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BigBamBoo
03-25-2010, 3:47 PM
............

Gio
03-25-2010, 3:52 PM
That is a legal way for you to claim you own a hi-cap. Now knowing that it holds 11 rounds and you putting it in your rifle makes it illegal if it is a mag locked non-featureless rifle. So if you plan on using them after knowing that they held 11 rounds makes them illegal to use. Simply owning or possessing a hi-cap mag is not illegal. using them in a non-featureless build is where it gets to be illegal. I am not a lawyer and or my info can be wrong, take care.

-Gio

Super Spy
03-25-2010, 3:56 PM
What if you have a 10 round mag, use it in a featureless rifle, and didn't know that it would hold 11 rounds as you are the law abiding type that just doesn't try and do something illegal....it says 10 rounds that's all you put in. What happens when your friend tries harder than you and manages to force in 11 rounds?

Gio
03-25-2010, 3:59 PM
That video also shows that it is not hard to put 11 rounds in there.

Also that is Vu 308 on here as well, I can tell by his avatar.

Hopefully someone can chime in on this matter.

-Gio

RideIcon
03-25-2010, 3:59 PM
its a no no in a locked mag gun, otherwise its fine to use.
Ordering the magazine with the knowledge that it can hold more than 11 rounds is probably on the illegal side of things, but to prove you had prior knowledge that it was a high-cap magazine sold as a 10 rounder would be impossible.

wildhawker
03-25-2010, 4:03 PM
This has been discussed a number of times before (search for .458 SOCOM); also, see the calgunsfoundation.org wiki entries on mags.

Purchase of 10rd mags is not illegal; possession of hicap mags is not illegal. Use of hicap mags in a maglocked firearm is illegal.

hnoppenberger
03-25-2010, 4:12 PM
spirit of the law, its only meant to take ten, and it looks that way.

inbox485
03-25-2010, 4:38 PM
By the letter of the law, if you buy a 10 round magazine, and it shows up and can contain more than 10 rounds you have legally acquired a high capacity magazine. It is legal to buy a high capacity magazine under 12020, and you can't get a conspiracy charge unless you know before hand that it is an illegal sale. The vendor however has violated the law.

BigBamBoo
03-25-2010, 4:58 PM
..............

inbox485
03-25-2010, 5:15 PM
I understand about possession of hi cap mags,etc.

BUT....these mags are NEW mfg. In fact they are less then a month old. So...what happens when a gun savvy DA,LEO,etc., comes across you and sees your nice new AICS "10" round mag but knows that they have been know to accept 11 rounds.
And he also knows that these are not pre ban mags...again...he is a shooter and knows they just started mfg. them.

So he loads 11 rounds into the mag...and then you are charged with importation of a hi cap mag.

I know, I know...but this is CA. and ANY frigg'in thing can and does happen in this state.

I am by no means bashing AICS mags. In fact now that they are available in .223 I am thinking of putting together a .223AI using these mags.

Anyways....


Take care,Stan

Like i said, if you knew they held more than 10 rounds and bought them, you could be charged with conspiracy (even this might require the vendor to have known he was breaking the law). It is not illegal to buy them if you thought you were buying legal magazines, and it is not legal to keep them and use them either. The vendor however is breaking the law and might get nailed for it.

For high capacity mags you break the law by manufacturing, selling, lending, giving, importing, or conspiring to have somebody do one of those things. You do not break the law by buying, finding, or otherwise receiving.

timdps
03-25-2010, 5:36 PM
Got some AK (advertised) 10 rounders from CTD that held 11 rounds.
Called them and they issued a call tag for pickup.

No way I would use/own a recently purchased 10 rounder that can hold more than 10 rounds. No upside and lots of possible downside.

Tim

inbox485
03-25-2010, 5:45 PM
Got some AK (advertised) 10 rounders from CTD that held 11 rounds.
Called them and they issued a call tag for pickup.

No way I would use/own a recently purchased 10 rounder that can hold more than 10 rounds. No upside and lots of possible downside.

Tim

You are missing a huge upside. You legally acquired high capacity magazines. You could have kept them or even converted them into 30 round mags. You would have documentation that you bought 10 round mags and violated no law. If some cop wanted to whine about it, you could refer them to CTD for their felony violation.

Gio
03-25-2010, 5:50 PM
You are missing a huge upside. You legally acquired high capacity magazines. You could have kept them or even converted them into 30 round mags. You would have documentation that you bought 10 round mags and violated no law. If some cop wanted to whine about it, you could refer them to CTD for their felony violation.


Yup :D AK's are easy to go featureless with too ;)

-Gio

bhaworth
03-25-2010, 6:05 PM
If you rely on "Spirit of the law" in California you will be screwed by it at some point.

A law doesn't have a spirit. This is why we can have OLLs, bullet buttons, etc., etc.

timdps
03-25-2010, 7:21 PM
I see it as importing high caps, whether I knew it or not. Not a game I want to play.

Tim

You are missing a huge upside. You legally acquired high capacity magazines. You could have kept them or even converted them into 30 round mags. You would have documentation that you bought 10 round mags and violated no law. If some cop wanted to whine about it, you could refer them to CTD for their felony violation.

inbox485
03-25-2010, 8:01 PM
Your not importing them. You are receiving them. The law was deliberately written to penalize the source of the magazines not the recipient or possessor.

RideIcon
03-25-2010, 8:06 PM
Your not importing them. You are receiving them. The law was deliberately written to penalize the source of the magazines not the recipient or possessor.

Unless, of course, they want to claim you were aware that they were 10+ round mags

inbox485
03-25-2010, 8:32 PM
Unless, of course, they want to claim you were aware that they were 10+ round mags

They can't just claim it. They have to prove it. Better yet, they had to have show they had reasonable articulatable suspicion that you got it illegally before a lawful detainment could even begin. Since there are lawful ways to have come into possession of the magazine, they would fail before they start.

RideIcon
03-25-2010, 8:50 PM
They can't just claim it. They have to prove it. Better yet, they had to have show they had reasonable articulatable suspicion that you got it illegally before a lawful detainment could even begin. Since there are lawful ways to have come into possession of the magazine, they would fail before they start.

they can claim whatever they want to claim, and when your talking about a felony charge of importation, its not something to be taken lightly... having a magazine shipped to your house with a receipt for the order in the package with a high capacity magazine is proof enough.

inbox485
03-25-2010, 8:59 PM
Not if the receipt says 10 round magazine. Makes your intent pretty clear. The only way a recipient can get charged is conspiracy.

oddjob
03-25-2010, 9:06 PM
I have Wilson 47T mags that hold 10 rds of .45 ACP. I asked DOJ folks (face to face enforcement agents) if I load .40 S&W in the mags I can get 11 rds. Am I violating the law? The answer was if I'm shooting 11rds of 40 functionally....yes.....If I'm shooting 10 rds of .45 acp then its no. I'm pretty certain if it was sold as a 10 rd mag and you pushed hard enough to get 11 rds its not gonna be a problem. Just don't stuff 11 rds in it. DOJ is not who one has to worry about. Its the local DA's Office.

timdps
03-25-2010, 9:09 PM
So you are saying someone out of state ship could you a bunch of 30 round mags with a receipt that says they are 10 round mags and you are good to go?

That would pretty much negate the high cap law, but I don't buy it and certainly would not want to risk my freedom on it.

Tim

oddjob
03-25-2010, 9:17 PM
A friend of mine got hi cap Glock mags just like TIMDPS mentioned. They were not stamped with "leo only" or anything. He just kept them. Illegal??....well yes....can it be proven in court??? nope......he kept them.

bomb_on_bus
03-25-2010, 9:32 PM
I would say the only reason is it can accept the 11th round is due to the extra room made for the spring to reduce spring deformation from extended usage and maybe extend the life of the magazine as well.

It was engineered to take 10 rounds and sold as so and unless someone loads an extra round this is CA friendly

RideIcon
03-25-2010, 10:55 PM
Not if the receipt says 10 round magazine. Makes your intent pretty clear. The only way a recipient can get charged is conspiracy.

receipt could show a charge for shipping too.. lol
I agreed that there was no way to be charged, but to make it sound okay is the wrong thing to do

RideIcon
03-25-2010, 10:58 PM
I asked DOJ folks (face to face enforcement agents) if I load .40 S&W in the mags I can get 11 rds. Am I violating the law? The answer was if I'm shooting 11rds of 40 functionally....yes.....If I'm shooting 10 rds of .45 acp then its no. .

they are telling fud again.

bottom line is possession isn't illegal, and acquiring it through some fluke that isn't illegal means you legally posses high cap magazines.
you put 11 rounds of 40 into a magazine marked for 45, thats fine too