PDA

View Full Version : AB 962 Restrictions On Out Of State Sales


glockfu
03-24-2010, 4:01 PM
A couple of other threads floating around sparked a question. With the way AB 962 is written, would it prohibit licensed ammunition vendors from selling and shipping ammunition out of state?

AndrewMendez
03-24-2010, 4:11 PM
It will be bashed in Federal Court, I don't think you need to worry about it.

paul0660
03-24-2010, 4:12 PM
Since they need a thumbprint, I would say yes.

Btw I don't think handgun vendors are licensed per se:

"vendor" means any person, firm, corporation, dealer, or any other business enterprise that is engaged in the retail sale of any handgun ammunition, or that holds itself out as engaged in the business of selling any handgun ammunition.

Exceptions to the reporting/fingerprint are:

* (1) A person licensed pursuant to Section 12071. (An FFL)
* (2) A handgun ammunition vendor.
* (3) A person who is on the centralized list maintained by the department pursuant to Section 12083.
* (4) A target facility which holds a business or regulatory license.
* (5) Gunsmiths.
* (6) Wholesalers.
* (7) Manufacturers or importers of firearms licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.



http://www.ab962.org/ReadAB962.aspx

wildhawker
03-24-2010, 10:11 PM
I haven't heard but does this cover components too? Powder, primers, etc. from out of state?

H&K

No.

CEDaytonaRydr
03-25-2010, 8:48 AM
I have a hypothetical question about this ammo ban:

What's to stop out of state vendors from shipping ammo to Californians, despite the ammo ban? This state barely has enough money to keep the schools open. They don't have the resources to enforce this law across state lines.

Even if they did, couldn't the sellers just tell them to go pound sand? After all, they're not CA residents and their business isn't located in CA. Could the state even do anything to them legally?

I'm a big fan of Henry David Thoreau and "Civil Disobedience" and I think this might be an occasion where a little bit of that is in order. I don't see the state being able to do much about it.

bomb_on_bus
03-25-2010, 8:57 AM
and just think about all the taxpayer money that went into account to have this bill put in place and all the money being spent to take it out............. Man CA sure knows how to run an effective state government. You could almost hear Nero playing in the background:nopity:

glockfu
03-25-2010, 9:58 AM
Wow... this is completely ridiculous! So they banned the sale of a legal product out of state. They are now saying hey Mr ammo seller, you are not allowed to sell your product out of state even though it is legal here and in the state you plan to sell it to??? That's insane! Is there ANY other product that they have banned like this?

What if a california ammo seller went out of state to sell their ammo, like a Nevada gunshow? Would he still have to collect all the additional bull**** including finger print? What rule does he follow then?

not-fishing
03-25-2010, 10:03 AM
Concerning AB 962 and internet sales.

"(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence."

I have a COE (Certificat of Exemption) and FFL#3 (Curio & Relic Collectors). I am a personal-ammunition-only reloader because I am not rich.

My understanding that Internet sales of "Ammunition" is banned.
Will reloading supplies, magazines, clips, speed loaders and pellet gun pellets also be banned from the internet and does it apply to FFL#3 or COE's?

What about primers and powder?

I'm waiting for the response. :sleeping:

I'll post it when I receive it.

a1c
03-25-2010, 10:04 AM
Wow... this is completely ridiculous! So they banned the sale of a legal product out of state. They are now saying hey Mr ammo seller, you are not allowed to sell your product out of state even though it is legal here and in the state you plan to sell it to??? That's insane! Is there ANY other product that they have banned like this?

Alcohol. Not quite in the same way, but many states - predictably, usually in the Bible Belt, where ironically gun laws are pretty lax - make it near impossible to export alcohol there unless you go through licensed distributors based in those states.

It's a major rip-off for small wineries and distilleries. Try sending wine to relatives in Kentucky.

gunn
03-25-2010, 10:19 AM
I have a hypothetical question about this ammo ban:

What's to stop out of state vendors from shipping ammo to Californians, despite the ammo ban? This state barely has enough money to keep the schools open. They don't have the resources to enforce this law across state lines.

Even if they did, couldn't the sellers just tell them to go pound sand? After all, they're not CA residents and their business isn't located in CA. Could the state even do anything to them legally?

I'm a big fan of Henry David Thoreau and "Civil Disobedience" and I think this might be an occasion where a little bit of that is in order. I don't see the state being able to do much about it.

Hahaha.
What's to stop your buddy from buying a bunch of RAWs and shipping them USPS to your house along with a pound of weed? Nothing. Is it a good idea? Nope.

Sure, try your civil disobedience thing if you want. Will they go after your buddy? Perhaps to make an example of him. Perhaps not. Would they go after a business that prides itself on ignoring CA laws. That is far more likely.

Most people on this website pride themselves on walking the fine line with the law. If you want to flat out ignore the law, why not just skip the whole AWB and run w/o MMGs or BBs w/ 30rd mags you bought yesterday?

-g

wildhawker
03-25-2010, 10:51 AM
Everyone willing to expend 5 minutes on theoretical byproducts of AB962 should commit that same time to volunteering with Calguns Foundation. I can assure you that would be 1000x infinitely more productive.

dfletcher
03-25-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm waiting for the response. :sleeping:

I'll post it when I receive it.

Well, if DOJ wanted to be helpful they would say "heck, you already have the COE - just get a C & R FFL and you're exempt.

CEDaytonaRydr
03-26-2010, 9:55 AM
Sure, try your civil disobedience thing if you want. Will they go after your buddy? Perhaps to make an example of him. Perhaps not. Would they go after a business that prides itself on ignoring CA laws. That is far more likely.

Most people on this website pride themselves on walking the fine line with the law. If you want to flat out ignore the law, why not just skip the whole AWB and run w/o MMGs or BBs w/ 30rd mags you bought yesterday?

-g

Well, the question I was really trying to have answered is what if a company like Midway, which is based in another state, decides to disobey the new CA law? They aren't a CA business and they are not CA residents. So what's to stop them from being "conscientious objectors" to this new CA law? I'm not sure anything could be done, besides the state filing a civil suit against them, to which Midway could counter-sue for all of the business that CA will be costing them...

DISCLAIMER: I'm not suggesting anyone do this, or advocating that it be done. I'm just asking the question... ;)