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View Full Version : Legal California 9/10rounds Mag w/ all 30rounds mag PARTS


Jicko
02-14-2006, 4:21 PM
Legal California 9/10rounds Mag w/ all 20/30rounds mag PARTS

Just like our "CA Legal Fixed Mag" Rifle, when SHTF, or you walked out of the CA-state line..... it can be "resumed" to the "FREE STATE" Standard....

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Reading the laws again, and thinking about it more....

It should be all LEGAL, to import 30rounds magazine PARTS..... just like we import "CA LEGAL" lower receivers....

Then, when we are assembling the magazine, we add 1 more piece to it (just like we add sport-conv kit to our rifles).... and that piece is a "block"..... maybe someone can "invent" that block.... it fit between "the spring" and "the baseplate".....

So you take the "30rnds mag body", put in the "follower", then the "spring", then the "block", then close it up with the "plate"...

This should be a legal "10 rounds" magazine (or to be safe, a "9 rounds" magazine)...

Any comments? (Bill, TechTed, etc.... guru..... pls..... tell us if this is OK/possible....)


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It is NOT for the money, it is for the LOOK.... (and resumability.... just like we like our "unlisted lowers"... and we hate the "FAB-10")

To be safe, we can make the mag take ONLY 9 rounds.... 9 or 10 to me doesn't matter... 9+1=10 anyways....

So,
1) order a 30rnds mag body
2) order a follower
3) order a 30rnds spring
4) order a baseplate
5) cut a block of wood or plastic that will fill up all the space between the spring and the baseplate

This is truely a little scray, if they find your recipts for items 1,2,3 & 4.... but I guess it would be OK as long as they never find a hi-cap mag in your possession.... or they can jam more than 9 rounds into that fixed mag...

Just remember, while in CA land, DO NOT ASSEMBLY without the "BLOCK"..... just like DO NOT ASSEMBLY a AR15 w/ detachable magazine......

theseacow
02-14-2006, 4:24 PM
not a bad idea for those who travel.
Maybe MUD can engineer up something.

HK_Fan
02-14-2006, 4:30 PM
Easy to just put a few set style scews in the front and back of the mag at the position that it will not allow the follower to go down further than 10 rounds worth. Good Idea, I think that I may try it :)

shopkeep
02-14-2006, 4:40 PM
I don't see what the point of fixing in a gimped 30 rounder is. True, it looks pretty cool... but it reduces the ability of the upper to swing open. I stand firm in my belief that the bushmaster 10 round is the ultimate balance between looking cool and functioning right.

Jicko
02-14-2006, 4:43 PM
Same theory/assemble-procedures apply to 20rounds PARTS too!!
> 20 rounds body
> 20 rounds spring

But when you go outside of CA, you can remove your "sport-conv" kit, and you can remove your "magazine rounds-reduction BLOCK"... then you will have a REAL AR15 with detachable HI-CAP magazines!!!!!

elmo
02-14-2006, 4:48 PM
I don't see what the point of fixing in a gimped 30 rounder is. True, it looks pretty cool... but it reduces the ability of the upper to swing open.

how does a longer magazine effect it flipping open?

The original poster has a good idea. Just get a block and stick it in. Something as simple as stacked up popcicle sticks would work.

the 20 round bushmaster does look cool, but it is noticeably shorter than a real 20 rounder. Shiet..i'mma try this tonight hahaha.

HEUER
02-14-2006, 4:54 PM
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. What's the point of a fake 30 round magazine? Looking cool? :confused:

Jicko
02-14-2006, 4:58 PM
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. What's the point of a fake 30 round magazine? Looking cool? :confused:

RESUMABILITY..... if you go to shoot in NEVADA or ARIZONA.... ie.... you can attend a 3-guns match in ARIZONA, and have detachable magazines, and 30rounders!!! (you can also, bring them back into CA..... with the BLOCK inserted..... and of course, your sport-conv kit installed.....)

"Just like our "CA Legal Fixed Mag" Rifle, when SHTF, or you walked out of the CA-state line..... it can be "resumed" to the "FREE STATE" Standard...."

marklbucla
02-14-2006, 5:03 PM
What's the point of a fake 30 round magazine? Looking cool?

Yeah, this is CALiforniaGUNS

elmo
02-14-2006, 5:05 PM
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. What's the point of a fake 30 round magazine? Looking cool? :confused:

i'm normally with you on these type of things. but yes, it's to look cool!

same reason goes for why my furniture on my .223 is desert tan. I'm not planning on fighting a war in desert anytime soon, it' there just to look cool. not everything is for function, a lot can be for the asthetics

one more thing that might have been missed. There are those out here that have legally 20 and 30 round magazines. Right now they are useless to us. So the fact we can actually USE them now as 10 rounders is a plus. No need to spend $20 to get the bushmaster 10 round magazine

Rumpled
02-14-2006, 5:13 PM
I'm pretty sure we've all been thru this before here.
My take = I won't try it.

I believe that you can only get hi cap parts to repair your existing mags, not to make new ones.

The new Bushies are made to not be disassembled. The idea of an easy conversion to hi-cap seems to be a problem with DOJ and BATFE.

SI-guru
02-14-2006, 5:17 PM
I think this is pushing towards 58 DA's may disagree grey area. I wouldn't do it but you are welcome to be a test case. :o

Jicko
02-14-2006, 5:26 PM
I believe that you can only get hi cap parts to repair your existing mags, not to make new ones.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

"A large capacity magazine is defined as any ammunition feeding device with a capacity to accept more than 10 rounds"

So, just like a "lower receiver" is a PART, and is NOT an AW...... any 1 piece of "30 rounds magazine" PART is NOT a "large capacity magazine".... so, buying and importing a PART, without the intention to make "large capacity magazine", should be WITHIN THE LAW...... *just* like, buying a "lower receiver", without the intention to make an AW, IS WITHIN THE LAW....

Also, we will be "manufacturing" a 9 rounds magazine..... therefore, we are NOT manufacturing a "large capacity magazine".....

The WAY we put the 9 rounds magazine together is probably NOT "APPROVED".... but we are NOT BREAKING the LAW.... just like... I bet, the way how we use the sport-conv kit to fix the magazine is NOT "APPROVED".... but at the same token... we are NOT BREAKING the LAW

kantstudien
02-14-2006, 5:27 PM
Hope some of you guys are planning on going to jail for a felony. You cannot use a 30 round mag (acquired post-Jan 1, 2000) and "convert" it to a ten rounder and hope to easily "switch" to a 30 rounder again when you cross state lines. Any alterations must be permanent, meaning that it cannot ever be able to be converted back to 10+ capacity. Just like a Bushmaster mag cannot ever be made into a 20 rounder again.

bu-bye
02-14-2006, 5:31 PM
I think this is pushing towards 58 DA's may disagree grey area. I wouldn't do it but you are welcome to be a test case. :o

I agree, if you want to get your 30rd jollies or compete in a 3 gun just pick up a couple mags on the other side for cheap and sell them off before you leave. I think bringing them back over is going to line you up for problem down the round esp if you bring pinned 30rd mags to the range. I really like the BM 10rd mags as does everyone else. I think they look great and funtions great. You will have a harder time expaning why you brought in high caps mags and pinned them then if you just said you had them before 2000. I am in NO WAY suggesting you brake the law and bring in High cap mags!!! I'm just saying you are setting yourself up to explain why you have a 30rd mag attached to your pinned mag AR. There is going to be one LEO that knows enough about 30rd mags but not enough about the grey areas and he or she will take your mags with gun attached.

Jicko
02-14-2006, 5:39 PM
You cannot use a 30 round mag (acquired post-Jan 1, 2000) and "convert" it to a ten rounder and hope to easily "switch" to a 30 rounder again when you cross state lines.

Which LAW limit you to use new 30 rounders OUTSIDE of California, in a state that ALLOWS hi-capacity magazines usage/owning/buying? The ONLY problem is to BRING THEM BACK into CA..... just like when we go outside of CA, we can remove the sport-conv-kit, and resume our rifles to have "detachable magazines"......

So before you come back into CA, put on your sport-conv-kit, make all your 30 rounders back into 9 rounders.... and come back in..... then you DO NOT have ANY "ammunition feeding device with a capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" nor you have a .223 self loading rifle that have "Generic Characteristics of an AW"


Any alterations must be permanent, meaning that it cannot ever be able to be converted back to 10+ capacity. Just like a Bushmaster mag cannot ever be made into a 20 rounder again.

Again, there isn't a LAW stating that aleration must be permanent.... it would probably be HARD to get the "BLESSING" from ATF if it is NOT permanent.... but NOT "APPROVED" not equal to NOT WITHIN THE LAW.... i think we are ALL playing that game regarding our "CA Legal self loading .223"s.....

The CA DOJ guide ONLY state that "A large capacity magazine is defined as any ammunition feeding device with a capacity to accept more than 10 rounds but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that is permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds"

Jicko
02-14-2006, 5:45 PM
By the way.... afterall this is a RFC (request for comment) exercise...

If we think we can TRY to test the water with the DOJ...

One of us can write them a LETTER... and see what they say... they probably won't LIE in the letter... they can QUOTE LAW to say it is NOT OK... or... they may say... it IS OK, just DON'T MAKE one that take more than 10rounds (just like the "lower receiver" letters, don't make anything that have "generic characteristics")... and they may say.... 58 DAs *may* not think the same way....

Nothing to lose to try, RIGHT!?

I just see that this situation is VERY SIMILAR to the way we get the "lower receivers" into CA!!

Jicko
02-14-2006, 5:48 PM
My point is, if the DOJ determines that the mags can be converted back to their original capacity without breaking the mag, you're treading a thin line between legal and illegal.

I do certainly SEE your point.... but isn't this *just* like our "lower receivers" situation? They certainly won't APPROVE "sport-conv-kit + regular BM lower" as CA-legal model..... but isn't MANY of us regards "sport-conv-kit + STAG lower" as CA-legal?

HEUER
02-14-2006, 6:12 PM
That made me laugh TED. I don't know why. :D

pidooma
02-14-2006, 6:18 PM
That made me laugh TED. I don't know why. :D

You aren't the only one.

Rumpled
02-14-2006, 6:26 PM
More than two.

leelaw
02-14-2006, 6:40 PM
We need a [lol] animated emoticon.

saki302
02-14-2006, 6:48 PM
Hmmmm..

Anyone have the *EXACT* wording of the SB23 sentence which specifies the law regarding hi-cap mags?

The DOJ's AW guide does say 'permanently' altered, but I'd like to see what the *REAL* text says. We all know what the DOJ's memos are worth (see new memo on CA lowers).

If the wording is as quoted on the AW guide, your only option to bring back 30 rounders would be to store them in a bucket as PARTS, and NEVER assemble them until you leave the state, and return to the bucket as PARTS before returning. Probably easier to leave them with an out of state friend.

Or bring a grandfathered 30 round mag with you when going out of state- I believe you are entitled to bring one of those in and out as you please.

-Dave

ghostrider4evr
02-14-2006, 7:34 PM
Make that three.

kal
02-14-2006, 9:34 PM
yes it has to be permanant, but if some cop confiscates your gun because it looks illegal to him and it goes before a judge you would have to convince him how permanent the conversion is. could very well be some antigun judge who would love to nail you on a technicality and no matter what you did he could find an imaginitive way to convert it back!

(Penal Code 12020(a), 12020(b)(15).)
A large capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds, a tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm, or a .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device. (Penal Code 12020(c)(25).)

ldivinag
02-15-2006, 12:10 AM
i'm planning on taking some sheet metal and wrapping it around the 10 rounder and making it look like a 20 round .308 mag.

that way, i look wayyyyyy cooler with my faux AR-10...

Stanze
02-15-2006, 12:51 AM
I personally don't think JickoRicko is a idiot. I know him personally, have gone shooting with him and know that he's just like us, trying to cope with these crappy gun laws in the state. He got into shooting two years ago, and shoots and reloads ammo every weekend, he follows all the basic rules of gun safety and is teaches new shooters proper gun handling and technique. He follows through on all his deals and group buys like a true gentleman, and makes sure every legal t and i is crossed and dotted when buying firearms. Hardly the doings of a idiot IMO. We have both remarked in the real world that "Tech Ted" knows his stuff and is looked up to, and I'm a bit disappointed by the name calling.:confused:

Maybe things get lost in translation from thought to text, yes. Maybe a bit of research or search could prevent some embarassment, but a true idiot would just blatently violate the law without bothering to learn it, or know your rights.

Us more experienced shooters can exhibit a bit of patience and encouragement of the shooting sports for those that sincerely have questions and want to learn. Otherwise, what's the point of this board other than a knowledge pissing contest?

Later today I pick up a 10 round Bushmaster mag and fixed mag kit JickoRicko piggyback ordered for me, because he's down with the cause. You want the man on your side, cut him some slack...he doesn't repeat the same silly question once answered.

Stick together team.;)

TonyM
02-15-2006, 8:36 AM
cut him some slack...he doesn't repeat the same silly question once answered.


No, he starts a brand new thread asking a very similar question that takes very little effort to find the answer. He's the type that could find the answer, but would rather have someone else do the legwork and point everything out to him. I know he's your friend, fine. Do a search on his threads and look at just how many he has started that are related.

I agree with Ted on this one. I think from now on I need to start filtering threads by author.

Jeff Rambo
02-15-2006, 9:39 AM
Guys, I have operated a very popular bulletin board for over six years now and have been online myself since 1994. One thing that I learned a long time ago, is that context, tones, and intent is easily lost in online communication. Online communication is especially difficult when it comes to bulletin boards given the dynamic nature being that the demographics that are in play are typically very diversified. With this in mind, it can be especially frustrating when dealing with someone who learned English as a second, third, or fourth language.

I will be the first to admit that throughout all walks of life there are idiots out there. Such people that are outright oxygen thieves that should not be afforded the luxury of opening their mouths, let alone having a keyboard in front of them. But let's try to keep things civil and if you disagree with someone then so be it. But rather than slinging mud back and forth, state your case, move on, use the ignore feature if need be and let the chips fall where they may.

Alienating board members is not going to serve any useful purpose nine times out of ten. That is why we as gun owners are are stuck behind times right now because we are divided. Instead of educating, correcting, and resolving, we demean, alienate, and separate.

SI-guru
02-15-2006, 12:10 PM
Jeff,
I agree with your comments on BBS discussion tolerance most of the time. However, in this particular case I will have to disagree. A Navy Seal wannabe can talk like an idiot but will never be able to follow up and go to the sand box and get killed.
Configure your off-list the wrong way and you bump into the right cop in the wrong place will land you in jail very quickly. The last thing we want to encourage is some idiotic idea that get pass along and when enough people jump up and say "cool !", it becomes the right thing to do.

Jeff Rambo
02-15-2006, 12:19 PM
I understand and agree with your viewpoint completely. That was why I stated in my previous post to state whatever your case may be, especially if your intent is to keep someone out of jail by educating and correcting them. But if the person fails to see the error of their ways and get on the right course, then let them travel down the path they are paving for themselves. Every group has their 10%.

MsJamie
02-15-2006, 11:14 PM
When I first asked the question regarding limiting "hi-cap" mags to 10 rounds was to be able to use the $5 show specials rather than the $20 Bushies.

My point was to save money. Looks were just a bonus.