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View Full Version : OK to stun pregnant woman, Ninth Circuit says


kf6tac
03-26-2010, 6:13 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011453332_apuspregnantwomantasered1stldwritethru. html?syndication=rss

The folks who were freaking out a few months back when the Ninth Circuit ruled that police officers can be sued for unnecessarily tasering a suspect (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=253995) can chill out a bit; the Ninth Circuit let three police officers off the hook for tasering a pregnant woman and dragging her out of her car because she refused to sign a speeding ticket.

Three Seattle police officers were justified when they used a stun gun on a pregnant mother who refused to sign a traffic ticket, a federal appeals court ruled Friday in a case that prompted an incredulous dissent.

Malaika Brooks was driving her son to Seattle's African American Academy in 2004 when she was stopped for doing 32 mph in a school zone. She insisted it was the car in front of her that was speeding, and refused to sign the ticket because she thought she'd be admitting guilt.

Rather than give her the ticket and let her go on her way, the officers decided to arrest her. One reached in, turned off her car and dropped the keys on the floor. Brooks stiffened her arms against the steering wheel and told the officers she was pregnant, but refused to get out, even after they threatened to stun her.

The officers - Sgt. Steven Daman, Officer Juan Ornelas and Officer Donald Jones - then stunned her three times, in the thigh, shoulder and neck, and hauled her out of the car, laying her face-down in the street.

blacksheep
03-26-2010, 6:18 PM
Leave it to the ninth circus to make everything right, I feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we are well protected.;)

Roadrunner
03-26-2010, 6:19 PM
Well, wait until the kid is born. If she can prove that any abnormalities with the child can be attributed to the tasering while she was pregnant, she will have a field day with them.

Attiic
03-26-2010, 6:24 PM
Well, wait until the kid is born. If she can prove that any abnormalities with the child can be attributed to the tasering while she was pregnant, she will have a field day with them.

The article says 2004 on it. Does anybody know how the kid turned out?

N6ATF
03-26-2010, 6:30 PM
Timing right for an appeal to SCOTUS after the baby is born and evaluated? Or can new evidence not be introduced mid-appeals, no matter how pertinent to the case?

ETA: Ah, crap. Looks like 9C overruled itself. No more asinine Tasering.

yelohamr
03-26-2010, 7:30 PM
The baby was born with very curly hair.

N6ATF
03-26-2010, 8:33 PM
The baby was born with very curly hair.

He didn't look like this?
http://images.worldcupblog.org/www/Ljuboja.jpg

five.five-six
03-26-2010, 8:34 PM
this is good news, my wife is 8 months pregnant, and could use a good tazing about now

obeygiant
03-26-2010, 8:35 PM
this is good news, my wife is 8 months pregnant, and could use a good tazing about now

I was going to suggest this for you...:43:

TURBOELKY
03-26-2010, 8:39 PM
this is good news, my wife is 8 months pregnant, and could use a good tazing about now

My kids mom (no longer with) had my son 8 years ago. I would currently like to tazer her now, but she has a Tazer, I dont.....:hide:

But then again she's not pregnant, well, at least not that I know of. Tazing a pregnant woman is down right SICK....:mad:

SchooBaka
03-26-2010, 8:44 PM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011453332_apuspregnantwomantasered1stldwritethru. html?syndication=rss

The folks who were freaking out a few months back when the Ninth Circuit ruled that police officers can be sued for unnecessarily tasering a suspect (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=253995) can chill out a bit; the Ninth Circuit let three police officers off the hook for tasering a pregnant woman and dragging her out of her car because she refused to sign a speeding ticket.

:mad:
IMHO Peace Officers have become way too reliant on the stun gun for things such as pain compliance. This sort of thing makes my blood boil!

five.five-six
03-26-2010, 8:44 PM
Pregnant women risk murder in US (http://www.jrrobertssecurity.com/security-news/security-crime-news0043.htm)

just saying

The Director
03-26-2010, 8:54 PM
That's freakin' sick! Jack booted thugs! Did 3 cops really need to taze a pregnant woman? Wow.

dunndeal
03-26-2010, 9:31 PM
:mad:
IMHO Peace Officers have become way too reliant on the stun gun for things such as pain compliance. This sort of thing makes my blood boil!

What do you suggest? Should they have split her head open with a baton, pumped a couple of .40's into her. I guess they could have dragged her out of the car and dumped her on the asphalt. Either way she gets arrested, it's the law.

San Francisco's new Chief of Police, George Gascon, proposed to the Board of Stupidvisors that they allow SF cops to carry tasers, but in a show of idiocy they said "no". I guess they'd rather have citizens shot than subdued. Don't tase me bro.

B.D.Dubloon
03-26-2010, 9:34 PM
The article says 2004 on it. Does anybody know how the kid turned out?

With a mother like that, I would guess it is not going to be good. She sounds kinda like that dumb broad they dragged out of that college class a week ago.

To all you JBTer's, what should the cops have done?

Trigger Finger
03-26-2010, 10:08 PM
They could have OC sprayed her. Then drug her out the window!

On my old department they would not let us prone out an obviously pregnant woman. We kept coming up with scenarios for officer safety and the safety of the suspect. Finally the powers that be said," OK,OK if you have to then prone her out on her back." :rolleyes:

RangemasterP226
03-26-2010, 10:16 PM
Maybe next time she'll sign the ticket................oh wait, she's an idiot.

This inicident is 100% her fault AND within her control.

N6ATF
03-27-2010, 12:47 AM
With a mother like that, I would guess it is not going to be good. She sounds kinda like that dumb broad they dragged out of that college class a week ago.

To all you JBTer's, what should the cops have done?

Boot the car with her in it, lay down spike strips fore and aft. She can leave her self-imposed standoff when she signs the ticket.

odysseus
03-27-2010, 12:49 AM
He didn't look like this?
http://images.worldcupblog.org/www/Ljuboja.jpg

What are maxipads doing on that ball?

It has wings!

demnogis
03-27-2010, 12:49 AM
I imagine this happening, and in my head all I can think of the cops screaming, while tasing her, is "THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY!"

That's what pain compliance is for, right? Our safety?

tunder
03-27-2010, 6:31 AM
No, it's for the children.

limitdown
03-27-2010, 7:31 AM
If I were the mother, I would sue anyway. Many pre-natal issues don't surface until the child is much older.

1911_sfca
03-27-2010, 9:11 AM
Just when you thought the 9th couldn't get anything right.. my faith in humanity is restored.

loather
03-27-2010, 9:30 AM
I'd rather they used a taser than beat the crap out of her with a baton.

If she refuses to sign the citation, which clearly reads under the signature line, "Your signature is not an admission of guilt," then she deserves what she got, pregnant or not. I'm sorry, I fail to see where the cops did any wrong here.

N6ATF
03-27-2010, 9:46 AM
Committing a non-violent act= violent punishment?

I think that's what the 8th Amendment is supposed to protect us against.

What next? The police taze you for having a legal gun and not actively surrendering it to them?

What are maxipads doing on that ball?

It's about to come in contact with a giant vagina...

yelohamr
03-27-2010, 9:51 AM
I wrote a speeding ticket, that the driver refused to sign. I printed "Refused to sign" on the ticket and had him sign his name to verify that he refused to sign.

leelaw
03-27-2010, 10:03 AM
The article says 2004 on it. Does anybody know how the kid turned out?

Hopefully not like the mother.

alex00
03-27-2010, 10:49 AM
I don't think the issue is so much that a Taser was used on a pregnant woman, I've dealt with some very violent women that were, or claimed to be pregnant. The kicker for me is that the only resistance mentioned in the full article is a refusal to get out of the car, and stiffening her arms. The article also mentions that refusal to sign a ticket in Washington is not an arrestable offense. This woman, pregnant or not, was caught going 7 MPH over the speed limit in a school zone. She wasn't in a violent fight, robbing a bank or beating her kids. According to the article, there was no indication that she was acting in a violent manner. The only perceived 'threat' was that she may retrieve her keys and drive off in an angry state. I've had a lot of people drive away from a ticket in an angry manner, its part of life.

Sure, in California, you can be arrested for refusal to sign the citation. But the nature of the offense has to be taken into account. Is it really worth getting into a knock down drag out fight with a driver, or shooting them with a Taser, because they refuse to sign a speeding ticket? I'd say in most cases, no. I have had plenty of people refuse to sign tickets because they didn't think they committed the violation. Most people can be convinced to sign the ticket after a reasonable discussion, or threat of arrest. Of the (hundreds/thousands?) tickets I've written only a handful of people flat out refused to sign the ticket. Some went to jail because they didn't have ID, but the rest were handed a ticket with "refused" in the signature box.

There may have been some really compelling reasons that the officers needed to Tase her, but they didn't make it into the article. Given the facts presented in the article, I'm a little surprised the 9th ruled in favor of the officers, especially since Washington doesn't allow arrest for refusal to sign a citation. I don't see how a person can resist arrest when it's not an arrestable offence, or obstruct lawful duties, when the duty was completed upon filling out the ticket.

1911_sfca
03-27-2010, 11:38 AM
I wrote a speeding ticket, that the driver refused to sign. I printed "Refused to sign" on the ticket and had him sign his name to verify that he refused to sign.

Ha ha ha.. that's a good one. I'm gonna have to try that some time.

IrishPirate
03-27-2010, 11:43 AM
maybe if we just take the opposite of what they say and go with that, we'd have some laws that made sense.

manuelcardenas77
03-27-2010, 12:17 PM
They had to taser a pregnant woman? For not signing a speeding ticket? Some real men there. I agree COWARDS!!!! Btw I like your screen name!!!

RobG
03-27-2010, 2:11 PM
If she needs it fine, taz her, pregnant or no. But, taze her thrice and throw her on her face for not signing a speeding ticket??? Come on, your saying thats not excessive:rolleyes:

Meplat
03-27-2010, 2:48 PM
The article says 2004 on it. Does anybody know how the kid turned out?

She was probably on her way to the planed parenthood clinic.

Meplat
03-27-2010, 2:53 PM
Have you ever had to face a really pissed off pregnant woman? I just sayin....:eek:

That's freakin' sick! Jack booted thugs! Did 3 cops really need to taze a pregnant woman? Wow.

Rob454
03-27-2010, 3:10 PM
Well, wait until the kid is born. If she can prove that any abnormalities with the child can be attributed to the tasering while she was pregnant, she will have a field day with them.

yeah good luck proving that.
As for tazering a pregnant woman for not signing a ticket? Well its sort of BS but I guess it depends on if she got crazxy. the thing is as the law states if you wont sign a ticket they have to take you to jail. basically signing the ticket keeps you from making a trip to jail. it does not say you are guilty. its just a promisory note that you will show up in court. People flip out. Im sorry she got tazed but being pregnant is no excuse for acting like a moron. All she had to do is sign the ticket and be on her way. Then she coudl go to court and explain the problem to a judge.

Meplat
03-27-2010, 3:36 PM
Clearly a mental midget. Although what happened sounds kind of harsh, I wasn't there. What are you going to do? Would physical force be safer? Probably not. Pepper spray? Maybe.

Things like this make me thank my lucky stars that I did not go into police work. I'd rather have to take down half a dozen gang bangers than one pregnant idiot!


I'd rather they used a taser than beat the crap out of her with a baton.

If she refuses to sign the citation, which clearly reads under the signature line, "Your signature is not an admission of guilt," then she deserves what she got, pregnant or not. I'm sorry, I fail to see where the cops did any wrong here.

Meplat
03-27-2010, 3:40 PM
Well, I guess if they refuse to sign it's evidence that they are dumb enough to be hoodwinked.;)


I wrote a speeding ticket, that the driver refused to sign. I printed "Refused to sign" on the ticket and had him sign his name to verify that he refused to sign.

Meplat
03-27-2010, 3:47 PM
Im sorry she got tazed but being pregnant is no excuse for acting like a moron.

Acting like a moron is probably how she got pregnant in the first place.;)

SickofSoCal
03-27-2010, 4:00 PM
D-E-H-U-M-A-N-I-Z-A-T-I-O-N


Get used to it, because it's your future.

fairfaxjim
03-28-2010, 8:15 AM
D-E-H-U-M-A-N-I-Z-A-T-I-O-N


Get used to it, because it's your future.

It's now, and it is rapidly becoming the law and the practice of the land!

liketoshoot
03-28-2010, 8:23 AM
this is good news, my wife is 8 months pregnant, and could use a good tazing about now

you're killing me man!! :rofl2:
and the past midnight runs to what ever the craving is............

five.five-six
03-29-2010, 5:32 AM
you're killing me man!! :rofl2:
and the past midnight runs to what ever the craving is............

gawd, I love her... but the hormones are going to cost me about 3 years off the end of my life :eek:

Beelzy
03-29-2010, 8:37 AM
Well that's "No Child Left Behind" at work for you!

What next?? Grannies in wheelchairs??

thrillhouse700
03-29-2010, 9:36 AM
Tazing was waaaay overboard in this situation. They could have easily persuaded her with a few baton hits......

JK jk jk really tho I hope the kid is ok, kind of sad that the lady did not think of her kid when they said they would tase her bro. If you think about it she was using her child as some sort of shield to get away with breaking the law.

adamsreeftank
03-29-2010, 1:23 PM
I'm really surprised at the criticism of the driver. It was her right not to sign the ticket. According to the article, there was no probable cause to detain or arrest her. What in the story makes anyone think an escalation of force was justified, other than a citizen not respecting an officers authority.

Mstrty
03-29-2010, 2:15 PM
The article says 2004 on it. Does anybody know how the kid turned out?

I wish the Court ruled her to be unfit. As she clearly put an innocent child in the line of fire. She should be locked up for endangering the child. No word should be spoken about the cops doing their job. :mad:

kf6tac
03-29-2010, 3:07 PM
the thing is as the law states if you wont sign a ticket they have to take you to jail.

Not in Washington, it doesn't. In 2004 -- when the events occurred -- it was a misdemeanor but the police were not allowed to arrest someone for it. After 2006, it wasn't a crime at all.

artherd
03-29-2010, 5:44 PM
... the rest were handed a ticket with "refused" in the signature box.

THIS.

advocatusdiaboli
03-29-2010, 7:11 PM
Boot the car with her in it, lay down spike strips fore and aft. She can leave her self-imposed standoff when she signs the ticket.

Ding Ding Ding. Correct answer. We have a winner. I would add handcuff her to the steering wheel under guard so she doesn't hurt herself. It would actually have been more fun for them to watch her squirm when she had to pee. Let see: sign or pee my panties? Tough choice.

Just kidding above.
Just note on the ticket she refused to sign and have her sign that statement and let her go. She'll be in court soon enough, three officers against her, and justice will be served. My guess is what wasn't said here was that she was in their face and antagonizing them and hoping for this lawsuit thinking she could play the race card with bonus points for kind in the char and a bun in oven. Buuzzz. Sorry honey, didn't fly. Enjoy the home game. Who is our next contestant on Game the System 'cuz I'm a Minority? You can winn valuable settlements paid for by the hard-working taxpayers!

N6ATF
03-30-2010, 12:16 AM
Ding Ding Ding. Correct answer. We have a winner. I would add handcuff her to the steering wheel under guard so she doesn't hurt herself. It would actually have been more fun for them to watch her squirm when she had to pee. Let see: sign or pee my panties? Tough choice.

I was thinking of more creative, less violent ways for cops to be Adam Henries.

She can leave, but if the vehicle's blocking a right-of-way or otherwise illegally parked, it gets towed. CA has a law for that: VC 22651.

CABilly
03-30-2010, 1:45 AM
D-E-H-U-M-A-N-I-Z-A-T-I-O-N


Get used to it, because it's your future.

This is the real thrust of the story, IMO.