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View Full Version : Lower Receiver Transfered to Family Member


goodlookin1
03-30-2010, 10:09 AM
Hey guys,

I think I might have asked something similar a while back, but I need clarification on how a lower is DROS'ed:

Say I buy a stripped lower and DROS it in my name. I am older than 21 years old, so am allowed to register this "non long rifle" receiver. Then say I build up the weapon as a complete and legal "long rifle".

Now my question is, say I wanted to transfer this weapon to my son who is under 19 years of age. Since the receiver was DROS'ed as a "non long rifle" configuration, will my son not be allowed to have it legally transferred into his name until he turns 21 even through it is now in a full "long rifle" configuration?

I am confused if the DROS configuration of the receiver can change once it's been DROS'ed for the first time.

Essentially, I would like to find a way to get the rifle in my son's name but because he is not 21 yet, he cannot register the stripped lower in his own name.

Thanks.

Deadred7o7
03-30-2010, 10:46 AM
He is over 18 you can "gift" him anything you want, pistol or long gun.

goodlookin1
03-30-2010, 10:50 AM
He is over 18 you can "gift" him anything you want, pistol or long gun.

How does this process play out when DROS'ing? Do I go to an FFL and say "I want to gift this rifle to my son" and they do the rest?

Untamed1972
03-30-2010, 10:57 AM
How does this process play out when DROS'ing? Do I go to an FFL and say "I want to gift this rifle to my son" and they do the rest?


You dont have to DROS anything.....well assuming he lives in CA also.

Rukus
03-30-2010, 11:07 AM
It would be an intrafamilial transfer and would require no paperwork if he lives in CA as well. Also there is no "registering" of long guns so he wouldn't be able to put it in his name. As long as he's 18 or older you're GTG.

CSACANNONEER
03-30-2010, 11:07 AM
You can legally transfer a pistol to your son as long as he is over 18 and not a prohibited person. So, of course you can legally transfer a rifle or even a stripped lower to him! If it was not an intrafamiliar transfer, you could only PPT a long gun to some one between the ages of 18 and 21.

loather
03-30-2010, 11:13 AM
You're confusing the 4473 and the DROS paperwork. On the 4473, it was transferred as a receiver only, but on the DROS you only have two options: handgun or long gun. The DROS was recorded as a long gun sale.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

Read the above. Since this is a father-son transfer, you can give it to him with no FFL involvement, no paperwork necessary, and there is no age limit. The fact that it was originally transferred as a bare receiver is nullified by the fact that it is no longer a bare receiver.

JDay
03-30-2010, 1:28 PM
Just give it to him and send in the OPLAW form with $19. You can gift him a handgun this way too, just make sure he gets his HSC first.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf

trautert
03-30-2010, 1:39 PM
Page two of that form says "Do not use this form to report..." long guns.

I suspect that the form, and the $19 fee, is only for intrafamilial transfer of handguns.

CHS
03-30-2010, 1:50 PM
Ok, when you buy a stripped receiver, you must be 21 because it is not a rifle or shotgun; it is an "Other".

When you take it home and build it into a rifle, you have now permanently changed the status of that receiver to a "rifle".

It may now be sold to anyone 18 years old or older.

goodlookin1
03-30-2010, 2:53 PM
Awesome, thanks for all the replys.

So, if I did the intrafamiliar transfer and my son was pulled over with it and they check the information on the rifle, it doesnt matter that it will come back to me instead of him? Trying to figure out how they would even check this since long guns are not "registered" :confused:

dantodd
03-30-2010, 2:57 PM
Awesome, thanks for all the replys.

So, if I did the intrafamiliar transfer and my son was pulled over with it and they check the information on the rifle, it doesnt matter that it will come back to me instead of him? Trying to figure out how they would even check this since long guns are not "registered" :confused:

They couldn't check. All they could do is run to serial number to see if it was reported stolen.

CHS
03-30-2010, 3:00 PM
Awesome, thanks for all the replys.

So, if I did the intrafamiliar transfer and my son was pulled over with it and they check the information on the rifle, it doesnt matter that it will come back to me instead of him? Trying to figure out how they would even check this since long guns are not "registered" :confused:

Since only handguns are registered in California, if they ran the serial number it wouldn't come back as belonging to ANYONE.

OleCuss
03-30-2010, 3:28 PM
Since only handguns are registered in California, if they ran the serial number it wouldn't come back as belonging to ANYONE.

I'm pretty sure I had to register my AR-15 years ago. Is that registration no longer in force or no longer required?

CHS
03-30-2010, 3:36 PM
I'm pretty sure I had to register my AR-15 years ago. Is that registration no longer in force or no longer required?

If it's a registered assault weapon, then you are barred by law from EVER loaning it to even your son. So he'd better not get caught with it while driving around outside of your presence.

OleCuss
03-30-2010, 4:09 PM
If it's a registered assault weapon, then you are barred by law from EVER loaning it to even your son. So he'd better not get caught with it while driving around outside of your presence.

No problem. I have two daughters!!! Son rules don't apply!!! :43:

Oh, well, I guess the cops may not understand that those rules apply only to sons. . .:confused:

CHS
03-30-2010, 4:11 PM
No problem. I have two daughters!!! Son rules don't apply!!! :43:

Oh, well, I guess the cops may not understand that those rules apply only to sons. . .:confused:

Maybe you didn't read the post I was actually replying to:


So, if I did the intrafamiliar transfer and my son was pulled over with it and they check the information on the rifle, it doesnt matter that it will come back to me instead of him? Trying to figure out how they would even check this since long guns are not "registered" :confused:

Son, daughter, parent, doesn't matter.

You may not loan a RAW to ANYONE not already on the registration paperwork. Period.

OleCuss
03-30-2010, 4:22 PM
I wasn't sure to whom you were replying - but I was really just having fun.

I know very well that I really don't get to let someone else have the thing if I am not around. I've heard that there might be a way to transfer to a family member at some point - but the issue is moot from my point of view since one daughter isn't ready and the other is in another state.

goodlookin1
03-31-2010, 6:29 AM
Since only handguns are registered in California, if they ran the serial number it wouldn't come back as belonging to ANYONE.Wait a minute though....if this is really true (and I believe it is), why is there any need to go to an FFL to do a transfer of a long gun if you are doing a FTF transaction? Couldnt you just give the seller the money and you're off with your rifle? Why is there ANY need for a DROS of long rifles? How does the state know that you have had a background check and so forth? If indeed there is no registration, then whats the point of a private seller going with the buyer to an FFL? Couldnt they just do a private transaction because there are no names attached to long rifles?

goodlookin1
03-31-2010, 7:30 AM
Television sets are not registered in California either, but that doesn't mean I can violate the law by stealing my neighbors TV.

How is this in any way, shape or form close to what my situation is? I didn't steal my friend's lower receiver. And for the record, we have been meaning to get them DROS'ed, but haven't been able to find time yet.

And just because the lower receiver isn't "registered" to you doesn't mean it can't be traced back to you. Every transfer of your lower has been recorded by make, model, and serial number, from the manufacturer to the distributor, to your local FFL and finally to you.

That's "registration" in my book. Any time the gov't keeps a paper trail on weapons, it might as well be registration, IMO.

loather
03-31-2010, 10:39 AM
Wait a minute though....if this is really true (and I believe it is), why is there any need to go to an FFL to do a transfer of a long gun if you are doing a FTF transaction? Couldnt you just give the seller the money and you're off with your rifle? Why is there ANY need for a DROS of long rifles? How does the state know that you have had a background check and so forth? If indeed there is no registration, then whats the point of a private seller going with the buyer to an FFL? Couldnt they just do a private transaction because there are no names attached to long rifles?

The point is that if you get caught doing it, you go to jail. I don't make a habit of doing illegal things (although like you say, it's a stupid requirement in the first place -- what other personal property do you have to report to the state upon sale and pay a fee?).

CHS
03-31-2010, 10:47 AM
(what other personal property do you have to report to the state upon sale and pay a fee?).

Cars?
Businesses?

goodlookin1
03-31-2010, 12:10 PM
The point is that if you get caught doing it, you go to jail. I don't make a habit of doing illegal things (although like you say, it's a stupid requirement in the first place -- what other personal property do you have to report to the state upon sale and pay a fee?).

Well here's the kicker: How are they going to "enforce it" if there is truly no registration of the firearm from the get-go?

I understand the illegality of the matter, but any attempt at prosecuting (outside of a sting operation) would be tantamount to the state admitting that they keep registration records. Yet this apparently isnt being done.

Mssr. Eleganté says records are being kept. Bdsmchs says they arent. Am I misunderstanding what "registration" really is? If registration simply means paying a yearly fee for owning the weapon (like vehicles), then no gun in CA is registered (to my knowledge). But handguns are "registered" and yet there's no yearly fee for owning them in CA. I'm led to conclude then that "gun registration" simply means that the weapon is under your strict ownership so long as you own it. Upon sale, it is then attached to a new name. This is the essence of "registration", is it not?

And if this is so, how does LE prosecute without using "records" (outside of a sting operation, of course)?

CSACANNONEER
03-31-2010, 12:30 PM
Mssr. Eleganté says records are being kept. Bdsmchs says they arent. Am I misunderstanding what "registration" really is?

For long guns, detailed records are not kept by the state. The state can go back to the FFL who transfered the weapon, go through their 4473s (with a search warrent) and trace the legal purchaser of a long gun. The legal purchaser better be able to prove that the firearm in question was either stolen from him/her or legally (both state and Federal laws apply) transfered to someone else.

So, there is no mandatory "registration" of non-AW long guns or handguns owned prior to ???? (I think sometime in '91) but, there are ways to trace them. Yep, I said that there is no mandatory registration of hand guns. When they are legally transfered, they automatically get "registered" though.

goodlookin1
03-31-2010, 12:40 PM
For long guns, detailed records are not kept by the state. The state can go back to the FFL who transfered the weapon, go through their 4473s (with a search warrent) and trace the legal purchaser of a long gun. The legal purchaser better be able to prove that the firearm in question was either stolen from him/her or legally (both state and Federal laws apply) transfered to someone else.

So, there is no mandatory "registration" of non-AW long guns or handguns owned prior to ???? (I think sometime in '91) but, there are ways to trace them. Yep, I said that there is no mandatory registration of hand guns. When they are legally transfered, they automatically get "registered" though.

This is the info I was looking for. Thank you.

BTW, I have already taken corrective action to fix the issue....it wasn't a long term deal. We both just havent been able to make it out to the FFL (busy schedules an' all). It was easy enough to hop on over to his house and switch 'em up again.

loather
03-31-2010, 12:51 PM
Cars?

You don't have to report the sale. They buying party *should,* especially if he wants to register it for highway use, but the sale doesn't have to be reported. There's certainly no fee paid by the seller to the government to sell a car. Hell, if the registration is current, all the purchaser need do is file a change of title with the state and you don't even need to pay the registration fee. As I eluded to before, you don't even need to register it at all if you never plan to take it off your private property.

Businesses?

Now this I'm not familiar with, but businesses don't necessarily fall under my definition of personal property -- a business isn't necessarily a tangible asset like a car or an AR-15 or a guitar, etc.

ke6guj
03-31-2010, 12:51 PM
Well here's the kicker: How are they going to "enforce it" if there is truly no registration of the firearm from the get-go?

I understand the illegality of the matter, but any attempt at prosecuting (outside of a sting operation) would be tantamount to the state admitting that they keep registration records. Yet this apparently isnt being done.

Mssr. Eleganté says records are being kept. Bdsmchs says they arent. Am I misunderstanding what "registration" really is?


Mssr. Elegante is correct that there are records kept. Those would be the bound books of the manufacturer, distributer, and dealer. Basically, CADOJ/ATF could contact the manufacturer with the serial number of a specific rifle and find out who they shipped it to. They would then contact that person and find out the disposition of it, was it sold to a person or another FFL. They continue down the line til they find the end-user. At that point, they contact the end user and find out what they did with it.

When bdsmchs says there isn't "registration" is that there isn't a master database that CADOJ or ATF can access to find out who owns that specific rifle. There is CADOJ operated database for handgun registrations.

CSACANNONEER
03-31-2010, 12:57 PM
This is the info I was looking for. Thank you.

BTW, I have already taken corrective action to fix the issue....it wasn't a long term deal. We both just havent been able to make it out to the FFL (busy schedules an' all). It was easy enough to hop on over to his house and switch 'em up again.

It's perfectly legal to loan and borrow firearms with friends as long as it's for 30 days or less!

goodlookin1
03-31-2010, 1:04 PM
It's perfectly legal to loan and borrow firearms with friends as long as it's for 30 days or less!

Oh, perfect! I was in the clear then :)