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View Full Version : For you newbies to 3-gun in CA...


shooterx10
02-09-2006, 1:12 PM
Please check out this thread on the Brian Enos forum:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27246

Years ago, the biggest stumbling block for newbies was the rifle, but with the AR off-list lowers available for sale, please take advantage of it!

As for shotgun, JP can build a very nice one for you out of a Remington 1100 or 11-87. And no, they don't have rotary magazines or detachable mags. :cool:

http://www.jprifles.com/photos/JP1100OPENs.jpg

As for a pistol, a Glock or whatever you choose will work well. However, if you want to get all fancy with a STI, you may be out of luck with the new loaded chamber rule for new pistols on the approved list.

If your club shoots MOR (manually operated rifle) aka bolt action, they are still legal here. A good buy is the Remington 700P or the Savage Tactical packages. They come with everything you need to shoot except ammo!

If any of you other 3-gunners (TMC, Rokit88, etc.) have anything to add please chime in!

Jicko
02-09-2006, 4:03 PM
Is it still possible to shoot 3-guns with only 10 rounds in the rifle(AR)!?

And is starting with a PUMP shotgun a big disadvantage?

Sgt Raven
02-09-2006, 4:15 PM
Please check out this thread on the Brian Enos forum:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27246

As for a pistol, a Glock or whatever you choose will work well. However, if you want to get all fancy with a STI, you may be out of luck with the new loaded chamber rule for new pistols on the approved list.

If any of you other 3-gunners (TMC, Rokit88, etc.) have anything to add please chime in!

You can still buy a STI if you can find someone in Kali selling one and do a PPT. But you'll pay 25% more for a used one here than you would in the free states. :eek: :rolleyes:

Sgt Raven
02-09-2006, 4:16 PM
Is it still possible to shoot 3-guns with only 10 rounds in the rifle(AR)!?

And is starting with a PUMP shotgun a big disadvantage?

Someone well trained with a 870 can fire it as fast as a semi auto.

gose
02-09-2006, 4:31 PM
Is it still possible to shoot 3-guns with only 10 rounds in the rifle(AR)!?

And is starting with a PUMP shotgun a big disadvantage?

Yeah, sure, but its like entering a car race with a car with only three gears. You're kinda screwed before the race starts. Sure, you can still have a good time, but any chance of getting good scores, nope.

Why not have a CA "limited 10" or something in 3gun matches?

I've been shooting competitively too long so it kinda bugs me when I get a handicap because of my equipment. I want my shooting to be totally depending on me and my performance, not the equipment.

Sure, I might show up at an occasional 3gun match just for fun, but most of my time and money will probably be spent on something else where I at least know that I can get a good score if I practice more and not having to turn back time a few years to get the equipment I need...

Shoot-it
02-09-2006, 6:33 PM
as far as the shotguns is the rem the only gun people use . have a beretta and i rather use that.

sargenv
02-14-2006, 10:04 PM
I shoot a Browning Gold in Tactical. I have the extended mag tube and I can fit 8+1 in it just fine. I prefer the Gold since it has the speed feed feature that no other modern gun save the Auto-5 Browning has. If I go to bolt open in a Benelli, Remington, Win SX2, or other shotgun, I have to drop one in the side and activate the bolt close button. With the Gold, I shove a shell in the mag like I do if the action is closed and it feeds the shell into the chamber without any effort on my part. I shoot it until empty and then just reload as fast as I can, never needing to deal with closing the bolt manually.

I think a lot of people overlook it mostly due to not knowing about that feature or because they don't want to spend the money. Since I use my Gold as a hunting gun, it's money well spent because I can use it in the blind (albeit without the mag tube and plugged) and I keep the side saddle on it while hunting (sometimes I leave the blind without my jacket) so that I can keep training even while hunting :) I've occasionally gone dry (firing 3 shells at birds and missing) and the shell I pulled off the side saddle was the one that got me a bird.

Vince

TMC
02-15-2006, 6:30 PM
For your first few matches bring what you have and see if you like it.

Many of the Big Dogs are using the Browning like Vince, but the 1100/1187 is still competitive. Pump shotguns work fine. With shotguns its not the time spent pulling the trigger, the time killer is loading them on the clock so practice stuffing shells.

On the subject of pistols, most big matches (Superstition, Rocky Mountain, DPMS) don't have a power factor rule so any good 9mm gets the job done (its the Indian not the arrow thing). USPSA is the only big 3-gun match were they score major/minor. The STI/SV in 3-gun is a snob thing not a real necessity.

You do need a mag fed rifle, you can't safely reload one you have to break down.

I know a few local guys with Mini-14's done up by Accuracy Systems and they are as accurate as any AR, the only draw back is they are slightly slower at mag changes but with practice anything can be done fast (Indian-arrow again).

Go to a local match.

Please bring some action shooting experience, if you've never shot a 3-gun match I suggest you go to a local USPSA club, get some instruction and shoot a few pistol matches first.

Don't be intimidated by shots at ranges past 100 yards (they will be few if any)

Don't be intimidated by faster shooters, they have been doing it longer and most likely there will always be someone faster than you, but you will be faster than some.

Don't bring all of your "tactical gear" it doesn't work for a game.

Do bring a decent holster, mag pouches 2 each for your pistol and rifle mags and some way to carry extra shotgun ammo, bandolero, belt or dump bag.

Do bring what you have, if you need something most of us are willing to lend you what you need.

Do bring a good attitude and be ready to have fun, that's why we do it. Its a game.

rkt88edmo
02-15-2006, 7:30 PM
If any of you other 3-gunners (TMC, Rokit88, etc.) have anything to add please chime in!

All I have to add is to listen to Vince and TMC, follow me around if you need some laughs. :D

shooterx10
02-16-2006, 2:18 PM
TMC,

Are fast draws as important in 3-gun as in pistol only stages? Also, are there strong retention holsters (Safariland 012?) that can be used for a STI open gun? I heard that CR Speed's got good reviews.

So, by "tactical gear" do you mean Safariland 6004 holsters? I assume that hip mag pouches and the like can be construed as "tactical." However, I did see a guy with a loaded down tactical vest (with mags, no grenades, no comm radio, or anything like that) do a 3-gun match. He didn't have to reach far for his mags!

Question for everyone else: Has anyone used Walmart 100 pack #8 shot (it's the red box) in their semiautos with any problem?

LOW2000
02-16-2006, 3:20 PM
TMC,

Question for everyone else: Has anyone used Walmart 100 pack #8 shot (it's the red box) in their semiautos with any problem?

How much is that shotty ammo?

shooterx10
02-16-2006, 3:29 PM
It's around $15 at Walmart. I think they are made by Winchester. The Federal Premium value packs are priced around the same.

TMC
02-16-2006, 6:16 PM
What I meant by tactical was things like thigh holsters, mag pouches with covers, tactical vest with mag pouches, that sort of thing.

In Tactical and limited classes at all but the USPSA matches you need a "practical" holster, no race holsters, so most use a Blade-tech. USPSA allows race holsters in Limited 3-gun just like in Limited pistol.

For open class I use my Ghost holster, with has a nice lock that can be swept off at the draw so its fast and secure. I have see a few Blade-Tech holsters modified for open gun with single sided C-more mounts.

I have not seen a stage at a 3-gun match that really draw would get you much, most have you moving before shooting or your transitioning from a long gun to the pistol.

I use the cheap 2-3/4 dram #7.5 and #8 shot from whoever is selling it, Wallmart, Big-5 what ever. Your gun may need tuning to run reliabily, mine did, but they're a 100% now. Most matches don't allow anything larger than #4 and no buckshot. I have never had a problem taking down steel with the cheap stuff with an IC. For slugs I, like most, shoot the recuded recoil variety, just know your zero out to at least 50 yards.

Wulf
02-18-2006, 3:14 PM
Is it still possible to shoot 3-guns with only 10 rounds in the rifle(AR)!?

And is starting with a PUMP shotgun a big disadvantage?

No a pump shotgun is not Big disadvantage, I submit its not even a little disadvantage for a starting shooter.

Reloading the SG is the lions share of the game. A new shooter with improvised gear and no well thought out or practiced method is going spend 2 to 3 seconds per shell to reload. The slim fractions of seconds that a fast cycling auto has over a pump just get swallowed up by the reloading time. When the shooter picks a reloading method, then buys the gear to support that method (shell racks and side saddles are cheep compared to upgrading from an 870 to an auto), then practices his method, he can get his reload times down to the 1sec/shell range.

Spending big bucks on a practial shooting ready auto before you've put in the hard work to grind down your reload times is like stepping over dollars (maybe even 10 spots) to pick up pennies.

LOW2000
02-19-2006, 3:14 PM
It's around $15 at Walmart. I think they are made by Winchester. The Federal Premium value packs are priced around the same.

The local walmart no longer carries ammo :mad:

What had me extra pissed is that I could see some ammo behind the counter.:mad:

sargenv
03-23-2006, 7:28 PM
You all can pay more attention to TMC over me. I usually finish somewhere in the middle of the pack when all my gear runs, and TMC is usually somwhere in the top 5 locally. I've practiced with him and a few other people and you can't believe how fast they are when the equipment just plain works :)

I'm one of the people he mentions when talking about the Mini-14. In the case of that rifle, mags that work are the limiting factor once you get it worked on. A stock Mini is um.. inaccurate to say the least. We are talking dinner plates at 100 yards :D With my heavy barrel and action job, it'll do sub 1.5" all day at 100, probably better with good quality ammo.

If you have a Keltec, it can be made to shoot adequately at local distances to 200 yards or so. Much beyond that and I'm not sure how well they will do. I was beaten by a Kel-tec when my mini developed mag issues. It is still not really completely broken in.

Vince

gotgunz
03-23-2006, 7:55 PM
[QUOTE=gose]Yeah, sure, but its like entering a car race with a car with only three gears. QUOTE]


My race car has three gears and it's plenty fast (enough to make grown men cry).

LOL