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View Full Version : What does DOJ Do With My Fingerprint ?


Ca Patriot
03-26-2010, 11:40 AM
I just bought a new gun last week and I had to give a fingerprint. Why is that ? Do they run the print through a criminal database ? Do they keep the print on file ? If so, who keeps it and for how long ?

bwiese
03-26-2010, 11:50 AM
Nothing.

It was either:

a meaningless piece of feel-good legislation that got thru, or




something put in as a placeholder by our side to give the appearance of
control - so as to stop something worse from going thru.



The thumbprint is on the back of the DROS form and is stored at your FFL's with the papers for the 50,000 other guns he's sold.
Nobody gives a crap about it.

Ca Patriot
03-26-2010, 11:52 AM
So law enforcement doesnt have access to it then ?

boxbro
03-26-2010, 11:56 AM
So law enforcement doesnt have access to it then ?

If it exists, they have access to it.
Although it's pretty pointless though, because if a crime is committed with your gun, and the gun is found at the scene, they're going to haul you in anyhow and probably get a print from you, either openly and clandestinely.
They don't really need the print that's on the form.

bwiese
03-26-2010, 11:58 AM
If it exists, they have access to it.

Yup. If there's an investigation, they could look at the paperwork for the gun purchase.

Willy-nilly, it'd cost too much to scan all the fingerprints. So there's no rational reason to worry about it.

Although it's pretty pointless though, because if a crime is committed with your gun,
and the gun is found at the scene, they're going to haul you in anyhow and probably get a print from
you, either openly and clandestinely.
They don't really need the print that's on the form.

Bingo.

Ca Patriot
03-26-2010, 12:00 PM
Well my concern is that police will use the data base of gun owners finger prints to randomly cross reference with finger prints discovered or obtained in other invetigations.

For instance, a robbery occurs in San Jose and a finger print is left at the scene. Detectives run the print through their known felons or police records. Nothing comes back with a hit. So then, the police say, well, lets just run them through the gun registry database and see if anything comes back.

On top of that, I dont trust the ATF or FBI and their access to prints of lawful gun owners.

POLICESTATE
03-26-2010, 12:04 PM
Don't forget that DMV has your electronically scanned thumbprint anyway.

Unless you live off the grid you have no real anonymity in this country anymore. It's been like this for at least 15 years that I know of. There are products that have been (and continue to be marketed) to law enforcement and other government agencies (and some other entities) which can cross check driver's license numbers, DOB's, SSN, passport number and just about any other piece of info you've put out there quite efficiently.

bwiese
03-26-2010, 12:11 PM
Well my concern is that police will use the data base of gun owners finger prints to randomly cross reference with finger prints discovered or obtained in other invetigations.

For instance, a robbery occurs in San Jose and a finger print is left at the scene. Detectives run the print through their known felons or police records. Nothing comes back with a hit. So then, the police say, well, lets just run them through the gun registry database and see if anything comes back.

On top of that, I dont trust the ATF or FBI and their access to prints of lawful gun owners.


Worry about real things.

POLICESTATE
03-26-2010, 12:14 PM
Worry about real things.

Yup, as I alluded to earlier, if they want to find out about you they will have no problems doing just that. Just keep your nose clean and don't worry about it. :)

SJgunguy24
03-26-2010, 12:15 PM
I'm not really too worried, DOJ and the feds have my info. If they want to get you they'll get you.

Brianguy
03-26-2010, 12:17 PM
Can't seem to get any kind of license from the state without getting a livescan. The DOJ and FBI have been sent my prints like 10 times. Next will be brain implants to report thought crime.

boxbro
03-26-2010, 12:19 PM
If they want to get you they'll get you.

Yup, even if you are not guilty of anything other than using generic toilet paper.

POLICESTATE
03-26-2010, 12:20 PM
Yeah Livescan is BS, hmmm, maybe the Health Control Law will get some updates in the future to ensure that you are who you say you are when you go see a doctor. Make sure you don't get the wrong meds or something right? Think of the children.

IrishPirate
03-26-2010, 12:24 PM
what would happen if you were burned and had no finger prints, or couldn't give them because you had bandages on? I know that seems like something that isn't likely, but it's a very legitimate reason to not be able to give finger prints. could they deny you anything if you're willing but unable to provide prints?

my last live scan took 7 tries to get a good print because my fingers were cut up from work......when is it too bad to not have to give them?

halifax
03-26-2010, 12:48 PM
what would happen if you were burned and had no finger prints, or couldn't give them because you had bandages on? I know that seems like something that isn't likely, but it's a very legitimate reason to not be able to give finger prints. could they deny you anything if you're willing but unable to provide prints?

my last live scan took 7 tries to get a good print because my fingers were cut up from work......when is it too bad to not have to give them?

The DOJ expects the dealer to call them if a right thumbprint isn't possible. I have two customers that have no right thumbs and I have just taken the left and noted it. If they had no thumbs, I suppose I have to call the DOJ.

Corn Huskers lotion works great for bringing out the ridges.

tacticalcity
03-26-2010, 12:54 PM
They enter it into a secret database and match it against a print you left behind when stole that snickers bar from 7-11 when you five years old, and then they send the SWAT team, no two SWAT teams, with black helicopters, night vision, and lasers sights, to bang down your door and drag you off to jail. So what ever you do man, don't let them have your finger print!!!

;)

Scars on your finger are just as useful as swirls for matching your print to you.

thedrickel
03-26-2010, 1:06 PM
I have been told by DOJ that the thumbprint is the only way for them to confirm that YOU were actually in the store filling out the paperwork. IF, and that's a big IF, they ever needed or wanted to, they could cross check the thumbprint on your DROS sheet with the one on file with the DMV, and therefore verify if YOU were actually in the store buying the gun.

corrupt
03-26-2010, 1:31 PM
sheeeeee***t... there are so many other things that the government and large corporations track us with, it's ridiculous. They use cell phone tower information in court! And guess who has access to all that info without a warrant. Yep, that's right. How about credit cards, phone, internet... there is access to all of that. Here in California government agencies have access to telco data hubs, as well as other locations across the nation.

Fingerprints are now almost a cute little biometric antiquity.

Hell, they have my DNA sample cataloged out on the east coast (military).

If you were paranoid, there are so many other things to worry about.

stag1500
03-26-2010, 1:31 PM
I'm not really too worried, DOJ and the feds have my info. If they want to get you they'll get you.

Exactly. When you apply for a CCW, you get finger-printed anyways (not just your thumb) and it goes to the FBI as part of your background check.

bandook
03-26-2010, 6:08 PM
Well my concern is that police will use the data base of gun owners finger prints to randomly cross reference with finger prints discovered or obtained in other invetigations.

For instance, a robbery occurs in San Jose and a finger print is left at the scene. Detectives run the print through their known felons or police records. Nothing comes back with a hit. So then, the police say, well, lets just run them through the gun registry database and see if anything comes back.

On top of that, I dont trust the ATF or FBI and their access to prints of lawful gun owners.

Perhaps it would be better not to commit the robbery in the first place...

Choptop
03-26-2010, 7:47 PM
I just bought a new gun last week and I had to give a fingerprint. Why is that ? Do they run the print through a criminal database ? Do they keep the print on file ? If so, who keeps it and for how long ?


Seriously? I mean really?

do you not get what "background check" means?

sfpcservice
03-26-2010, 7:59 PM
i heard that it goes into an international database that is cross referenced with ATM locations used. Did you know an ATM takes your fingerprints whenever you use it AND it takes your picture too!

Choptop
03-26-2010, 8:01 PM
http://meltyourfaceoff.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg

http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tinfoil.jpg

obeygiant
03-26-2010, 8:40 PM
The DOJ submits the fingerprint and all personal data to the NSA who stores it at their civilian data warehouse in Utah. See post above ^^.

corrupt
03-26-2010, 8:48 PM
When the CIA screws up a domestic operation, they plant your fingerprint on something and use you as the fall guy so they can tidy everything up and the White House doesn't even have to go in to plausible deniability mode. Thanks for being a patriot.

Rigma
03-26-2010, 8:50 PM
what would happen if you were burned and had no finger prints, or couldn't give them because you had bandages on? I know that seems like something that isn't likely, but it's a very legitimate reason to not be able to give finger prints. could they deny you anything if you're willing but unable to provide prints?

my last live scan took 7 tries to get a good print because my fingers were cut up from work......when is it too bad to not have to give them?

If your live scan is rejected due to "lack of ridge detail," you will be sent back to have it re-done (which you should NOT be charged for).

If prints are repeatedly rejected because of lack of detail, the agency the background check is reported to can ask for a check based on personal information. However this varies by agency or reason you are getting scanned.

I.E. if its for a contractors license they will probably allow it, CCW permit...I doubt it.

SJgunguy24
03-26-2010, 8:56 PM
When I was scanned for an airport badge (post 911) they did the each finger and the entire hand. When I was first issued a badge there was no finger prints at all. (1994)
Just did my livescan and that was fingers only.

Choptop
03-26-2010, 9:06 PM
The DOJ submits the fingerprint and all personal data to the NSA who stores it at their civilian data warehouse in Utah. See post above ^^.


The Civilian Data Warehouse is staffed by albino Mormon virgin mutes who have never been taught sign language and they can only type on the terminals that are connected ONLY to the database mainframe. They are housed in underground dormitories that are feed by secret snow melt aqueducts and MRE's are dropped down ventilation tubes along with new files to be entered into the database. Only the Illuminati, the Masons, the Skull and Bones, Dick Cheney and of course, The Jews have access to the database info.

jazman
03-26-2010, 11:18 PM
Worry about real things.

I agree with Bill.
All of us that have a CCW licence have full sets of prints on file with the FBI, no big deal.

obeygiant
03-26-2010, 11:24 PM
The Civilian Data Warehouse is staffed by albino Mormon virgin mutes who have never been taught sign language and they can only type on the terminals that are connected ONLY to the database mainframe. They are housed in underground dormitories that are feed by secret snow melt aqueducts and MRE's are dropped down ventilation tubes along with new files to be entered into the database. Only the Illuminati, the Masons, the Skull and Bones, Dick Cheney and of course, The Jews have access to the database info.

:rofl2:

SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
03-27-2010, 12:00 AM
What does the Man exactly check for when the DOJ runs a background check? Just felonies?

So assuming you buy a gun, submit to the livescan/application, and receive your piece 10 days later from layaway, and the shop signs your gun away w/out any questions, what does that say about your record?

Merc1138
03-27-2010, 12:24 AM
Well my concern is that police will use the data base of gun owners finger prints to randomly cross reference with finger prints discovered or obtained in other invetigations.

For instance, a robbery occurs in San Jose and a finger print is left at the scene. Detectives run the print through their known felons or police records. Nothing comes back with a hit. So then, the police say, well, lets just run them through the gun registry database and see if anything comes back.


So don't rob people. I mean, you're seriously worried about your prints showing up in a robbery and the police using the print for your DROS? What about the thumbprint that the DMV has for the drivers license you probably used when you bought the firearm anyway?

Ca Patriot
03-27-2010, 9:22 AM
Its simple, when you give a thumb print for a firearms purchase I believe American citizens should be assured it will be used only for the purpose of a firearm purchase.

thedrickel
03-27-2010, 10:30 AM
It stays on the DROS sheet. The DOJ doesn't come in for an audit and scan EVERY thumbprint. You think they have the manpower for anything like that? They just look to see that it's there, and move on to the next one.

SJgunguy24
03-27-2010, 10:47 AM
It stays on the DROS sheet. The DOJ doesn't come in for an audit and scan EVERY thumbprint. You think they have the manpower for anything like that? They just look to see that it's there, and move on to the next one.

Well they sure had the manpower to strongarm an FFL I know and kick the customers out of the shop and not being very professional about it either.

Merc1138
03-27-2010, 2:21 PM
Its simple, when you give a thumb print for a firearms purchase I believe American citizens should be assured it will be used only for the purpose of a firearm purchase.

But even then, that's useless because you're handing over your drivers license/state id number where they already have your thumbprint on file. They don't need the thumbprint on your DROS for anything. It's ok, you can take the tinfoil off. There are plenty of other legit issues to worry about.

(and you do realize that you already have prints on the paperwork anyway, unless you're really going out of your way when handling it to make sure they won't be there)

Ca Patriot
03-27-2010, 2:36 PM
When I got my drivers license I put dabs of super glue on my thumb. The print would be hard to compare to mine, lol.

SteveH
03-27-2010, 2:43 PM
They already have my prints from the military and my AW registration paperwork.

thedrickel
03-27-2010, 3:39 PM
When I got my drivers license I put dabs of super glue on my thumb. The print would be hard to compare to mine, lol.

Then why didn't you do the same thing every time you ran a DROS?

nick
03-27-2010, 3:40 PM
what would happen if you were burned and had no finger prints, or couldn't give them because you had bandages on? I know that seems like something that isn't likely, but it's a very legitimate reason to not be able to give finger prints. could they deny you anything if you're willing but unable to provide prints?

my last live scan took 7 tries to get a good print because my fingers were cut up from work......when is it too bad to not have to give them?

Funny that you mention that. The island my girlfriend comes from, about a quarter of the people there are potters of sorts. As such, they don't really have fingerprints.

There's a discount card for the ferry that connects the island to the mainland (saves about 40% of the fare), and, in order to make it more convenient, you can just use your thumbprint instead of carrying the card with you... :rolleyes:

Merc1138
03-27-2010, 11:37 PM
When I got my drivers license I put dabs of super glue on my thumb. The print would be hard to compare to mine, lol.

Seriously, take the tinfoil hat off.

And like someone else said, just do that for the DROS if you're so paranoid. Heck, do you really live your life wiping prints off of everything you touch? Probably not.

leelaw
03-28-2010, 12:44 AM
What happens:

The non ten-print quality print sits, fading, on the back of the DROS worksheet, until a 3 - 5 year period (I forget the limit) passes, at which point the DROS paperwork, fingerprint, and other state-only paperwork are destroyed by the FFL.

..I mean - they're fed immediately into a database which identifies you so they can put a fingerprint to the picture of you gleamed off the store's hidden cameras, which beam back to DOJ every hour, on the hour (and then sent to Mexico on the half-hour) along with copies of your DL, vehicle license plate, and saliva sample from when you were drooling over the display case.

POLICESTATE
03-28-2010, 12:50 AM
I can't believe this thread is going on either, so I will give the tinhats the skinny on it:

The DOJ doesn't care about your thumbprint (because they already have it through DMV and it's electronically scanned and better than the smudge you stick on the paper at your local FFL) but they take a DNA sample from it. That goes into a database and they also send a sample of your DNA to Fort Dietrich so they can fabricate a poison in weaponized aerosol form that is only effective vs you.

If you ever step out of line EVER you're toast. So you best keep your nose clean, stay off of :TFH: websites and forums and make sure you don't wear your :TFH: so they can keep reading/manipulating your thoughts.

POLICESTATE
03-28-2010, 12:51 AM
OMG I just realized I shouldn't have posted all of that, what's that smell? Noo!!! ARGHHHH!!!!........

Oh wait it was just gas :rofl2:

Merc1138
03-28-2010, 1:08 AM
OMG I just realized I shouldn't have posted all of that, what's that smell? Noo!!! ARGHHHH!!!!........

Oh wait it was just gas :rofl2:

Look outside at the sky, that's me in the black stealth helicopter that you can't see, stealing your neighbors wifi to post.

tenpercentfirearms
03-28-2010, 9:02 AM
To help settle some of you down, the good news is I only have to retain DROS documentation for three years. After that, I shred and destroy your thumb print. You are safe...for now.

KylaGWolf
03-28-2010, 7:58 PM
Someone else mentioned they take your thumb print when you go get your DL. Here is something funny. When I first got my license I had a mole on my thumb. Well went overseas for three years thanks to Uncle Sam while I was there the mole was removed due to the fact it was changing. Came back had to renew my license that expired they redid the thumb print it came back different til I showed them the scar from the removal of the mole they hassled me. Then no problem.

Rigma
03-28-2010, 8:29 PM
What does the Man exactly check for when the DOJ runs a background check? Just felonies?

So assuming you buy a gun, submit to the livescan/application, and receive your piece 10 days later from layaway, and the shop signs your gun away w/out any questions, what does that say about your record?

This brings up a good question. Are background checks just CA DOJ checks or DOJ & FBI (CA & National)?

These are just name checks using ID to confirm identity right? I haven't bought a gun in years so I don't know, but I guess I'll find out next week.

I assume the FFL gets a "pass/fail" and not your actual background check...right?

To answer your question SMOKEYMOUNTAIN, the "live scan" background check runs CA DOJ & usually also FBI. The reporting agency gets one report from each. It will show ANY conviction or anything you were officially charged for (ie not simply an arrest or detention...usually)...assuming it was reported by the court correctly and in a timely manner.

And yes...convictions for local ordinance violations can pop up on it as well...silly.