care less about the perp) and be prepared to lawyer up.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411698_northgate30.html
back of the head! his face must have looked like spaghetti with meatballs:43:

Dr Rockso
04-06-2010, 3:35 PM
Remember this one where the 19yr old shoots a per who was stealing his stereo with a Mosin?

All the internet bravado aside, don't be this guy. Think about the consequences of your actions (for you as I could care less about the perp) and be prepared to lawyer up.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411698_northgate30.html

I never heard the outcome of that. Sounds like the shooter got off pretty easy all things considered. I've got to say, though, that 148 grains of steel core commie milsurp to the back of the head sounds like a pretty effective way of dealing with thieves.

MoBait
04-06-2010, 4:01 PM
You're obviously shooting to kill, you're going to go directly to jail with that kind of plan.

I don't see how my statement makes it obvious that I'm shooting to kill. I ran into someone that was causing problems on a sport fishing boat. He was about 45 years old, 5'7 and 150 pounds. He was cursing at people and we all tried ignoring him, then he decided to start pounding on some 15 year old kid. It took 6 of us just to push him away from the kid and about 10 of us to hold him down and tie him up. Gave him to the PD and they told us he was on PCP.

I'm saying that if someone comes into my home armed with PCP and isn't there to borrow sugar, it might take a cylinder of .357 and a mag of .45 and possibly even more. I'm confident that you can find police reports of drugged up felons not stopping from a dozen or so rounds in their body.

Dr. Peter Venkman
04-06-2010, 4:09 PM
I find the abundance of birdshot in this thread disturbing.

QFT. Birdshot is quite ****ty against people. I don't know why anyone would use it for HD when they have other options.

nick
04-06-2010, 6:08 PM
Remember this one where the 19yr old shoots a per who was stealing his stereo with a Mosin?

All the internet bravado aside, don't be this guy. Think about the consequences of your actions (for you as I could care less about the perp) and be prepared to lawyer up.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411698_northgate30.html

The laws that forbid the protection of one's property are plain wrong, and are one of the major drivers in the number of property crimes we have. That being said, pity about the victim (by which I mean the homeowner who defended his property).

nick
04-06-2010, 6:11 PM
QFT. Birdshot is quite ****ty against people. I don't know why anyone would use it for HD when they have other options.

People keep toying with "non-lethal" ideas at the expense of their own safety. The thinking, I believe, is that they won't be prosecuted/persecuted as hard because they attempted to safe the life of the scum that broke into their home. It's a bit naive, if you ask me.

Navyguy0023
04-06-2010, 6:25 PM
The laws that forbid the protection of one's property are plain wrong, and are one of the major drivers in the number of property crimes we have. That being said, pity about the victim (by which I mean the homeowner who defended his property).

I feel hard pressed to condone the shooting an unarmed man, outside of his home, in the back of the head, over a sub-woofer. His life or livelihood wasn't in danger, I am in no way condoning the thief's actions, but in this case it went too far.

nick
04-06-2010, 6:57 PM
I feel hard pressed to condone the shooting an unarmed man, outside of his home, in the back of the head, over a sub-woofer. His life or livelihood wasn't in danger, I am in no way condoning the thief's actions, but in this case it went too far.

It boils down to personal responsibility. One commits a crime against another person, the consequences are on his head.

The law is supposed to protect private property (although it hasn't been doing that much lately), not the criminal's right to steal it. By attaching conditions to when a criminal can be stopped from stealing the property, we effectively allow the criminal to steal someone's property.

I'd like to remind you that stealing one's property often means destroying one's livelihood, imposing hardship, and even when that's not the case, who are you (or me, or anyone else) to judge the value of someone else's property? It's PRIVATE property, not communal property. Unfortunately, we no longer have private property in this country, mostly due to the idea that we can have a say in the disposition of someone else's property.

Your sentiment is quite common these days, and is understandable. It comes from the changing nature of private property in this country, and the fact that we don't necessarily starve to death or go bankrupt when our property is stolen these days. Basically, we're father removed from reality than we used to, and as such, we deem that property crimes "aren't a big deal". However, they still are, and once again, it's simply immoral for us to decide on the disposition of someone else's private property. Not that we don't do it all the time, but to paraphrase Alan Gura's argument in the McDonald case, "just because we've grown accustomed to treating someone else's private property as communal property doesn't make it constitutional or moral".

Of course, you can CHOOSE to let the thief/burglar/robber leave with your property. However, it's immoral to impose your choice on someone defending HIS property.

I have a great way for the criminal not to die committing a crime - don't commit a crime. And if he does choose to commit a crime, I don't see why his victim should be punished for it. Unless we buy into the "poor good boy who just turned his life around and who had no choice but to steal that subwoofer" mentality, defending your property from him by all means necessary is morally acceptable. Anything less gives the control of your property to the said criminal (which is immoral), and leads to the erosion of private property ownership we're experiencing in this country today (which is unconstitutional).

Fate
04-06-2010, 7:07 PM
That's the safety, And mine is like...IMPOSSIBLE to get on or off.
Try the correct technique and you might not think it's so bad. Essentially it goes like this.

Put butt of rifle into crook of your arm
Pull the bolt knob with the hand of the arm you're using for step 1. This creates a counterpressure that takes strength out of the equation.
Rotate knob to "safe" position.
Done!

Fate
04-06-2010, 7:12 PM
I'm confident that you can find police reports of drugged up felons not stopping from a dozen or so rounds in their body.

That's why you put some follow up rounds to the HEAD. Kinda hard to keep perambulating without a cerebral cortex. :18:

Spiggy
04-06-2010, 7:31 PM
You're obviously shooting to kill, you're going to go directly to jail with that kind of plan.

I don't see how my statement makes it obvious that I'm shooting to kill.

Anyone enter my home uninvited and I have to pull out a gun, they better be unconscious or have their worldly affairs settled because the first round doesn't joke.

mls343
04-06-2010, 7:41 PM
+ 1 Spiggy

I take gun safety very seriously and I would NEVER point a gun at anyone - unless they were in a world of hurt - like breaking into my house and threatening my Family.

A friend of mine once said that if I ever pointed a gun at someone, they would already be dead.

robcoe
04-06-2010, 8:15 PM
To bad the guy in that news story got a jail sentence, shooting is probably not the choice I would make in that situation but I dont know what he saw so I cant say whether it was right or wrong.

As for useing a Mosin Nagant for home defense, I would just spend a little money, get a decent pump shotgun and some buckshot, safer for you, your neighbors, aircraft, and satilites in low earth orbit.

Spiggy
04-06-2010, 8:40 PM
get any variation of the "trench" shotgun(be it savage, remington, winchester, or ithica)

You can attach a sword your barrel shroud!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Spiggys_pics/US/Trench/trench3.jpg

Jimmy310
04-06-2010, 9:55 PM
Remember this one where the 19yr old shoots a per who was stealing his stereo with a Mosin?

All the internet bravado aside, don't be this guy. Think about the consequences of your actions (for you as I could care less about the perp) and be prepared to lawyer up.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411698_northgate30.html

The kids a good shot!

BatBoy2 75
04-06-2010, 10:14 PM
The kid that shot the stereo thief is an idiot and lucky he is only getting 9 months.

1) know the laws of your state. I lived in WA and know for a fact that you're going to prison for shooting a criminal that doesn't pose threat to you or others. The rifle shot to the back of head is a red flag that his story might not be completely true. It doesn't surprise me that the police and prosecutor gave this a lot of scrutiny and then went after the kid. If the rifle shot had been to the front of the head or center mass in the thief's chest, the 19yr old kid would be a free man.

2) Never make statements to the police beyond: "I feared for my life (and or loved one) and shot him." & "Sorry officer I can't answer any more questions until I talk with my attorney". You have a 5th amendment right to not incriminate yourself or answer the questions of the police. If the police don't like it; tough. Better to be taken in for questioning and or arrested than to make a bunch of statements that are going to be used against you in trial. Sorry, but if you're involved in a shooting the police are not your friend. This isn't a knock against LEO, they have a job to do. You're job is to take advantage of every constitutional right you have. In my opinion if the kid in question hadn't made the statements he made, he would have gotten off scott free; despite the gun shot to the back of the thief's head.

Noraku81
04-06-2010, 11:12 PM
I use my mosin for HD. It's my go to club if I run out of .40 and 00 buck and can't find my louisville slugger!

pullnshoot25
04-07-2010, 6:31 AM
get any variation of the "trench" shotgun(be it savage, remington, winchester, or ithica)

You can attach a sword your barrel shroud!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Spiggys_pics/US/Trench/trench3.jpg

I LOVE TRENCH GUNS!

Bishop
04-07-2010, 8:06 PM
A few things;

1. The mosin safety (pulling the round thingy back, turn counterclockwise, and let go) is very secure, but it can be difficult to use depending on the spring tension. Some are easy to use, some impossible. Decocking the gun requires closing the bolt while pulling the trigger, and will cause the firing pin to stick in the same position it would if you just pulled the trigger on it. If you have a live round in the chamber at this point, it probably has a lot of pressure on the primer, and is an accident waiting to happen. If you can't use the safety, load it with 4 shots on an empty chamber, or load it with five and leave the bolt open and back.

2. There is too much birdshot and non-lethal talk going on here. The only time it is legal for you point a gun at someone, and pull the trigger, is when you are in fear for your life. If the first shot was birdshot or rubber bullets, it's because you DIDN'T want to kill the person. (I suppose it could be different if you thought birdshot was the most effective, but that doesn't work if your first round is birdshot, and the rest buck!) If you point a gun at someone and shoot them, and intentionally DON'T want to kill them, then a prosecutor will determine that you didn't fear for your life. Same thing with warning shots.That's a bad shoot, and the kind that gets you sent to jail. Heaven help you if you say "Well, I loaded the first shot with rubber/birdshot because I didn't want to kill him!"

These are guns. Not toys. If you're shooting someone with one, it's because you mean it. Especially in California. Defending yourself in these cases are tough enough without muddying up the water with confusing intentions. Yes, I know it's screwy to be punished for trying to save the life of a criminal, but Ca. doesn't leave us with that option. It's all or nothing.

3. A mosin is a full powered rifle, and not best suited for urban areas. If you're not in one, more power to you. But if you are, then you need to weigh the cost of a $250 shotgun (on sale at big5!) against the bankrupting cost of a judgment against you for your bullet going through the bad guy, through the dry wall, through the plaster, through the fence, through the plaster again, through the dry wall again, and into your neighbor's sleeping kid. Yeah, I understand it's spectacularly unlikely that your point of aim will match perfectly with a human body other than your target, but people still win the lottery, and this is one lottery you don't want to win. $250 is dirt cheap for significantly less over penetration, more tissue damage from multiple hits per shell, and more ammo in your standard tube magazine. Plus you can rack it if you are so inclined, and you can store it loaded, with the safety on without all the worries of the mosin.

All that said, the mosin will work for home defense because it will stop intruders dead. But it's probably only suited for a "hide in the bedroom and call 911" situation. Just remember that there are FAR better choices for extremely fair prices.

Navyguy0023
04-07-2010, 8:48 PM
If you point a gun at someone and shoot them, and intentionally DON'T want to kill them, then a prosecutor will determine that you didn't fear for your life. Same thing with warning shots.That's a bad shoot, and the kind that gets you sent to jail. Heaven help you if you say "Well, I loaded the first shot with rubber/birdshot because I didn't want to kill him!"

These are guns. Not toys. If you're shooting someone with one, it's because you mean it. Especially in California. Defending yourself in these cases are tough enough without muddying up the water with confusing intentions. Yes, I know it's screwy to be punished for trying to save the life of a criminal, but Ca. doesn't leave us with that option. It's all or nothing.


Just wanted to say amen, here. A lot of people talk about less than lethal but in reality if you have the lee way to use it you probably the lee way to disengage or get out of the situation. Now less than lethal has its uses for Military/LEO where you "have" to engage but thats a whole other topic.

bigstick61
04-07-2010, 11:08 PM
If you ensure you are aware of what is behind where you are aiming your weapon and actually do aim, I don't see a problem in using a rifle for HD. I use mine for that purpose. The one exception would perhaps be an apartment complex or something like that (although frangible rounds exist for some calibers). I do have a shotgun, but I cannot use it with confidence in an HD situation until I significantly shorten the LOP, and my budget does not really allow for that.

With having a round in the chamber, if the weapon basically stays in place, there really won't be an issue. This issue is if you put the weapon in a position whereby the striker knob could bump into something with sufficient force to cause a discharge (which is quit possible); in that case you should definitely have the bolt closed, striker down, on an empty chamber.

AndrewMendez
04-08-2010, 12:09 AM
How about leave the Bayonet on it, and stab the purp?

johnthomas
04-08-2010, 12:44 AM
My son and I went target shooting a few weeks ago. The pictures show what a 7.62x54R does at 75 yards to 1/4 inch steel. That is a lot of walls. I would never use a Mosin for HD.

johnthomas
04-08-2010, 1:06 AM
My boss has a private ranch, where he and some buddies go shooting. One of them has a Mosin...It will penetrate 1/2" steel plate at 100 yards.

I wouldn't want to be your neighbor...

.

I would love to see pictures. Mine show 1/4 steel, I will try to have some targets made with 1/2 inch. After seeing what it does to 1/4 I don't doubt you at all.

robcoe
04-08-2010, 1:18 AM
My son and I went target shooting a few weeks ago. The pictures show what a 7.62x54R does at 75 yards to 1/4 inch steel. That is a lot of walls. I would never use a Mosin for HD.

Ive seen mini-30's do about the same damage to 1/4 inch plate. about the only thing ive seen in a building material that will reliably stop a 7.62x54 is brick or concrete block

SixPointEight
04-08-2010, 8:13 AM
Ive seen mini-30's do about the same damage to 1/4 inch plate. about the only thing ive seen in a building material that will reliably stop a 7.62x54 is brick or concrete block
Probably a lot of brick. At 25-50 yards(longer than most HD situations) My mosin blew a cinder block in half. But it wasn't filled, but still, I'd say it would total a brick too

robcoe
04-08-2010, 10:47 AM
Probably a lot of brick. At 25-50 yards(longer than most HD situations) My mosin blew a cinder block in half. But it wasn't filled, but still, I'd say it would total a brick too

I should have stated that I ment when they are in a wall, not on their own

bricks are actualy much stronger than cinderblocks, and when mortered together properly can stop most things smaller than a car. A brick wall would take some damage, but you would have to fire repeted rounds into the same brick to make it through, I'm sure a freestanding cinderblock would cracked in half, along with a freestanding brick, but with these types of materials when properly laid into a structure are stonger than the individual parts. I come from a family of masons and have seen brick walls survive abuse you would not believe and stay intact.

johnthomas
04-08-2010, 12:39 PM
http://corneredcat.com/FirstGun/long-gun.aspx

http://corneredcat.com/Ammunition/caliber.aspx

Here are a couple of articles I found, good read. The main thing about using weapons to defend your home is common sense. Is there such a thing as acceptable collateral damage when defending your home? Morally, legally? I've heard people say, as long as I'm safe, I'll deal with the aftermath later. In truth, we don't want to hurt innocent people. We don't even want to kill the guilty, just stop them from doing bad things to us and ours. As stated in the first article, pick a weapon your comfortable with, practice, practice, practice. In California we don't have the right to kill over property, our rules for engagement is vary narrow. We have limits, we really can live within those limits, protect our family, not go to jail and not hurt the innocent. Our goal in protecting ourselves and our family should encompass all of these.
A good thread would be a picture thread of damage to different building materials using different guns.

JAGACIDA
04-08-2010, 4:57 PM
What?

stix213
04-08-2010, 7:32 PM
I would probably use my M91/30 for HD if I feared elephant attack.

Otherwise my G26 should do nicely, followed by my Saiga 7.62x39 if its a zombie invasion.

packnrat
04-09-2010, 10:09 AM
I do have a M44 as a loaded rife....one of several rifles and pistols around the place.
even have a chicom sks and 300 rounds in the pickup.

.

5150bronco
04-09-2010, 10:32 AM
very interesting, but this is not the 1940s......

Etoshan
04-09-2010, 11:48 PM
Try the correct technique and you might not think it's so bad. Essentially it goes like this.

Put butt of rifle into crook of your arm
Pull the bolt knob with the hand of the arm you're using for step 1. This creates a counterpressure that takes strength out of the equation.
Rotate knob to "safe" position.
Done!


This procedure with a Mosin requires 3 more things: Practice...practice...practice.

Vladimir
04-10-2010, 12:19 AM
a mosin as a loaded HD weapon would be interesting in thought, but most likely I would never do it.

cmaher55
04-10-2010, 5:40 PM
I hope this question was not serious...? How many houses do you think your 7.62 X 54 round will go through before it stops...? I hope you are not my neighbor or at least within 10 houses from me and my family. Not a good home defense strategy.... If you must do this please saw off the tips of your bullets and drill them out to make hollow points, at least those would stop after going through 3 or 4 houses only....! :(

bigstick61
04-11-2010, 2:08 AM
The bullet's not going to go through three or four houses. It's not some magic death ray or something.

Spiggy
04-11-2010, 2:33 AM
I'd say 2-6 walls, depending on composition, thickness, and angle of entrance.

Won't be going through much if you live within masonry or have stone wall dividers. Likewise, if it's all just drywall, you will be going through all of it like nothing.

I'm thinking of this the way you would in WW2, say stalingrad hopping from building to building. If you can maim or kill your enemy through a wall, it's a bonus skill.

iareConfusE
04-11-2010, 10:07 AM
I think the Mosin bullet would probably go through 200 houses, and give every person inside each of those houses some kind of terrible disease. :|

Mosin is just overkill, but the thought of seeing such a thing in the news is hilarious. Especially if it was a bayonet kill or something.

Sampachi
04-11-2010, 3:38 PM
Don't most locales have a prohibition against using rifles within city limits, even in defense?

Barring an LA Riots/Zombie Plague/ Released Krakken scenario, I'll stick to revolvers or shotguns for HD.

bigstick61
04-11-2010, 10:14 PM
Don't most locales have a prohibition against using rifles within city limits, even in defense?

Barring an LA Riots/Zombie Plague/ Released Krakken scenario, I'll stick to revolvers or shotguns for HD.

I've never heard that. I know for a fact that my city's ordinances don't include such a law. They only apply to non-defensive discharge and in order to discharge it while a certain distance from a dwelling and while not shooting towards them the projectile and gun cannot have a maximum range exceeding 500 feet, which covers more than just rifles.

gorblimey
04-12-2010, 1:08 AM
I have some ammo on clips handy, but that's about it.

FWIW, all firearms here have an empty chamber. I find the cost/benefit of having one in the pipe, especially with a child in the house, to be unacceptable.

That is to say, saving a fraction of a second in the exceedingly unlikely case of a home invasion versus making it difficult or impossible for a youngster to operate, in case they breach other security measures, is a no-brainer.

I try to dry fire a little bit every day, so a quick load/reload is not a problem (at least in condition yellow, physiologically speaking).

mls343
04-12-2010, 9:58 AM
+1 gorblimey - I too have kids, so loaded weapons are not in any plans fo rme. With that said, I do have my trusty 1911 in a secure place with a loaded magazine in an easy to reach although seperate place. In the event of some kind of home robbery situation, I'm about 10- 20 seconds away from being able to do something about it.

For me, a handgun just makes more sense given all the variables.

dragonbait1a
04-13-2010, 11:34 AM
(humor)
The Mosin makes a great home defense weapon. As a club and pike. A baseball bat for home defense is a felony (yes, it's legal for "baseball"). A Mosin is just as good a club, has a sharp edge and is a firearm not a club, making it legal! Load the mag or don't it doesn't matter, the way to use a Mosin in your home is to club and stab.
(/Humor)

However, If I had a M44 and nothing else, I'd have it with a loaded mag and empty chamber up high on a gun rack. Back when all the family had was a 30-06 that's what we did. But as soon as we scraped together shotgun money the rifle went into the safe. A .22 autoloader would even be preferable.

YMMV.

RGB

Longshot37
04-13-2010, 1:31 PM
So does this mean my .50 bmg isnt a good Hd gun either?

Robidouxs
04-15-2010, 3:15 PM
The bayonet on the M44 is quite useful, it gives me reach and is versatile (picture roasting chickens or a hotdog over a open fire). For HD I would hope all I would need is for the assailant to see the rifle with bayonet out and decide to book it out of my home. In the worst off all scenarios, load a round in the chamber and fight for your life. At earliest and safest opportunity the police would be called.

Robidouxs
04-15-2010, 3:16 PM
So does this mean my .50 bmg isnt a good Hd gun either?

I don't think you would even have to discharge the rifle, the guy would already be out the door!!

diginit
04-15-2010, 6:02 PM
+1 gorblimey - I too have kids, so loaded weapons are not in any plans fo rme. With that said, I do have my trusty 1911 in a secure place with a loaded magazine in an easy to reach although seperate place. In the event of some kind of home robbery situation, I'm about 10- 20 seconds away from being able to do something about it.

For me, a handgun just makes more sense given all the variables.

Sorry to say, but 10 to 20 seconds is too long. If someone kicks in the front door, You have about 3 seconds to respond. Maybe 10 if you are in the back room and you are awake. But definetly a handgun or 00 buck for HD. My 1911 is cocked and locked at all times. A mosin or a 10/22 is out of the question. Too strong and too weak.

gorblimey
04-17-2010, 12:14 AM
Sorry to say, but 10 to 20 seconds is too long. If someone kicks in the front door, You have about 3 seconds to respond. Maybe 10 if you are in the back room and you are awake. But definetly a handgun or 00 buck for HD. My 1911 is cocked and locked at all times. A mosin or a 10/22 is out of the question. Too strong and too weak.


Well.. a risk management strategy grounded in probabilistic estimates should reflect the exceedingly small chance of a home invasion given a decent neighborhood, and the round-the-clock plotting of a youthful ninja to gain access.

The door kicking aspect can be rendered moot via proper door(s) and installation. Security film helps with windows.

A good option for parents who want/need a heightened defensive posture with the utmost in kid safety, is simply positive weapon control -- wear the handgun, use it to get to a kid-proofed shotgun.

Probably the best options of all would be having a dog and well-behaved reliable children, though that last bit seems to happen, if at all, when they hit their 30s.

tow4dough
04-18-2010, 7:28 PM
i think a slide action shotgun is ideal-- because of the sound it makes when you rack that sucka.
instantly recognizable, and in some cases enough action to end it right there

Rob454
04-19-2010, 2:45 PM
A little "hot" for urban Home Defense. If it's all you've got, then use it.

Keep in mind most high power rifles will carry through many walls and your neighbor's homes.



Jake

You got that right. I had a neighbor kid shoot a AK round through his drywall stud my drywall through my mattress, tv drywall stud drywall and finally stopped in my closet door. basically 4 sheets of drywall two 2x4 studs a mattress a tv and a pressed board closet door. And that round is about 1/2 the power of the mosin round IMO
Kid had to pay for all the damages. I think he ended up working for his dad for 2 months to pay for the work needed and replacement of the tv.

cmaher55
04-19-2010, 4:41 PM
You got that right. I had a neighbor kid shoot a AK round through his drywall stud my drywall through my mattress, tv drywall stud drywall and finally stopped in my closet door. basically 4 sheets of drywall two 2x4 studs a mattress a tv and a pressed board closet door. And that round is about 1/2 the power of the mosin round IMO
Kid had to pay for all the damages. I think he ended up working for his dad for 2 months to pay for the work needed and replacement of the tv.

Bingo.....! Somebody with some actual experience and knowledge...! Like I said earlier in this thread I'd like to be ten houses away from this guy....! That Mosin round might just stop in the third or fourth house or maybe in the tenth double wide down the block....! You guys who take this lightly just amaze me...! A Mosin for home defense is an idiots idea unless you live alone and out in the sticks with no other houses around for a couple of miles, period...! :no:

Vlad 11
04-29-2010, 8:24 PM
Found this newslink concerning some idiot who thought having a loaded M44, and showing it off around children was a good idea. Of course the gun goes off and injures the little girl. WTF what an utter moron. In an apt complex no less. A Mosin has no business being loaded in any residential area.

http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=150135

Czechsix
04-29-2010, 9:03 PM
Damn, be nice to the guy.

It's not everyone that has to deal with a 500 arshin long hallway, ya know.

johnthomas
04-29-2010, 10:22 PM
I've been saying that all along. Terrible idea to have this powerful war weapon loaded and racked in a place you may shoot an innocent. Man I wish I could be on his jury.