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View Full Version : hypothetical - my registered AW lower breaks...


subroutine
02-14-2006, 2:28 PM
ok,
question -
let's say i buy an "off-list" receiver. and let's say the DOJ puts it on the banned list, and i regester it as an AW......
what happens if my lower breaks/cracks/becomes defective.........and is still under warranty. will i be able to send it back to the manufacturer for replacement and will the manufacturer actually be able to send it back to me??

SUB

C.G.
02-14-2006, 2:40 PM
ok,
question -
let's say i buy an "off-list" receiver. and let's say the DOJ puts it on the banned list, and i regester it as an AW......
what happens if my lower breaks/cracks/becomes defective.........and is still under warranty. will i be able to send it back to the manufacturer for replacement and will the manufacturer actually be able to send it back to me??

SUB
Yes, you can send it back, but will have to do it through an FFL that has an AW permit. If the manufacturer replaces the receiver it would have to be the same serial number as the defective one.

Jeff Rambo
02-14-2006, 2:40 PM
Yes, as long as it maintains the same serial number in the event they replace it completely.

C.G.
02-14-2006, 2:43 PM
Yes, as long as it maintains the same serial number in the event they replace it completely.
A few seconds ahead of you, I guess I type faster!:D

Jeff Rambo
02-14-2006, 2:47 PM
75-90WPM depending on the task at hand :D

blacklisted
02-14-2006, 2:50 PM
Instead of going through an AW permit FFL, I think it would be easier to drive out of state and send it to the manufacturer from there.

ArmedBear
02-14-2006, 2:51 PM
If the DOJ lists those receivers (and they might figure it's smarter not to -- who really cares if a few hobbyists build neutered AR's in their garages anyway?) I'm probably going to get a Vulcan CA-legal and slap all the parts on it. No need to put any wear and tear on a listed lower.

Something to think about.

Jeff Rambo
02-14-2006, 2:57 PM
who really cares if a few hobbyists build neutered AR's in their garages anyway?)

Hmm... a few? All signs point to the amount of receivers coming into California being in the neighborhood of 10,000. Let's just hypothetically say the average number of receivers bought by one person was 3, that would mean 3,333 hobbyists :)

ArmedBear
02-14-2006, 3:04 PM
Yes, but all those people passed background checks. They could have bought fixed-mag lowers as well. If the lowers don't get listed, they can only build fixed-mag rifles, or be felons. If they DO get listed, despite what the DOJ says, most likely they can have legal "assault weapons" with detachable magazines.

The estimates I've seen of AR's already in the state that no one bothered to register a few years back are 100,000 or more. This is a drop in the bucket, and the people doing this are collectors like us. The criminal element doesn't use these guns generally, and those who might aren't building them for fun, after going through a background check! The DOJ knows this, no matter what their rhetoric might be.

So, I still don't think it's a done deal until it's a done deal.

subroutine
02-14-2006, 3:05 PM
so i would have to "again" do an FFL transfer for my lower back to the factory, and then FFL "again" back to the lovely state of CA??..................HMM $130 both ways.........cheaper to just buy an extra one.........which is what i was debating

SUB

MikeG22
02-14-2006, 4:26 PM
so i would have to "again" do an FFL transfer for my lower back to the factory, and then FFL "again" back to the lovely state of CA??..................HMM $130 both ways.........cheaper to just buy an extra one.........which is what i was debating

SUB

No, you'd take it to the AW dealer who would ship it to be repaired and then get it back from the shop and then give it to you. You aren't DROS'ing again or anything like that. You would probably pay for the shipping and like 10 bucks for the effort of doing the shipping/receiving.

saki302
02-14-2006, 6:57 PM
If you mailed it to the mfr. from out of state, could they send it directly back to you? Federal law allows this- dunno about state law..

It's *rare* to hear about any broken receiver though, unless you're talking about a kaboom'ed one, in which case the receiver would be the least of your worries at that time.

-Dave

C.G.
02-14-2006, 7:40 PM
No, you'd take it to the AW dealer who would ship it to be repaired and then get it back from the shop and then give it to you. You aren't DROS'ing again or anything like that. You would probably pay for the shipping and like 10 bucks for the effort of doing the shipping/receiving.

Exactly!


originally posted by saki302 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/member.php?u=2)





If you mailed it to the mfr. from out of state, could they send it directly back to you? Federal law allows this- dunno about state law..



Legally, they can only ship a non-AW to the address, from which it was sent; AW can only be shipped to and from an AW permit holder.

subroutine
02-14-2006, 7:56 PM
If you mailed it to the mfr. from out of state, could they send it directly back to you? Federal law allows this- dunno about state law..

It's *rare* to hear about any broken receiver though, unless you're talking about a kaboom'ed one, in which case the receiver would be the least of your worries at that time.

-Dave

ewww......how often does a receiver go "ka-boom"?? that sounds bad

so, i'm talking basically about a stag receiver......does anyone know if stag would send me a new one w/ the same serial number?.....or should i just ask them directly what their policy is........

SUB

C.G.
02-14-2006, 8:31 PM
ewww......how often does a receiver go "ka-boom"?? that sounds bad

so, i'm talking basically about a stag receiver......does anyone know if stag would send me a new one w/ the same serial number?.....or should i just ask them directly what their policy is........

SUB

You would have to ask them; but the chances of a lower going boom are pretty small, only heard of that happening when a round went off out of battery.

saki302
02-15-2006, 1:34 AM
You would have to ask them; but the chances of a lower going boom are pretty small, only heard of that happening when a round went off out of battery.


And if that happens- the lower is the least of yor worries :D

I've seen photos of that happening once. If you still have both eyes and 10 functional fingers, a church visit and thanks on your knees would be in order.

-Dave

xenophobe
02-15-2006, 2:36 AM
There is no provision in the law to replace a defective, broken or stolen AW.

If one of your lowers were to break or to be broken, only the manufacturer would be able to replace your lower with another having an identical serial number. Some manufacturers will not do this, though they will happily replace it with a part with a new serial number. If this worries you, you should contact any particular company and see if it's within their ability to do this.

monkey
02-15-2006, 3:34 PM
No, you'd take it to the AW dealer who would ship it to be repaired and then get it back from the shop and then give it to you. You aren't DROS'ing again or anything like that. You would probably pay for the shipping and like 10 bucks for the effort of doing the shipping/receiving.

You clearly haven't done this in awhile.

AW permitees are a fickle bunch. They get the permits not to service AW-owning civilians, but to handle law enforcement or gov't sales, repairs, etc. AWs cost the DOJ a lot of money in administative costs and charging a large fee across the board was deemed unfair to the majority of permit holders who do mostly law enforcement gunsmithing and do not deal in civilian AWs. Trying to be fair, the DOJ has created a use-based fee schedule for the permits. DOJ has settled on out-going transfers as a measure of how much use the AW permit is getting. The more out-going transfers a permit holder does each year, the more he is charged for the permit the next year. This creates a situation where one single transfer can put a permit holder into the next fee bracket, which can double the permit fee at renewal time. Hence they tend not to do out-going transfers unless they are large volume (i.e. they make more money).

If you bring your AW into an AW-permitted FFL and ask them to ship it out-of-state as the the law mandates, 8 times out of 10 they will say no and send you on your way simply because it's too expensive for them to do it. 1 in 10 will do it, but charge you outrageously for the use of the permit. $200 for the dealer fee alone is common. There's always the benevolent AW permitee-I'll call him the other 1 in 10-who will help you out for a very modest fee, but I have yet to meet him.

This has created a situation where the law cannot be reasonably followed. DOJ is aware of this, but I have no idea what they are doing about it, if anything. So, as someone above mentioned, driving to Nevada and shipping it from there is not just convenient in an absurd sense, but it may be the only way for you to follow the law in getting your AW to a new owner out-of-state. Thankfully, I have not had to deal with a return ticket on any AW I've owned, so I cannot speak on how difficult it would be to get return AW transfer done.

kantstudien
02-15-2006, 4:04 PM
If your lower were to "break," then you simply use the other 11 lowers that you also bought. ;)

ohsmily
02-15-2006, 4:05 PM
Hmm... a few? All signs point to the amount of receivers coming into California being in the neighborhood of 10,000. Let's just hypothetically say the average number of receivers bought by one person was 3, that would mean 3,333 hobbyists :)

that is a FEW. That is nothing compared to the number of gun owners and guns in this state. Compare 3,333 to the population of CA...not even a drop in the bucket.

Jeff Rambo
02-15-2006, 4:11 PM
In that context, I will concede to that train of thought.

Mirage
02-15-2006, 5:25 PM
Sorry for my ignorance, but I take it, from reading this thread, that you cannot weld on a receiver. If it breaks your only option would be replacement?

C.G.
02-15-2006, 6:28 PM
Sorry for my ignorance, but I take it, from reading this thread, that you cannot weld on a receiver. If it breaks your only option would be replacement?

You can weld on it, just can't obstruct serial numbers; on the other hand, some series of aluminum are a pain to weld properly, especially when anodized; not suggested for a lower that is in pieces.

Mirage
02-15-2006, 8:23 PM
You can weld on it, just can't obstruct serial numbers; on the other hand, some series of aluminum are a pain to weld properly, especially when anodized; not suggested for a lower that is in pieces.
Ok that is good news.
I was thinking of things like the front pivot eyes on the Sun Devil lowers appear to be a bit thinner,and fragile than any others I have seen. Also the extra activity on the rear take down pin.

Jeff Rambo
02-16-2006, 11:42 AM
Some manufacturers (in all industries) will replace items with the same serial number, while others will not.

xenophobe
02-16-2006, 11:43 AM
That's not how it happened with me. My Bushy blew up a couple of years ago and I had to have it replaced. Bushmaster will not make another gun with the same serial number, so I had my lower receiver replaced with a newly manufactured Bushmaster XM-15 E2S. The DOJ updated my AW registration to reflect the fact that my AR lower now had a new serial number.

Wow... you're lucky. I know of 2 people that had registered AWs break or blow up, and DOJ denied them changing the serial number.

bwiese
02-16-2006, 1:12 PM
That's not how it happened with me. My Bushy blew up a couple of years ago and I had to have it replaced. Bushmaster will not make another gun with the same serial number, so I had my lower receiver replaced with a newly manufactured Bushmaster XM-15 E2S. The DOJ updated my AW registration to reflect the fact that my AR lower now had a new serial number.

Wow... you're lucky. I know of 2 people that had registered AWs break or blow up, and DOJ denied them changing the serial number.

I wish we could get documentation on those denials. Love to hammer the DOJ over that.

bg
02-16-2006, 9:46 PM
75-90WPM depending on the task at hand :D
Well by golly I can type that fast too. They just won't make
any sense...How many AW FFLS are avail ? I know of one
who posts here on the site. Are there more ?

techenigma
02-16-2006, 10:05 PM
Well by golly I can type that fast too. They just won't make
any sense...How many AW FFLS are avail ? I know of one
who posts here on the site. Are there more ?

isn't Ted @ La Guns an AW FFL? Unless thats who you're talking about since he does post on here.