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View Full Version : WTF!?!? Would you give up your DNA to police??


BigBamBoo
04-01-2010, 6:40 PM
Hope this is not a dupe....volunteering to give up your DNA...just to prove your innocent?? . There are a couple of videos.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/7298404/

Take care,Stan

nn3453
04-01-2010, 6:43 PM
It was voluntary. It is common for Johnny Law to get people to give up their rights to "help" the common good. People fall for it all the time because they want to help an authority figure. LE is taught to present themselves the right way and ask the right questions. Nothing new.

Not everyone knows what rights they have. The Bill of Rights and Amendments are taught in schools but kids aren't taught what they really mean on a day to day basis.

POLICESTATE
04-01-2010, 6:45 PM
When I mailed back the census form I used a damp sponge to seal the envelope. A little :TFH: maybe, but then why should I give them anymore info than I need to?

AndrewMendez
04-01-2010, 6:45 PM
Sad Sad Sad, on the contrary, if I was being accused of rape, and that was the only way to clear my name...TAKE IT!

nn3453
04-01-2010, 6:48 PM
Sad Sad Sad, on the contrary, if I was being accused of rape, and that was the only way to clear my name...TAKE IT!

The only way to clear your name is to get legal representation.

SickofSoCal
04-01-2010, 6:50 PM
Hell no!

a1c
04-01-2010, 6:51 PM
The North Carolina AG (and other states) have been trying to build huge DNA databases of not just convicted criminals, but also keeping the DNA of anyone suspected for anything, even if they are later found innocent:
http://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org/?q=proposal-expand-ncs-dna-database

Ca Patriot
04-01-2010, 6:52 PM
I used to believe that voluntaring DNA would help clear your name but it doesnt and the police cant be trusted with it.

Many rape and sexual assualt cases dont involve DNA anyway.

BigBamBoo
04-01-2010, 6:55 PM
Sad Sad Sad, on the contrary, if I was being accused of rape, and that was the only way to clear my name...TAKE IT!

If YOUR the primary suspect...in custody...and your attorney advices it...and it will 100% clear you...then thats one thing.

The police knocking on your door about a crime down the road from you and asking to be a "good neighbor" and "clear yourself" of a crime you had no part in is a BIG difference.

Thats just my opinion....I would have to tell them to stop messing around harassing innocent people and get to work solving the crime at hand as I was closing the door.

Take care,Stan

nn3453
04-01-2010, 7:01 PM
Thats just my opinion....I would have to tell them to stop messing around harassing innocent people and get to work solving the crime at hand as I was closing the door.


It is possible for LE to peek in and claim they have probable cause if you open the door. No warrant? Talk from outside the door. The door stays shut.

Ding126
04-01-2010, 7:05 PM
I would do it for a box of ammo, a CCW and a MP5...otherwise NO

Only to clear my name in a murder or........... case

pbchief2
04-01-2010, 7:09 PM
When I mailed back the census form I used a damp sponge to seal the envelope. A little :TFH: maybe, but then why should I give them anymore info than I need to?

Call me paranoid but I did the same thing.

CCWFacts
04-01-2010, 7:16 PM
Sad Sad Sad, on the contrary, if I was being accused of rape, and that was the only way to clear my name...TAKE IT!

It's a mistake to consent to a search especially if you are accused of rape or a serious crime. In those cases the police have a lot of pressure to get a conviction. Sometimes, any conviction will do.

By consenting to search, you destroy the possibility of having your DNA evidence thrown out for an unacceptable search. "Guilty as sin" criminals have gotten off in some cases because the search was improper. Even if you are innocent you want to preserve every legal defense you can possibly have.

As much as we would like to think the justice system would never throw its might at an innocent person, it can and does. And you would hope that modern crime labs in the US are impartial and scientific. They are not. Unfortunately many of them have all kinds of crazy problems (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/01/BA3I1COB2O.DTL&tsp=1), and yet they are believed as being "objectively true". If you're innocent, a crime lab screw-up can destroy your life. So you want to preserve your option of challenging the search.

And if you are innocent it makes it harder for them to find a justification for a search, so this is really important.

Innocent people who "help" the police by consenting to a search might end up "helping" the police by letting the police mark the case as "closed" even when it is not.

AndrewMendez
04-01-2010, 7:50 PM
You guys are great! Of course only with the consent of an attorney would I give up my DNA.

greyfell
04-01-2010, 9:11 PM
As much as we would like to think the justice system would never throw its might at an innocent person, it can and does.

And if you are innocent it makes it harder for them to find a justification for a search, so this is really important.

Innocent people who "help" the police by consenting to a search might end up "helping" the police by letting the police mark the case as "closed" even when it is not.

Along these lines, it might be worthwhile to point people to an old thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=101229

However, the link pointed to in that thread is old. Here is a Youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6782880968FCBF64&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL It is 8 segments, 7 of which are 6-1/2 minutes long (remember this is a classroom lecture, so 45 minutes long). One nit to pick is that,after the first segment, the audio and the video are not in sync. Still, a very good discussion of our 5th Amendment right, which is to PROTECT the innocent. He gives equal time to a police detective, who supports what he says.

Wild Squid
04-01-2010, 9:53 PM
You've got to be really stupid to give your DNA up like that. Don't know if the cops still do this, but when I was a kid in elementary school they would always try to get the parents to have their kids fingerprinted. They say it's for their own protection, and will help them find a missing kid. In reality it's to find their kids if they grow up to be criminals and a fingerprint is left at a crime scene. I have very, umm, conflicting feelings about that kind of deception. And that's what the government is all about, deception.

bwiese
04-01-2010, 9:58 PM
The recent San Francisco drug lab case goes to show what happens with gov't samples of, well, anything.

What happens when a gov't employee takes yoru DNA data and sells it to an data broker who tests it for genetic diseases and then sells the results to insurance cos?

Sorry, no volunteering for me, even if a cloud of suspicion hangs over my head.

Don't know if the cops still do this, but when I was a kid in elementary school they would always
try to get the parents to have their kids fingerprinted. They say it's for their own protection, and will help them find
a missing kid. In reality it's to find their kids if they grow up to be criminals and a fingerprint is left at a crime scene.



Yep, the only real use for that fingerprint is if the kid is dead - it sure as hell won't help find the kid.

welchy
04-01-2010, 10:13 PM
When I mailed back the census form I used a damp sponge to seal the envelope. A little :TFH: maybe, but then why should I give them anymore info than I need to?

I thought I was the only one.

Oh, and I would never voluntarily give up a DNA sample. Unless it was orally.

CCWFacts
04-01-2010, 10:59 PM
The recent San Francisco drug lab case goes to show what happens with gov't samples of, well, anything.
Sorry, no volunteering for me, even if a cloud of suspicion hangs over my head.

Absolutely. The recent SF drug lab case shows that even when the evidence wasn't going up that lady's nose, they were so sloppy it could not be considered science.

They had a workload of more than 15 samples to process per day. Sorry, there is no way to have precise handling of samples and careful and thoughtful analysis of more than 15 samples per day. That's about half an hour per sample.

And it gets even worse. Their method for determining if some white powder is coke was to use some dye and look at the crystals under a microscope. That's a joke, that's not science. That certainly isn't proof of anything.

The only scientific way to do the proof would be to use real chemical tests, and also always use control samples, and the evaluator doesn't ever know if a given sample is the real sample or a control sample. Any false positives should be a major issue. But they never do that type of analysis, meaning their work is little better than using a dowsing rod.

If you're innocent, the last thing you want is to rely on a crime lab to save you. You want to make sure you have every legal defense you can get.

maverickmage
04-01-2010, 11:29 PM
I don't really see what the big deal is. If you were suspected of a crime and they have the criminal's fingerprints, wouldn't you give them your fingerprints to clear your name? Seems to be the same deal. It's not like they're going to use it to clone little mutant-zombie-soldiers. All they would probably do is to run it through a gel and look for a match.

elSquid
04-02-2010, 12:04 AM
I don't really see what the big deal is. If you were suspected of a crime and they have the criminal's fingerprints, wouldn't you give them your fingerprints to clear your name? Seems to be the same deal. It's not like they're going to use it to clone little mutant-zombie-soldiers. All they would probably do is to run it through a gel and look for a match.

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/supct/cert/08%E2%80%931065

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1934836,00.html

This recently went to the Supreme Court. The question was: if a prosecutor who knowingly procures false testimony during a criminal investigation and introduces such at a trial can be sued in civil court. Two innocent men went to prison because the prosecution was apparently looking for a quick close to a very visible case.

Put me in the "talk to my lawyer" camp.

-- Michael

2Cute2Shoot
04-02-2010, 12:12 AM
I don't understand what's wrong with giving DNA to the police? One time stupid me somehow called 911 in the middle of the night (was trying to dial someone's number). Almost an hour later (1am) the police showed up at my house and woke up my parents, saying there was a 911 call, then the operator couldn't get thru to see that it was a mistake. The officers asked if they could search the house. We said 'OK' and they went into every room. I think giving DNA is like us allowing them to look thru our house.

If there is a missing girl or any kind of crime, why wouldn't you want to do everything you can to help the police. That might be removing yourself as a suspect. If they do something wrong with your DNA, that is a separate crime, but you should still cooperate with them, right?

juicemansam
04-02-2010, 12:17 AM
I've often talked about (not here) how government can't really do certain things, such as collect data on people, but it's OK for the private sector do to so. Then it's perfectly fine for government to buy access to that data. How much of our DNA has already been processed for "scientific" purposes when we are born and stored in the private sector, only to be aggregated to a collection of databases ready for access to any buyer.

An interesting documentary about this is called Shadow Government. :TFH:

elSquid
04-02-2010, 12:26 AM
I've often talked about (not here) how government can't really do certain things, such as collect data on people, but it's OK for the private sector do to so. Then it's perfectly fine for government to buy access to that data. How much of our DNA has already been processed for "scientific" purposes when we are born and stored in the private sector, only to be aggregated to a collection of databases ready for access to any buyer.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/bush-concerned-successor-might-revoke-telco-spy-immunity/

*sigh*

-- Michael

juicemansam
04-02-2010, 12:31 AM
I don't understand what's wrong with giving DNA to the police? One time stupid me somehow called 911 in the middle of the night (was trying to dial someone's number). Almost an hour later (1am) the police showed up at my house and woke up my parents, saying there was a 911 call, then the operator couldn't get thru to see that it was a mistake. The officers asked if they could search the house. We said 'OK' and they went into every room. I think giving DNA is like us allowing them to look thru our house.

If there is a missing girl or any kind of crime, why wouldn't you want to do everything you can to help the police. That might be removing yourself as a suspect. If they do something wrong with your DNA, that is a separate crime, but you should still cooperate with them, right?
The problem with giving consent to law enforcement is that they are agents of a system. That system, by it's nature, is not human nor does it act like one (ie capable of sympathy). LE's only concern is with enforcement of laws, any and all laws. If you stand back and observe, laws are there to punish and limit, not permit or guide. Sure one can be innocent until proven guilty, but you'll be in ruin afterwards, pretty much no matter the outcome. If LE acted like, and actually was, peace officers, things would be very different. Of course there are exceptions, but I won't hold my breath for an example. Oh, and I'm not anti-LE; I've thought about joining the LE (SD, not PD), but it's incompatible with what I feel and believe, and what I observe.

One should question authority, always.

JDay
04-02-2010, 1:32 AM
I used to believe that voluntaring DNA would help clear your name but it doesnt and the police cant be trusted with it.

Many rape and sexual assualt cases dont involve DNA anyway.

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ALSystems
04-02-2010, 6:24 AM
You've got to be really stupid to give your DNA up like that. Don't know if the cops still do this, but when I was a kid in elementary school they would always try to get the parents to have their kids fingerprinted. They say it's for their own protection, and will help them find a missing kid. In reality it's to find their kids if they grow up to be criminals and a fingerprint is left at a crime scene. I have very, umm, conflicting feelings about that kind of deception. And that's what the government is all about, deception.
I remember the police showing up at my son's elementary school trying to get the parents to get their children fingerprinted and leave hair samples (DNA). They also said it was to help find missing children and tried to make you feel guilty if you didn't.

I didn't realize the deceptive purpose but I never agreed. I did keep a hair sample myself for a number of years though just in case.

TonyM
04-02-2010, 6:29 AM
When I mailed back the census form I used a damp sponge to seal the envelope. A little :TFH: maybe, but then why should I give them anymore info than I need to?

Call me paranoid but I did the same thing.

I thought I was the only one.

Oh, and I would never voluntarily give up a DNA sample. Unless it was orally.

You guys do know that they have stamps that are self adhesive, right? :)

I never use conventional stamps anymore, a shipping program and a label printer work much better for me, I never run out.

DNA? Better have a court order... I've watched C.S.I. before .. :TFH: :p

welchy
04-02-2010, 7:45 AM
We are not talking about stamps. We are talking about the envelope. You obviously did not send in your census form.

CCWFacts
04-02-2010, 7:49 AM
I don't understand what's wrong with giving DNA to the police?

What if you give them the DNA evidence, they take it to the crime lab, and the result comes back that it's a match and they have evidence that you're guilty? Their crime labs are really sloppy. SF has just closed its crime lab because of illegal activities by lab employees and sloppiness.

If there is a missing girl or any kind of crime, why wouldn't you want to do everything you can to help the police.

No. Voluntarily giving police DNA does not help them. All it does is help them be lazy. They should be doing police work to investigate the crime, rather than relying on questionable police labs to solve it for them.

Especially if it's a high-profile case like a missing girl, where the police are under a lot of pressure to get the case solved, you do not want to do anything that would remove a possible legal defense. Consenting to search or give up DNA evidence removes a significant legal defense you would otherwise have.

Looking at it another way, you should always ask, "what am I getting out of this deal?"

It's pretty simple:

If you consent to the search, you give up:


You're throwing away a powerful legal defense, which you might need, even if you are factually innocent
You're giving the police a piece of evidence that could be used against you, even if you are factually innocent


What do you gain from that?


Nothing.


It's an easy decision to make. If they really have evidence that you might have committed a crime, they will have to use that to get a warrant to search.

Serpentine
04-02-2010, 7:55 AM
Health Care Reform = Government access to your medical records = they'll have everyone's DNA in short order. And that's not all. They'll have a database of your blood test results, medications, psych visits, etc.

You can't process a medical claim without determining if it's a "covered benefit." You can't determine "covered benefit" without access to medical history. Now throw in the "crackdown" on overcharging MD's. That crackdown can only be determined by reviewing your personal medical history with these suspected doctors.

Wait till we see the sign-up forms on this new Health care reform. It will have you sign a medical records release form.





.

a1c
04-02-2010, 8:06 AM
Health Care Reform = Government access to your medical records = they'll have everyone's DNA in short order. And that's not all. They'll have a database of your blood test results, medications, psych visits, etc.

I don't think so. Nothing in the current bill provides for this kind of thing. Not even Medicare tracks all those things, and that's a government single payer system.

xxsleepyxx
04-02-2010, 8:24 AM
I would give the cops a nice amount of my DNA anytime.

Serpentine
04-02-2010, 8:28 AM
I don't think so. Nothing in the current bill provides for this kind of thing. Not even Medicare tracks all those things, and that's a government single payer system.

Medicare doesn't process claims, they farm it out to private insurers. When a doctor bills Medicare, that itemized bill (and reports) becomes part of your medical history.

I don't think the actual sign-up processes have been determined yet. If it doesn't include access to medical history the doctors could have a field day by charging for false visits, false tests, false procedures, etc.

I used to work in a unit that tracked and identified these fraudulent over-billings. Believe me, it was a unit of 30 persons and we were busy all the time. This was just for Los Angeles County alone.


As for "no public option," well then who is going to be paying for the 12-30M undocumented persons? Because no one will be refused health care, this will be the "public option."



.

Falstaff
04-02-2010, 8:58 AM
In Austin TX Chief Art "The Vampire" Acevedo (Formerly a CHP officer BTW) is having questionably "trained" police take blood samples at the scene of every suspected DUI stop. With or WITHOUT permission.

Sniper3142
04-02-2010, 9:20 AM
I don't understand what's wrong with giving DNA to the police? One time stupid me somehow called 911 in the middle of the night (was trying to dial someone's number). Almost an hour later (1am) the police showed up at my house and woke up my parents, saying there was a 911 call, then the operator couldn't get thru to see that it was a mistake. The officers asked if they could search the house. We said 'OK' and they went into every room. I think giving DNA is like us allowing them to look thru our house.

If there is a missing girl or any kind of crime, why wouldn't you want to do everything you can to help the police. That might be removing yourself as a suspect. If they do something wrong with your DNA, that is a separate crime, but you should still cooperate with them, right?

WRONG.

Giving the police or any LEA a sample of your DNA can only HURT you in the long run.

Please remeber, the police are NOT there to HELP you. They are trying to close a case and could care less about your rights or freedoms. It is the same reasoning behind not granting them permission to search your vehilce or home without a warrant.

Tell them to either "Talk to my Hand" or "Talk to my Lawyer".

bodger
04-02-2010, 9:29 AM
I would bet that anyone who refused to give the Raleigh cops their DNA got put on a "person of interest" list.

Nobody gets my DNA without a court order unless an attorney I trust advised me that it would help me. But giving it up voluntarily to cops who know on my door? Fuggeddaboudit.

halifax
04-02-2010, 9:32 AM
WRONG.

Giving the police or any LEA a sample of your DNA can only HURT you in the long run.

Please remeber, the police are NOT there to HELP you. They are trying to close a case and could care less about your rights or freedoms. It is the same reasoning behind not granting them permission to search your vehilce or home without a warrant.

Tell them to either "Talk to my Hand" or "Talk to my Lawyer".

Wouldn't it also hurt any blood relative since they could get partial matches and go after your family members?

OlderThanDirt
04-02-2010, 10:08 AM
When I mailed back the census form I used a damp sponge to seal the envelope. A little :TFH: maybe, but then why should I give them anymore info than I need to?

I had my dog lick the envelope. That should confuse them for awhile.

bomb_on_bus
04-02-2010, 10:20 AM
not unless it would be used in order to clear me from some sort of wrong doing.

that is private information just like anything else and who is to say that the DNA will stay with the police and not be shared with any other branch or office.

and using the whole pitch that it helps the law and citizens is a bunch of FUD. they have plenty of info about the population as it is. last thing i want is a bunch of people combing through my DNA for no apparent reason.

Hogxtz
04-02-2010, 10:26 AM
The North Carolina AG (and other states) have been trying to build huge DNA databases of not just convicted criminals, but also keeping the DNA of anyone suspected for anything, even if they are later found innocent:
http://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org/?q=proposal-expand-ncs-dna-database

That is exactly what Ca is doing. Everytime anybody comes to jail on ANY suspected felony, including any felony conviction in their past no matter how far back, I am required to take a dna saliva sample from them. The scary thing though is the law was written in such a way that if a person refuses to give a saliva sample we have the authority to use reasonable force to get the sample, and the subject gets charged with a new misd. crime.

Thank god no body has refused to do it.

I don't like this whole dna thing either, however it has cleared a lot of innocent men off death row.

2Cute2Shoot
04-02-2010, 10:26 AM
WRONG.

Giving the police or any LEA a sample of your DNA can only HURT you in the long run.

Please remeber, the police are NOT there to HELP you. They are trying to close a case and could care less about your rights or freedoms. It is the same reasoning behind not granting them permission to search your vehilce or home without a warrant.

Tell them to either "Talk to my Hand" or "Talk to my Lawyer".

Sniper, that is SO offensive! I hope to be in law enforcement some day, and not for one second do I think that police don't care about my rights & freedoms. There have been SOOO many nice policemen (I think there are no female police on calguns :( ) who have given me advice about my future career & given me contacts to call in their depts :) I think it's an offense to all of them to say here on Calguns that police are not there to help you, or that they are all lazy or that they don't care about your rights :mad:

2Cute2Shoot
04-02-2010, 10:34 AM
What if you give them the DNA evidence, they take it to the crime lab, and the result comes back that it's a match and they have evidence that you're guilty? Their crime labs are really sloppy. SF has just closed its crime lab because of illegal activities by lab employees and sloppiness.



No. Voluntarily giving police DNA does not help them. All it does is help them be lazy. They should be doing police work to investigate the crime, rather than relying on questionable police labs to solve it for them.

Especially if it's a high-profile case like a missing girl, where the police are under a lot of pressure to get the case solved, you do not want to do anything that would remove a possible legal defense. Consenting to search or give up DNA evidence removes a significant legal defense you would otherwise have.

Looking at it another way, you should always ask, "what am I getting out of this deal?"

It's pretty simple:

If you consent to the search, you give up:


You're throwing away a powerful legal defense, which you might need, even if you are factually innocent
You're giving the police a piece of evidence that could be used against you, even if you are factually innocent


What do you gain from that?


Nothing.


It's an easy decision to make. If they really have evidence that you might have committed a crime, they will have to use that to get a warrant to search.

What about the victims of crimes? If a girl went missing and they thought she was kidnapped by another girl from my school who was white, 5' 3" and 18 y/o, I wouldn't want them wasting 1 second looking at me, when they could be getting closer to finding her. I would give DNA right away.

It sounds like a lot of you would refuse to say where you were during the crime, refuse to help in any way... because you think the police are bad. because you don't believe in our American system.

I thought I would find more people on Calguns who would always do the right thing, even if it meant risking themselves. I wasn't raised to say "I don't care about the victim...the missing child or catching the rapist on the loose... I'm more worried that the police are stupid... that they might make a mistake if I cooperate with them at all...that they don't respect my rights, so I'll slow down their investigation." That's not the kind of community I ever want to live in.

RangemasterP226
04-02-2010, 10:38 AM
It is possible for LE to peek in and claim they have probable cause if you open the door. No warrant? Talk from outside the door. The door stays shut.


WOW, you are one paraniod mofo

RangemasterP226
04-02-2010, 10:42 AM
I don't understand what's wrong with giving DNA to the police? One time stupid me somehow called 911 in the middle of the night (was trying to dial someone's number). Almost an hour later (1am) the police showed up at my house and woke up my parents, saying there was a 911 call, then the operator couldn't get thru to see that it was a mistake. The officers asked if they could search the house. We said 'OK' and they went into every room. I think giving DNA is like us allowing them to look thru our house.

If there is a missing girl or any kind of crime, why wouldn't you want to do everything you can to help the police. That might be removing yourself as a suspect. If they do something wrong with your DNA, that is a separate crime, but you should still cooperate with them, right?



How dare you make sense and think logically in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2Cute2Shoot
04-02-2010, 10:43 AM
How dare you make sense and think logically in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks :)

center_x
04-02-2010, 10:46 AM
I dont mind given my DNA if there is a reason for it. I dont plan on screwing up and having LE coming to get me, so I have no worries.

More than likely, if LE needs the my blood evidence, they can easily get a search warrant.

My main concern would be, how would LE keep my DNA record safe?

xrMike
04-02-2010, 10:56 AM
Oh, and I would never voluntarily give up a DNA sample. Unless it was orally.You mean like a cheek swab? Oh wait, you're talking about something else, aren't you? ;)

Draankol
04-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Not voluntarily, but in my case and for many others here, the feds already have my DNA. They took DNA samples from all of us in boot camp when I went through in the early 90s.

They said it would enable them to identify "parts" left on the battle field. Sounds yummy, doesn't it? Got to love Ground Combat jobs!

M1A Rifleman
04-02-2010, 11:15 AM
When I mailed back the census form I used a damp sponge to seal the envelope. A little :TFH: maybe, but then why should I give them anymore info than I need to?

Did you touch the form with gloved hands? Overwise, they have your prints.:43:

elSquid
04-02-2010, 11:23 AM
because you think the police are bad. because you don't believe in our American system.


That's a logical fallacy.

I believe in this country and in the legal system. I also believe that we have 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment rights for a reason.

-- Michael

bigcalidave
04-02-2010, 11:35 AM
Sniper, that is SO offensive! I hope to be in law enforcement some day, and not for one second do I think that police don't care about my rights & freedoms. There have been SOOO many nice policemen (I think there are no female police on calguns :( ) who have given me advice about my future career & given me contacts to call in their depts :) I think it's an offense to all of them to say here on Calguns that police are not there to help you, or that they are all lazy or that they don't care about your rights :mad:

2Cute, not trying to be offensive but you're being VERY naive with this statement. Yes, the police officers you (an 18 yr old girl with the SN 2cute) meet and talk to about a career in LE are being friendly.

The unfortunate truth is EXACTLY what sniper said. They are working to close a case. They only enter a situation with the attitude that no matter what they just want to go home at night. There are good cops and bad cops, absolutely, but they have a job to do. It is routine for them to try and skip past your rights, because if everyone knew they can't search your house without a warrant OR YOUR PERMISSION, and if everyone asked for a lawyer immediately on any contact, they wouldn't be able to solve many crimes. They will trick you, lie to you, and mislead you, as part of the investigation.
To stay out of harms way, innocent or guilty, you must be suspicious and paranoid about what you say, who you say it to, and what you offer up without a court order. False arrests happen, accidental felonies happen (especially in CA), and incorrect identifications happen.

Maybe you haven't been in the car that gets a full felony stop, guns drawn, lots of screaming and yelling, full searches without consent, etc etc, only to find out that they saw a few kids in a car similar to one used in a bank robbery on the other side of the bay.... And then they don't even apologize.

BillCA
04-02-2010, 11:48 AM
I had my dog lick the envelope. That should confuse them for awhile.

+1 ... only it was my cat. :p

BigBamBoo
04-02-2010, 12:14 PM
Oh to be so young again. When the world was a happy place. When everyone was your friend.

Hello...your young and cute. 99% of the police you are going to come in contact with are going to be "friendly" towards you. My wife gets out of traffic tickets all the time with a pouty lip...lots of but,but, officer...etc.
Accept a few date offers from a few of those nice cops. Then report back on your opinion.

I had a long term relationship with a female cop...one of my best friends is retired cop...my wife works for the court system...so please do not be overly offended when I and others tell you about "the real world". The legal system is NOT your friend.

If and when you become a LEO...please come back in 10 years of being on the job and tell us all how you and your fellow officers go out of your way to help the good citizens and how much mutual respect is shared by all.

Again...oh to be young again.

Take care,Stan


Sniper, that is SO offensive! I hope to be in law enforcement some day, and not for one second do I think that police don't care about my rights & freedoms. There have been SOOO many nice policemen (I think there are no female police on calguns :( ) who have given me advice about my future career & given me contacts to call in their depts :) I think it's an offense to all of them to say here on Calguns that police are not there to help you, or that they are all lazy or that they don't care about your rights :mad:

BillCA
04-02-2010, 12:29 PM
What about the victims of crimes? If a girl went missing and they thought she was kidnapped by another girl from my school who was white, 5' 3" and 18 y/o, I wouldn't want them wasting 1 second looking at me, when they could be getting closer to finding her. I would give DNA right away.

It sounds like a lot of you would refuse to say where you were during the crime, refuse to help in any way... because you think the police are bad. because you don't believe in our American system.

I thought I would find more people on Calguns who would always do the right thing, even if it meant risking themselves. I wasn't raised to say "I don't care about the victim...the missing child or catching the rapist on the loose... I'm more worried that the police are stupid... that they might make a mistake if I cooperate with them at all...that they don't respect my rights, so I'll slow down their investigation." That's not the kind of community I ever want to live in.

2Cute,
First, best of luck to you on your future career.

Second, police asking you to give a sample of DNA to "exclude yourself and help the investigation" is a backwards concept. Let's put it in a different light.

Let's suppose police have a kidnapping/rape that occurs a block or two away from you. Now, police later come knock on your door. They tell you that they're investigating this 207/261 crime and ... instead of asking you if you have any information they...

Ask you where you were when the crime happened.
Ask if you knew the victim, the victim's family or any of the victim's friends.
Ask if you own a red shirt, blouse or pullover top. Can we see it?
Want to know where your vehicle is.
Ask to see your appointment book for that week.
Want to come in and "check" your room just so they can eliminate you.
See, this is backwards. With no evidence connecting you to the crime, the police want to obtain useful information about you. At least you still have the 4th and 5th Amendment rights to require a warrant and to zip your lip.

Now, if the police determine that the perpetrator was actually a young woman about 5'3" with a similar build and hair color to yours, THEN they'd have a reason to at least ask you if you knew anything about the crime. If they had sufficient evidence to connect YOU (as opposed to some other 5'3" female of a similarly vague description) to the crime, they could obtain a search warrant.

Realize also that high-profile cases can become politicized very quickly. If the mayor is up for re-election and crime is an issue, an unsolved high-profile case hurts him. So he pressures the Chief for action. Chief, in turn, pressures his detectives to resolve the case. The detectives will latch on to the first person against whom they can build even the thinnest of cases upon.

The major problem with DNA evidence is that is is touted to the lay person -- jurors & public -- as proof positive of either innocence or guilt. And it can possibly be such, but only if the proper lab procedures and safeguards are in place. A lab's sloopy work can cross-contaminate the results, giving a false-positive match and you find yourself behind bars.

I might use DNA to prove my innocence after being charged with a crime, but not beforehand... and certainly not to simply make LE's job easier.

adamsreeftank
04-02-2010, 12:41 PM
If they come knocking on your door asking for a DNA sample to "eliminate" you, there are two logical possibilites:

They have absolutely no clues and are shooting in the dark bothering people with no connection to the case.

There is some reason they are knocking on your door, and are trying to build a case against you.