Anybody use a Kel Tec SU 16 for 3gun

[midvalleyshooter]

Does anyone use a Kel Tec SU 16 for 3 gun competition? What would be the pros and cons?

Keith

[shooterx10]

I have not personally witnessed a 3-gun competitor with a SU-16 yet, but it might do well at close range targets, but I'm not sure about targets greater than 50 yards?

What are the typical ranges that the 3-gun competitors shoot at your range?

I've always wondered if the optic mounting rail on top if the receiver is strong enough to hold an optic without loss of zero?

Anybody want to chime in?

[3GunFunShooter]

I know several guys have bought them for 3 gun local matches, but have
not used them in a match yet. For a club gun I think it would be a decent gun to shoot, 50-150 yards. I just do not know how they will hold up in the long haul, like a Ruger Mini 14. Beretta has a new 223 that takes AR mags
coming out. Looks like a winner.

[MaceWindu]

Kel-Tec's do not hold up under the duress of many strings of fire...

Mace

[midvalleyshooter]

Mace said:

Kel-Tec's do not hold up under the duress of many strings of fire...

Mace


Hi Mace,

OK,

Could you describe how you know the SU 16 will not hold up to the rigors of 3gun competition?

Thanks,
Keith

[3GunFunShooter]

MidValleyShooter,
Are you going to use the Kel-Tec for local club match,
or are you going to use it to shoot at major 3 gun matches?
For local club, IDPA, small USPSA club matches, the
Kel-Tec should be ok. Some matches have over 30 rounds at targets from 10 yards to 300 yards, on one stage.
Stock Mini 14 and Kel-Tec have thin barrels and once heated up, your accuracy drops. I use a .750 in barrel on
my custom mini and it will hit 10" plates at 325 yds.
My stock mini would not
With 3 gun, to run with the big dogs, you have to spend the money. But if you want to just go out and have a good time you can use anything. I started with a stock Glock, Remington 870, and a stock Mini 14.
Just get out and shoot some matches and see what works for you.

[shooterx10]

3GunFunShooter,

If your Glock is a .45ACP and you shot a M1A (without optics), you can shoot Iron Man division in the USPSA. But then, you'll be shooting with iron sights only. :o

Does IDPA have 3-gun? I poked around their website and came up with nothing, unless I'm not looking at the right places.

[midvalleyshooter]

I shoot these games for the fun of it:) I don't plan on shooting the larger shoots, just a few local type 3 gun type shoots.

The IDPA style 3 gun shoots are renegade matches. IDPA does not currently have 3 gun rules, divisions etc.

Thanks for the input guys:)
Keith

[MaceWindu]

Mace said:

Kel-Tec's do not hold up under the duress of many strings of fire...

Mace


Hi Mace,

OK,

Could you describe how you know the SU 16 will not hold up to the rigors of 3gun competition?

Thanks,
Keith

Keith,

I know because in every Carbine class I have been to, they eventully go Tango Uniform. They heat up and the front sight falls off. The pins begin to ride out of the platform and it cannot hold up to the duress of hundreds of rounds down range at a time.

This is NOT a rumor because I have been there and seen it with my own eyes.

Mace

[midvalleyshooter]

Shooterx10 - I will find out how optics hold up on the Kel Tec's plastic rail as I plan to mount a Simmons 1.5 to 5 prodiamond scope on it. Also the barrel is thicker on the newer C and CA model. About midway between a standard AR barrel and a Hbar. They sell rings they say are SU 16 specific:
http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_accessories.htm

Mace - Kel Tec has made the SU 16 for a couple of years. The A and B models all have a plastic front sight mounted out at the end of the barrel along with the thinner barrel. The C and CA model have a metal sight that is part of the gas block. I have read a report of the extractor breaking in addition to yours, so I will get a spare and I will keep a close eye on the pins and such. Heres a pic of a mildly tricked up CA model over on the KTOG site:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1137044804

Gentlemen, you may be right. I plan to find out:)

Keith

[RW Dunn]

Keith,

I know because in every Carbine class I have been to, they eventully go Tango Uniform. They heat up and the front sight falls off. The pins begin to ride out of the platform and it cannot hold up to the duress of hundreds of rounds down range at a time.

This is NOT a rumor because I have been there and seen it with my own eyes.

MaceHe's right cause that was my kel-tec that went tango.Sight came off one day after heating up the barrel,wore out the ejector the 3rd day into training,went straight up tango on the forth day towards the very end of class.But thats not to say they couldnt, but that was after 2500 rds in 4 days with normal cleaning and oiling. The AR more reliable, my .02

[3GunFunShooter]

shooterx10;
My eyes are too bad to shoot Iron Man. I have Grand, and a S&W 1911, and
my 870. Maybe at a local match. But I really like & need, the scope on my Mini 14. I use the local matches as practice, since I don't get the needed time at the range.
There are some local clubs IDPA that have 3 gun matches. The Modesto IDPA
has a yearly match.
El Dorado Rod & Gun has a IDPA club. 100 yard max on rifle. (not formal IDPA) 3 gun match is set for April 29th or 30th. They try to have 2 matches a year. Sac Valley IDPA, usually has (not always, depending on time and interest) a shotgun side match after the regular match on the 1st Sunday of the month. 2-3 stages.
Most all IDPA 3 gun matches have 10 round limits on rifle, no major or minor
with rifle, and shotguns can only be loaded to a set round count, 6-7 to keep it on a level playing field. Some shooters have even used a lever action 30-30
and a 45-70. Not as much pressure at IDPA, but still lots of fun.

[midvalleyshooter]

Hey RW Dunn, thanks for replying,

Could I trouble you to elaborate on your Kel Tec's problems? Did the extractor break or come loose? Which pins came loose? Have you got it fixed yet? Here is the exploded parts diagram from the Kel Tec web site, could you refer to the parts on it please?

http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_parts.htm

Shooterx10, thanks for the info and I will check those shoots out. Where is El Dorado Rod & Gun? Do they have a web site? How do I get more info on the April match?

Thanks guys,
Keith

[RW Dunn]

1.Ejector(115) lip broke, not extractor me bad,maybe from bad material,replaced with high dollar Ejector 2.take(156) down pin wore lose and needed to be tape to keep it from folding up on me and looseing it all together.3.front sight completely fell off after 3 -30rd during a australian peel with 4 other shooters so about 90 rds less than 4-5mins but could of started to heat up and worked loose during other peels and finaly came off.The SU-16 is great gun and will have improvement as time goes,but it's not a weapon i would trust in a sustained running gun battle.But other than that its a awesome trunk,home protection weapon. But that my .02 cents

[midvalleyshooter]

Thanks RW......................K

[Dont Tread on Me]

I shoot 3 gun with a SU16CA and a Eotech. I do fine, especially on "assult" stages that are 0 - 50 yards.

[MaceWindu]

I shoot 3 gun with a SU16CA and a Eotech. I do fine, especially on "assult" stages that are 0 - 50 yards.

I don't doubt this. But, I would lke to see 1800 rounds in (2) days WITHOUT a failure first...

Mace

[MrTuffPaws]

Keith,

I know because in every Carbine class I have been to, they eventully go Tango Uniform. They heat up and the front sight falls off. The pins begin to ride out of the platform and it cannot hold up to the duress of hundreds of rounds down range at a time.

This is NOT a rumor because I have been there and seen it with my own eyes.

Mace


Hmmm, I have seen a few 100 rounds go through them at a local range pretty fast and no damage. I have also seen vids of some guy torture testing a SU16-C and had no issues. Not to mention the people at the kel-tec forums not bringing this up. I think you are BSing.

[RW Dunn]

Hmmm, I have seen a few 100 rounds go through them at a local range pretty fast and no damage. I have also seen vids of some guy torture testing a SU16-C and had no issues. Not to mention the people at the kel-tec forums not bringing this up. I think you are BSing.
LOL ya a couple of hundred rds no problem,these people ever put 2500RDs in 4 days through them,No.Fun gun at most, maybe small fire fight at most,all out day long running gun battle maybe,something i would take to a battle, never. But for a 3 gun maybe. As for an EO had one on it couldnt get it adjust far enough down, on at 25 yrs, 50 yrs 6inches low, 75 yrds 12 inchs below, 100 yrds for get it. the perm rail system allows for no shimming of the rail.Maybe a aimpoint or something else with more rise to it would work.Don't get me wrong i love my Su-16 and would never sell it,i own 2 ARs 1 FAb-10 and have owned AKS(ak-47)Daewoo K1 and many other AWs.Its a fun gun and do recommend them for weekend plinking and home protection or what ever.They do after all take 30 rds can't beat that.:D

[RW Dunn]

Shooterx10 - I will find out how optics hold up on the Kel Tec's plastic rail as I plan to mount a Simmons 1.5 to 5 prodiamond scope on it. Also the barrel is thicker on the newer C and CA model. About midway between a standard AR barrel and a Hbar. They sell rings they say are SU 16 specific:
http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_accessories.htm

Mace - Kel Tec has made the SU 16 for a couple of years. The A and B models all have a plastic front sight mounted out at the end of the barrel along with the thinner barrel. The C and CA model have a metal sight that is part of the gas block. I have read a report of the extractor breaking in addition to yours, so I will get a spare and I will keep a close eye on the pins and such. Heres a pic of a mildly tricked up CA model over on the KTOG site:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1137044804ni ce midvalley, their good rifles

Gentlemen, you may be right. I plan to find out:)

Keithnice midvalley, their good rifles.

[Stanze]

Heres a pic of a mildly tricked up CA model over on the KTOG site:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1137044804



The location of that poster is CA, that SU-16CA has a forward pistol pistol, a SB-23 violation.:eek:

[MaceWindu]

Hmmm, I have seen a few 100 rounds go through them at a local range pretty fast and no damage. I have also seen vids of some guy torture testing a SU16-C and had no issues. Not to mention the people at the kel-tec forums not bringing this up. I think you are BSing.

Know your facts BEFORE you contradict what I SAW...It was RW's platform and I WAS THERE. Were you? ...Short answer?: NO.

I give RW credit because he kept it in the fight until it just quit on him. I use and RUN my platforms HARD...

Do you?

Mace

[Dont Tread on Me]

My comments are for running a SU16CA thorugh a one day 3gun match. Round count about 200 and targets from 0 to 200 yards.

0-50 I'm competative with ARs and much faster than I am with a M1A (heavy gun). On the 200 yard stages the SU16 gest good body shots for me but the AR and M1A guys can take the hostage head shots.

I find the SU16 much easier to operate under stress than a mini-14. Mag changes and going on safe for transitions are much simpler for me. The Keltec sling kit also puts the rifle in a nice position for cross body carry.

I'd sooner have an AR but mine are all top loaders right now. Just don't be put off from competing with a SU16. It is a fun little gun that won't break the bank.

[midvalleyshooter]

Thanks ca brit 05. Sounds like the SU 16 CA I bought is going to be a fun gun to shoot:) I will be using it for plinking and some local 3 gun matches. I especially like the lifetime warranty Kel Tec offers.

DVC,
Keith

[slamfire]

Ive seen two in 3 gun competition lots of failures to extract

[Dont Tread on Me]

I have a feeling Slamfire was at the same competition as me today. I had lots of failures to extract, it was fustrating as hell and killed my score.

I found the following post on the keltec forum

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1139716801

Looks like this is a known problem and I need to replace my exstractor. Will post the results.

EDIT: called keltic this morning and new extractor is on its way. Customer service was excellent. I'll post if this fixes the problem.

[Mud]

Sorry for butting in, I saw Ca Brit's SU 16 do a good job at the 3-gun Match a month or so ago. Now that I gave you some Praise Ca Brit, where did you guys shoot the 3-gun on Sunday? :p

[Dont Tread on Me]

Mud - it was a tactical rifle match up at Chabot. The matches there are so much fun.

How is you CA legal build comming along? I was impressed when I saw it a couple of weeks back.

[Mud]

I'm going to try it in the April 2nd Carbine Match, hope to see you there.

[kantstudien]

Does the SU-16CA use an AR-15 bolt or extractor? Or is it all proprietary?

[blacklisted]

Does the SU-16CA use an AR-15 bolt or extractor? Or is it all proprietary?

It is all proprietary. I believe it uses a similar method to lock up the bolt though. The bolt carrier design is more similar to the AK.

[bu-bye]

It is all proprietary. I believe it uses a similar method to lock up the bolt though. The bolt carrier design is more similar to the AK.

Yeah the bolt looks and functions like anAR, but the carrier group is like an AK. No problems with my CA and I shoot around 200 in a day.

[Dont Tread on Me]

I tested my SU16 with the new exstractor from Keltec today. 90 rounds rapid fire then 40 slow. Not a single problem. The rifle worked like a dream.

FYI: the thread below on the Keltec board notes that you can use a standard AR extractor. Folks are trying equipment from Bushmaster with good results.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1139716801

[shooterx10]

When a metal mag (10 rounder or banana, doesn't matter) is inserted into the SU-16, does it fall out easily when the mag release button is pushed? How does it work with Orlite mags? Do they fall out easily or do they need a pull?

If the mags don't come out easily, do any of you use magpulls?

If the metal mags do not fall out easily, what can you do? Lightly shave the walls of the magwell with a fine file?